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Vsurma
21-06-2010, 15:59
What are your thoughts on the new magic system.

On its own I think it seems great, 2d6 Power Dice (PD) and higher of the 2 dice as Dispel dice (DD)

To me this looks like all armies will have some magic, you will likely be casting 2-4 spells a turn with 1-2 being dispelled.

Most magic phases will see a spell or two getting through.

Now, the first problem I see here is that while the caster will have 6 or more dice most of the time, the dispelling player likely will not.

Meaning if the opponent really wants a spell to go through, it most likely will as he will roll a lot of dice at it.

Now granted this does have a downside in the more powerful miscast table though talismans and arcane items can cut down the hurt here, that or just using cheap lv1-2 wizards to cast.

I like that dispel scrolls are 0-1 but it does make it tough to dispel these spells.

Secondly all the items that help with dispelling (like the scroll of frog or the one that does damage to enemy wizards) are all arcane, 1 per mage.

Getting more magic defence from the common magic items list is very expensive as each item requires an additional mage. Also there is no item that gives more DD.... I think we could really use one. (channeling staff doesn't count as it doesn't really do anything)

Ok, so it looks like the magic phase was designed to allow about 1-2 spells through each phase, allowing it to have an effect on the game each turn.
This is ok in my opinion with the smaller spells but if 1 of the spells that gets through is purple sun, mountain chimera etc I am not sure I would be so happy at having no chance to get rid of it.


Now if we look at the effect of the new system when taking into account the current army books things change considerably.

The main issue comes with PD and DD generation of specific armies.

Lizardmen have a slann with +1 PD per spell (so up to 7 extra dice per phase!)

VCs can get +2 per character so they can guarantee they are using 12PD each phase if they so choose!

Orks can add 3DD while removing 1 of your PD.

High elves add d3 dice with the banner of sorcery and have +1 to dispel.

DEs can add an additional d6 to each cast (or failed cast?) with their dagger of sacrifice or whatever its called.

I am sure there are a few I am not remembering but you get the point.
All armies are far from equal when it comes to their PD an DD generating abilities.

The ability of the armies to generate additional PD and DD was created with the previous edition in mind. I wonder how badly it will be a problem with the new mechanic.

Imagine a VC player that took 4 mages for a +8 PD, it will have 12 PD in almost all its magic phases, while the other player has d6 (so 3-4 on average) DD, the vamps can get away with a lot in the magic phase.

For this very reason I was disappointed that the common magic items section did not have items that help with generating more PD and DD. I like the mechanic overall, but I think the common magic items section would have been a great place to even out the magic dice each has at their disposal.

Orks for example will on average have more DD than the opponent has PD... unless you play one of the stronger magic armies (vamps, lizards etc.)

Thoughts?

Ultimate Life Form
21-06-2010, 16:08
The ability of the armies to generate additional PD and DD was created with the previous edition in mind.

No.

Lizardmen have a slann with +1 PD per spell (so up to 7 extra dice per phase!)

VCs can get +2 per character so they can guarantee they are using 12PD each phase if they so choose!

Orks can add 3DD while removing 1 of your PD.

High elves add d3 dice with the banner of sorcery and have +1 to dispel.

DEs can add an additional d6 to each cast (or failed cast?) with their dagger of sacrifice or whatever its called.


Yes. That was on purpose by the way. Why would a Slann not have stronger magic at his disposal than a puny Empire Wizard? It is all in the spirit of the game. The balancing happens via point cost which is probably why a Slann costs 5 times as much as a Skink Priest (and that is before equipment). Which also happens to hurt when he blows up. Or he could be stuck with 2 PD. I feel it is certainly too early to instigate a balance discussion as long as the book is not out yet. We need to play a few games first.

SilentCivilian
21-06-2010, 16:19
You use Vamps generating alot of dice as an example. No real change there. They are an army that relies heavily on the magic phase anyway so its only right they are strong there.

Its a bit like saying its inbalanced that Warriors of Chaos can lay the smack down in CC. Each army tends to be stong in different areas. The magic phase will work differntly yes, but the armies that relied on it and where strong there still will be.

As for getting spells off you will just have to be more selective with which spells you try to dispel. Again this has not changed any great amount from 7th. In conclusion i dont really see what the problem is.

The Magic phase is changing but then so is the rest of the game. Gw has hit the reset button with the rules again. Get used to it. I have played through every new version of the rules since 3rd. Learn to adapt or Ebay your armies. :D

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 16:25
No.


Yes. That was on purpose by the way. Why would a Slann not have stronger magic at his disposal than a puny Empire Wizard? It is all in the spirit of the game. The balancing happens via point cost which is probably why a Slann costs 5 times as much as a Skink Priest (and that is before equipment). Which also happens to hurt when he blows up. Or he could be stuck with 2 PD. I feel it is certainly too early to instigate a balance discussion as long as the book is not out yet. We need to play a few games first.

I don't see why we need to play games. We already KNOW that vampires can have 12PD to your 3-4DD, playing games won't change this.

Points cost is nice but in the case where your opponent has 12PD every phase! and you are capped at 6DD if you are really lucky, with no common magic items to balance this out and only some armies having the ability to gain DD through army specific ones the situation is clear.

Some armies can cope with this and others have to take the damage. Now vampires don't have the mega nuke spells and perhaps van hels is less important now and with 2 ranks attacking more models will die, perhaps this is all the balance that is needed... perhaps not.

The question was what people think.

Ultimate Life Form
21-06-2010, 16:32
We already KNOW that vampires can have 12PD to your 3-4DD, playing games won't change this.

Yes, but it is impossible for you to discern inhowfar thta would be imbalanced in the new environment. We don't play Warhammer on paper but with models.



Points cost is nice but in the case where your opponent has 12PD every phase!

Yes, but I can also roll the 12 and kick myself for taking Master of Black Arts on all my Vampires for a whopping 50 points each and see all those PD and the channeling go to waste.


The question was what people think.

And you got the answer: I think it's too early to say.

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 16:37
You use Vamps generating alot of dice as an example. No real change there. They are an army that relies heavily on the magic phase anyway so its only right they are strong there.

Its a bit like saying its imbalanced that Warriors of Chaos can lay the smack down in CC. Each army tends to be stong in different areas. The magic phase will work differently yes, but the armies that relied on it and where strong there still will be.

As for getting spells off you will just have to be more selective with which spells you try to dispel. Again this has not changed any great amount from 7th. In conclusion i dont really see what the problem is.

The Magic phase is changing but then so is the rest of the game. Gw has hit the reset button with the rules again. Get used to it. I have played through every new version of the rules since 3rd. Learn to adapt or Ebay your armies. :D

This is true but last edition of I wanted I could take 2,3 or even 4! mages with dispel scrolls (would have been lame but it was possible) to even the magical scale, this is no longer the case with 1 scroll dispel allowed, so while last edition some armies where magic heavy, more than others. Everyone had the choice of balancing this out.

With the new mechanic there is no choice. As a lizard player I have more options available than many others do so its not that my army is in trouble, I am just interested in peoples thoughts on the new mechanics use in conjunction with the old army books.

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 16:41
Yes, but it is impossible for you to discern inhowfar thta would be imbalanced in the new environment. We don't play Warhammer on paper but with models.



Yes, but I can also roll the 12 and kick myself for taking Master of Black Arts on all my Vampires for a whopping 50 points each and see all those PD and the channeling go to waste.



And you got the answer: I think it's too early to say.

I doubt it, if you happen to roll 12 you get the same 12 dice that you would with say a 6 roll with 3 vamps, no one is kicking themselves because they paid a measly 150pts extra for a guaranteed 12 dice a face (well almost) just because they could have got it for free in 1 phase.... or for free in all 6 phases 1 time in 1,323,234,469....

I do believe DEs have access to a fair few lores, Power familiars (you can take more than 1 right?) and that dagger, looks like one of the more powerful magic races.

Though it is true that the races that did well with magic before will continue to do so.

With the new system however you can cast a LOT more spells than many races could before. With the wizard lord adding +4 to the casting roll, once the opponent is out of dispel dice you might still be able to throw 3-4 spells at them. This is a lot of magic.

NecroNurgle
21-06-2010, 16:48
You use Vamps generating alot of dice as an example. No real change there. They are an army that relies heavily on the magic phase anyway so its only right they are strong there.


No, the really change is the loss on concentration. The casting values for the vampire's lores are so low that you could easily get by with one die per invocation. If you rolled a one or two, it didn't matter that much, you just picked up the next die and tried again. But now if you fail to hit the casting value or roll a total of 1 or 2 you lose concentration and can't attempt another spell.
This changes the vampire's magic phase tremendously, significantly weakening it.

Ultimate Life Form
21-06-2010, 16:48
I am just interested in peoples thoughts on the new mechanics use in conjunction with the old army books.

Here lies your problem. All the books you cite are in no way 'old' army books. It's not like the deus ex machina descended from the heavens two weeks ago and suddenly revealed the new rules to the designers. When they were written they did already know in which direction they would take the game, and if you read VC it will become obvious that it was never intended to work well under 7th. There are so many things in there that make you scratch your head until you read 8th Edition. Useless Necromancers anyone? These books are intended to work that way. The only 'old' offender is O&G, but they're so old and weak, let them have their DD. Is it balanced? No, because it's not intended to be balanced! Of course the Slann is more powerful than the Empire Wizard! Does it ruin the game as you predict? Too early to say.

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 16:54
No, the really change is the loss on concentration. The casting values for the vampire's lores are so low that you could easily get by with one die per invocation. If you rolled a one or two, it didn't matter that much, you just picked up the next die and tried again. But now if you fail to hit the casting value or roll a total of 1 or 2 you lose concentration and can't attempt another spell.
This changes the vampire's magic phase tremendously, significantly weakening it.

Well if having to take 1 extra vampire is a significant weakness then yea, otherwise no....

Say you take 3 vamps with the +2 dice, you can now fail 3 times before you have to stop casting. (after the 2nd fail you likely switch to using 2 dice)

With everyone getting +2 or +4 to the roll I might even say it got better!
You just have to take more than 1 caster (did they ever just take 1?)

Malorian
21-06-2010, 16:55
The new magic system isn't perfect but I like it a hell of a lot better than the last one.

SilentCivilian
21-06-2010, 17:02
Back in 4th we rolled 2 dice and then cards where dealt from a deck up to the number rolled on the 2 dice. If the number was odd then the players who turn it was got the extra card. There was no way of knowing if you would get power cards or dispel cards or one of the special effect cards (one of which was the equivalent of irresistable force). If your wizard was of a higher level you got +1 dispel rolls. Always a 4+ with a dispel card. And each wizard in your army could use 1 dispel attempt against each spell as long as you had enough dispel cards. And not to forget you could cast spells in your opponents turn too. Why the history lesson?

Magic was very overpowered back then. Since then we have had the power dice system brought in. You knew exactly how many dice you would have each turn. Dispel scrolls where plentiful and so you where lucky to get any spells off early on in a game.

Is the new system any more balanced than previous editions? Only time and the thousands of games being played around the world will tell. This discusson will make interesting reading in a couple of years when we have had a decent amount of 8th edition books released. We can see what effect magic has on various armies and how its written into their new books. I can see high elves getting some bolstered magic defence for one thing. Fits their fluff and they used to be better than everyone else at it.

It will likely be seen as broken as hell for some armies while others are seen as too weak. Its another phase of the game and we will learn new ticks and tips as 8th gets older. For now i will with hold judgment. Give it 12 months and we will see what the future holds.

Razhem
21-06-2010, 17:15
no.

Cow dookie.

Temakador
21-06-2010, 17:34
i feel sorry for orge players, the guy i normally play rolls one dice per spell and 3+ the spell gets off, if not never mind just carry on casting but now, if he tries this again and failes to roll a 3+ instant fail and no more casting for you lol ahhhh. same with high lvl wizard lords though they get +4 and they try to cast a simple 5+ they roll a 2 equaling 6 but the spell fails and no more casting for them, which is funny ( i play dwarfs) but to me it seems that it means people will lean towards using the big spells first so not to lose concentration before the real damage can be done

Finarflin
21-06-2010, 17:43
Is the dispel scroll one per army, or one per model?

Secondly, with the + level of the wizard to casting roll, does this mean that Dark Elf SS can cast power of darkness without rolling? (this may change due to an errata)

IMHO It seems to me that it is easier to cast spells and not be dispelled, but you may not want to. You may not want to risk a high points cost mage by casting lots. So although they may have an advantage (which is reasonable due to background etc.) it may be too risky.

This might balance things too much, as elite armies may not use all their dice, and armies with cheap casters can cast more.

WarhammerNoob4ever
21-06-2010, 17:53
everyone seems to have forgotten the biggest change to magic that balances out the VC magic phase... no more 1-dicing spells.....

on a 1 or 2 u auto-fail and cant cast in that phase....

so ya, they might get 12 PD but at best they are casting 6 spells or risking that their lvl 4 aint casting again 1/3 the time..... and i think 6 spells for an army built to cast isnt bad... plus if their lvl 4 throws a bunch of dice at a big spell BOOM FEEDBACK SCROLL!!! there is a few wounds on them....

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 17:55
i feel sorry for orge players, the guy i normally play rolls one dice per spell and 3+ the spell gets off, if not never mind just carry on casting but now, if he tries this again and failes to roll a 3+ instant fail and no more casting for you lol ahhhh. same with high lvl wizard lords though they get +4 and they try to cast a simple 5+ they roll a 2 equaling 6 but the spell fails and no more casting for them, which is funny ( i play dwarfs) but to me it seems that it means people will lean towards using the big spells first so not to lose concentration before the real damage can be done

Well we can either roll 2 dice per spell meaning you need to roll about a 10+ to dispel or we invest a further 65-85pts in a 2nd wizard.

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 17:59
Yea no more 1 dicing this is how the VC magic phase would go.

Vamp 1: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 1: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 1: 1 dice cast.....fail

Oh NOES and me with 9 more dice.... damn....
Vamp 2: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 2: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 2: 1 dice cast.....fail

Oh noes, and me with 6 more dice...damn

Vamp 3: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 3: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 3: 1 dice cast.....fail

Oh noes, and me with 3 more dice...damn
Vamp 4: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 4: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 4: 1 dice cast.....fail

Oh noees!!!! I cry
Only 8 successful spells this casting round. Whatever will I do.... damn this is really going to hurt my game.

If I get unlucky and fail more than average I switch to 2 dice casting.

Um yea... vamps are so sad.

As cool as it is that natural 1s and 2s fail, well.. all it really does is force the opponent to take another mage or 2. Vamps are especially NOT hurt by it since they want to take multiple mages anyway being one of the few races that can add to their PD pool by doing so.

pointyteeth
21-06-2010, 18:04
I haven't sat down with the new rulebook yet, but from the sounds of things I really like where magic is heading. Just reading the new lores, magic is much more supportive (and fun!).

As for imbalance, there may be some but it sounds a lot less than 7th (I will reserve final balance until I have a couple months of warring under my belt). Lets not forget that every army is supposed to be getting an erratta for the new edition which may bring magic phase affecting items and abilities in line.

Cheers

Edit: oh, and there may be only 1 dispel scroll per army, but there are multiple scrolls that work like dispel scrolls (bufo's hex scroll anyone :) )

WarhammerNoob4ever
21-06-2010, 18:06
Yea no more 1 dicing this is how the VC magic phase would go.

Vamp 1: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 1: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 1: 1 dice cast.....fail

Oh NOES and me with 9 more dice.... damn....
Vamp 2: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 2: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 2: 1 dice cast.....fail

Oh noes, and me with 6 more dice...damn

Vamp 3: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 3: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 3: 1 dice cast.....fail

Oh noes, and me with 3 more dice...damn
Vamp 4: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 4: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 4: 1 dice cast.....fail



or

Vamp 1: 1 dice cast.... fail....

11 dice 0 spells

Vamp 2: 1 dice cast..... fail...

10 dice 0 spells

Vamp 3: 1 dice cast.... fail

9 dice 0 spells

Vamp 4: 1 dice cast.... fail....

8 dice 0 spells and no mages left....

and if they r just one dicing with +3-4 to cast, then i can dispel on 1 dice with a +4-5

so ya, VC do get hurt big by this

pointyteeth
21-06-2010, 18:08
Yea no more 1 dicing this is how the VC magic phase would go.

Vamp 1: 1 dice cast.... success..
vamp 1: 1 dice cast.....success..
vamp 1: 1 dice cast.....fail



or the alternative

Vamp 1: 1 dice cast...fail

11 dice left

Vamp 2: 1 dice cast...fail

10 dice left

Vamp 3: 1 dice cast...fail

9 dice left, magic phase over

:D

Edit: Damn! Ninja'd!

Lord Inquisitor
21-06-2010, 18:11
Yeah that's a total bummer, wish there was another caster that we could take in the VC list that was cheaper and allowed you to take the same spells repeatedly ... oh, wait, Necromancers!

55 points a pop, I suspect that the odd Necromancer or three will definitely be worth taking - and if all else fails, you can charge the enemy and blow them up!

Gaargod
21-06-2010, 18:28
Charge n blowup plan is actually really rather inefficient. Everything from a 7+ does little damage or hurts your own magic phase!

Still necromancers are cheap enough that it wouldn't be a bad plan. Except that 'raise spam' won't work anymore due to everything getting more hitty, they won't give you the MotBA you need for the dice, and you no longer can spam van hel's to get things moving (due to only one wizard).

Furthermore, if the opponent does take vampires with MotBA, that means they're only lv1 - so only +1 to cast, no forbidden lore, no avatar of death, etc.

Vampires are majorly nerfed by the new rules. Worry more about magic heavy lizardmen than any other magic heavy army.

VonUber
21-06-2010, 18:35
I like the new magic system. All you need to controll is it 1 level 4. Maybe a level 2 to back it up. So having good magic is cheap. But if someone doesnt it kind of makes it unfair.
What i dont like is that it doesnt scale up.
7th eds was better, yes it was abusable but it just needed tweeking.

Melon-neko
21-06-2010, 18:36
So, some things.
At the beginning of the magic phase, you roll your 2d6 and generate power and dispel dice. Then you roll a d6 for each of your wizards. On a 6 you gain a power or dispel dice respectively. So you can have more than 6 dispel dice.

If you want no chance to lose concentration, you have to use 3 power dice. If you want to not be dispelled, you can use up to 6 and the likelihood of irresistible force is quite high, which also is a miscast.

As for vampires, they can still do the summoning spam, but they risk failure if they don't use 2 dice. The other thing is, their little units will be taking even more casualties than before with the additional ranks of shooting, close combat and more damaging spells, so I think the invocation may actually have balanced out with the new rules.

Anyway, I really like the new magic and the new lore spells are crazy good. They have moved fantasy in much the same way 40k has gone, which some people will like and some dislike. I personally like it.

Grupax
21-06-2010, 18:40
if vc wants to invo-spam in a 2k list... just take 9 naked necromancers for 495 points
---9 times casting (oh and a lvl1 adds +1 to the dice roll :p)
(- unless there's a rule of three -)
and a lord :p

all necromancers can even run freely, by the time they're all shot you might be past turn 6
-edit- and if they're in combat, try to blow em up by using 6 dice and hope for a 1to6 on the miscast -

Razhem
21-06-2010, 18:41
or

Vamp 1: 1 dice cast.... fail....

11 dice 0 spells

Vamp 2: 1 dice cast..... fail...

10 dice 0 spells

Vamp 3: 1 dice cast.... fail

9 dice 0 spells

Vamp 4: 1 dice cast.... fail....

8 dice 0 spells and no mages left....

and if they r just one dicing with +3-4 to cast, then i can dispel on 1 dice with a +4-5

so ya, VC do get hurt big by this

That only shows that your imaginare vampire player is an idiot. If you are to your last wizard, just start casting it with 2 dice and be done with it or cast higher level invocations so it gets more bang out of it.

Pete_x
21-06-2010, 18:49
Vamp 1 : 1 dice cast... fail...

Vamp 2 : 1 dice cast... fail...

Vamp 3 : 2 dice cast... Sucess...

FROG!!!!!

:evilgrin:

yup that went well

WarhammerNoob4ever
21-06-2010, 18:59
That only shows that your imaginare vampire player is an idiot. If you are to your last wizard, just start casting it with 2 dice and be done with it or cast higher level invocations so it gets more bang out of it.

ok, give me a little credit i never said anyone would actually do that...... im just sayin... u cant 1-dice spam like u could anymore.... plz dont take my example as literal.....

use this as an example:
if u have 3 wizards tryin to 1-dice, on average, 1 of them should fail every turn on their first cast....

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 19:02
or

Vamp 1: 1 dice cast.... fail....

11 dice 0 spells

Vamp 2: 1 dice cast..... fail...

10 dice 0 spells

Vamp 3: 1 dice cast.... fail

9 dice 0 spells

Vamp 4: 1 dice cast.... fail....

8 dice 0 spells and no mages left....

and if they r just one dicing with +3-4 to cast, then i can dispel on 1 dice with a +4-5

so ya, VC do get hurt big by this

Um ok but unless you win at lotto every time you play, your example is not realistic.

My example is what happens on average, (say 8/10 times) all you have to do is switch to 2 dice once you start running out of wizards.

What you described is what happens 1/81 times.... so while that is likely to happen about once every 14 games, what I described will happen in most magic phases.

What is your point exactly? Vamps are hurt because 1/80 something bad happens? If that is it then....ah ok....? I am more interested in the 80/81 times than the 1 time things go horribly wrong.

You might 1 dice dispel, or you might be tempted to not do so when the roll you have to beat is 7-11, even with a 4+ you might not want to 1 dice it.

Even if you do 1 dice for a 50% chance of success, your 1d6 dispel dice run out far faster than the vamps PD.

It is hard to dispel 8 successful spells with 1d6 dispel dice.

Vamps are of course the extreme example here since they can easily get 12PD. I suppose DE can do it too but sacrificing a warrior for each spell will see the DE lord kill about 30 models through the duration of the game (not that there is anything wrong with that :)

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 19:16
I like the new magic system. All you need to controll is it 1 level 4. Maybe a level 2 to back it up. So having good magic is cheap. But if someone doesnt it kind of makes it unfair.
What i dont like is that it doesnt scale up.
7th eds was better, yes it was abusable but it just needed tweeking.

Yea, it seems like the mechanic was built for everyone to take a lv4 and a lv2 as backup. Nothing forces people to do so but whenever you don't your opponent will be very happy indeed.

I like magic so I don't see any problem with it. The fact that magic doesn't scale up is a tad funny but then I have been playing for years and have played about 3 games over 2250pts.

I reckon you can come up with own mechanic for larger games.

I reckon at 3k+

Caster gets 3d6 PD and defender gets highest and lowest of said 3d6.
Off the top of my head I reckon the caster would get about 10-11 PD on average with the defender having about 7...

Hmm... well I don't know if that is good really, it gives about +4 PD to the caster same as at 2k under the actual mechanic. Kinda pointless now that I think about it. Giving the defender the highest of 2d6 would be worse though since you would end up with about 1 more PD than DD most of the time...

It is hard to come up with something good that works in a similar way.

I was hoping that channeling would work so that each magic level of the mage would give them a dice to roll for channeling. Even then you wouldn't channel more than 2 dice a turn which isn't much.

As it is your lucky if you channel 1 dice per phase, which almost seems irrelevant with all the free dice most armies can generate if they want to.

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 19:21
So, some things.
At the beginning of the magic phase, you roll your 2d6 and generate power and dispel dice. Then you roll a d6 for each of your wizards. On a 6 you gain a power or dispel dice respectively. So you can have more than 6 dispel dice.

If you want no chance to lose concentration, you have to use 3 power dice. If you want to not be dispelled, you can use up to 6 and the likelihood of irresistible force is quite high, which also is a miscast.

As for vampires, they can still do the summoning spam, but they risk failure if they don't use 2 dice. The other thing is, their little units will be taking even more casualties than before with the additional ranks of shooting, close combat and more damaging spells, so I think the invocation may actually have balanced out with the new rules.

Anyway, I really like the new magic and the new lore spells are crazy good. They have moved fantasy in much the same way 40k has gone, which some people will like and some dislike. I personally like it.

Yea its true, vamps might need the extra Resurrection with the new rules. Then again, they might not, I had a game with vamps at a tournament a few days ago, I was killing a fair few with lizard spearmen (which are equal in power to what they will be next edition) and the opponent was easily able to resurrect anything I killed and he was on 7PD due to tourny comp restrictions.

If they start being able to cast 7-8 successful raise dead spells I might struggle. (or Purple sun might just kill his army....who knows)

Vsurma
21-06-2010, 19:25
ok, give me a little credit i never said anyone would actually do that...... im just sayin... u cant 1-dice spam like u could anymore.... plz dont take my example as literal.....

use this as an example:
if u have 3 wizards tryin to 1-dice, on average, 1 of them should fail every turn on their first cast....

You can't count averages in a vacuum. Just because 1 might fail on the first attempt doesn't stop another one from getting a success 4-5 times.

Overall you really won't have problems 1 dice casting and if you are unlucky you go to 2 dice. Ultimately how many times they can cast is irrelevant.

What matters is how many times you can cast successfully without it being dispelled. This number will go up thus making their magic better.

The raised troops however will die a lot more, which might just make vamps life harder. Still, getting more successful invocations of nahek on your bloodknights is going to hurt your opponent any way you look at it.

What they do with their magic phase might change, as everything else with the new rules will likely change.

How can I merge these posts? copy past my messages or is there a better way?