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Pylar
22-06-2010, 16:17
So I've been considering my next modeling project and I've pretty much decided I want to take on the challenge of scratch building a Titan. I'd like to have something I'd could potentially field with my Imperial Fist Marines in Apocolypse or large point 40k games.

So here are my questions:

What Titan can I field with a Marine chapter?
Which weapons would be the best to add to the model?
What book would I get this information from?
What size/type of game would I be able to use this?

I am leaning toward the Wolfhound Titan. I like the look of the model, and it's the smallest of the Titans so I would have a lower material cost. But it appears that those are mostly used in Chaos Marine armies. I know I don't want to do an Imperitor class Heavy Titan, because I think the castle spires on the back look ridiculous.

Iracundus
22-06-2010, 16:33
So I've been considering my next modeling project and I've pretty much decided I want to take on the challenge of scratch building a Titan. I'd like to have something I'd could potentially field with my Imperial Fist Marines in Apocolypse or large point 40k games.

So here are my questions:

What Titan can I field with a Marine chapter?


Speaking from the background point of view, none. Titans are the war machines of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Though they may serve alongside Marines in a theater of war, they are under their own command structure and are separate from the Marines, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. The Imperium is compartmentalized to avoid another Heresy, with limitations on how much power each institution may wield. The Marines are for example also limited in being technically barred from having sufficient fleet assets to directly challenge the dominion of the Imperial Navy.

Aside from the political reasons, a Titan also does not fit with the Marines' way of war. Titans require specialized transports and have logistical requirements that would not mesh with the rapid strke force modes of war favored by Marines. Just as Marine chapters are not meant to fight wars of attritin and therefore don't have huge artillery companies or superheavy companies, they don't have Titans.

Godzooky
22-06-2010, 16:33
So I've been considering my next modeling project and I've pretty much decided I want to take on the challenge of scratch building a Titan. I'd like to have something I'd could potentially field with my Imperial Fist Marines in Apocolypse or large point 40k games.

So here are my questions:

What Titan can I field with a Marine chapter?
Which weapons would be the best to add to the model?
What book would I get this information from?
What size/type of game would I be able to use this?

I am leaning toward the Wolfhound Titan. I like the look of the model, and it's the smallest of the Titans so I would have a lower material cost. But it appears that those are mostly used in Chaos Marine armies. I know I don't want to do an Imperitor class Heavy Titan, because I think the castle spires on the back look ridiculous.

Hi,

You could legitimately field any Imperial titan alongside marines.

Warhounds aren't fielded more by Chaos. In fact I'd guess they'd have access to far less machines than the Imperium.

Just an idea, but why not start off with something a touch smaller and less touched upon? I'm thinking a knight titan, for example. It could stand two to three times the height of a dreadnought. You could even "biped" up a defiler kit as the basis for such a conversion.

Just my tuppence. Do a plog, please. :)

Pylar
22-06-2010, 16:38
I've been a modeler for years and have done several Rhinos and other 40k tanks, so the point of this is to do a large project like a Titan. And I really want to see a Titan in Imperial Fist yellow and black.

Godzooky
22-06-2010, 16:41
I've been a modeler for years and have done several Rhinos and other 40k tanks, so the point of this is to do a large project like a Titan. And I really want to see a Titan in Imperial Fist yellow and black.

Whilst already established that marines don't have their own titans, there's absolutely nothing stopping you from allying your titan with them. Plus, you can just create a titan legion that uses a heraldry remarkably similar to that of the Fists. Do it. :)

Murrithius
22-06-2010, 16:45
Yellow and black you say?

Isn't there a Titan Legion named the Fire Wasps Legion or something like that?

AFnord
22-06-2010, 16:50
Or the titan might temporarily be under the command of your space marines, and for that reason it was re-painted.

*edit*
Legio Ignatum (fire wasps) is one of the three titan legions of mars. Their colours don't really match imperial fists colours though.
http://www.ninjabread.co.uk/epic/legio-ignatum.jpg
http://www.coolminiornot.com/40209

Murrithius
22-06-2010, 17:15
Ah, fair point.

Kervin
22-06-2010, 19:31
Personally I could see having a something as lager as a Reaver Titan under the command of an Imperial Fist or non BT successor chapter. The Fist were know for siege warfare and they would know how and where to use them. And mind you the only thing that is the issue of titan in a marine army is the fact that they do need specialized equipment to maintain, transport and land, but other then that they are as fast as a land raider in open off road areas and twice as fast as a dread. The one thing that people forget about siege warfare is that preparation is just as important as the fight it self. If you need to wait a few days to a week for it to come from a nearby system why not bring that power to bear.

Personally I would go with a warhound as they can be used in both offensive and defensive sieges.

Wishing
22-06-2010, 21:39
Yeah, painting a titan in marine colours (as though part of a chapter) would be about the same as painting a battle sister immolator in marine colours - they are all part of the imperium, but titans are no more part of the marines than immolators are. (The chief difference of course being that titans are often sent off as individual machines to assist marines or battle sisters or whatnot, which immolators aren't.)

That said, the background is yours to do with as you will so if you want to paint an imperial fist titan (or immolator), nobody's going to stop you. :)

Dakkagor
22-06-2010, 21:45
Personally I could see having a something as lager as a Reaver Titan under the command of an Imperial Fist or non BT successor chapter. The Fist were know for siege warfare and they would know how and where to use them. And mind you the only thing that is the issue of titan in a marine army is the fact that they do need specialized equipment to maintain, transport and land, but other then that they are as fast as a land raider in open off road areas and twice as fast as a dread. The one thing that people forget about siege warfare is that preparation is just as important as the fight it self. If you need to wait a few days to a week for it to come from a nearby system why not bring that power to bear.

Personally I would go with a warhound as they can be used in both offensive and defensive sieges.

Imperial Space marines do not get access to Titans.

Ever.

Fullstop.

Nien.

Nicht.

Verboten.

(also, a giant bee titan? Surely it would be the laughing stock of all its titan friends?)

A better way of showing that the titan and marines are allied is to come up with a linking army badge to show they are part of the same fighting force, possibly working together in a crusade. Repeat on both the Ipmerial fists and the Titan and viola, an allied titan.

Absolutionis
22-06-2010, 22:00
Make up enough fluff and you can justify anything.

Imperial Fists are supposed to defend Terra and its nearby planets. It would make sense if Mars sent over a Techmarine-commanded Warhound to help defend Terra.

Hal'jin
22-06-2010, 22:08
Make up enough fluff and you can justify anything.

Imperial Fists are supposed to defend Terra and its nearby planets. It would make sense if Mars sent over a Techmarine-commanded Warhound to help defend Terra.


Point is, a titan fighting alongside Marines is fine by all (fluff) means. One painted in some chapter's colors is not however.

Garven Dreis
22-06-2010, 23:17
Nothing stops you from inventing your own Titan Legion, and fielding it alongside your marines. Nothing stops the colour scheme from being SIMILAR. However, the only Space Marines of any persuasion which would get THEORETICAL control and perhaps Titans painted in their colours are Iron Warriors. Once again, Iron Warriors triumph over their loyalist counterparts.

Vaktathi
22-06-2010, 23:28
Space Marines would not have Titans of their own or under their colors. Titan Legions are as proud and independent of other Imperial forces as the Space Marines are, being under the command of the Mechanicus.

Even for Chaos titans they retain their EDIT: *Titan* Legion affiliations, with the possible exception of the Iron Warriors, which may or may not be the sole instance of SM's having Titans of their own, but even this is hazy.

Now, you could attach a small badge to a titan or additional banner that would proclaim them as fighting alonside a Space Marine chapter for a particular engagement or campaign, that would work great.

Garven Dreis
22-06-2010, 23:35
Even for Chaos titans they retain their Legion affiliations, with the possible exception of the Iron Warriors, which may or may not be the sole instance of SM's having Titans of their own, but even this is hazy.


This so hard. It's only speculated that the Iron Warriors have titans under their control, and knowing Imperial intelligence on the matter of the Traitor Legions, it would not surprise me to find this to be untrue.

It would definitely be okay for a Titan to be 'seconded' and 'attached' to assist a loyalist SM chapter for a campaign.

Kervin
22-06-2010, 23:39
Ok you all make good points on why SM chapter would not have a titan of there own, but you make no points that would stop a Chapter Master from asking a legion for extend assistance in a given part of space at a given time. And with how sieges are planed it is possible, is it not?

Personally I am planing on getting a Forge World titan (or more) of my own someday I would not have them painted in the colors of my chapter but I would have them fight along side them, and I see nothing wrong with it as long as they are used in the right games at the right times (fluff wise, if it is random game with no background to it hell yeah if I have the points).

Vaktathi
22-06-2010, 23:46
Titan Legions may fight alongside SM's for a long period of time, but they still wouldn't adopt the chapters color scheme or be directly commanded by Space Marines except by whomever is directly commanding the overall campaign (in which case, the Titans would probably fall under the loose command of the Imperial Guard's Warmaster/Lord Solar/Lord Commander Militant in all likelyhood, especially since any large campaign will be carried primarily by the Imperial Guard), any more than Space Marines would be commanded by AdMech Princeps and Magos and wear Titan Legion colors.

Garven Dreis
22-06-2010, 23:47
Ok you all make good points on why SM chapter would not have a titan of there own, but you make no points that would stop a Chapter Master from asking a legion for extend assistance in a given part of space at a given time. And with how sieges are planed it is possible, is it not?

Well, I've said that it's possible for loyalists to get Titan support, however, it would be rare for Space Marines to get titan support due to a) the logistics of deploying a Titan Legion and b) Limited numbers of Astartes deployed by the Chapter. In crusade terms, especially the larger crusades, the combined Imperial Forces would get a Titan Legion as part of their army, but ONE chapter to get a Titan Legion, that would be a bit rarer.

Off the top of my head, the Damocles Gulf Crusade is a good example, where the Crusade was called for, and Imperial Guard, Astartes and Titan Legions were involved. You could represent a smaller part of such a crusade by having the Astartes backing up the Titan.

Zurken
22-06-2010, 23:48
Paint it how ever you whant, it's your model after all. Don't let a gaming company tell you how you can and cannot piant your models.

Even if it contradicts the written fluff you can allways just think around and make up your own fluff for it (though, I can understand that some other ppl will have some problems with that).

Don't take the game and fluff to seriously.

Garven Dreis
22-06-2010, 23:52
Paint it how ever you whant, it's your model after all. Don't let a gaming company tell you how you can and cannot piant your models.

Even if it contradicts the written fluff you can allways just think around and make up your own fluff for it (though, I can understand that some other ppl will have some problems with that).

Don't take the game and fluff to seriously.

And at the end of the day, this.

However, since you are really only playing apocalypse games, and all the apocalypse games I play are story driven, you'll probably need some fluff behind it.

Wishing
23-06-2010, 00:02
Having marines in chapter colours fighting alongside a titan in its own legion colours makes perfect sense to me - that tended to be a totally standard army configuration in epic if memory serves me right. Infantry = marines, big guy = titan. The only issue to my mind is of colour scheme and affiliation.

Dwane Diblie
23-06-2010, 00:19
Um if you can find the old Epic 40,000 armies rule book there was a Space marine only Titan in that. I do not know what it is called or its bachground, but it is there and could be worth a look.

Lord Lorne Walkier
23-06-2010, 00:39
I agree with most here that a story would help you out much. I would not paint the Titan in IF colors. Maybe have one of the base colors for look, like yellow. I would arm it with a Plasma blast gun, and a Turbo blast gun. If i had a Wolfhound titan with my astartes it would be to deal with other enemy titans. Some ideas that might help out your fluff problem. Maybe add a =][= lord to ally with to give your more leverage with the AM Make sure to have a Tech-marine with the force to translate for the big guy. Maybe your force is tasked with the defense of a AM forge World.

Hellebore
23-06-2010, 03:19
Repainting a titan in a marine chapter's colours would be like repainting an allied space marine force in your own colours. Would the space wolves repaint their armour to blood angels red because they're fighting alonside them for a few years?

You can make up anything to do anything if you want. I will use a bloodthirster's rules as a counts as primaris psyker using biomancy.

I will use an eldar army containing 10 keepers of secrets all 'captured' by the farseers to fight for them.

You can make up anything you want to support whatever you are doing. For me I find the limitations on something as defining as their advantages. Orks don't get lascannons, but you can put lascannons in their armies. But that dilutes the concept of Orks.

If you want you can effectively give a faction everything that's best from every other faction, or setting that exists. But then it just looks like you're trying to make them the bestest eva.

So there is nothing stopping anyone doing anything. Whether others like it is irrelevant for your happiness. But I personally wouldn't do it and I wouldn't find it particularly inventive or clever to do so. No more than arming an eldar farseer with a tau railgun just because.

I think painting one of the shin pads of a warhound in Imperial Fist colours with livery and chapter badge etc would be sufficient to show the close ties that particular titan legion has with them.

Just as the Deathwatch marines refuse to repaint their ENTIRE armour black lest they offend its machine spirit, a Princeps wouldn't repaint his titan in another's livery.

Hellebore

Pylar
23-06-2010, 14:34
Thanks for all the input.

I agree that a Titan Princept would not adopt a chapters colors just because they were deployed with them. But I do like Hellebore's option of just painting a shin guard in IF colors to give the Titan some coherancy with the rest of the IF: Marine company. (Yes I have enough marines and supporting vehicles to field the entire company) And I can do alot with a black/yellow/orange/red color palette to make the Titan match with out it following the IF color sceme.

As far as fluff to justify such a match. I'm sure somewhere in the depths of the Phalanx there could be a hanger where a Titan has been tucked away for a rainy day, with a crew that has been placed on extended deployment with the Fists. Such a crew could be added to an expedition force. And certianly a IF Chapter Master would see the benefit of having such a unit at their disposal. Also it's not the first time the Fists have had other divisions of the military on extend deployment to the Phalanx. There are already several destroyers and a battleship at their disposal.

Now since you guys have done an admirable job with discussing the fluff. What about my other questions? Would the Apocolypse rules cover fielding a Titan with a Marine force? Or would I look in one the Imperial Armor books for such rules. Where would I look for any associated costs for such a unit? I know you can't print unit costs here, but I'm sure there is nothing wrong with being directed to a specific book. Or would I just have to make up something to justify playing such a model?

Wishing
23-06-2010, 14:37
My impression is that the most basic Apocalypse book should have the rules you need to field a titan in your games, whether you field it next to marines or some other imperium faction. :)

Hellebore
24-06-2010, 02:09
With Apocalypse allying amongst forces is pretty simple. You just take the models in the force.

As the game is so dependent on player cooperation in the first place you'd find out pretty quickly if your opponents didn't want to face a titan - generally if they themselves don't have any superheavy equivalents.

The warhound titan's rules are in the core apocalypse book, whilst the Reaver's were released in one of FW's books.

Good gaming.

Hellebore

Xyrex
24-06-2010, 02:20
Aren't chapter masters supposed to be in charge of campaigns, and not guardsmen? I suggest you don't paint it as your chapter, but instead ally a small army of imperial techpriests with the same color scheme as the titan.

DuskRaider
24-06-2010, 02:25
I believe there is a Titan Legion that is clad in yellow. Not sure if they're Loyalist or Traitor, may want to look that up. But I have seen it.

Edit: Never mind, they're Traitors. Flaming Skulls Titan Legion.... I could swear I've seen a Loyalist Titan Legion that's canary clad.