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wazatdingder
24-06-2010, 01:46
Aside from taking away allies (which is great IMO, ally all you want in friendly games, keep it out of competition) GW once again shows how much they care by taking the time to do ANYTHING else.

It would be difficult to say... update the overpriced transports.

Way to go guys, now I don't feel so bad investing in War Machine the last couple weeks.

Lord Malorne
24-06-2010, 01:49
And your point is?

Xyrex
24-06-2010, 01:52
what? can you please reword that?

boreas
24-06-2010, 01:55
And your point is?

That the people in charge of putting the DH/WH PDFs are ****** who could bother to edit out allies but not bother to put the Rhino at the same price/rules as the sm codex's. Same for the DH assault cannon and Storm Shield. Same for the Psychic hoods and Force Weapons...

Idiots...

Phil

wazatdingder
24-06-2010, 01:59
Sorry, I expected a little more out of the =I= PDF.

It would not have been too hard for GW to make a few updates to the books. Some of the outdated issues are things like:

1. over-costed transports
2. Allowing deamons to recycle
3. a few units that may be too high for current rules
4. Wargear that is flat out useless.

A few of these things could be quick and easy fixes, It may even help boost sells of these armies if they tweeked them a bit.

Is that more clearly stated.

Evol Intent
24-06-2010, 02:07
They could fix a lot of problems with simple PDFs; they just.. don't. I can't grasp why, but it's not in their nature for some reason.

If something is "OP" they'll FAQ or PDF it so fast your head spins, but if you're looking for an update, goooood luck.

Blink
24-06-2010, 02:40
This is the first time I've had a good look at the WH Codex... and I REALLY want to play it now. It looks crazy fun.

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 02:51
If they had wanted to update the codex they'd have told the design team to write a new one. They didn't. All they wanted to do was somehow let their customers still acquire the rules for the Inquisition models without doing another print run of the books, as, for whatever reason, that wasn't deemed cost effective.
(OK, I admit, that's just my guess, but it's a reasonable one).

They told their web team to turn the codex into some sort of light version of the book so it can be downloaded. Meanwhile, their design team is busy working on whatever the next book in line is. Ie the designers had no hand in making this happen, because they were busy. If they hadn't been busy with something else, they'd be busy with the next =I= codex which would not have been released for free: Ie we'd still not have a 'new' pdf.

As for why they left the allies out? Not sure, there's two likely answers at this point:
1) It was an editing error, the kind you could get when you get non codex designers to reformat a codex; unfortunate but not unthinkable. Give it a week before crying havoc, as it took them that long before fixing the FC+CA nonsense back then. If they stick with it, we have to assume it was intentional (see below) otherwise feel free to mildly(!) berate them :p
2) They chose to remove the allies in order to stop these codices from causing trouble when being combined with newer books that offer stuff that was never meant to be in an Inquisition army. Rather than point to outdated books, they just dropped the allies. Sad, but somehwat understandable given the grey knight termies scout charging in valkyries and mystics directing Executioner squadron fire instances that have cropped up.

And on the rebalancing 'just a few things':
There is a whole lot of stuff that'd need to be rebalanced. Rhino cost goes down. That means plasma drive by becomes great! So plasma needs to go up like in the current books. But that still leaves 5 STs with 2 specials in a troops slot, which no other codex can do any more. Should that be changed to only allow the second special on the 10th model? And should we move to a compulsory veteran sergeant model like all other imperial codices have done? These are questions that a codex designer needs to think about for a bit. And those are all busy with other books. Sure, anyone could make the call, but anyone can write a fandex as well. GW doesn't publish those on their website either.

A lot more thought goes into rewriting a codex than 'let's make the points the same as for everyone else's similar things but keep all other differences'.

Am I annoyed after finally having finished my Seraphim with Angel wings which I now can't use as they were never meant to be more than an allied unit? Sure. Dissappointed in what they did with the pdf? Not really, nothing more was to be expected.

Wolf Lord Balrog
24-06-2010, 03:09
And on the rebalancing 'just a few things':
There is a whole lot of stuff that'd need to be rebalanced. Rhino cost goes down. That means plasma drive by becomes great! So plasma needs to go up like in the current books. But that still leaves 5 STs with 2 specials in a troops slot, which no other codex can do any more. Should that be changed to only allow the second special on the 10th model? And should we move to a compulsory veteran sergeant model like all other imperial codices have done? These are questions that a codex designer needs to think about for a bit. And those are all busy with other books. Sure, anyone could make the call, but anyone can write a fandex as well. GW doesn't publish those on their website either.


See, I don't buy this argument that it 'too hard' for them to do quickly. I sat down and over the course of 4 days in my spare time, completely revised Codex: Tau Empire. Using 60 pages of input from the wishlisting thread on this site, and taking into account interactions among elements, I completely revised the whole thing. I imagine a professional games designer, working full-time, could have done it in less than half the time, or the same amount of time at absolute worst. So why does it take them a decade to do it again?

Maskedman5oh4
24-06-2010, 03:51
I have put together a DH force of 20 Inq Stormtroopers (SM scout and Cadian kit-bashes), Inq + retinue (many necromunda models). 5 GK Termies. I have spent substantial amounts of time and money assembling this force in anticipation of the new book and I find it very foreboding... :(

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 04:24
See, I don't buy this argument that it 'too hard' for them to do quickly. I sat down and over the course of 4 days in my spare time, completely revised Codex: Tau Empire. Using 60 pages of input from the wishlisting thread on this site, and taking into account interactions among elements, I completely revised the whole thing. I imagine a professional games designer, working full-time, could have done it in less than half the time, or the same amount of time at absolute worst. So why does it take them a decade to do it again?

Did you playtest them? Did you have to do any other projects in that very time? Did you count the time others spent posting in your wishlist thread? Did you revise it until it was approved by the GW PR department for release?

GW don't want wishlist entry. They want all rules to come from their rules development team. That increases the workload a fair bit. Their developers also have full schedules, filled with other things they need to do. And then, once they are done, everything needs to be good enough for GW as a whole to be happy to put it's stamp of approval on it.

That will take a week maybe 2 of work and that's not an investment a company will want to make for a product they intend to give away for free, especially if, as rumours claim, the next proper redo is already on the schedule horizon.

wazatdingder
24-06-2010, 04:38
Interns...

If they don't have them, they're not a business. They obviously took a few minutes to say "lets cut allies" How about,

"Hey Tommy, fix the cost on transports and see what else seems off."

"Well this piece of wargear Liber Heresies or whatever doesn't work anymore, but we could change the wording a bit and make it do pretty much the same thing"

"Good, Play a few games, make sure it ain't too broken"

TheSanityAssassin
24-06-2010, 04:52
I'm somewhat frustrated because I JUST bought a unit of sisters for my Guard army. And now it seems it was 50 bucks wasted I could have spent elsewhere.

Wolf Lord Balrog
24-06-2010, 05:19
Did you playtest them? Did you have to do any other projects in that very time? Did you count the time others spent posting in your wishlist thread? Did you revise it until it was approved by the GW PR department for release?

GW don't want wishlist entry. They want all rules to come from their rules development team. That increases the workload a fair bit. Their developers also have full schedules, filled with other things they need to do. And then, once they are done, everything needs to be good enough for GW as a whole to be happy to put it's stamp of approval on it.

That will take a week maybe 2 of work and that's not an investment a company will want to make for a product they intend to give away for free, especially if, as rumours claim, the next proper redo is already on the schedule horizon.

Like I said, I did it in my spare time, in between working during the day and my normal social and recreational calenders. The point about playtesting I expected you to bring up. Give me a month, tops, and I could have it fully play-tested. Considerably less if it was my job and not just something I was doing in my spare time.

Now, as you say, that's just to work out the rules. That doesn't cover all the trimmings that go with a full codex release. But this was just a PDF release on their website we're talking about.

Escaflowne_Z
24-06-2010, 06:38
What was it? 4, 5 years ago that GW decided to not have any rules not in a codex or rulebook, so all players would have equal access to rules in a BOOK? This is not news, folks. Bar the BA PDF from a few years ago, no other armies have been updated in a non-codex way. The days of White Dwarf, Chapter Approved, and worldwide campaign armies are gone, and have been gone.

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 07:27
wazatdindger:
Are you actually proposing GW delegate rules design to unqualified employees and expecting them to improve the situation that way?
That assuming there is such a thing as an intern game designer, which I'm not convinced is the case.

The whole point of having the design team is to have that design team actually design the rules. And the design team must sign off on any change made to the released rules or the GW logo ceases to mean even what little it still does mean to some. Intern written rules are not going to be released by a major gaming company.

Balrog:
No company is ever going to ask its employees to create new products in their spare time. Overtime may be called for, but when it is, it will be for projects that are already part of the schedule and it will be payed. These people have full schedules and GW is in no hurry to pay them to do something that won't earn the company any money and was only done as a cost cutting method.

GW will not release codices, even in PDF form, that they didn't pay a designer to write. They will not take those designers of other projects as those fully occupy the designers' time (if they didn't they'd be wasting money and no buisness wants that). They also will not pay those designers more to do more work that won't earn any return. That leaves them simply with the choice of not updating these codices majorly. That they have done.

jamesterjlrb
24-06-2010, 07:39
Having read through some of ehlijen's posts i find myself forced to agree. With some of the dreadfully, un playtested stuff ccoming out (JOTWW) can you imagine if they haphazardly made changes. Simple stuff like changing the stormshield to 3+ save or changing rhino costs without playtesting them, cause SOB are more effective in rhinos than marines, so perhaps they should be higher? (playing devil's advocate here) if they made them cheaper, maybe it would be possible to create an evil army of doom at say 1500 that was not possible before. I reckon that faced with a choice of what they did, or implementing doubtless and rushed rule changes, they did what was prob the sensible thing and left sleeping dogs lie.

Having said that i do feel that either they change it or they leave it. They left it and this should have included allies for DH. DH basically relied on allies both for competitiveness and for some to give them a viable way of slowly building a DH army by tagging it along with guard. If they change that then they need more options in the codex to make up for that.

So overall. Sure leave it how it is, but at least remove useless options, make it a bit tidier and if you are going to leave it, leave it.

Also:

wazatdindger:
GW will not release codices, even in PDF form, that they didn't pay a designer to write. They will not take those designers of other projects as those fully occupy the designers' time (if they didn't they'd be wasting money and no buisness wants that). They also will not pay those designers more to do more work that won't earn any return. That leaves them simply with the choice of not updating these codices majorly. That they have done.

Agreed

The only exception was Blood Angels. The codex was made completely invalidated by SM 8th and so they compromised between dropping the BA product line and wasting it or putting in a whole new codex and updated product line. Sisters still have a valid if somewhat outdated codex and so GW do not want to release a free PDF codex when they can do a full release at their leisure.

sigur
24-06-2010, 07:42
If they had wanted to update the codex they'd have told the design team to write a new one. They didn't. All they wanted to do was somehow let their customers still acquire the rules for the Inquisition models ...

Indeed. Who ever thought that this would include a big update was just making stuff up and ultimately fell victim to dellusions. Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

I mean, what did you expect out of this? Nobody promised you anything and there were no rumors what so ever to suggest any updated to the codices. It's just scans and that's okay. You got stuff for free. Just use the Imperial Armour update pdf for your cheaper Rhinos if that's what you want.

There's some very, very harsh and unfair wording in this thread. You better stop and think before complaining about some little and for-free service that never promised to be more than it is. Reported.

@Xyrex: By the way, your signature is too long. Maybe you want to fix that.

Darnok
24-06-2010, 08:20
Voicing your issues with a GW product is okay, attacking GW employees is not. Everybody please stay civil, otherwise actions will be taken.


Darnok [=I=]

Fanboy
24-06-2010, 08:32
Some good points guys......and I agree with them all. I am very frustrated with GW, and have not spent a penny/cent on new models for some time now......just loosing interest.

Anyway, does GW even take note of these 'ranting'/frustrations, listsed on this forum? Are they aware of the un-happiness within their targeted market, and the impact it could have on them going forward? Does anyone from GW actually read this, and actually take notes.....and learn......advize.......

Or, are we all letting off steam, and will be back in the stores this weekend, purchasing more kits? If this is the case, then i do not blame GW for being so slack, and not addressing customer/gamer concerns (on a global basis, it would seem), because at the end of the day, we will continue to support the hobby........well not me..........I am still waiting for a tyranid and BA FAQ.....so i will continue to play, but will not spend a penny more on GW.....

Yours thankfully

Fanboy

Lord Damocles
24-06-2010, 08:38
If they had wanted to update the codex they'd have told the design team to write a new one. They didn't.
This.


I'd also think that it's a bit early to be claiming that the allies rules were removed on purpose. In the 'real' codex, they're adjacent to the page with the rules explaining how Grey Knight psykers work, what counts as a Grey Knight, and what counts as a Daemon* (pages 21 and 20 respectively) - which are also conspicuous by their absence.
Add to that the fact that Witch Hunters still have the ally rules, and their ommission looks less and less intentional.



*Admitedly these were outdated to the point of being silly, but they are necessary.

b4z
24-06-2010, 08:46
Solution to the allies problem....

Go on ebay, buy a daemonhunters[and/or]witchhunters codex for cheap...

Use that/those codex(s) as the rules..

Printed/Published Official GW material... no one can argue, keep your allies :D

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 09:38
Solution to the allies problem....

Go on ebay, buy a daemonhunters[and/or]witchhunters codex for cheap...

Use that/those codex(s) as the rules..

Printed/Published Official GW material... no one can argue, keep your allies :D

True, that's an option. But, being out of print, the price for those codices is just going to go up for the forseeable future at least.

sigur
24-06-2010, 09:54
True, that's an option. But, being out of print, the price for those codices is just going to go up for the forseeable future at least.

I don't think so. It's a 3rd edition codex and the rules are readily available online for free. I think that it will lower the prices on these codices on ebay if anything.

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 09:57
I don't think so. It's a 3rd edition codex and the rules are readily available online for free. I think that it will lower the prices on these codices on ebay if anything.

It should.

But the online codices are not the complete deal as I understand. Also, people manage to sell the completely free (and often outdated) Forgeworld catalogues on ebay.

sigur
24-06-2010, 10:01
It should.

But the online codices are not the complete deal as I understand.

It's a tiny detail that people will get some way or another if they really insist. And about the free FW catalogues....sure, there's always the weird ebay "misfires" but in regard of an overall price of codex WH or DH on ebay, these are of no significance.

mughi3
24-06-2010, 10:12
If this update is a repeat of the online BA book as a hold over till all the new goodness of a proper codex release comes around soon, i won't really take issue with it, if this is all thier are doing then they are shooting themselves in the foot.


Aside from taking away allies (which is great IMO, ally all you want in friendly games, keep it out of competition) GW once again shows how much they care by taking the time to do ANYTHING else.
Actually thats a horrible thing. i detest the move away from fluff based rules that make armies unique rather than overpowered. an =][= has the right to call upon or demand aid from any allied force in the imperium. as such they should have ally rules.

secondly from a more comercial standpoint, noting all the other issues with the codex in outdated rules, points cost and model cost by comparison few people are interested in building a pure GK force. however a squad or 2 of allies fits some armies very well. what this does is cost GW sales of DH mini's as allied componants that would otherwise never be used by most players.

Grimtuff
24-06-2010, 10:29
Solution to the allies problem....

Go on ebay, buy a daemonhunters[and/or]witchhunters codex for cheap...

Use that/those codex(s) as the rules..

Printed/Published Official GW material... no one can argue, keep your allies :D

Erm, no. It does not work that way. Otherwise I'll pull out my 3.5 CSM codex and start using that again. As it's a published GW codex right?

daboarder
24-06-2010, 10:33
What was it? 4, 5 years ago that GW decided to not have any rules not in a codex or rulebook, so all players would have equal access to rules in a BOOK? This is not news, folks. Bar the BA PDF from a few years ago, no other armies have been updated in a non-codex way. The days of White Dwarf, Chapter Approved, and worldwide campaign armies are gone, and have been gone.

You mean besides BA, Spearhead and WoC?

Edit: dont forget the night spinner.

Lungboy
24-06-2010, 10:57
What overcosted transports? It looks to me that 50 points basic is what they want them to be, with some armies getting bonus stuff (Fast in the case of BA, cheaper in the case of SM), and some paying the "proper" price. Additionally, they in fact did update the WH codex. Rhinos now get the Repair rule, smoke launchers use the main rulebook rules, Land Raiders get the WH version of PotMS without needing the FAQ etc. It must therefore be assumed that anything that they didn't change was considered to be working as intended.

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 11:19
Thanks, Lungboy. The importance of that hadn't really sunk in yet with me (d'oh!).

You are sure that those rules weren't in the second printing of the WH codex that I keep being told about, right? (I'm asking out of curiosity, not disbelief.)

Lungboy
24-06-2010, 11:27
They aren't in my copy of it, but i have no idea which version i have (i was aware of 2 DE and Necron books, but not 2 WH books).

Gorbad Ironclaw
24-06-2010, 11:31
If something is "OP" they'll FAQ or PDF it so fast your head spins, but if you're looking for an update, goooood luck.

No they won't. Aside from possible random FAQ questions GW never do a balance update one way or another. They don't update the game that way at all. If you want an update you better wait for your army to get a "proper" re-release whenever that is.

There have been a few occasions where we have seen something outside of proper army books/codex books but those are rare and generally isn't going to be repeated any time soon.

That there are any changes to the list at all is what surprises me, not that they didn't get a proper update.

Norsehawk
24-06-2010, 11:35
Solution to the allies problem....

Go on ebay, buy a daemonhunters[and/or]witchhunters codex for cheap...

Use that/those codex(s) as the rules..

Printed/Published Official GW material... no one can argue, keep your allies :D

Not exactly. You must use the most recent rules released for your army. the online codex is in fact the most recent update. Also if you compare both the online and the print version, it is clear that removing allies in the DH list was intentional. In the print version, under the dedicated transports is a box with ally information. In the online version, a picture was put in its place.

Previous example of the most recent codex version being the one you must go with: The stealth upgrade to the necrons a while back that changed living metal.

Edit: I must also point out that they did mess up on the DH pdf. They kind of forgot to include a Force Organization chart anywhere in the book which is required so that you know what quantity and type of units that are allowed in an army, making the codex unplayable.

Also, they can't update things like point costs without causing even more nerdrage from the Dark Angels for example "You gave DH the new storm shields and we don't get them! *RAGE*"

b4z
24-06-2010, 12:46
Erm, no. It does not work that way. Otherwise I'll pull out my 3.5 CSM codex and start using that again. As it's a published GW codex right?
Incorrect, as a newer CSM codex has been released printed/published.. with entirely new options/rulesets etc... therefore that takes precedence.. this is not the case for DH/WH [see below].

re: Norsehawk

your argument is much fairer.. However the online codexs are just the same as the originally printed/published codexs.. bar a few "missing" pages.

There is no official statement that this was intentional/means anything other than they wanted to keep the PDF size small.

Furthermore... No actual RULES have been changed. So essentially... they are the same.

Full Version [Printed Book] Compact Version [Online PDF] much like the two versions of the 40K Rulebook.

Bunnahabhain
24-06-2010, 14:05
So the WH one had the existing FAQs intergrated into the PDF and a force org chart, whilst the DH on has neither? That definitely sounds like a simple editing error..

I'm a Guard player who only has an Inq and retinue, and has borrowed assorted Sisters units at times. But I've still gone and bought a number of GW models to do this. I don't have any interest in starting a full Inq army, but if I can get the full rules for free, I'll pick up bits and bobs here and there, i.e. buy more models.

I'm only looking for the rules, a reasonably up to date FAQ, and some kind of vague re-assurance that the army isn't going to be squatted, or totally change beyond all recognition. Is that too much to ask?

x-esiv-4c
24-06-2010, 14:12
Expectation is the first step on the road to disappointment.

wazatdingder
24-06-2010, 15:58
I just want to point out that the title of this post is "a little disappointed" not "ravingly pissed" and if I seem a little short in some of my posts it is because I am usually dealing with a baby while I type. My intent is not to slam anyone personally at GW. I understand it is a business and they have stuff to work on. I honestly know nothing of their size as a company, but that doesn't really matter. This is my critique from the point of view of a loyal, veteran gamer.

Through 3rd and 4th ed there seemed to be new rules in every WD, it was called chapter approved. They did this to give the gamer a better gaming experience. New armies seemed to fall out of the sky, and I don't think any were OTT. There did not seem to be issue with finding time to playtest.

Gaming companies are usually made up of employees who love the product and love to play it. If this is not the case with GW anymore than they should call it quits. So, finding time to playtest simple changes should not be an issue. If they put out a call to gamers to volunteer to help with this I am sure no one would help;).

Alas, I am a consumer, not a producer. My point of view from one who's cup once overflowed with the generosity of GW and now my throat is dry. In hindsight, the =I= PDF is acceptable, especially considering they have been working on getting out the Tyranid FAQ that is so desperately needed:shifty:.

Oh, and I expect nothing but disappointment from GW at this point, but I hope I'm wrong.

Wolf Lord Balrog
24-06-2010, 16:14
Balrog:
No company is ever going to ask its employees to create new products in their spare time. Overtime may be called for, but when it is, it will be for projects that are already part of the schedule and it will be payed. These people have full schedules and GW is in no hurry to pay them to do something that won't earn the company any money and was only done as a cost cutting method.

I wasn't saying they should do it in their spare time, I was saying I did it in my spare time. Therefore I would expect it to be that much easier for the 'Pros' at GW, who should both be better game designers than me, and they are paid to do this 8 hours a day.


GW will not release codices, even in PDF form, that they didn't pay a designer to write. They will not take those designers of other projects as those fully occupy the designers' time (if they didn't they'd be wasting money and no buisness wants that). They also will not pay those designers more to do more work that won't earn any return. That leaves them simply with the choice of not updating these codices majorly. That they have done.

That's all I'm saying. Stick a designer on it for a couple weeks, at most, <bam> minorly revised codex in PDF form. And businesses spend money to create free content all the time, it hasn't been cited as a reason anybody went under yet to my knowledge.

And if the DA and BT players get jealous? Well they have a good point, release a similar 'minor revision' PDF update for them too.

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 16:16
Through 3rd and 4th ed there seemed to be new rules in every WD, it was called chapter approved. They did this to give the gamer a better gaming experience. New armies seemed to fall out of the sky, and I don't think any were OTT. There did not seem to be issue with finding time to playtest.




Actually, as far as I know, opinions on those were divided. It wasn't called the chapter of the month period for nothing, most of which followed the pattern of:
-make something 0-1
-give some army wide benefit or
-add some funky new unit/upgrade that seemed really good on paper (in reality there was a 50-50 chance it'd rule or loose)

But despite that, I wish they'd go back to that.


Balrog:
And what happens to the other tasks that designer was meant to do in that time? Occupying a paid professionals time for a few weeks is not a cheap undertaking. They did not want to do that at this time.

It happened with the BA codex for two reasons: a large chunk was copypasted from the recently released DA codex and the original 3rd ed BA codex had become fully unusable as it directly referred to a nonexistant codex for it's compulsory units. The inquisition codices are legally usable without allies and had no recent book large chunks could be copy pasted from.

Also, note that the BA WD release was of terrible quality with incomplete and missing special rules and door less rhinos, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement for GW to try that again.

Lungboy
24-06-2010, 16:33
It would appear that there may well be a second printing of the WH codex, in which it has Repairing Rhinos and PotMS. Even my older copy has the Smoke Launcher rule, so that isn't a change. If true, then they haven't updated the WH codex either, just uploaded the most recent print version.

ehlijen
24-06-2010, 16:38
Interesting. Sounds plausible they'd just use whatever the latest version was, but it takes us back to guessing on the allies bit.

Lungboy
24-06-2010, 16:50
I'm not so sure. If you compare page 30 and 31 of the book to page 20 and 21 of the pdf, there should be a box along the bottom telling us telling us what can be inducted into a DH army, but instead there are 2 pieces of artwork. You can even see the 2 thin tramlines that were originally the top and bottom of the text box. Sadly, it would appear that they don't want us to induct anything into a DH army, and it would follow that they also don't want any DH being used by another army. Sad times if true.

LonelyPath
24-06-2010, 17:05
The inability to induct into units the DH list is my largest peeve about the PDF release, even if the FOC is missing people can draw upon the FOC in all other codecis to see how it would work. However I have the printed codex to fall upon for that, plus the lack of definition in terms of Daemon and Grey Knight will lead o rule bending/breaking.

Wolf Lord Balrog
24-06-2010, 17:33
Actually, as far as I know, opinions on those were divided. It wasn't called the chapter of the month period for nothing, most of which followed the pattern of:
-make something 0-1
-give some army wide benefit or
-add some funky new unit/upgrade that seemed really good on paper (in reality there was a 50-50 chance it'd rule or loose)

But despite that, I wish they'd go back to that.

I'd like a return to this too. Didn't seem to take them too much effort back then. I wonder what changed...



Balrog:
And what happens to the other tasks that designer was meant to do in that time? Occupying a paid professionals time for a few weeks is not a cheap undertaking. They did not want to do that at this time.

As you say, they did not want to. It was obviously a discretionary decision, and thus open to criticism.


It happened with the BA codex for two reasons: a large chunk was copypasted from the recently released DA codex and the original 3rd ed BA codex had become fully unusable as it directly referred to a nonexistant codex for it's compulsory units. The inquisition codices are legally usable without allies and had no recent book large chunks could be copy pasted from.

But the parts that need updating, the vehicles and wargear, there is a source to copy/paste from: Codex: Space Marines. Yes, it would require some minor modifications to the document to make it look good, but c'mon, you aren't saying that's hard for them are you?


Also, note that the BA WD release was of terrible quality with incomplete and missing special rules and door less rhinos, which is not exactly a ringing endorsement for GW to try that again.

Like the hack-job they actually released? This doesn't have near as much to do with what is or isn't possible as GW's laziness and incompetence. Boy I'm glad its been years since I've bought any of their products.

Edit: Here's today's blog post: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=10500141a
Nothing relevant whatsoever, just a vapid sales pitch to buy more Stormtroopers. Good one GW.

ehlijen
25-06-2010, 01:32
I'm not just saying they did not want to, but also that if they had wanted to, they would have sold those things for AUD$40 a piece rather than offer them free.

You have the right to criticise, but I have the right to point out that asking for a free new codex just wasn't going to happen. It was always either free or new, never both and the fact that free was even a possibility is a significant change for the better.

On the article: Yeah, that was dissappointing :(
That means that for now allies aren't meant to be included I guess. Which is a valid decision given how poorly they fit in with the other, newer books these days, though once again we are allowed to dislike it (as I do).

shabbadoo
25-06-2010, 03:54
It is just a holdover release. It is out there, for free, so take it for what its worth. Granted, WH/S.o.B. players will be waiting much longer for their 5E codex, such that they may well be crying real blood tears of the martyr by then. DH/Grey Knights do not have so long to wait though. This just gives people something to complain about in the meantime. :p

IcedAnimals
25-06-2010, 04:24
Ehlijen, actually the very company we are talking about asks its employees to work on projects in their spare time. Ask just about any gamesworkshop retail employee how often they are told they need to complete an entire painted army by a certain date and to work on it at home. Or ask any of the current "single store" shop owners how much control they have over their own shop. And if they are asked to come up with their own ideas for their store.

And with GW's current move toward one man shops it is not like the employee actually can ask someone for help. As long as the shop makes its quotas they really don't care.

But that aside, people would be fooling themsevles if they thought an actual update would be put in. I did have SLIGHT hopes for the FAQ to be included in so people wouldn't need two .pdfs but eh.

oldgamer56
25-06-2010, 15:41
As more details come out, it appears to me that they may have released someone's working files. There seems to be some attempt at dropping some other 3rd edition stuff.

But a quick one paragraph blurb would have been so easy and customer sauvy.

But, then again, they want to grow mushrooms.

b4z
01-07-2010, 09:33
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=11200008a


We recently made the Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters codexes available to download as PDFs. Since then, we've received a spate of emails asking questions about the difference between the PDFs and the original, printed copies. Rather than reply to you all individually, I thought I'd try to answer your questions here. Firstly, the rules for allied Space Marines and Inducted Imperial Guard were originally written to reference books that have since gone out of print, so we streamlined the rules required to allow players to collect an army of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters. The Daemonhunters army list uses the Standard Force Organisation chart, which you'll find on page 87 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook. The other point that seems to be causing the most confusion is whether or not the PDF versions supersede the printed versions. They don't: you should feel free to continue to use whatever resources you have available to play your games with; the PDF does not overrule or invalidate the printed Codex book. Yes, this may mean that you and your opponent are using what are essentially different army lists for the same army but not every Inquisition force will comprise of the same elements (highly specialised and secretive forces that they are). And if you'd rather use the same one as your opponent, why not simply decide which version you collectively want to use and share the rules between one another? As for tournaments and gaming events, it's entirely up to the organisers to decide which version to use; it is after all their event.

Seems i was right re: above.

IJW
01-07-2010, 11:19
Ask just about any gamesworkshop retail employee how often they are told they need to complete an entire painted army by a certain date and to work on it at home.
Depending on their contract that's getting into pretty dodgy territory, legally speaking.

FabricatorGeneralMike
01-07-2010, 13:53
QUOTE=Lord Malorne;4760137]And your point is?[/QUOTE]


How dare you steal Meri's ava.....All Glory to the Hypnotoad !!!!! ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WX6s-9hv800&feature=related



And for the above post, yeppers, I was asked many times to convert, assemble, paint, etc etc, something at home on my time. I did it for the love of the hobby....sighs =o[.... altho it was nice to have new stuff early =o]