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The Inevitable One
24-06-2010, 06:00
This thread was created to collect all of the questions and concerns that people have regarding the future of Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters. It can relate to models, rules, or anything that pertains to the two Imperial armies.

A poll has recently just been created to see where people stand on the issue.

To the people who were thinking about collecting Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters, most have now been put on hold recently because the two codexes/codices were removed in the hard copy format. Now that they have been released on Adobe PDF, and now most can resume their army building and continue on. But for the few that don't even have the models themselves, it does raise an issue. I know that it has been known for a long time that the core box sets of a Inquisition force have been removed such as:


Sisters Repentia


Arco-Flagellants


Sisters of Battle Squad (Set of ten, including a Sister Superior)


Grey Knights Squad (Set of five, including a Justicar)


I do understand that you can buy the blister packs with two or three models in it depending on whether it is Battle Sisters or Grey Knights, but they are more expensive compared to the box sets and even then if you do buy them says it would take anywhere between 2 to 3 weeks for the Grey Knights to be sent out and 4 to 5 weeks for the Battle Sisters to be sent out.

Moving on from the models part there are the rules and FAQ's. Within the past couple of days, the digital copies of the codexes/codices were release but were missing pieces of information such as the allies chart in which other Imperial forces such as Space Marines and Imperial Guard can be attached or the other way around. People have stated this, and depending on whether or not it was done for a reason, we have been told to wait it out for a couple of days.

With regards to the FAQ's, I am sure that Games Workshop is trying to develop a fair system in which all armies vehicles are balanced point wise (such an example that people have stated is the Rhino 35pts. versus 50pts.).

So are there any questions, concerns, or just ideas that people have about Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters? If so state them so the people of WarSeer
can help out.

Witch Hunters PDF Codex from Games Workshop: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=9800045a
Daemonhunters PDF Codex from Games Workshop: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=9800044a

Both of these require that you register for the Games Workshop website, but as I have been told it is easy. If you already have an account then just go to the Astronomican link right below and between the Lord of the Rings and Gaming tabs/links at the Games Workshop website. There are also multiple versions of the codexes/codices in different languages if one particular language is not your strong point.

(If new news does appear I will edit my thread post so that everyone is informed)

Thank you for reading and if I have placed this in the wrong forum, I am off topic, or is a duplicated thread, I am sorry in advance. If it is in the wrong forum, may someone place it in the correct one.

Garven Dreis
24-06-2010, 06:03
It's the first time I've had a look at the two codecii, and I really want to start a Grey Knights force, goddamn they look good.

The Inevitable One
24-06-2010, 06:14
They might be small in number, but they do pack a punch, and if I recall correct especially against Daemons.

IcedAnimals
24-06-2010, 06:47
I actually think that due to 5th edition changes the bonuses it gives to daemons actually outweight the bonuses the grey knights receive for fighting them. Thus the army aimed at beating daemons is worse at it than anyone else. This issue is not addressed in the new PDFs.

I do however hope that the new PDFs bring fresh blood to the sisters and grey knights. Get a few more people to buy the left over stock and perhaps get GW to see some demand for the product.

The Inevitable One
24-06-2010, 14:44
Yeah, I also heard that the current edition negates some of the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters rules. But all the more reason to update the FAQ or bring out some sort of newly attached rules to the PDF copy of the codexes/codices.

mdauben
24-06-2010, 15:15
I do understand that you can buy the blister packs with two or three models in it depending on whether it is Battle Sisters or Grey Knights, but they are more expensive compared to the box sets and even then if you do buy them says it would take anywhere between 2 to 3 weeks for the Grey Knights to be sent out and 4 to 5 weeks for the Battle Sisters to be sent out.
Both the box sets and blister packs can be found from independent sellers and retailers in both brick n mortar and on line venues. They are slowly starting to dry up, however, so if you want to build a DH or WH army now, you better start buying as quickly as you can.


With regards to the FAQ's, I am sure that Games Workshop is trying to develop a fair system in which all armies vehicles are balanced point wise
Haha... oh, wait. Were you serious? :eek:

There are issues and imbalances with the DH codex in particular that have existed since the IG and SM codexes were updates (or even since 5th ed was released) that have never been fully addressed. I don't expect we will see any further updating of the current =I= codexes and errata until and unless new codexes are released.


It's the first time I've had a look at the two codecii, and I really want to start a Grey Knights force, goddamn they look good.
Just be aware that the "pure" GK list is one of the most limited and arguably one of the weakest lists (despite the strenght of their individual units) in the game. Very fluffy and lots of fun, but not too competative. :(

Creeping Dementia
24-06-2010, 15:24
As far as questions, I've been playing Pure Sisters for a while now, and not much has really changed for me lately.

As far as models being difficult to get, Arcos and Repentia aren't a big deal, no one takes them anyway. I currently have all the Sisters I need until an update, but I could see getting started with them now being next to impossible.
As for the PDFs, allies are really the only things that seem to be different (sections omitted), but part of it is still in the Witch Hunters PDF, Grey Knights are the most affected (well... and IG).

For stuff in the future....
One fix I hope occurs will be giving Witch Hunters a way to capture the enemy objective during a 2 objective game with Spearhead deployment. If my opponent places that objective in his far corner there isn't a way I can get there if I'm slowed down at all. We have no outflanking, infiltration, or scouts, and the only Deep Striking we have is fragile Seraphim (which don't score). Granted, that scenario usually ends up a draw no matter which army you play with, but it would be nice to have the option.

Rhino point costs are a concern, but we still have cheaper extra armor. It would be nice to have 35pt rhinos, but I can live with it.

It would also be nice if Immolators were brought in line with Blood Angel Razorbacks, which can do everything an Immolator can do, but can go fast, move and fire 12inches with more options than just the TL Hflamer, and is cheaper.

Other than that, there are just a lot of units in the Codex that are almost (or nearly) completely useless. Elite Inquisitors (no purpose), All Assassins (ineffective for point cost and KPs), Repentia (just totally worthless, competing with Tau Ethereals as the worst unit in 40k), Arcos (situational at best), Orbital bombardment (riiiiiight...), Priests (were only really usefull in IG), Retributors (not good weapon options... let them have Heavy Flamers or Missile Launchers and ohhhhh buddy:angel:), Penitent Engines (I love the models and the concept, but the rules for them just aren't good enough :cries:... too fragile and/or slow).
That really just leaves Sororitas units, Exorcists/Immolators, and the Inquisitor Lord (for his hood and a few melta vets in his retinue), Inquisitorial Stormtroopers are ok, but conditional and overpriced compared to Guard equivalents (and have outdated Chimeras). Thankfully, what we do use gets the job done.

I don't think there are many rules or future of the army questions I have. The rules for the units we do use are fine, point costs are a bit old but don't ruin the army. Sisters as a whole have aged pretty well, and IMO have seen a bit of a revival in 5th edition.
I'm confident they'll get an update within the next 2 years, but I'm not overly anxious... new models will be great... new rules can be a crap-shoot.

The Inevitable One
24-06-2010, 15:31
Both the box sets and blister packs can be found from independent sellers and retailers in both brick n mortar and on line venues. They are slowly starting to dry up, however, so if you want to build a DH or WH army now, you better start buying as quickly as you can.

Yeah, I tried to go down to my nearest Games Workshop last weekend to see if there was any left, but apparently it had closed down. It is really unfortunate because that was the only Games Workshop in my state.



Haha... oh, wait. Were you serious? :eek:.

Haha, well yes, I was trying to be serious.



There are issues and imbalances with the DH codex in particular that have existed since the IG and SM codexes were updates (or even since 5th ed was released) that have never been fully addressed. I don't expect we will see any further updating of the current =I= codexes and errata until and unless new codexes are released.

I have been reading the imbalances/issues all over the place. I don't know if this is connected in anyway, but since Daemons are getting a revamp in terms of models and such, I was wondering if they are going to bring out a set of modified rules for either Daemons or Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters so that neither one is completely dulled down in terms of power.

Creeping Dementia
24-06-2010, 15:40
I have been reading the imbalances/issues all over the place. I don't know if this is connected in anyway, but since Daemons are getting a revamp in terms of models and such, I was wondering if they are going to bring out a set of modified rules for either Daemons or Daemonhunters/Witch Hunters so that neither one is completely dulled down in terms of power.

Daemonhunters are rumored to be in the pipeline (probably within a year), so rules modifications or updates for them are highly unlikely.

As I put in my post earlier, Witch Hunters are fine if you avoid the Inquisition portion of the Dex. And based on my experience we've got no problem with Daemons as things are now.

mdauben
24-06-2010, 16:47
Yeah, I tried to go down to my nearest Games Workshop last weekend to see if there was any left, but apparently it had closed down. It is really unfortunate because that was the only Games Workshop in my state.
I would not consider that any great loss. In the USA at least I always thought GW Stores were a bad thing for the hobby, as they tended to kill off independent game stores in their area, thus limiting access to discounted minis (or other games and manufacturers for that matter). Plus I found GW store drones incredebly annoying the few times I did venture into one of their retail outlets. :rolleyes:

Of course, if that was your only local game store that is kind of a blow. :(

The Inevitable One
24-06-2010, 18:05
I would not consider that any great loss. In the USA at least I always thought GW Stores were a bad thing for the hobby, as they tended to kill off independent game stores in their area, thus limiting access to discounted minis (or other games and manufacturers for that matter). Plus I found GW store drones incredebly annoying the few times I did venture into one of their retail outlets. :rolleyes:

Of course, if that was your only local game store that is kind of a blow. :(

I was able to find several independent retailers in the area surrounding me. I called them and they seemed nice, so I might take a visit.

I was able to find out a few things though from them. It might not be new, but they all said that Grey Knights and Battle Sisters are getting plastic models in the following months (four or five). So we would be looking at November or possibly December at having new Inquisition models.

Nezalhualixtlan
24-06-2010, 19:02
If I were to do any of teh Inquisition forces, I'd be waiting for a new release, a new Codex with new plastics. While the models are awesome looking, I'd be unhappy with an all metal army.

mdauben
24-06-2010, 19:10
I was able to find out a few things though from them. It might not be new, but they all said that Grey Knights and Battle Sisters are getting plastic models in the following months (four or five).
There are persistent rumors of new plastics for GK and SOB, although I think given what we know/suspect is already in the pipe line for release this year 4-5 months seems overly optimistic (unless they end as an isolated release like the new daemon minis, and not part of a new Codex release cycle?).

Still, I would not mind being proven wrong. ;)

IcedAnimals
24-06-2010, 19:30
Grey knights are likely to be the January army. Sisters will be a bit further off. But hopefully not too far!

Ba'al Starslayer
24-06-2010, 20:54
I don't want to sound like a GK know-it-all (Templars is my field :p) but they don't REALLY excel against Daemons... The only anti-Daemon (quality) stuff is the wargear, and the more of that stuff you purchase, the smaller the army, and the anti-daemon stuff doesn't effect anything else!
This isn't to say that GKs aren't good. I always field some of them as allies and they really do pack one HELL of a punch (Especially a GM and Retinue!)

The annoying thing that these Codecii bring to the table is.... NOTHING. As in, NOTHING has been done. It would take all of what.... 30 mins? An hour? to have a quick look (Especially at the Daemonhunters one) and modify the rules that have no effect (Right of Exorcism, for example).

The Inevitable One
24-06-2010, 21:49
I don't want to sound like a GK know-it-all (Templars is my field :p) but they don't REALLY excel against Daemons... The only anti-Daemon (quality) stuff is the wargear, and the more of that stuff you purchase, the smaller the army, and the anti-daemon stuff doesn't effect anything else!
This isn't to say that GKs aren't good. I always field some of them as allies and they really do pack one HELL of a punch (Especially a GM and Retinue!)

The annoying thing that these Codecii bring to the table is.... NOTHING. As in, NOTHING has been done. It would take all of what.... 30 mins? An hour? to have a quick look (Especially at the Daemonhunters one) and modify the rules that have no effect (Right of Exorcism, for example).

True. There are some things that need to be changed. For example I was reading a post or two a while ago about whether or not Daemon Princes should be counted as Daemons. Apparently because it was not listed in Codex: Daemonhunters as a Daemon, it sparked arguments amongst players. I fail to see how people can think it is not a Daemon. To become a Daemon Prince you must first be elevated to Daemonhood. The suffix, -hood, means condition; state; quality, thus a Daemon Prince is a Daemon. Though I don't know if that is a big issue or not.

Souleater
24-06-2010, 21:54
Grey Knights will hopefully go back to being anti-chaos rather than just Deamons. That would open up a lot of options for them.

Justicar Valius
24-06-2010, 21:55
I don't want to sound like a GK know-it-all (Templars is my field :p) but they don't REALLY excel against Daemons... The only anti-Daemon (quality) stuff is the wargear, and the more of that stuff you purchase, the smaller the army, and the anti-daemon stuff doesn't effect anything else!
This isn't to say that GKs aren't good. I always field some of them as allies and they really do pack one HELL of a punch (Especially a GM and Retinue!)

The annoying thing that these Codecii bring to the table is.... NOTHING. As in, NOTHING has been done. It would take all of what.... 30 mins? An hour? to have a quick look (Especially at the Daemonhunters one) and modify the rules that have no effect (Right of Exorcism, for example).

Indeed we do have some disadvantages, however tell this to a player that just had his fateweaver shot with a psycannon and his infantry squads killed by 2 incinerators + a smattering of stormbolter hail. He will say they are very good anti daemon though they are a very sub par codex, others will just sa the latter.

Vet.Sister
24-06-2010, 22:30
the main thing I desire for the Witchhunter codex is that the Battle Sisters should be a viable army capable of competing in all phases of the game with any other army.

fwacho
28-06-2010, 01:54
Just be aware that the "pure" GK list is one of the most limited and arguably one of the weakest lists (despite the strenght of their individual units) in the game. Very fluffy and lots of fun, but not too competative. :(

gotta disagree with that. had a DH grey hunters player regularly make my life difficult

Ba'al Starslayer
28-06-2010, 01:57
Yeah I second Fwacho; pure Grey Knights have the ability to be very potent and extremely powerful if used properly!

blurrymadness
28-06-2010, 02:12
the main thing I desire for the Witchhunter codex is that the Battle Sisters should be a viable army capable of competing in all phases of the game with any other army.

Sounds like a lame codex?

There's no reason that SoB should "compete" with Berzerkers or Nobz in CC, no reason for every army to be more maneuverable than every other. It used to be DE, Orks, Eldar were the fastest armies, in that order! Now we have BA and IG pushing Eldar down the chute, with DE and Orks being slower in everything but assault. (Ravagers can only move 6 and shoot, BWs and loaded boyz suffer the same thing)