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Vsurma
24-06-2010, 21:23
With the new rules how do you see dragons faring?

I see a fair few rules that work against them.

1. in a challenge the mounts attacks do not count towards overkill.
2. charge bonus of +1 cr.

So if a dragon starts annoying me near my army, I can charge in with a unit of skirmishers, challenge. Let's say I hit a flank, that is +1 flank, +1 charge. Opponent has 4-5 attacks to make 2 wounds or loses combat. Ok most of the time it will win by 1 but you will likely hold it in place.

Granted with skirmishers no longer having 360 los maybe that won't happen.

Still, the challenge will be a blow to the dragon and rider combos.
Units with ranks and banners will likely win the first combat.

Eumerin
24-06-2010, 21:33
Since it has true line of sight, you can keep it safely behind another unit and out of the way of skirmishers (using friendly units to interpose) until you're ready to use it to charge an enemy unit.

Dragons also get the breath weapon melee attack once per game - 2d6 automatic hits on the unit that they're in close combat with. That's going to hurt...

decker_cky
24-06-2010, 21:33
You're missing the crush hits. Add D6 S6 hits and dragons tend to win combat nearly every round, and very quickly chew through the unit.

Vsurma
24-06-2010, 21:36
You're missing the crush hits. Add D6 S6 hits and dragons tend to win combat nearly every round, and very quickly chew through the unit.

The idea was to challenge, so the dragons hits.....don't count.

For the turn they charge at least, on the following turn you will want to charge them with another unit with another champ to challenge again.

Eumerin
24-06-2010, 21:49
The idea was to challenge, so the dragons hits.....don't count.

For the turn they charge at least, on the following turn you will want to charge them with another unit with another champ to challenge again.

Well one would expect that the dragon's owner would be aware of the possibility of getting charged and plan accordingly...

Regardless, I'm not entirely certain whether the melee breath attack and the thunder stomp hits apply only to the target of the challenge or the unit as a whole. Something that should probably be confirmed.

Sygerrik
24-06-2010, 21:54
The idea was to challenge, so the dragons hits.....don't count.

For the turn they charge at least, on the following turn you will want to charge them with another unit with another champ to challenge again.

yeah the dire wolf dragonpit works better than ever now!

Paraelix
24-06-2010, 22:37
With the new rules how do you see dragons faring?

I see a fair few rules that work against them.

1. in a challenge the mounts attacks do not count towards overkill.
2. charge bonus of +1 cr.

So if a dragon starts annoying me near my army, I can charge in with a unit of skirmishers, challenge. Let's say I hit a flank, that is +1 flank, +1 charge. Opponent has 4-5 attacks to make 2 wounds or loses combat. Ok most of the time it will win by 1 but you will likely hold it in place.

Granted with skirmishers no longer having 360 los maybe that won't happen.

Still, the challenge will be a blow to the dragon and rider combos.
Units with ranks and banners will likely win the first combat.

What skirmisher unit are you taking a champion in? Especially one that won't get completely annihilated by the rider? Most everage riders will kill you and do an extra wound... That is still 2 to your 1. Plus fear factors in.

These boys are brilliant due to breath weapons IMO. Originally I was won over by the 2D6 hits in combat, but after having a Hydra torch half a unit of Saurus (who were T6 at the time) and after using my Sallies, these things are terrifying.

Vsurma
25-06-2010, 05:44
I always take a champ in my units of skinks, its an extra 6 pts and saves my army from dragons. Doesn't really do much else, it can save my unit from getting decimated when charged as well.

It is mostly there for dragon challenges which are getting a lot better in 8th. (I normally have about 5 skink champs in my army)

Mullitron
25-06-2010, 10:53
Well even if skink champions do suddenly become a threat to dragon riders in the 8th edition, i think they will still be a viable option. They will still be able to dish out lots of hurt and have the speed to avoid many threats whether that be a skink champion or dwarf cannon. Chaos dragons with their two breath attacks will become quite nasty now let alone Galrauch with its special breath attack in addition!