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View Full Version : Stegadons, then and now. 8th Edition.



TheDireAvenger
25-06-2010, 17:33
Just 2-3 weeks ago, people were lamenting the passing of the Stegadon and how ridiculously nerfed it got due to it no longer breaking ranks, and all the Skinks getting killed easily.

Now that 8th edition is essentially OUT, how much of the doom and gloom is true. The Stegadon still can't break ranks but it gained other abilities as well as well as some extra-attacks. And now big cannons no longer gain the +1 to hit large targets which is a direct benefit to the Stegadon.

My questions:

-Were the vulernability of the Skinks on Stegadon such as an Engine of the Gods still true? So now it's worthless to get a EotG unless you're going to keep it out of combat.

-How nerfed was the Stegadon in general? Is it still very competitive to field 2-3 in an list?

-How many will you be using if any to support your saurus?

Malorian
25-06-2010, 17:38
The lose of +1 to hit for large target helps, but making all cannons do D6 wounds hurt a lot more.

They won't break units on their own but they can still be helpful to add a good amount of wounds to a combat. Just make sure to back them up with infantry.

N810
25-06-2010, 17:45
I was wondering if the priest or chief mounted stegs would get the new combined profile rule...?

It would definately make them more surviaviable.

HeroFox
25-06-2010, 18:00
Does the cannonball ever randomize now or is that out?

SevenSins
25-06-2010, 18:02
IIRC the combined profile was for mounts of a more conventional size, I sure hope so, an ancient stegadon with skink toughness?

I think stegs have moved to a more supporting role, however the good news is now I can play with 8-10 stegs without cries of cheese, Yey!

N810
25-06-2010, 18:46
IIRC the combined profile was for mounts of a more conventional size, I sure hope so, an ancient stegadon with skink toughness?

I think stegs have moved to a more supporting role, however the good news is now I can play with 8-10 stegs without cries of cheese, Yey!

Ohhhh.... I figured it would just use the best stats from each profile. :cries:

willowdark
25-06-2010, 18:53
EotG still has Burning Alignment on top of the crush attacks and impact hits on the charge.

BA still makes the EotG a powerful combat mount, but I think all other versions have been dropped down a notch. Stegs were never great in combat. They were really only good for breaking ranks and impact hits. Crush attacks boost this, which is nice.

I think Howda Weapons will be the better use for non-Engine Stegs. At M6 and free pivot you can play avoidance pretty well, especially with laxed terrain rules and TLoS. Blowpipes might be the best thing in the world against large infantry blocks, especially combined with Salamanders.

Falkman
25-06-2010, 19:04
I think the Stegadon will still be a force to be reckoned with, you just can't send it in alone and hope to break a unit right away.
If you send it in as infantry support it will generate loads of CR to swing any combat in your favour.
Regarding Engines of the Gods, I think they'll want to stay out of combat from now on. Return attacks means the Priest is gonna get killed very fast if he get stuck in, better to just hang out close to units and do Burning Alignment and cast your spells (from the much improved Lore of Heavens!).


I was wondering if the priest or chief mounted stegs would get the new combined profile rule...?
The combined profile is for 'Monstrous mounts', Stegadons are 'Monsters', which is another category.
Basically Monstrous mounts are stuff like Terradons, Unicorns, Pegasi and other lesser monster mounts.

Sloppyjayman
25-06-2010, 19:13
I plan on fielding 3 regular stegadons. That is 3 bolt throwers and some serious problems for infantry units when 3 smash your big block of 50 high elf spearmen.

I also plan on using them to kill heroes and mages. Charge stegadon into unit. Target chacacter with both stegadon and skink attacks. That is one dead hero or mage.

N810
25-06-2010, 19:13
I think the Stegadon will still be a force to be reckoned with, you just can't send it in alone and hope to break a unit right away.
If you send it in as infantry support it will generate loads of CR to swing any combat in your favour.
Regarding Engines of the Gods, I think they'll want to stay out of combat from now on. Return attacks means the Priest is gonna get killed very fast if he get stuck in, better to just hang out close to units and do Burning Alignment and cast your spells (from the much improved Lore of Heavens!).


The combined profile is for 'Monstrous mounts', Stegadons are 'Monsters', which is another category.
Basically Monstrous mounts are stuff like Terradons, Unicorns, Pegasi and other lesser monster mounts.

I mention it because when the steg is riden by the Skink Chief or Priest it's
considered a mount and follows all the rules for monsterous mounts.

if it doesn't have a character riding it is just a very strange monster.


wierd I know.
but thats how they worked in 7th.

willowdark
25-06-2010, 19:16
Isn't the distinction drawn between Large and non-Large Targets. So a Peg gets a combined profile but a Dragon doesn't.

Between those choices, I'd say a Steg is more like a Dragon than a Peg. ;)

Oberon
25-06-2010, 19:19
IIRC the combined profile was for mounts of a more conventional size, I sure hope so, an ancient stegadon with skink toughness?

I think stegs have moved to a more supporting role, however the good news is now I can play with 8-10 stegs without cries of cheese, Yey!

I would personally just pack up and leave if someone brought even 4 stegadons to the field. I don't care they don't break ranks, with WoC 4 ranks=very expensive and with all those attacks they won't last. Burning alignment is as strong as before and it was very powerful even then. Not everyone has 3 great cannons to blast those 8-10 stegadons.

Could someone break it down and explain to me, why stegadons are suddenly so bad you could take 10 of them and not be cheesy?

Falkman
25-06-2010, 19:26
I mention it because when the steg is riden by the Skink Chief or Priest it's
considered a mount and follows all the rules for monsterous mounts.

wierd I know.
but thats how they worked in 7th.
Except that's not how it works, not in 8th ;).

willowdark
25-06-2010, 19:29
Regarding Engines of the Gods, I think they'll want to stay out of combat from now on. Return attacks means the Priest is gonna get killed very fast if he get stuck in, better to just hang out close to units and do Burning Alignment and cast your spells (from the much improved Lore of Heavens!).

Since Supportive attacks only work to the front, Sending him into the flank to get the impact hits and crush attacks on top of BA will be relatively low risk considering it's only a 50mm frontage and he has a 2+ AS. You can probably afford a nice ward save from the new common magic items in the book as well.

Sparowl
25-06-2010, 21:33
Stegadons are still going be good, just not game winning.

They fall into a new support role of either adding damage to a combat where you already have infantry engaged, or of attacking already damaged units/light units.

If you run saurus warriors into a unit, manage to work them down to a single or double rank of troops, but the Saurus warriors get wiped, then the steg can finish that unit off most of the time.

Stegs can still go hunt small units of cav/skirmishers by themselves.

They also provide nice big targets for the opponent, meaning your normal troops will more likely get across the table untouched.

I plan on running 2 now, where I previously only ran one.

SevenSins
25-06-2010, 22:09
I would personally just pack up and leave if someone brought even 4 stegadons to the field. I don't care they don't break ranks, with WoC 4 ranks=very expensive and with all those attacks they won't last. Burning alignment is as strong as before and it was very powerful even then. Not everyone has 3 great cannons to blast those 8-10 stegadons.

Could someone break it down and explain to me, why stegadons are suddenly so bad you could take 10 of them and not be cheesy?

It was mainly mean as a joke. Considering several Eotg's I agree with you, burning alignement is as dangerous as ever to elite armies.

Mainly they will have less of an impact (pun intented) when running into large blocks alone, much the same as chariots really. Still with impact hits and thunderstomp they'll rack up some kills quite fast.

If I ever run 8+ stegadons (or even 4+) I would probably inform my opponent beforehand so the game would be fun for both (we don't tailor lists around here), for a tourney on the other hand..... hmmm..

(I just love the steg model is all)

Raditz
26-06-2010, 01:54
How many Stegadons can one fit into a 2000pt army? I'm not plannin anything evil at all... :evilgrin:

SatireSphere
26-06-2010, 02:30
Does the cannonball ever randomize now or is that out?

If a cannonball hits a model with more than one profile the entire model (all of the profiles) are hit once. So a lord on a dragon getting hit by the cannonball would result in both the lord and the dragon being hit.

Oberon
26-06-2010, 06:27
It was mainly mean as a joke. Considering several Eotg's I agree with you, burning alignement is as dangerous as ever to elite armies.

Mainly they will have less of an impact (pun intented) when running into large blocks alone, much the same as chariots really. Still with impact hits and thunderstomp they'll rack up some kills quite fast.

If I ever run 8+ stegadons (or even 4+) I would probably inform my opponent beforehand so the game would be fun for both (we don't tailor lists around here), for a tourney on the other hand..... hmmm..

(I just love the steg model is all)

Yeah, I kind of quessed that from the 10 stegs-thing (seeing as you can't actually fit them in a normal sized game) :) In 7ed I could not beat 1 EOTG and 2 stegs, engine did more damage than the kitted out slann, and from my point of view (no cannons or ranks for me) stegs just got d6 s6 autohits that go last=a power up. Maybe I'll just have to hope that lore of shadows proves as good as I hope it seems like, and they raise the point limit so I can fit hellcannon in...

So:
-Cannons hit all parts and small cannons do d6 wounds too
-can't break ranks anymore
+d6 s6 autohits with ASL evey turn against infantry
-/+ something else?

sulla
26-06-2010, 07:01
There is a rumour that stubborn units get to use the general's Ld. If this rule is true, it will make stegs pretty useful indeed. Hard to hurt, almost impossible to break and with a moderate damage output each turn... they are one of the better anvils in the lizard army.

Yes, cannons and stone throwers are a real danger for them, but your scouts and rock droppers can hunt war machines more effectively now they have single profiles. It's similar to playing a dragon army; you also take units to protect your dragon. Now you have to do the same for your stegs.

Agnar the Howler
26-06-2010, 12:50
I think i'll need to pick up one or two more stegs then, as my EotG barely survived most 2k games, even with a Slann in the army. He just drew so much cannonfire and war machine fire that he either got the priest blown off his back or got killed himself and left the priest in the open, his burning alignment never did much damage either.

With cannons and stone throwers getting more accurate, I can see him going down a lot quicker than he used to (used to be crippled around turn 3), so he'll either be relying on my LoLife Slann or I need a second steg to draw some fire and add some more support; especially since I have banned Terradons from my lists, so i'm relying upon 10 chameleons to kill off the war machines.

TheDireAvenger
26-06-2010, 14:00
I think i'll need to pick up one or two more stegs then, as my EotG barely survived most 2k games, even with a Slann in the army. He just drew so much cannonfire and war machine fire that he either got the priest blown off his back or got killed himself and left the priest in the open, his burning alignment never did much damage either.

With cannons and stone throwers getting more accurate, I can see him going down a lot quicker than he used to (used to be crippled around turn 3), so he'll either be relying on my LoLife Slann or I need a second steg to draw some fire and add some more support; especially since I have banned Terradons from my lists, so i'm relying upon 10 chameleons to kill off the war machines.

Isn't this going to be a worse problem now? It'll be much easier to get the Skink Priest killed if the Steg ever gets into combat and IMHO I feel buying a EotGs JUST to stay back and use magic is too expensive for a non-combat unit. That's what Slann are for.

Agnar the Howler
26-06-2010, 14:06
It'll be much easier to get the Skink Priest killed if the Steg ever gets into combat

I never said he wasn't going to get into combat?

Naestran
27-06-2010, 15:46
I still think that stegadons will be good. On the charge they will still cause a lot of casualties, d6 srength 6 impact hits on top of normal attacks and then the stomp attacks will chew through even elite infantry pretty quickly. The stegadon is still a giant dinosaur though and thats why I'm gonna take some
:D

PurchasedPig
27-06-2010, 17:57
Personally I still love Stegs. The problem a lot of people have is that they find it harder to break ranked infantry - mainly due to steadfast.

The good thing is that Stubborn units are NOT unbreakable - just harder. Combine it with a unit of 50 Skinks with Full Command for rank nullity and a banner and the combat is effectively won.

On a sidenote: Stegs Stubborn is awesome and thefact that it can use the generals leadership is more so but it is actually probably better to just use Steadfast Skinks for that. They would get the exact same Ld9 Cold-blooded Stubborn with re-rolls from a BSB Slann within 12" as a Steg would.

-PurchasedPig-

WarmbloodedLizard
27-06-2010, 18:53
I didn't like (i.e. they were weak unless you took 3+) stegs that much in 7th. I found only the EotG and the ancient (without chief!) really playable.
With 8th ed everything gets worse, so I probably won't field any stegs anymore. maybe an ancient now and then (especially, if the BPs have also quickshot).

Oberon
27-06-2010, 19:05
O_o what kind of gunline did you play against if stegs were bad? Or some kind of dwarven "static cr8"-line of regiments? Unless there are cannons around, stegs last just as long (or longer as I think there's no rule that allows every rank shoot at them anymore) as before, and hit 1d6 times more=double the damage. Sure, you'll have to bring a skink cohort along to negate steadfast, but at least you can't lose. There's few better tarpits than stegadons too. d6 impact hits, d6 thunderstomp attacks, few skinks and the dino itself, and if/when it doesn't die, ld9 cold-blooded with rerolls and stubborn to hold the line... Come on now.

Of course, I play knights without any ranks or warriors with only 1 rank, so in my point of view stegadons are awesome. Hellcannons at least used to deny armour saves when they hit...

WarmbloodedLizard
27-06-2010, 19:31
O_o what kind of gunline did you play against if stegs were bad? Or some kind of dwarven "static cr8"-line of regiments?

Of course, I play knights without any ranks or warriors with only 1 rank, so in my point of view stegadons are awesome.

Indeed, I often play against dwarves. :D so I probably give the stegs too little credit, while your view of them is distorted into the other direction :P

Vsurma
27-06-2010, 19:34
I didn't like (i.e. they were weak unless you took 3+) stegs that much in 7th. I found only the EotG and the ancient (without chief!) really playable.
With 8th ed everything gets worse, so I probably won't field any stegs anymore. maybe an ancient now and then (especially, if the BPs have also quickshot).

The steg tends to stay alive due to its T6, not its 4+ or 3+ save, that hasn't changed.

The enemy getting more S3 and S4 shots isn't the end of the world for stegs.
All cannons doing D6 does hurt I give you that but a lore of life slann is a decent choice for lists with stegs and krox etc.
Only dwarves benefit from this so its not a game changing thing (and DOW if anyone plays them)

Any Strength wounding on a 6 might make some S2 shooters like those ogre army halfings better but it's not the end of the world.

Now as for hitting power. With the stomp attacks thrown in, a steg now does the same amount of damage when NOT charging that it did in 7th WITH the charge.

If you actually get the charge that is another D6 hits thrown in.

Now the enemy won't break but with those stomp attacks, does it matter?

Most of the time the enemy needs 6s to wound you, you need 2s to wound them, you still can't hit the broad side of the barn but impact hits and stomp hits don't require you to use your ws. Bonus

The slann can heal.

What is the problem? Initially I thought that the enemy not breaking would be a huge problem but seeing as you get the same attacks in 8th without the charge as you did in 7th with, I don't really see a problem. The stegs will be killing enemies that have a hard time kill them back!

S4 and below do little to stegs.

Ramius4
27-06-2010, 19:39
Why the hell are people freaking out about cannons!? There are literally two armies in the entire game that use them...

Having used them 3 times now with 8th rules they kick ass just as much as before. Thunderstomp attacks pretty much means that every Stegadon essentially just got the warspear against infantry and cavalry.

Where before you could charge a unit and have a 50/50 chance of winning, now I'd say it's more like 70/30. You won't break ranked up infantry, but you WILL grind it down to powder within a few turns as long as you survive.

Vsurma
27-06-2010, 20:29
Why the hell are people freaking out about cannons!? There are literally two armies in the entire game that use them...

Having used them 3 times now with 8th rules they kick ass just as much as before. Thunderstomp attacks pretty much means that every Stegadon essentially just got the warspear against infantry and cavalry.

Where before you could charge a unit and have a 50/50 chance of winning, now I'd say it's more like 70/30. You won't break ranked up infantry, but you WILL grind it down to powder within a few turns as long as you survive.

Indeed, though a few more have access to bolt throwers which have a similar function, I know in 7th I won a lot more games when I denied said units anything good to shoot at.

With 8th I think the stegs will come back, at least with a life slann which I wish to try.

Ramius4
27-06-2010, 20:38
Indeed, though a few more have access to bolt throwers which have a similar function, I know in 7th I won a lot more games when I denied said units anything good to shoot at.

With 8th I think the stegs will come back, at least with a life slann which I wish to try.

Bolt throwers haven't changed except that they'll no longer have a +1 to shoot at you.

I did the life Slann yesterday. It was alright, nothing spectacular though.

Once you've got Throne of Vines going it's nice, since you then ignore miscasts on a 2+ and it remains in play. You can then fearlessly throw gobs of dice at spells to try and overwhelm the enemies' dispel attempts.

Sparowl
27-06-2010, 21:52
I did the life Slann yesterday. It was alright, nothing spectacular though.

What I found helping Stegs was the "Everytime I cast a spell, I get to heal a wound off a model within 12 inchs" from life. I've taken a steg from 1 wound left on his profile to full life in one magic phase. I also threw +4T on him at the same time. So rather then just S3 and S4 needing 6s to wound, EVERYTHING needed 6s to wound.

I'd like to throw Shield of Thorns on him sometime and ram him into a unit of Swordsmen or Elves. 2d6 S4, d6+1 S6, 3 S6, 5 S3, then d6 S6 at the end of combat? That'll probably decimate a unit pretty quick.

Change out of the mindset of flank charges breaking units, and into the mindset of killing models, and the steg with thunderstomp becomes pretty good. Excellent Tarpit that is going to slowly kill off the unit.

Pavic
27-06-2010, 23:16
Yes, cannons and stone throwers are a real danger for them, but your scouts and rock droppers can hunt war machines more effectively now they have single profiles. It's similar to playing a dragon army; you also take units to protect your dragon. Now you have to do the same for your stegs.

I don't agree with this. Sure, one now only has to deal three wounds to the artillery piece to kill it, but all shooting will be hitting the T7 of the machine. We are just fortunate that everything is wounded on a six now. That being said, Chameleon Skinks may be the way to go now instead of Terradons, as their ability to double tap, combined with the likely errata of quickshot for blowpipes, will make Chameleon Skinks very nice, not to mention that they will not take up valuable special slots anymore.

On the issue at hands, I think Stegs are just as viable as before. Sure, Cannons are going to hurt more than they did, but don't forget, Stegs will effectively be in combat on turn 2 now. With a first turn march of 12" and an average charge of 13", it should be in combat more quickly then in previous editions. I have played a few games of 8th now, and even though shooters now fire in two ranks, the additional speed that infantry gained with charging really negates any real benefit shooters may have received. In the case of M6+ units, this is even more true.

In regards to combat, it is true that Stegs are going to be more of a support unit now, either working in concert with another Steg or infantry blocks (A 6 model Krox unit would be great for this), especially to if they plan on getting into combat turn 2, but even so, they are still a perfectly valid and useful army choice (primarily due to the addition of Thunderstomp). Also, once they get into the enemy line and can get some flank/rear charges, they are definitely going to be effective.

Lastly, the one Steg that I think might be able to go it alone against the front of a ranked infantry unit is the Chief on Steg with Lance. 2D6 impact hits, combined with all the attacks from the crew, plus the D6 Thunderstomp, is going to cause some serious damage to any unit.

Ramius4
28-06-2010, 03:09
What I found helping Stegs was the "Everytime I cast a spell, I get to heal a wound off a model within 12 inchs" from life. I've taken a steg from 1 wound left on his profile to full life in one magic phase. I also threw +4T on him at the same time. So rather then just S3 and S4 needing 6s to wound, EVERYTHING needed 6s to wound.

And that's exactly what I tried to do. My opponent had a level 4 too, so he shut down most of my spells. Even with Focused Rumunation, you need that second dice for the winds of magic to give you more than just a dice or two over what the opponent has for dispelling. That, and I only was able to channel a single dispel dice the entire game, while my opponent got several.

Counting on something as fickle as magic to keep them going isn't going to work all the time. Glad it did for you though.


Lastly, the one Steg that I think might be able to go it alone against the front of a ranked infantry unit is the Chief on Steg with Lance. 2D6 impact hits, combined with all the attacks from the crew, plus the D6 Thunderstomp, is going to cause some serious damage to any unit.

If you think that's the only way you can stand against the front of infantry is to rely on the warspear I think you need to play a few games of 8th first.

Thunderstomp attacks are meant to grind the opponent down over the course of a few turns. Even with the warspear, you're not likely to break even a 25 strong block of infantry.

That's the key thing to take with large monsters in 8th. They're not going to break blocks of infantry on their own. Supporting attacks is the name of the game.

Vsurma
28-06-2010, 05:37
I think the steg lance is sort of pointless this edition.

It was great in the last edition as for 100pts you could pretty much double the attacks of an ancient steg. 2d6 hits from impact rather than 1d6. (then 3 ws3 s6 hits from the steg that never hit anything)

Now we already get 2d6 hits from a normal ancient for 275pts (though I might favor the younger cheaper stegs 235pts).

Do you really want to pay 100pts to add 50% effectiveness to a 235pts steg only on the charge while making it an even greater target for warmachines?

Taking another steg seems the superior choice at least when your talking about the normal steg, lance almost never worth it. It is a little better for the ancient but same deal applies. 100pts for an extra d6 impact hits when its already getting 2d6 AND you know the enemy won't break. The next round the enemy gets into CC with you and takes out said lance fairly easily.

Lance has really lost out on effectiveness with the new stomp attacks coming in for free.