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View Full Version : DoC vs. WoC 8th Ed 2250pts Summary



lelandchaska
26-06-2010, 04:11
My WoC got completely, handedly massacred by DoC in 8th Ed rules. God help us all. Thought you all might like to see how.

Lists:

DoC:
57 Bloodletters (horde)
6 Flamers
6 Flamers
Herald of Khorne (Juggernaut)
Skulltaker
Bloodthister (Obsidian Armor, Flaming Sword)

WoC:
20 Warriors (MoT, Shield, Music, Stand, Banner vs. Shooting)
40 Marauders (MoK, Great Weapon, Music, Stand)
6 Dragon Ogres (Great Weapons)
2 Hellcannons
Wulfrik
Deamon Prince (MoT, Lvl 4, Tendrils, Breath Weapon)

Setup:
Four hills around the outskirts, two woods in the middle of the board.

Deployment:
Bloodletters (Skulltaker, Herald) - Flamers - Bloodthirster - Flamers
vs.
Hellcannon - Hellcannon - Warriors - Deamon Prince - Dragon Ogres

DoC Turn 1:
My opponent marched forward with the Flamers, Bloodthirster, and took Skulltaker out of the unit and marched forward. One unit of Flamers shot at Deamon Prince, not doing a wound, other shot at Dragon Ogres doing five wounds.

WoC Turn 1:
No Wulfrik this turn. Charged Bloodthirster with Warriors, got in on his flank (he and Skulltaker were headed for Hellcannons). Moved Dragon Ogres up behind trees for some cover from shooting while lining up for charge next turn on Flamers. Flew Deamon Prince over to try Gateway on either Flamers or Skulltaker. Rolled 6 +1 for magic, no channeling. Got off a Gateway on Skulltaker, but failed to wound (5 hits S5). Killed a Flamer with a Flickering Fire. Hellcannons both shot at Skulltaker and missed with both. Bloodthirster killed 4 warriors and took no wounds back, but they held with steadfast.

DoC Turn 2:
Skulltaker attempted to charge Deamon Prince but missed by an inch on the dice. Flamers both made their leadership and marched around Dragon Ogres taking away line of sight for the charge. Bloodletters stayed back in his deployment zone with back to the table edge, so Wulfrik could not get behind his lines. Flamers shot at dragon ogres and did five wounds. Bloodthirster did 3 more wounds to warriors, they did 1 wound back and then held with steadfast again.

WoC Turn 2:
Reformed Dragon Ogres to line up flank charge on Bloodthirster/Warriors battle. Wulfrik failed to show up again. Deamon Prince shifted around to take away charge arcs. Rolled a 3 +1 for power dice. Got off another Gateway on Flamers but only killed one. Killed 3 more Flamers with 2 shots from the Hellcannons. Bloodthirster killed 4 more warriors, taking them down to no additional ranks. They fled. Bloodthirster did not pursue, instead leaving barely enough LOS to charge my Deamon Prince next turn.

DoC Turn 3:
Bloodthirster charged Deamon Prince. Flamers made both leadership checks again, and marched out of the way of any trouble. Bloodletters still sat back and watched. Skulltaker charged a Hellcannon. Flamers shot at Dragon Ogres, doing only a couple wounds. Bloodthirster and Deamon Prince failed to wound each other, Deamon Prince made his leadership. Skulltaker wounded the Hellcannon but took nothing back.

WoC Turn 3:
Dragon Ogres charge Bloodthirster. Warriors rally. Wulfrik still does not show up (rolled 3 2s in a row). Roll 7 + 1 for magic. Get another Gateway off on Flamers and kill only one (at this point, only 4 flamers in one unit, and only 3 in the other). Bloodthirster kills Deamon Prince outright (bad, bad saves) and takes 1 wound from Ogres. Dragon Ogres flee but are not caught by Bloodthirster. Skulltaker get a 2nd wound on the same Hellcannon.

DoC Turn 4:
Bloodthirster charges the rallied Warriors. Flamers move around to shoot at fleeing Dragon Ogres. Bloodletters still stay put in his deployment zone. Bloodthirster completely wipes the warriors, overruns into fleeing Dragon Ogres and catches them. Skulltaker gets a killing blow on the Hellcannon. We can't decide whether it should work, but let it happen.

WoC Turn 4:
Wulfrik comes on table. Place him in my deployment zone halfway between Skulltaker on one side and Bloodthirster and Flamers on the other. Leave the unit with Wulfrik who lines up a charge on Skulltaker (his hated foe this game). Marauders wheel towards Flamers and Bloodthirster. Hellcannon hits Bloodthirster for 2 wounds taking him to 3 total.

DoC Turn 5:
Bloodthirster turns around to face Marauders. Flamers line up to shoot Marauders. Skulltaker turns around to face Wulfrik. Bloodletters stay put. Flamers kill 8 Marauders.

WoC Turn 5:
Wulfrik charges Skulltaker. Marauders charge one unit of Flamers rolling 12 on charge dice to make it, take 5 wounds on stand and shoot. Marauders take several wounds but do 4 wounds back to the 3 Flamers. Bad leadership roll kills the third Flamer. Hellcannon shoots Bloodthirster with a second direct hit and kills him! Skulltaker gets an easy killing blow on Wulfrik.

DoC Turn 6:
Flamers shoot at Marauders, killing a handful more. Skulltaker charges the other Hellcannon and gets another killing blow. Bloodletters never move one time the entire game.

Summary:
The DoC army got a massacre against me with only Bloodthirster, Skulltaker, and two units of Flamers. The Bloodletters and Herald never moved one time the entire game. The Flamers are incredibly powerful with the march and shoot. The lack of 360 LOS didn't seem to matter at all. The Bloodthirster was a beast with the stomp attacks added in.

TheSanityAssassin
26-06-2010, 05:22
Ow. The fact that he massacred you without moving...well...probably half of his army is just brutal. And I don't know what in your list could have got through those 'Letters anyways. I really doubt the days of Daemon domination are over.

Kerill
26-06-2010, 16:05
I'm not sure this is a good test to be honest. Your second largest unit was out of the battle for most of the game because you took Wulfrik. You had no hounds to screen your units with (incl. the huge unit of dragon ogres) or anything to hunt flamers with.

First turn you flank charged the thirster and he killed four. You still had 2 ranks, flank charge and a banner. With musician how come you were testing for steadfast instead of him testing for instability?

Thanks for the report, but it seems you lost largely du to the fact that he had a very strong list with all the strongest options whilst you had a distinctly less powerful list. He ven had more deployment drops.

VladtheLad
26-06-2010, 22:01
WoC Turn 1:
Bloodthirster killed 4 warriors and took no wounds back, but they held with steadfast.

DoC Turn 2:
Bloodthirster did 3 more wounds to warriors, they did 1 wound back and then held with steadfast again.



I don't have the new 8th edition rules but I know you get +1 cr bonus from charging.
So if he killed 4 you should have 2ranks+1 banner+1 flank??+1 charge=5 5-4warriors killed=1. He takes a leadership test at 7, instead of you taking one.

Also he killed 3 and you did 1 back. 1rank+1wound+1flank+1banner=4 4-3 warriors killed=1 he takes another leadership test at 7.

If you don't get a flank bonus its a draw both times, right?

Aluinn
27-06-2010, 08:55
This really makes consider taking a Lore of Light Wizard Lord as standard :).

Ah but seriously, in addition to what everyone else said (and two foregone instability tests could have been game-changing), it looks like leland had some pretty bad rolls there; the ones for Wulfrik I'm sure were especially damaging to his chances. All in all I'm not overly terrified of Daemons yet. Bloodthirsters are of course super scary but, well, they're Bloodthirsters and something would be horribly wrong if they weren't.

Gonzoyola
27-06-2010, 09:07
So I haven't bothered to realize yet, is there no minimum limit of numbers of core units now? or just the percentage?

lelandchaska
27-06-2010, 17:06
I don't have the new 8th edition rules but I know you get +1 cr bonus from charging.
So if he killed 4 you should have 2ranks+1 banner+1 flank??+1 charge=5 5-4warriors killed=1. He takes a leadership test at 7, instead of you taking one.

Also he killed 3 and you did 1 back. 1rank+1wound+1flank+1banner=4 4-3 warriors killed=1 he takes another leadership test at 7.

If you don't get a flank bonus its a draw both times, right?

We mistakenly relied on the rumor that Terror causers got +2 to combat rez, we neglected to confirm this with the book until yesterday.

Knifeparty
27-06-2010, 17:22
No offence but you kinda brought a knife to a gunfight.

Nothing in your list is particularly powerful, not saying thats a bad thing, but are you really suprised at the outcome?

Your army should have been rank after rank of either Warriors of khorne with halberds for super killy power, or Warriors of Tzeentch with shields for a 3+/5+ in combat (mark of Tzeentch stacks with parry wardsave). Coupled with a gigantic unit of choosen with halberds, banner of rage, mark of tzeentch and 1 or 2 warshrines to ensure that you have 3+ wardsave/stubborn.

Don't kid yourself man, WoC are super powerful with this new edition. Chosen and Warriors are crazy powerful fighting in 2 ranks with step up now.

lelandchaska
27-06-2010, 17:40
No offence but you kinda brought a knife to a gunfight.

Nothing in your list is particularly powerful, not saying thats a bad thing, but are you really suprised at the outcome?

Your army should have been rank after rank of either Warriors of khorne with halberds for super killy power, or Warriors of Tzeentch with shields for a 3+/5+ in combat (mark of Tzeentch stacks with parry wardsave). Coupled with a gigantic unit of choosen with halberds, banner of rage, mark of tzeentch and 1 or 2 warshrines to ensure that you have 3+ wardsave/stubborn.

Don't kid yourself man, WoC are super powerful with this new edition. Chosen and Warriors are crazy powerful fighting in 2 ranks with step up now.

Well, if you look at the list, I did have a 20 block of Warriors of Tzeentch with hand weapon and shield. And I have since found out that they would have defeated the BT.

I'm surprised you are not a fan of the 40 block of Khorne Marauders.

Nonetheless, I agree with you that Chosen, Khorne/Tzeentch, Halberds, Warshrines = all good.

Kerill
27-06-2010, 18:37
Well, if you look at the list, I did have a 20 block of Warriors of Tzeentch with hand weapon and shield. And I have since found out that they would have defeated the BT.

I'm surprised you are not a fan of the 40 block of Khorne Marauders.

Nonetheless, I agree with you that Chosen, Khorne/Tzeentch, Halberds, Warshrines = all good.

Tzeentch warriors were fine. Double hellcannons is very good this edition. 40 Khorne marauders is very good- but 40 marauders gallavanting away on a ship in a game against Khorne Daemons (who will be coming at you) doesn't. Not sure about the dragon ogres either- 462 points? I think of the WOC monstrous infantry dragons ogres have decreased in usefulness relative to ogres and (especially) trolls compared to 7th when they were definitely the best monstrous infantry by a large margin.

But to be honest (apart from the warrior vs. bloodthirster issue which could have been crucial) this game was lost at deployment. If you had a few units of hounds/cheap troops at deployment stage you could have guaranteed at least another turn of shooting for both hellcannons by castling in a corner (And two hellcannons have 56% chance to hit the thirster on the head each turn) at the thirster/skull taker and another turn for gateway and other magic. The daemons had no choice but to come at you.

Also another mistake I just noticed was that skulltaker killing blowed the hellcannon. He can only killing blow large targets in a challenge and since he can't challenge a hellcannon, he can never killing blow it.

Deadboytat2
28-06-2010, 00:37
there is no min core but you do have to spend at 2250 at least 513(rounding up) points on core and have at least 3 non charater units with one lord or hero unit (refrance page 135 of the 8th ed book). to be honest the WoC book seems alot stronger then the DoC army book in 8th ed and aside from your bad dice rolling i do agree with what the others are saying in that you need to take a more beefed up and beardy list. not to say playing hard core beards out is for everyone but that was clearly the case for your deamons friend.

SevenSins
01-07-2010, 16:15
nice rep, though having the marauders in reserve all game did you in I think. As said by many already, no dogs?

Sygerrik
02-07-2010, 03:20
I am definitely seeing Throgg as a superstar this edition. In addition to being able to reroll stupidity with the BSB (making Troll armies more palatable), him and all of his buddies get Stomp attacks, rank bonuses at 3-wide, a second rank that can throw 9 attacks (if you're 3-wide) and the ability once per game to hit the "I win close combat" button with 2d6 automatic S5 no armor save allowed hits to the enemy.