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Macavity
26-06-2010, 23:54
So, not that anyone paid attention, but ever since the rumours of 8th started, I've been sure that there will be more support/resources for Legendary Battles. The success of the "bring your whole collection" aspect of 40k Apocalypse could not be ignored.

Well, I looked at the new rulebook on display at the store and, amid great explanatory diagrams, the magic spell lists everyone is obsessed with, the awesome scenarios, and that weird background information, what do I find? Rules for a 6 ORGAN GUN-ARMED DWARF SKYSHIP! (basically a zeppelin, but kills more orcs), on the back of that page was a similar detailed giant Chaos siege tower of some type (no organ guns=less attention paid). At this point, they are showing scratch-built models, but Forge World will eventually catch up.

Legendary Battles will be the Fantasy Apocalypse. All your armies PLUS new, super-powered options! I can't wait to see what the Lizardmen options look like!

I'm so happy I was right! :p


Edit:: Realized some of this is coming out in the Ogre Howdah thread, sorry.

meowser
27-06-2010, 00:37
Can anyone tell us what other war machines of epic proportions were in the book?
- Dwarfs: Gunship
- Warriors of Chaos: Altar
- Ogre Kingdoms: Howdah (not sure if this is from the book or just the sighting)

decker_cky
27-06-2010, 00:43
The forgeworld war mammoth was there too.

steppingonyou
27-06-2010, 01:09
ive been talking about this for a year. glad its a rumor now. wait till you see what the TK gets

shade3413
27-06-2010, 01:53
Also they obviously want you using the forge world dragon model for the lore of beasts great red dragon transformation..

Trains_Get_Robbed
27-06-2010, 07:03
TK?!?!?! I think I just got shafted on the coin flip. *Never flip a coin for an army you want. Brets or TK *flips* well Brets it is then with a templar theme.

shelfunit.
27-06-2010, 07:07
ive been talking about this for a year. glad its a rumor now. wait till you see what the TK gets

I shall assume it's a Sphinx or something - to be honest I'm just looking at the giant things each army has in the Warmaster range.

honorandglory
27-06-2010, 07:15
One of the Terrain pieces you can generate is a Sphinx. A hero within X (do not remember how far)inches of it takes an INIT test(For being asked a riddle) ,if failed lose a wound no save, if passed gain Devastating Charge,or Heroic KB or Loremaster(Death).

Trains_Get_Robbed
27-06-2010, 07:15
Warmaster?

shelfunit.
27-06-2010, 07:21
Warmaster?

Yup, the 10mm "version" of Warhammer - it's under specialist games on the site and includes a few big monsters not normally seen on a warhammer table.

EDIT: Although my memory seems to have failed me as the Sphinx is the only biggy that appears in Warmaster, not warhammer... Oh well back to my padded room...

Farsot
27-06-2010, 08:55
Glad to hear that they're planing to support the Legendary Battles more. It's a good place to field all them "if you build it.." units you always wanted to build and field like some White Lions Mounted on War Lions Cav. It's a bit sad that people in general cant just do that on their own, make things up , build them and try them out. This is what the hobby is about for me, the experimentation and the fun things that happen on the field of battle, not who actually wins or loses.

So we'll start hearing about the Fantasy Forge World bit soon then (after all the 8th edition buzz calmed down)?

Jedi152
27-06-2010, 09:06
I love the idea, but from GW it still just comes off as a 'buy more models' scheme.

Belakor
27-06-2010, 09:20
I love the idea, but from GW it still just comes off as a 'buy more models' scheme.

:rolleyes:

Great news about Legendary, and perfect for our group of players.

Thanks.

Denny_Crane
27-06-2010, 09:29
Buy more more more! Don't think just buy buy buy!

static grass
27-06-2010, 09:47
Buy more more more! Don't think just buy buy buy!

and this makes GW unique in the capitalist system?

NixonAsADaemonPrince
27-06-2010, 10:39
I love the idea, but from GW it still just comes off as a 'buy more models' scheme.

It's strange, anyone would think that GW are out to make money :eek:...

Nixon

Jedi152
27-06-2010, 10:42
Buy more more more! Don't think just buy buy buy!

It worked perfectly for Apocalypse.

ChaosPhoenix
27-06-2010, 11:01
If you like something, buy it. It's not pervert because it costs money.

Senbei
27-06-2010, 11:21
It worked perfectly for Apocalypse.

Well, yeah. But tank companies are cool and GW has been telling people to buy huge armies for 40k since they scrapped 2nd ed. 10 Russ tanks makes sense... 10 of those 'So rare only the greatest hero gets to ride one' dragons is just a little silly. Basicly, when you have the entire universe to fight over and billions of troops, you can do big stuff... WFB is just one world.

That said, almost makes me wish that I hadn't given away the few hundred zombies that I used to have.

Commissar Vaughn
27-06-2010, 11:22
Problem I have with both apocalypse and legendary battles is that they bring even more new rules to the table, when in order to have a cat in hells chance of ever finishing a game you really need less!

They are NOT rulesets for big games with thousands of models, they are better for a game involving a normal 2k army + half a dozen really big things.


GW keeps forgetting that it needs more detail in smaller games, but less in bigger!

agger
27-06-2010, 11:39
I'm not overly pleased by these rumors... If Legendary battles ends up being just remotely similar to apocalypse then we are talking failure... The Apocalypse concepts was great (who can resist rolling in tank companies???), but the execution was horribly embaresing! (sorry if people who disagree find such a harsh statement insulting, it is only my opinion ;)). It wasn't about fighting big battles, it was about placing everything on a table too small for the amount of miniatures and then rolling a lot of die... boring and uninspired :cries:

What they should have done was to downtone the emphasis on the single miniature (40k. is a skirmish game for god's sake!), and instead have borrowed some elements fro Epic... and most importantly, they should have encouraged people to use way way bigger tables and spend a lot more time!

Warhammer on the other hand, is of course more suited to bigger games, as it already is a battlesimilation system (I believe it is rougly believed to be 1:20 scale right?), so let's see how it goes...

NixonAsADaemonPrince
27-06-2010, 11:51
Warhammer on the other hand, is of course more suited to bigger games, as it already is a battlesimilation system (I believe it is rougly believed to be 1:20 scale right?), so let's see how it goes...

I agree with you there, but surely the scale is still about 1:64?

Nixon

Darsc Zacal
27-06-2010, 12:32
The scale being referred to is how many troops one model represents. agger doesn't mean the actual size of the model.

I'm not sure if it was 1:20 or 1:10 or if GW is still leaving the idea vague. I wonder if they mention it in the new book?

Tokamak
27-06-2010, 12:55
ive been talking about this for a year. glad its a rumor now. wait till you see what the TK gets

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1183166_99061207010_WMUndeadSphinxMain_873x627.jp g

NixonAsADaemonPrince
27-06-2010, 14:56
The scale being referred to is how many troops one model represents. agger doesn't mean the actual size of the model.

I'm not sure if it was 1:20 or 1:10 or if GW is still leaving the idea vague. I wonder if they mention it in the new book?

Fair enough, cheers for clarifying that. I also thought it was from 1:20 to 1:10, but any mention from the book would be useful.

Nixon

Tokamak
27-06-2010, 15:09
I think those scales are bogus, and the sixth edition agrees with me.

agger
27-06-2010, 16:09
I think those scales are bogus, and the sixth edition agrees with me.

How so? I think they are quite accurate?

phantomtie
27-06-2010, 16:12
The Forgeworld guys told me at the last gamesday Canada that all of Shagoth Ork stuff would be released for Fantasy.

Tokamak
27-06-2010, 16:22
How so? I think they are quite accurate?

one model represents exactly that, one soldier on the field. When I move one goblin I'm not moving ten or twenty goblins, when I'm firing one cannon, I'm not firing ten or twenty cannons.

Sharkboy
27-06-2010, 16:32
All the early editions stressed that it wasn't one for one, if that's how they state it for the later editions then I just wished they had called it fantasy skirmish instead, all the talk of vast armies/battles and the reality on the tabletop is poles apart that's why I was so pleased when they did Warmaster as that really captured the fluff of the Warhammer story.

Tokamak
27-06-2010, 16:36
All the early editions stressed that it wasn't one for one, if that's how they state it for the later editions then I just wished they had called it fantasy skirmish instead, all the talk of vast armies/battles and the reality on the tabletop is poles apart that's why I was so pleased when they did Warmaster as that really captured the fluff of the Warhammer story.

I wish I had the sixth edition with me as in the commentary section they point out that the scale is meant to be 1:1. As it should be.

As you said yourself, if you want to play big battles, either stock up on lots of units or play warmaster.

KalEf
27-06-2010, 16:41
well with the new "to wound" chart, they have given themselves some leeway to go crazy with the monster profiles. Though if it were up to me, I would have done the 6/2+, 6/3+ etc; instead of a straight every one wounds on a 6.

agger
27-06-2010, 17:00
I wish I had the sixth edition with me as in the commentary section they point out that the scale is meant to be 1:1. As it should be.

As you said yourself, if you want to play big battles, either stock up on lots of units or play warmaster.

Well, I'm sticking with the (at other editions) intended 1:20 (or whatever), Malekith showing up to kill mere 100 goblins? Nah... Dragons getting killed without sustained fire by lots of lots of people? Nah... :) each to his own ;)

Darsc Zacal
27-06-2010, 17:09
@Tokamak - Guess what? I pulled down my 6th Ed book, and thanks to some very muddy writing, we're both right.

Page 279 under Scale:

"In Warhammer each model represents a single warrior, monster, machine, or whatever, whilst an inch on the tabletop is equivalent to about five feet in real life"

That is certainly pretty clear, but is completely contradicted one paragraph later:

"The games designers reduced distances roughly in the proportion of 1" equals 10yards"

And then again the paragraph after that:

"Ten or twenty models in a game unit stand for a regiment of several hundred troops, and for this reason regiments manoeuvre and react as if they were larger formations."

I looked for this section in the 7th Ed book, but haven't found it yet. Same for my copy of 3rd. Like I said, I'm very curious what 8th has to say.

Gekiganger
27-06-2010, 17:28
@Tokamak - Guess what? I pulled down my 6th Ed book, and thanks to some very muddy writing, we're both right.

Page 279 under Scale:

"In Warhammer each model represents a single warrior, monster, machine, or whatever, whilst an inch on the tabletop is equivalent to about five feet in real life"


I always took that as a literal 'model is a model' so it was crystal clear that despite the game as a whole representing larger quantities of combatants, one plastic elf had 1 wound as per his profile, not 10 or 20 to coincide with the amount of elves he represented.

FB has been mentioned for as long as I remember as representing more than the models depict.

innerwolf
27-06-2010, 17:29
Well, I'm sticking with the (at other editions) intended 1:20 (or whatever), Malekith showing up to kill mere 100 goblins? Nah... Dragons getting killed without sustained fire by lots of lots of people? Nah... :) each to his own ;)

So ,when you field Malekith, should he be supposed to represent 10 Malekiths?
I don't like the inconsistenciy of people wanting units to represent more soldiers yet characters should be 1:1.

agger
27-06-2010, 17:43
So ,when you field Malekith, should he be supposed to represent 10 Malekiths?
I don't like the inconsistenciy of people wanting units to represent more soldiers yet characters should be 1:1.

Well each to his own (you do of course already know the answer to your qeustion ;)), but let me finish my side of this discussion with one last argument, since this debate shouldn't overtrow the point of this thread. If warhammer fantasy battles weren't ment to represent bigger battles than the models suggest, why does units then move as if they were much bigger than they are ;)

I personally do not see why people find it degrading that troops represents more than they show, but what do you know, people differ. When you say go play warmaster I say go play mordheim or SOB :D

Tokamak
27-06-2010, 18:07
Well, I'm sticking with the (at other editions) intended 1:20 (or whatever), Malekith showing up to kill mere 100 goblins? Nah... Dragons getting killed without sustained fire by lots of lots of people? Nah... :) each to his own ;)

Well in your case it would be 20 Malekiths showing up to kill 2000 goblins...:eyebrows:



why does units then move as if they were much bigger than they are ;)


A- because there are no different rules for different sizes
B- Are they really? Ever tried coercing a neat block of twenty people among a field? I mean, I know and I'm glad few people actually do that. But try to imagine it.

But yeah let's leave it, it's off-topic anyway.

Luthor
27-06-2010, 18:24
I feel that marching only twenty men in a block formation on an open field would be a death sentence. With a five man front there would be no use for it. A group of warriors just charging in a blob would be able to run circles around it, especially if the block was required to stay in formation. Though it is only a game so I don't see why people can't play the way they choose.

Sand
27-06-2010, 18:59
Well in your case it would be 20 Malekiths showing up to kill 2000 goblins...:eyebrows:




A- because there are no different rules for different sizes
B- Are they really? Ever tried coercing a neat block of twenty people among a field? I mean, I know and I'm glad few people actually do that. But try to imagine it.

But yeah let's leave it, it's off-topic anyway.
Nevertheless the 6th edition rulebook clearly states that models do in fact represent several troops each. I've got my own copy out at the moment, because I was pleasantly surprised when you mentioned that they'd apparently written something definite on the matter. It just seems that they actually conclude the opposite of what you thought, so I just wanted to point that out (although it turns out Darsc Zacal beat me to it).

kyussinchains
27-06-2010, 19:10
back on topic, I'm not sure I like the idea too much... I mean I like to play games with miniatures, not huge models the size of a small dog.... looking at the games of apocalypse, thanks to the masses of vehicles and superheavies, it all seems so utterly overcrowded.... there is no way two tanks would ever really get within a few tank lengths of each other.....

if they get the rules right, great, if they charge 30 for a rulebook to do it, I cry shameless rip-off....

I want forgeworld to make fantasy stuff dearly, but I really don't want to play a game with ever increasing, ludicrously sized monsters/war engines.... 8th edition is supposedly the edition of the footslogger, let us play with our soldiers and leave the stupidly big things to the 40k players.....

Trigger36
27-06-2010, 19:56
The players of Napoleonic wargaming, forefathers of modern wargaming, always concluded that models represented more than one troop. And it makes sense, because who really wants to paint a hundred musketeers to represent one company in an army that will consist of tens of thousands of men? That doesn't mean one Teclis is 20 Teclises or whatever, since Warhammer allows for some abstract thought. But look at real ancient/renaissance warfare and try to argue that 30 Spearmen is a good number for one unit.

For Legendary Battles I'd love to see the kind of dedication go in where it is a 1:1 ratio, but sadly it's just not possible. In the end the game is what you make of it though, we imagine tiny dinosaurs riding larger dinosaurs smashing into elves riding dragons, so why not imagine 1 figure representing 20 men? I think Warmaster is a much simpler and smoother system than anything Games Workshop could ever publish now, but I wait with bated breath.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
27-06-2010, 19:59
Well in your case it would be 20 Malekiths showing up to kill 2000 goblins...:eyebrows:

Well maybe there isn't a definite "1:20" scale for all things? Characters and monsters are 1:1, while monsters and cannons are the likes of 1:3, and then infantry and cavalry are 1:10. This is just plucking numbers out the air, but it demonstrates the concept.

But anyway, this is off topic, I myself enjoy playing with large models and very enjoy the likes of apocalypse, yes it is crowded first of all but after a couple of turns you should find some space opening up ;).

Nixon

innerwolf
27-06-2010, 20:06
Well maybe there isn't a definite "1:20" scale for all things? Characters and monsters are 1:1, while monsters and cannons are the likes of 1:3, and then infantry and cavalry are 1:10. This is just plucking numbers out the air, but it demonstrates the concept.


I like consistency in the game, but as it's really off-topic I will also leave that topic.

Neth
27-06-2010, 21:15
After a quick read of the legendary battles section of the rulebook, it seems to me that they are leaving most of the decisions to us. Pick a major battle from an army rulebook and attempt to create the same fight or create our own scenario with custom rules etc. They have a few big units mentioned and one detailed fight they played out but I don't see why we would have to follow or use things they mention. Personally I think it's cool that they are acknowledging larger battles.

Alltaken
27-06-2010, 21:35
My mind shouts in joy at the idea of the THUNDER LIZARD!!!!!

steppingonyou
27-06-2010, 23:12
i know that more than a few senior GD's at GW love seige. it wouldnt surprise me one bit if we saw a loose setting, with each armies getting something big/impressive. probably all collected in a separate book/magazine. the plan calls for a new edition, then armybooks. with splash realases now and then. expect books in the splashes.

i realize this was also posted in a differnt thread. but it is relevent in both

Halelel
27-06-2010, 23:58
Hmm, this is an interesting concept and the new legendary units in the book sound quite interesting.

This could also give hope to those obscure armies/monsters that people clamor for. Such as Araby war elephants, Sky Titan giant models, etc.

Also, could be good news for Chaos Dwarf players as the huge daemon-infused war machines could be something that intrigues FW and could promote the creation of a new Chaos Dwarf army book by GW.

P.S. On a little funny side note, I wonder what the O&G legendary unit would be? The only thing epic in scale I ever remember reading about in the army books was a giant tower pile of Orc "byproducts" (which could be quite easy to make with green stuff, ha)

decker_cky
28-06-2010, 03:31
I think I remember them using a Squiggoth in a fantasy battle report sometime.

Tokamak
28-06-2010, 10:33
Yeah squiggoths are part of the orc/k ecosystem, not a native species of a planet, so why not let them appear in the warhammer world?

My current orc infantry army is already trying to fit 140 orcs in 2000 points, going towards 3000 points will be welcome.

Urgat
28-06-2010, 13:41
8th edition is supposedly the edition of the footslogger,

I know I'm beating a dead horse there but... said who? Some people on warseer after reading some rumours. When you look at the various stuff released or said by GW, I think it can be summed with "bigger". And then you have my opinion on the subject if you can substract B from A :p


Well maybe there isn't a definite "1:20" scale for all things?

There's no maybe, that's how it is. Just take the scale of the minis, the scales of the range, their speed, etc. There's not one scale to rule them all and in darkness bind them, obviously.


i know that more than a few senior GD's at GW love seige. it wouldnt surprise me one bit if we saw a loose setting, with each armies getting something big/impressive. probably all collected in a separate book/magazine. the plan calls for a new edition, then armybooks. with splash realases now and then. expect books in the splashes.

i realize this was also posted in a differnt thread. but it is relevent in both

I do hope they do some units with sieges in mind. Some armies are very boring with sieges, bretonians for instance, or vampire counts defending.


Yeah squiggoths are part of the orc/k ecosystem, not a native species of a planet, so why not let them appear in the warhammer world?

Because they're lame.

kyussinchains
28-06-2010, 18:44
I know I'm beating a dead horse there but... said who? Some people on warseer after reading some rumours. When you look at the various stuff released or said by GW, I think it can be summed with "bigger". And then you have my opinion on the subject if you can substract B from A :p

actually my own opinion having read and considered the rules updates from the various rumour threads which are now mostly confirmed... big blocks of infantry will be the main feature of the game I'm guessing, and I have no issues with that....

innerwolf
28-06-2010, 19:45
Beating a dead horse again(sorry), but I found an interesting concept for you to think about: If a character model represents 1 hero, and each model in a unit represents 20 men, what happens when a hero fights a champion in a challenge? Is he fighting 20 champions at once?
Do the units have 20 musicians and 20 banner bearers?

Abstraction does weird things to the game.

Skullking
28-06-2010, 21:27
To any who have never played a 40k apocalypse game, my experience has been that those larger, more expensive (both money and points wise) units, are typically not what wins games in most cases. In fact, most of my friends who have none of these things actually tend to do better than those who do.

I attribute this to the fact that regular units can be easily bolstered by special data sheet formations, or stratagems which allow you to perform some amazing action. For instance, when playing a large game I was going up against some HUGE tyranids, and a massive ork tank. The person sided with my space marines had no fancy forge world bigness for his Tau, so he used his points on stratagems, and bought some orbital bombardments and such to hit the tanks and what not. I bought a chapter relic (a very powerful CC weapon) for my space marine commander. During the battle the orbital bombardment destroyed the large ork tank, and my commander slew a Heiradule (a REALLY big tyranid bug), in hand to hand (and then promptly got squished by a second one :( ).

So if legendary battles allows for such things it really does level the playing field without making you buy much more stuff (does anyone really have EXACTLY the amount of points they use every game of any of their armies?).

I for one am excited at the idea of fielding an army of dwarf heroes holding their own against a tide of greenskins (finally some use for my white dwarf models ;) ), or having my chaos mammoths plow into a huge army of empire soldiers! That is what I'd imagine legendary battles will be about 'LEGENDARY BATTLES'!

Ramius4
28-06-2010, 22:28
Abstraction does weird things to the game.

No. It only does wierd things to your imagination. ;)

innerwolf
28-06-2010, 22:32
No. It only does wierd things to your imagination. ;)

Thanks I've got one :rolleyes:

DjtHeutii
28-06-2010, 23:42
I am 100% behind large games and Legendary Battles. The only version of 40k I play is Apoc and as I already have about 25,000 points of Skaven I'm all set for Legendary Battles. :D I sure would like to buy some big Forgeworld stuff for the Skaven, though. ;)

Urgat
29-06-2010, 03:51
Beating a dead horse again(sorry), but I found an interesting concept for you to think about: If a character model represents 1 hero, and each model in a unit represents 20 men, what happens when a hero fights a champion in a challenge? Is he fighting 20 champions at once?
Do the units have 20 musicians and 20 banner bearers?

Abstraction does weird things to the game.

Ok, then imagine the scale is around power. Because it's a bit sad that during the great battle of XXXXX, Malekith on his great dragon killed 7 goblin warriors and 5 wolf riders. A champions a champion, he's the best of the best, he represents himself, he's that usually nameless badass who kills swathes of enemies during the movie then dies during the dramatic moment to show how nasty the enemy was. Maly on his lizard would eat him for breakfast (usually). The musician is a unit-wide effect, you can't kill him individualy, so who cares, he's, maybe, the comic relief dude with his friends. Same for standard. Your grand canon shooting in a massed unit of chaos warriors might, in "reality", kill a bit more than 4 dudes. Same for mister bloodthirster, he might kill more than 5 state troopers after he rushed right into their face howling like rage incarnate. It also might have taken a bit more than... her... about 14 snotlings to kill that bretonian lord back in 5th edition. I really don't mind it.

Son of Sanguinius
29-06-2010, 04:15
Urgat, if you were assaulted by 14 snotlins, would you survive? :)

And yes, before anyone asks, I'm well within my rights to assume he's a paladin or something.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
29-06-2010, 08:55
Ok, then imagine the scale is around power. Because it's a bit sad that during the great battle of XXXXX, Malekith on his great dragon killed 7 goblin warriors and 5 wolf riders. A champions a champion, he's the best of the best, he represents himself, he's that usually nameless badass who kills swathes of enemies during the movie then dies during the dramatic moment to show how nasty the enemy was. Maly on his lizard would eat him for breakfast (usually). The musician is a unit-wide effect, you can't kill him individualy, so who cares, he's, maybe, the comic relief dude with his friends. Same for standard. Your grand canon shooting in a massed unit of chaos warriors might, in "reality", kill a bit more than 4 dudes. Same for mister bloodthirster, he might kill more than 5 state troopers after he rushed right into their face howling like rage incarnate. It also might have taken a bit more than... her... about 14 snotlings to kill that bretonian lord back in 5th edition. I really don't mind it.

That's what I was thinking Urgat, it never made sense to me that these supposedly super heroes can only kill the likes of 5 goblins/slaves/state troopers a turn. So this method of abstraction makes it far more "realistic" (used loosely as the name of the game is "fantasy" after all) for me anyway.

Nixon

Tokamak
29-06-2010, 11:45
back on topic, I'm not sure I like the idea too much... I mean I like to play games with miniatures, not huge models the size of a small dog.... looking at the games of apocalypse, thanks to the masses of vehicles and superheavies, it all seems so utterly overcrowded.... there is no way two tanks would ever really get within a few tank lengths of each other.....

I want a combination of large blocks of footsloggers and stupidly big things. I love the difference in size.

Havock
29-06-2010, 11:51
The forgeworld war mammoth was there too.

How about a war mammoth with a hellcannon on top? :p

Artinam
29-06-2010, 12:25
It will probably include formation like units like from apocalypse to allow armies with no 'giant weapons' to have some kind of rules.

For Bretonnians who at best could have a massive Trebuchet or something for the rest they would have to rely on formations.

Other armies have much shinier options.

kyussinchains
29-06-2010, 12:45
I want a combination of large blocks of footsloggers and stupidly big things. I love the difference in size.

perhaps but if you read the fluff, and also think about it rationally, a giant is about as big as it gets.... otherwise it should be called a 'medium' or 'not really that giant at all'

when the most powerful daemons of the gods of chaos are around 20 feet tall, and similar for the dragon which according to the background are pretty much the two toughest things in the warhammer world, introducing stupidy huge gribblies just undermines that....

clearly I'm in the minority here, but if people really want to use huge formations and dozens of large monsters, there is always warmaster, which also has the advantage of not getting clogged up and slowing to a crawl..... most of the big 10k+ WFB games I've played are infuriatingly slow at times....

Urgat
29-06-2010, 14:01
Urgat, if you were assaulted by 14 snotlins, would you survive? :)

If I'm on a warhorse, with the blessing of a goddess, a magic armor and an enchanted blade, yes, I think I can say my chances should be rather good :)

Tokamak
29-06-2010, 14:35
clearly I'm in the minority here, but if people really want to use huge formations and dozens of large monsters, there is always warmaster, which also has the advantage of not getting clogged up and slowing to a crawl..... most of the big 10k+ WFB games I've played are infuriatingly slow at times....

Hence the 8th edition tries to solve that. For one the casualty rate is far higher in games.

VoodooJanus
29-06-2010, 15:02
I wonder what Wood Elves would get...

It's` a treeman, except BIGGER!

No but seriously, this looks like a bunch of fun!

enyoss
29-06-2010, 23:44
..... most of the big 10k+ WFB games I've played are infuriatingly slow at times....

Only when we used to have dozens of Dwarf warmachines! :)

I agree with you in principle about the larger models though. It's nice to have one on the table at most (e.g. the Gork seige tower in the White Dwarf battle report a while back), but having one on each side, or more, seems a bit like playing with toys rather than toy soldiers.

I found the move away from infantry and towards tank dominated armies in 40K since 2nd edition, exemplied by last month's battle report, to be a bit of a shame.

For me, legendary battles are about taking characters like Tyrion without feeling guilty, and watching him lead the charge with a unit of 20 odd silverhelms.

Ramius4
30-06-2010, 00:16
clearly I'm in the minority here, but if people really want to use huge formations and dozens of large monsters, there is always warmaster, which also has the advantage of not getting clogged up and slowing to a crawl..... most of the big 10k+ WFB games I've played are infuriatingly slow at times....

No, I agree completely. The few mega battles that I've participated in are so slow that it becomes boring.


Hence the 8th edition tries to solve that. For one the casualty rate is far higher in games.

Higher casualty rates do not = faster rules resolution though. Resolving the details of your games isn't going to be any faster. All that happened is the amount of dice being rolled got bigger. The inherent processes are the same.


For me, legendary battles are about taking characters like Tyrion without feeling guilty, and watching him lead the charge with a unit of 20 odd silverhelms.

Amen to that one.

MetalGecko23
30-06-2010, 00:31
perhaps but if you read the fluff, and also think about it rationally, a giant is about as big as it gets.... otherwise it should be called a 'medium' or 'not really that giant at all'

when the most powerful daemons of the gods of chaos are around 20 feet tall, and similar for the dragon which according to the background are pretty much the two toughest things in the warhammer world, introducing stupidy huge gribblies just undermines that....
Now I will admitt I about as fresh faced noob as it will get when it comes to WHFB (own models but am waiting for the plastics to catch up with 40k).

There was a picture of a Empire castle (or something) that had a cannon so big that it took a legion of horses to traverse it and a giant to load it. So clearly giants and daemons are not the biggest hitters in WHFB or you're just going to have to forget about those giant sea monsters the Dark Elves keep building castles on.

steppingonyou
30-06-2010, 00:43
the dwarfs have massive cannons and steamwork dragons........

Urgat
30-06-2010, 03:55
Higher casualty rates do not = faster rules resolution though. Resolving the details of your games isn't going to be any faster. All that happened is the amount of dice being rolled got bigger. The inherent processes are the same.

Come on, no half hourr spend guessing or measuring wheels to the millimeter will certainly have more impact than rolling 35 times a turn instead of 31 times because you managed 4 charges off :/


the dwarfs have massive cannons and steamwork dragons........

You fail to realise people on Warseer have no sarcasm meter :p (well, not sarcasm, but the right name eludes me).

twistinthunder
30-06-2010, 05:42
imagination?

Ramius4
30-06-2010, 05:48
Come on, no half hourr spend guessing or measuring wheels to the millimeter will certainly have more impact than rolling 35 times a turn instead of 31 times because you managed 4 charges off :/

If it took you a half hour to do those things, then I feel sorry for you. I've played 5 games of 8th now and noticed no difference whatsoever in the time it takes to play. It still takes us roughly 2 1/2 hours from setup to putting things away (6 turns) for a 2250-2500 point game.

wysematt2222
30-06-2010, 08:03
Ok, then imagine the scale is around power. Because it's a bit sad that during the great battle of XXXXX, Malekith on his great dragon killed 7 goblin warriors and 5 wolf riders. A champions a champion, he's the best of the best, he represents himself, he's that usually nameless badass who kills swathes of enemies during the movie then dies during the dramatic moment to show how nasty the enemy was. Maly on his lizard would eat him for breakfast (usually). The musician is a unit-wide effect, you can't kill him individualy, so who cares, he's, maybe, the comic relief dude with his friends. Same for standard. Your grand canon shooting in a massed unit of chaos warriors might, in "reality", kill a bit more than 4 dudes. Same for mister bloodthirster, he might kill more than 5 state troopers after he rushed right into their face howling like rage incarnate. It also might have taken a bit more than... her... about 14 snotlings to kill that bretonian lord back in 5th edition. I really don't mind it.

What doesnt make sense in this whole idea of 1:10 or 1:20 is the distancing. Given the 1" equals five feet, in the same space of a model (which for most models is less than 1 inch), we are expecting there to be 10 or 20 of its represented soldier. Have you ever tried to fit 20 people into a five foot square?

There is a contradiction going on with distances, because its obviously impossible to fit even 10 people in a five foot square, so the stated distance must be wrong. So lets say each inch equals fifteen feet, so 20 people could realistically rank up and fight with full gear, a regular charge in 8th edition is 7+movement, lets say 4 for a normal empire soldier. The average charge distance in real life terms would be 165 feet.

Running 165 feet in full gear while trying to maintain at least a semblance of a formation, I would be extremely surprised to see that done in less than 10 seconds. Some of the fastest men in the world run 120 feet in 4.5 seconds, without battle gear on. Now count to ten in your head, and imagine instead that you are charging someone, thats a lot of time to get tired, and much too much time for them to prepare.

It just doesnt add up any way you look at it, well, of course, unless you just count a model as a single guy.

Ramius4
30-06-2010, 08:11
It just doesnt add up any way you look at it, well, of course, unless you just count a model as a single guy.

As I tried to say earlier... The game functions fine no matter what the ratio is. It has no bearing whatsoever on game play. Therefore, the only issues it creates are in your own imagination. It's a non issue.

agger
30-06-2010, 09:33
@ I would be happy to keep on the discussion about scale, but shouldn't we take it somewhere else???


On the legendary battles. I agree wholeheartely with the people who states that in warhammer, we pretty much already haves seen it all... not that some of the lager stuff in the fluff isn't missing from the game, but compare it to the strenght of the models we already have... let's take Teclis, he should pretty much be one of the (at the least) 10 strongest single enteties in the current timeline of the warhammer world. No giant or big cannon should cause him much trouble, since he simply is that powerfull... now, what do we do with him? create new, much stronger rules for him explaining that in regular warhammer he is fighting with his hands tied to his back? please please don't :)

Urgat
30-06-2010, 13:22
If it took you a half hour to do those things, then I feel sorry for you.

You've never played against someone who took a couple minutes to try and guess range for each of his warmachines? I know that on warseer we only have cyborgs with laser eyes who can guestimate ranges perfectly in a microsecond, but the normal kind of people do exist too. I tell you playing these people will be much faster now.

snottlebocket
30-06-2010, 15:07
@ I would be happy to keep on the discussion about scale, but shouldn't we take it somewhere else???


On the legendary battles. I agree wholeheartely with the people who states that in warhammer, we pretty much already haves seen it all... not that some of the lager stuff in the fluff isn't missing from the game, but compare it to the strenght of the models we already have... let's take Teclis, he should pretty much be one of the (at the least) 10 strongest single enteties in the current timeline of the warhammer world. No giant or big cannon should cause him much trouble, since he simply is that powerfull... now, what do we do with him? create new, much stronger rules for him explaining that in regular warhammer he is fighting with his hands tied to his back? please please don't :)

For what it's worth magic is dangerous in warhammer. I'm sure Teclis has quite a few tricks up his sleeve that he wouldn't deem worth the risk unless it's a 'omg the worlds ending!' kind of scenario.

Ramius4
30-06-2010, 18:07
You've never played against someone who took a couple minutes to try and guess range for each of his warmachines? I know that on warseer we only have cyborgs with laser eyes who can guestimate ranges perfectly in a microsecond, but the normal kind of people do exist too. I tell you playing these people will be much faster now.

Only once in 17 years can I remember playing someone like that. My buddy Pete, but he was slow on everything. He got better as he learned the game, but man... Those first 3 months or so of gaming, it used to take 5 hours to get through a game with him.

Other than that, no.

KalEf
01-07-2010, 04:10
What doesnt make sense in this whole idea of 1:10 or 1:20 is the distancing. Given the 1" equals five feet, in the same space of a model (which for most models is less than 1 inch), we are expecting there to be 10 or 20 of its represented soldier. Have you ever tried to fit 20 people into a five foot square?

There is a contradiction going on with distances, because its obviously impossible to fit even 10 people in a five foot square, so the stated distance must be wrong. So lets say each inch equals fifteen feet, so 20 people could realistically rank up and fight with full gear, a regular charge in 8th edition is 7+movement, lets say 4 for a normal empire soldier. The average charge distance in real life terms would be 165 feet.

Running 165 feet in full gear while trying to maintain at least a semblance of a formation, I would be extremely surprised to see that done in less than 10 seconds. Some of the fastest men in the world run 120 feet in 4.5 seconds, without battle gear on. Now count to ten in your head, and imagine instead that you are charging someone, thats a lot of time to get tired, and much too much time for them to prepare.

It just doesnt add up any way you look at it, well, of course, unless you just count a model as a single guy.

well then crossbows and longbows go from having an effective range of 350yards and being really accurate at 100 yards or less. to barely scraping by at 40 to 50 yards :eyebrows:

I don't know were the 10 seconds comes from? so all the movement in a game of warhammer happens within 2mins? If that is true, it is news to me.

Do I think a trained soldier could charge halfway down a football field... yes. I've had to "run" all the way to the other side with another dude on my back, without the aid of adrenaline. ;) True the armor was plastic, but the dude weighed a minimum of 150lbs. I have always thought 1 inch was about 15 feet.

At an inch equaling 5 feet a dragon should fit in my livingroom, the range of the weaponry makes no sense, and the entirety of the battle is fought in area the size of a large soccer field.

All in all, I agree with the poster who said characters and monsters should be (for the most part) individuals and infantry cav and such are x10 or 20. It makes the armies like Archaon's hoard make more sense as well.

Darsc Zacal
01-07-2010, 05:53
If you check my earlier post in this thread, I quote from the 6th Ed book where the game designers have it as 1" equals 10 yards. Which is I believe more for the purpose of weapon ranges and movement distances. That scale isn't meant to describe the size of an object. This is where one has to wrap ones head around the abstract. As for time passing, I haven't found anything about time ratios for battles.

Back on topic. Will I buy huge cool miniatures designed for armies I collect? YES!:D

Will I actually play large games where I could use the mini? Probably not. But I'll have the mini just in case cause you never know.;)

wysematt2222
01-07-2010, 06:01
I posted 10 seconds for the charge as a very aggressive guess to placate people who would have issue with a 20 second charge; which is what I think it would actually take personally. After participating in a number of large SCA battles, charging from more than 20 or 30 yards becomes painfully apparent as too long, and too tiring.

Remember, that running in armor is not simply about the weight, it has a lot to do with restricted movement and having small amounts of weight distributed at places the human body does not cope with easily.

2 minutes for an entire battle? Hardly, that would only be true if a battle was non-stop movement. A case where a charge immediately broke an opponent and there was no time spent forming ranks, moving those ranks, then pausing to wait for other units to reach designated points. Not to mention the time it actually takes to carry out an melee engagement.

Charges are by far the quickest part of any battle, with the majority of the time spent consisting of getting into position, and cleaning up afterward.

This is indeed off topic, so I will bow out of this fun little side-note and say that I look forward to 8th and being able to use my entire collection. It sounds fun and to be honest, I dont care if I complete a game or not, I dont play the game for the outcome, I play the game because its cool to have my toy soldiers fight my friends! It could only be better with more, right!? :D

KalEf
01-07-2010, 17:37
@Tokamak - Guess what? I pulled down my 6th Ed book, and thanks to some very muddy writing, we're both right.

Page 279 under Scale:

"In Warhammer each model represents a single warrior, monster, machine, or whatever, whilst an inch on the tabletop is equivalent to about five feet in real life"

That is certainly pretty clear, but is completely contradicted one paragraph later:

"The games designers reduced distances roughly in the proportion of 1" equals 10yards"

And then again the paragraph after that:

"Ten or twenty models in a game unit stand for a regiment of several hundred troops, and for this reason regiments manoeuvre and react as if they were larger formations."

I looked for this section in the 7th Ed book, but haven't found it yet. Same for my copy of 3rd. Like I said, I'm very curious what 8th has to say.

yep read it and agreed with:


I always took that as a literal 'model is a model' so it was crystal clear that despite the game as a whole representing larger quantities of combatants, one plastic elf had 1 wound as per his profile, not 10 or 20 to coincide with the amount of elves he represented.

FB has been mentioned for as long as I remember as representing more than the models depict.

a model is a dude + an inch equaling 5' and a model is 20 dudes and an inch is 30 feet seem pretty contradictory (though both work individually). So it would stand to reason, they apply separately. I then, read the first one to be used for game dynamics (easy to grasp/ interact with) and the second one to be used to represent the actual battle as a whole (accurate ranges and army sizes). I'm sure that's just me and this other guy though.

If no one wants to comment on the subject further, I will be done too.
-----------------
If we are getting a lot more crazy big stuff from FW for our big crazy battles, I have a question.
Any one who knows forgeworld 40k stuff: does GW put out an official set of rules often, for the ridiculous stuff they make. I read their rules for the war mammoth (maybe 3 years ago) and they were ott. Does GW step in and give official rules, point values, etc?... I suppose they did for the rhinox riders.

Tokamak
01-07-2010, 17:54
They didn't take it really serious because of the low range of fantasy models. If they put more resources into it you can expect an Imperial Armour for Fantasy.

Lars Porsenna
01-07-2010, 19:19
a model is a dude + an inch equaling 5' and a model is 20 dudes and an inch is 30 feet seem pretty contradictory (though both work individually). So it would stand to reason, they apply separately. I then, read the first one to be used for game dynamics (easy to grasp/ interact with) and the second one to be used to represent the actual battle as a whole (accurate ranges and army sizes). I'm sure that's just me and this other guy though.


Not contradictory, but you have to know something about scale.

The statement that 1"=5' has to do with figure scale. Thus 1" = scale 60", thus the figure scale is 1/60th scale. Thus a 28mm figure will come in at 5'6" or pretty close to the modern average of 5'8" worldwide. Many GW figures are closer to 30mm, or a scale 5'10" tall.

Incidentially this is the scale D&D uses.

In the historicals gaming side of things, many manufacturers build vehicles (such as tanks) to go with 28mm figures and they chose...1/56 scale (extra fudge factor for base height).

The other figure, that 1" = 10yds, refers to ground scale (and if your curious, ground scale equals 1/360th scale, or slightly smaller than Epic WH40K scale, and close to the scale of 1/350th model ships). Playing a fantasy game with microarmor sized 5mm figues is not nearly as spectacular or visually appealing as playing with 28mm figures, so we do the latter (but if you want to do the former, it makes for some spectacular looking games in themselves).

Incidentially, 1 figure equals 20 renders a frontage per figure of 5 troops, and a depth of 4. If you take all 4 ranks in your regiment, this gives a depth of 16 troops. Many ancient and medieval armies had a depth between 8 ranks and 16. It also works if you use a scale of 1 figure = 16 (the scale I assume, based on what we worked out for WAB).

Re: the question of what does as hero represent. I admit I've played over the last 12 years a WHOLE lot more WAB than WHFB, but we've had to come to grips with the same problems. In the former, I usually just assume that hero equals Malekith and his personal bodyguard or retenue, if you prefer consistency. Or you could assume that heroes just get they bye and need not adhere to that level. So if Malekith kills 5 models, it could either mean that he and his retenue wipes out 100 troops, or the Big M kills 100 troops by himself (making him that much more epic).

Finally, why does GW refer to units as Regiments if the unit consists of a mere 24 troops, as opposed to 480?

Damon.

Urgat
01-07-2010, 20:17
Playing a fantasy game with microarmor sized 5mm figues is not nearly as spectacular or visually appealing as playing with 28mm figures, so we do the latter (but if you want to do the former, it makes for some spectacular looking games in themselves).

If you want to do the former, there's Warmaster :)

Lars Porsenna
01-07-2010, 22:27
If you want to do the former, there's Warmaster :)

Warmaster is 10mm.

No, what I was talking about is mounting 6mm figures on the regular WHFB bases. I did a couple of "tests" for WAB, and they look cool en masse.

I actually didn't care for Warmaster...

Damon.

KalEf
02-07-2010, 05:51
Not contradictory, but you have to know something about scale.

The statement that 1"=5' has to do with figure scale. Thus 1" = scale 60", thus the figure scale is 1/60th scale. Thus a 28mm figure will come in at 5'6" or pretty close to the modern average of 5'8" worldwide. Many GW figures are closer to 30mm, or a scale 5'10" tall.

Incidentially this is the scale D&D uses.

In the historicals gaming side of things, many manufacturers build vehicles (such as tanks) to go with 28mm figures and they chose...1/56 scale (extra fudge factor for base height).

The other figure, that 1" = 10yds, refers to ground scale (and if your curious, ground scale equals 1/360th scale, or slightly smaller than Epic WH40K scale, and close to the scale of 1/350th model ships). Playing a fantasy game with microarmor sized 5mm figues is not nearly as spectacular or visually appealing as playing with 28mm figures, so we do the latter (but if you want to do the former, it makes for some spectacular looking games in themselves).

Incidentially, 1 figure equals 20 renders a frontage per figure of 5 troops, and a depth of 4. If you take all 4 ranks in your regiment, this gives a depth of 16 troops. Many ancient and medieval armies had a depth between 8 ranks and 16. It also works if you use a scale of 1 figure = 16 (the scale I assume, based on what we worked out for WAB).

Re: the question of what does as hero represent. I admit I've played over the last 12 years a WHOLE lot more WAB than WHFB, but we've had to come to grips with the same problems. In the former, I usually just assume that hero equals Malekith and his personal bodyguard or retenue, if you prefer consistency. Or you could assume that heroes just get they bye and need not adhere to that level. So if Malekith kills 5 models, it could either mean that he and his retenue wipes out 100 troops, or the Big M kills 100 troops by himself (making him that much more epic).

Finally, why does GW refer to units as Regiments if the unit consists of a mere 24 troops, as opposed to 480?

Damon.

well I'm glad 99% of what you wrote agrees with me! though saying each model represents only 1 trooper in one paragraph, and saying the same type of model represents 20 troopers in the next paragraph, is indeed contradictory (if they are referring to the same aspect of the game). That is why I said (and you said)... and that other dude said, they must be referring to separate aspects.

one being the actual model and what seems size appropriate for it (you called model scale) witch is useful for game dynamics.

the other being; what is being represented (you called ground scale). the actual distances on a real battle field. witch is where the 16~20 dudes a model fits in.

all of this, the guy said on page 2. Just abbreviated :D

My wife always says NO when she agrees with people too.
--------------------------
TY, I would buy a big monsters book. does any one know what format the giant spider rules are coming at us then?

Verm1s
02-07-2010, 19:36
There was a picture of a Empire castle (or something) that had a cannon so big that it took a legion of horses to traverse it and a giant to load it.

Ulric's Thunder, in Middenheim, and Thunderball.

http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Thunderball

Poor Thunderball. :cries:


Playing a fantasy game with microarmor sized 5mm figues is not nearly as spectacular or visually appealing as playing with 28mm figures

Fightin' werds.

Scarecr0w14
04-07-2010, 10:46
Id say this will see the skaven hellpit Abomb released with it! This should be fantastic.

cornonthecob
04-07-2010, 10:58
I had some general ideas for 'formations' and units.

Brets - Massive lance formation of grail knights led by the Green knight.
Empire - Massive artillery formation , possibly of untested weapons.
Dwarfs - Dwarf Juggernaut ( their version of a steam-tank it's a really old citadel model)
Orcs - Formation of giants, four or five of them.
Vampires - Giant made from zombies
Ogres - Skytitan
Skaven - Council of thirteen
Wood-elves - formation of treemen led by durthu ( march of the ents)
Elves - Dragon knights (riding actual dragons)

Scarecr0w14
04-07-2010, 11:09
Skaven would never put all their political leaders on the field! Nice idea though ;) Fo skaven it would be some stupidly insane warmachine or monster.

Skaven titan anyone :o

cornonthecob
04-07-2010, 11:22
Giant raygun ?

Maybe a individual model with a beefed up version of the fellblade , killing blow and a 2+ ward save ? To represent the council of thirteen using their pawn to kill enemy leaders.

Lord Mayor Of Y'ha-nthlei
04-07-2010, 13:31
Beefed up version of the fellblade? i thought the fellblade was supposed to be the very same one used to kill nagash.

cornonthecob
04-07-2010, 14:07
Beefed up version of the fellblade? i thought the fellblade was supposed to be the very same one used to kill nagash.

Yes , but the actual Skaven rules dont really represent that well . This would be a very expensive formation/character but it would practically be a one-man character killer.

horror
04-07-2010, 22:20
Goodness. GW got themselves a real cash cow in you people!

Ramius4
04-07-2010, 22:40
Yes , but the actual Skaven rules dont really represent that well . This would be a very expensive formation/character but it would practically be a one-man character killer.

What part of a Strength 10, D6 wounds, makes the enemy re-roll successful ward saves, and is so deadly that it can kill the wielder, doesn't represent the Fellblade? And how is that not a one-man character killer? :wtf:

cornonthecob
05-07-2010, 07:21
Self wounding , give him a ward save against it and then you've got yourself a nagash killer.

Druidic
06-07-2010, 17:45
Already play large battles on an 8ft table, have 4000 points of Skaven and the wife has some 6-7000 points of Empire. But still looking forwards to Legendary Battles.

As for Scale, block of 25 men, easy to move arround the field, turn, reform do all sorts with, blocks of 100-200, much harder but much more mobile then you would expect. At tewkesbury next week end we wil be on the field with a couple thousand troops, maybe a dozen cannon, 100 archers and a dozen or so Hand gunners. The battle takes around an hour and half with about an hour up front mustering and readying, VERY tiring, and your not fighting for long, and believe me a charge more then about 100 yards, absolutly soul destroying, your exhausted before you get even close to the other battle (incidentaly, large body of fighting men, gets split into "Battles" from which comes Bettalion and the word Battle itself!)

Bloody good fun thought :-)

Tokamak
06-07-2010, 18:12
Goodness. GW got themselves a real cash cow in you people!

I feel no need to justify that.

Lars Porsenna
06-07-2010, 18:27
At tewkesbury next week end we wil be on the field with a couple thousand troops, maybe a dozen cannon, 100 archers and a dozen or so Hand gunners. The battle takes around an hour and half with about an hour up front mustering and readying, VERY tiring, and your not fighting for long, and believe me a charge more then about 100 yards, absolutly soul destroying, your exhausted before you get even close to the other battle (incidentaly, large body of fighting men, gets split into "Battles" from which comes Bettalion and the word Battle itself!)

Bloody good fun thought :-)

Photos or it didn't happen! :)

Damon.

Gorbad Ironclaw
06-07-2010, 18:38
Self wounding , give him a ward save against it and then you've got yourself a nagash killer.

But it is meant to kill the person using it as well! It certainly wasn't the intention that the prince they armed with the sword should make it much further than cutting down Nagash. Giving someone a powerful weapon like this and then just let them walk off with it would be a really bad idea!

yabbadabba
06-07-2010, 18:47
Empire Brigade Loveliness :D

Steam Tank Panzer Kompanie
Grand Batteries of Canon/Mortars
Cavalry Wings
Tercio style Infantry Brigades
Rolling Musketry
Pistollier Caracoles
Hochland Long Rifle Skirmishers
Battlefield Fortifications
Wizard Conclaves with "Rainbow" Magic


Napoleonic style Divisions :evilgrin:

theorox
06-07-2010, 19:05
"Wizard conclaves with rainbow magic"? O.o

"Runesmith conclaves with Stronhold-sized Anvil". That's it. BOOM!!:D

Theo

Tokamak
06-07-2010, 19:40
"Wizard conclaves with rainbow magic"? O.o


Led by Ian Mckellen ;)

childofnurgle
06-07-2010, 19:45
At tewkesbury next week end we wil be on the field with a couple thousand troops, maybe a dozen cannon, 100 archers and a dozen or so Hand gunners. The battle takes around an hour and half with about an hour up front mustering and readying, VERY tiring, and your not fighting for long, and believe me a charge more then about 100 yards, absolutly soul destroying, your exhausted before you get even close to the other battle (incidentaly, large body of fighting men, gets split into "Battles" from which comes Bettalion and the word Battle itself!)

Bloody good fun thought :-)

I`ll be there, dirty Yorkist mercs.... Who`re you fighting with/for mate?

Druidic
07-07-2010, 11:33
Lars, plenty of pictures out there, google Black Bear Tewkesbury

Childofnurgle, messaged you, I fight with the Hussites "Heiliga Blut! Heiliga Stahl!, Huss, Zizska, TABOR!"

Santar
07-07-2010, 19:34
I hope it's better regulated than when I did tewkesbury last, far too many injuries when I was there but that was something like fifteen years ago now I guess.
Much more fun being on the Lancastrian side and going down fighting! ;)

I'm quite interested in the idea of massive warmachines in warhammer as a scratch builder and can see all sorts of possibilities if it goes along the same lines of apocalypse.
Far too many ideas for me to cope with if that is the case. :D

theorox
09-07-2010, 06:11
Led by Ian Mckellen ;)

No. Led by that "The price is right" Guy! :D What'shisnamesumtinsumtinsumtin...

Now THAT would be AWESOME!!! :evilgrin: :eek:

Son of Sanguinius
09-07-2010, 06:17
Bob Barker. You, sir, win the wtf award of the day.

_dandaman_
10-07-2010, 02:10
You, sir, win the wtf award of the day.

Theorox, quote this now; an award that prestigious deserves to go in your sig :D

Urgat
10-07-2010, 08:53
Topic locked in 3, 2...

Santar
10-07-2010, 12:53
I've just seen the dwarf airship rules on the GW site and I can really see the potential for this now.

someone2040
11-07-2010, 09:09
So I have to ask, as this topic seems somewhat appropriate (large battles), and no specific siege threads but...
How long have the Siege Battering Ram (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1620228&prodId=prod1140143) and Siege Tower (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1140139) been available to buy?
I don't think I've ever seen them in the past, not that I really look into the Warhammer bitz scenery section much... but I'm sure I would've done so in the past.

Maybe not news, maybe just my forgetful memory... but figured I'd bring it up and find out.

Urgat
11-07-2010, 09:14
They've been released with the siege supplement for 5th edition, it's been a while :p

yabbadabba
11-07-2010, 09:23
They've been released with the siege supplement for 5th edition, it's been a while :p True. Thats why I am not too bothered by the buildings rules in 8th, I fully expect a siege supplement with this edition :D
Although I also expect a new 75 castle to go with it so better buy the old one (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1300029&prodId=prod180001a) quick lol!

Urgat
11-07-2010, 10:35
Dunno, I've always considered it boring as hell. Though, truth be said, I'm not sure hell is boring :p

Avian
11-07-2010, 10:37
How long have the Siege Battering Ram (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1620228&prodId=prod1140143) and Siege Tower (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1140139) been available to buy?
12 years, give or take a few months. :p

BramGaunt
11-07-2010, 10:52
Wizard Conclaves with "Rainbow" Magic


This is wrong in... so many ways...

yabbadabba
11-07-2010, 12:48
This is wrong in... so many ways... As you have no idea what I am suggesting, I appreciate the constructive criticism.

@Urgat - I know it doesn't rock the creative juices but unusually for GW it is very pratical and good value. It hasn't changed price since '98 at least.

Urgat
11-07-2010, 13:39
This is true: even better , if I'm not mistaken, it got cheaper at some point.

Voss
12-07-2010, 00:11
So, anyway, this may be the best place for this, given the legendary angle and all.

With the whispers and rumours of an absolutely huge spider for O&G lurking about here and there, I was not particularly surprised to see one in the new rulebook. On page xiii, to be exact. Now, before anyone gets too excited, this looks exactly like a 3-up of the BfSP spider rider plastic model with a huge forest goblin banner/platform on its back. Its up in the right hand corner of the page, to the left of the giant skull and just in front of the squig drawn chariot.

It occurred to me to wonder if this was the source of the monstrous spider rumour.
Thoughts?

someone2040
12-07-2010, 00:24
12 years, give or take a few months. :p
Well... I know they've been around since Siege, but never saw them on the website. Guess I just overlooked them if they're been on the website all that time.

Stronginthearm
12-07-2010, 01:10
As one who plays legendary battles (no huge monsters just really big point battles) i can say they are alot of fun but not paticularly balanced, some armies just dont scale up well, if you can just enjoy the game its great to watch archaeon go toe to toe with thorgrim grudgebearer(thorgrim won STUNTIES FOREVER)

Avian
12-07-2010, 07:24
It occurred to me to wonder if this was the source of the monstrous spider rumour.
Thoughts?
No, it was not, the humongous spider is not speculation, it is coming.

yabbadabba
12-07-2010, 07:25
No, it was not, the humongous spider is not speculation, it is coming. As is the colossal glass, and the sheet of paper the size of a field to neutralise it.

Brother Enok
22-07-2010, 12:59
In terms of scale, for me 1 model is about 100 men, and a single character represents said character and his personal body gaurd. A warmachine is battery. This of course can create a problem of scale with buildings, but then I can change the scale at my whim. Thus is the power of imagination.

Sygerrik
22-07-2010, 16:54
As is the colossal glass, and the sheet of paper the size of a field to neutralise it.

The bane of a giant spider is, of course, a giant Garfield.

yashamaru38
01-08-2010, 05:47
Or the fist of gork...or is it Mork

Urgat
01-08-2010, 07:00
I would have said the foot, I step on the little buggers, I don't punch them :p

xalfej
27-08-2010, 09:16
I would have said the foot, I step on the little buggers, I don't punch them :p

And that is why you are not an orc god.

~xalfej

Chiron
31-08-2010, 01:11
ive been talking about this for a year. glad its a rumor now. wait till you see what the TK gets

Nagash :D

(texttexttext)

Trains_Get_Robbed
31-08-2010, 02:44
The monstrous spider rumor was first mentioned by me, mistakenly. (on warseer anyways) as I thought that steppingonyou was hinting at it with all his "rumors" so I spewed what I had learned. It turned out he wasn't -just throwing paint to a wall to see what stuck (according to godless- but I'm pretty sure it's safe to say its coming after Avian and Harry have backed it up since its inception. Not to mention the entire O & G book in the 1st/early 2nd quarter; and thats enough of that -it belongs in another thread at best.

Thats enough tom-rumorery for now -for me anyways.

Urgat
31-08-2010, 08:40
And that is why you are not an orc god.

~xalfej

Funny how the most powerful direct damage spells from both lores involve feet :shifty:


The monstrous spider rumor was first mentioned by me, mistakenly. (on warseer anyways) as I thought that steppingonyou was hinting at it with all his "rumors" so I spewed what I had learned. It turned out he wasn't -just throwing paint to a wall to see what stuck (according to godless- but I'm pretty sure it's safe to say its coming after Avian and Harry have backed it up since its inception. Not to mention the entire O & G book in the 1st/early 2nd quarter; and thats enough of that -it belongs in another thread at best.

Thats enough tom-rumorery for now -for me anyways.

Dunno if trains get robbed, but they sure come late... the spider's been confirmed for a great while, and other things too. We know when the book comes, for instance...

Yarrik
31-08-2010, 15:56
Sounds like loads of fun all around.

Avian
31-08-2010, 20:39
The monstrous spider rumor was first mentioned by me, mistakenly. (on warseer anyways)
I mentioned the spider on da Warpath in FEBRUARY and that was the first anyone heard of it. Then it got picked up and mentioned here a couple of days after.

As far as I can tell, you repeated it something like fifth-hand in July.

Urgat
31-08-2010, 20:47
You're going to fight on who said it first? Winning a cookie or something? :p

Avian
31-08-2010, 20:53
I already mailed out a Snotling (to a guy in Canada, IIRC) to the guy who managed to guess the author. Cookies would be the least I expect!

Trains_Get_Robbed
31-08-2010, 21:18
WOW Avain you have a photo-memory, I guess then it was mentioned before then XD (I only puruse warseer). I just heardthings from my local bud that went to Las Vegas manager meetings (back in july) and saw "too many things" -sneaky git- and told even less :(.