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Kohhna
26-05-2005, 20:07
Very simple,

Is there any point in taking Wraiths as hero choices?

I am re working my VC force at the moment and I have a few models left over from when you could take wraiths in units, but reading the rules they seem a bit pointless considering you could have a thrall or level 2 nec instead, both of which seem infinitely more useful. I suppose Terror is always cool against low LD armies but even then.

edit: Actually this should probably be in tactics so if the Mods want to move it over, go ahead.

samw
26-05-2005, 20:12
The wraiths I've seen usually have the cursed book safe in the knowlegde that they can't be taken out by normal troopers. That seems the best way really.

taer
26-05-2005, 20:32
Terror, Ethereal-ness, and superb anti-skirmisher nasties. Other than that, they are pretty *******' useless.

Math Mathonwy
26-05-2005, 20:36
I've used a Wraith a lot. With Cursed Book the fellow has saved my hide more times than I can remember by challenging those great weapon wielding heroes and lords and champions and whatnots. Also the terror is really nice, as it can sometimes stop fear-causing units from charging (not to mention the normal effects it has). I definitely like wraiths.

Also, a lone mounted wraith makes for a good war machine hunter/march stopper/terror causer.

macbeth
26-05-2005, 21:00
I love wraiths. They are the perfect necromancer bodyguards. They can accept challenges instead of the necromancers.

They can also serve as vampire bodyguards, and so allow to avoid some challenges you would not like...

Lordmonkey
26-05-2005, 23:20
Wraiths have shedloads of uses, as already described, but it also uses up a hero slot. In a 2000pt game, this might become difficult for some (I only use 3 slots, but there we are).

I am quite annoyed that, during the transition from undead to vampire counts/tomb kings, both the wraiths and mummies were pushed up to hero status, but their stats were sort of left alone... I miss those nifty little units of wraiths that would float through buildings, hedges, fences and end up in the enemy's apparently "protected" flank :D

For 90pts, i usually go for a thrall. give him a great weapon and he has a whale of a time, and provided you get to hit first, you'll often kill most other hero-status characters before they even get to hit back.

As for the terror, not much else competes for the points, but it's a hero slot, so if you have it spare, its a good investment.

Math Mathonwy
27-05-2005, 07:04
For 90pts, i usually go for a thrall. give him a great weapon and he has a whale of a time, and provided you get to hit first, you'll often kill most other hero-status characters before they even get to hit back.
Except Wraiths :D

Lordmonkey
27-05-2005, 13:13
Good Point! :D

Frankly
28-05-2005, 03:13
I have nothing against Wriaths.

I just think there are better hero choices and that will usually mean the wraith being exluded from my V.C. armylists.

Thralls are better fighters, as to are wights.

Ghouls are better skirmish killers, while their are other etherals that fit the roll better of "stagnating little bastard" units.

My options for filling up hero slots usually go like this:

a: magic enhancing

b; fighting

c; nothing ....save points for core units

d:waith

Frankly
28-05-2005, 03:17
Except Wraiths :D

He'd kill the wraith because he has a ...wight blade.

taer
28-05-2005, 06:00
Erm, thralls don't have wight blades. White Lords do. But not Thralls.

Oh, and wraiths can go wizard hunting too, without much fear of being hit by a cannonball, and the dispell dice of a VC list should be plenty to protect him from pesky magic missiles. Just another solution for the anti-scroll caddies league ;) (afterall, dead wizards don't really do a whole lot)

Frankly
28-05-2005, 08:20
Sorry . I have ready that wrong.

@taer, don't you think ghouls, bats and dire wolves are better at mage hunting?

EvC
28-05-2005, 11:49
I dunno, I might be temtped to include a wraith in my army if I could get one mounted. My 2000 points go count - mounted thrall - necro and wight lord BS. I'd have no real problem replacing my thrall, but converting a mounted wraith looks like it'd be a hell of a hard job though.

Sariel
28-05-2005, 16:54
Sorry . I have ready that wrong.

@taer, don't you think ghouls, bats and dire wolves are better at mage hunting?

I'm not taer, but I'll take a shot at this.. ;)

Ghouls work best as all-rounded mage killers, imho.

Ghouls - because they have enough attacks, and poison is your friend. Even if you charge a ranked unit (ie you're almost guaranteed to loose combat), you can still direct 6 attacks at the mage!

That and the fact that they have a 360 charge arc makes it harder for a mage to get out of the way if the mage is alone.


Fell Bats - eh. Good if the enemy mage has no forests to hide in, and is foolish enough to join small units (war machine crews, fast cavalry units). You might not kill him outright (4 WS3 S3 attacks at best), but the fact that the bats don't have to break (and should have enough wounds to last one or even two turns) means that even if you don't kill the mage outright, you'll have a coupla rounds of combat to whack him.

Only really works if you're using a decently-sized (ie 5+) unit of Bats, though, since you're going to need them to hang on for a while.

Also, Fell Bats would be better-served hunting war machines, march-blocking and chasing down fleeing troops, and since they're special choices, you probably won't have very many of them.


Dire Wolves - the worst choice, imho. You just don't have the number of attacks, chances are they won't have the wounds to last very long in combat, and they're much better-served acting as flankers and charge diverters.

Also, unless you get a Vanhel's off, a lone mage on foot/horseback can dance circles round the Dire Doggies...

Lordmonkey
28-05-2005, 18:27
Sorry . I have ready that wrong.

@taer, don't you think ghouls, bats and dire wolves are better at mage hunting?

Personally i'd say ghouls are the best mage hunters, for reasons already described by Sariel. They are a tad slow however, so its better when the enemy wizards are coming towards you.

Just had a thought. A mounted wraith with the obsidian amulet is pretty hard to kill at a range, and would make a nice wizard hunter (2 str 5 attacks, 1 str 3 attack) due to his speed. a lucky suicide charge would see off most low-level wizards, even in units... but its also a lot of points spent just trying to kill one low-level wizard.

I think wraiths are best used for challenging great-weapon wielding fighters and elite champions, to save the unit of skeletons (where else would you need a wraith?) a whole bunch of casualties.

Sariel
28-05-2005, 20:17
I think wraiths are best used for challenging great-weapon wielding fighters and elite champions, to save the unit of skeletons (where else would you need a wraith?) a whole bunch of casualties.

War machine/light cavalry/skirmisher hunters, and possibly suicide mage killers.

A mounted Wraith with the Talon of Death can be a thing of terror (pun intended) to war machine crews. Charge him into a war machine, and 3 crew are going to be taking S5 hits before combat starts!

Same thing with charging him alone into a ranked unit to whack a mage. The mage takes a S5 hit before combat even starts, which means that you've got a pretty good chance of hitting him.

Also, the Talon gives you a chance to take out the unit champion before combat, so you don't get sucked into a challenge. I'd still do my best to avoid the champion, of course (attacker has to maximise models in contact, ie ONE model), but sometimes, you can't avoid the champion.

Best part - a level 2 mage with 2 scrolls would probably cost more than the 138 points you've spent on the Wraith, so yeah, I'd say its worth it. Not only would it weaken his magic phase, it also strengthens your own!


Sure - might not be all THAT useful in a tournament where you might run into undead or daemons, but hey, how often do those armies have:
a) war machines
b) unprotected mages

Kohhna
28-05-2005, 21:19
Quite a few good points out there but al lot of what you are saying is equally applicable to the Banshee. And, in a 2000 pt army where you can only take 1 Coach, there will always be room for a Banshee, leaving a hero spot free for a Vamp or Nec.

Rabid Bunny 666
28-05-2005, 21:37
agreed, its a useful hero, but giving an etheral nightmare barding :wtf:

being ethereal with a great weapon is great for trashing up heroes/small units/warmachine crews and you just gotta love the old term "march inhibitor", but you can't pincushion this one :evilgrin:

Math Mathonwy
29-05-2005, 09:43
Quite a few good points out there but al lot of what you are saying is equally applicable to the Banshee. And, in a 2000 pt army where you can only take 1 Coach, there will always be room for a Banshee, leaving a hero spot free for a Vamp or Nec.
:confused:
The Banshee can't challenge, can't join units, doesn't cause terror, is slower than a lone Wraith on a Nightmare, can't reliably kill wizards or War Machine crews and has a very nifty shooting attack. The similarities are rather limited and the similar uses are even more limited (march blocking but rather slow for that)...

Brush your teeth
29-05-2005, 10:07
wraiths make great heros to lead units because the cause terror and can challenge heroes without magic items to increace how long your unit keeps fighting for.

Frankly
29-05-2005, 14:08
Do people really find him more useful than a Wight lord, a Necro or a Thrall?

There are more cost effective characters.

Wraiths do a few things well, he is a bit of a "Jack of all trades", but master of none.

Sariel
29-05-2005, 18:17
Do people really find him more useful than a Wight lord, a Necro or a Thrall?

There are more cost effective characters.

Wraiths do a few things well, he is a bit of a "Jack of all trades", but master of none.

Well, it all depends, really. A cheap, fast terror-causing character that can hit hard and is immune to mundane shootine? Why not? He's also just about the only character in the VC list who can operate independently, outside of some Carstein/Strigoi thralls.

Throw in a unit or two of cheap (ie no upgrades) Black Knights, a Banshee, a pack or three of Dire Wolves and some Fell Bats, and you suddenly have all sorts of units to run around in an enemy's rear...

More useful than a:

a) Wight Lord? Yeah. The only reasons I can think of to take a Wight Lord would be as a bearer of the Cursed Book, and a CHEAP way to add a little more weight to a unit of Black Knights. Other than that, there really isn't anything to recommend him, imho.

b) a Thrall? Depends on the bloodline. Von Carstein, Strigoi and Blood Dragon Thralls? Yeah.. I'd probably take the Thrall. Running Lamians (does anyone actually USE Lamians??!), Necrarchs or a Necro list? I'll take the Wraith... ESPECIALLY if I'm using a Necro list.

c) a Necromancer? Probably NOT more useful.

Then again, imho, NOTHING beats a Necromancer for utility. Except there's usually a limit to how many necros you can squeeze into a list for friendly pick-up games before other players start looking to hit you over the head and run off with your army case.....

Math Mathonwy
29-05-2005, 19:04
Wraiths do a few things well, he is a bit of a "Jack of all trades", but master of none.
The point is that he does stuff that none of the other characters do. He isn't a jack of all trades but rather a specialist, depending on his equipment.

a) Wight Lord? Yeah. The only reasons I can think of to take a Wight Lord would be as a bearer of the Cursed Book, and a CHEAP way to add a little more weight to a unit of Black Knights. Other than that, there really isn't anything to recommend him, imho.
Well, there is a certain sword that makes them rather useful for threatening big bad enemy characters rather badly.

Also note that being Necromancers who've succumbed to their dark arts, Wraiths make a very fluffy addition to Necromancer armies. Perhaps the Wraith is all that is left of their former master.

Sariel
29-05-2005, 21:45
Well, there is a certain sword that makes them rather useful for threatening big bad enemy characters rather badly.


Heh. Well, yeah. Then again, that means you're probably sticking him in a big bad unit of Black Knights with all the bells and whistles, in which case you'd almost definitely want a Wraith as well to run out and beat the snot out of any war machine crews, single-ranked missile units and skirmishers, since the Black Knights will now have this huge target painted on that musty old Banner of the Barrows............

vladdim
30-05-2005, 12:53
More useful than a:

a) Wight Lord? Yeah. The only reasons I can think of to take a Wight Lord would be as a bearer of the Cursed Book, and a CHEAP way to add a little more weight to a unit of Black Knights. Other than that, there really isn't anything to recommend him, imho.

b) a Thrall? Depends on the bloodline. Von Carstein, Strigoi and Blood Dragon Thralls? Yeah.. I'd probably take the Thrall. Running Lamians (does anyone actually USE Lamians??!), Necrarchs or a Necro list? I'll take the Wraith... ESPECIALLY if I'm using a Necro list.

c) a Necromancer? Probably NOT more useful.



a) Wight Lord BSB with Gem of Blood and Sword of Kings is excelent character choice in a Necrarch army. The Book is much better with a Wraith.

b) Strigoi Thrall is much better

c) You alway need a Necro or two (unless playing Flying Circus)

I usually field Wraith (with Cursed Book, on foot) at 3000+ battles, in smaller ones IMO the other characters are more important.

Frankly
31-05-2005, 04:52
The point is that he does stuff that none of the other characters do. He isn't a jack of all trades but rather a specialist, depending on his equipment.



I disagree.

What is he special at?

@Sariel
He's not cheep, he's not fast, he's not immune to the magic phase, he doesn't hit harder than a thrall or a wight lord. he can't operate on his own or he'll get beaten up in by CR.

Thralls are generally better than him. I've played Lamian, one of my pretty pale ladies would murder him.

Wights are a better cavalry unit captains on the whole, you want your knights in combat and not stuck out in no-mans land because the opponants ran from terror.

Terror just isn't that strong even a trait to loss a character spot over. If I really wanted terror enough, then most likely I'd go for a black coach on a flank.

Sariel
31-05-2005, 05:53
He's not cheep, he's not fast, he's not immune to the magic phase, he doesn't hit harder than a thrall or a wight lord. he can't operate on his own or he'll get beaten up in by CR.


Cheap:
I seem to have misplaced my book, but I do know that the Wraith is cheaper than a Thrall, though more expensive than a Wight Lord. The Wraith is almost definitely cheaper than a Thrall once you've started packing in the bloodline powers and magical toys. He's also a fair bit cheaper than a Black Coach, and unlike the Black Coach, he won't fall apart from a single S7+ hit (5+ ward save notwithstanding).

Fast - outside of a VC/Strigoi thrall, a mounted Wraith is just about the fastest character you have, especially since there really is no need for barding and he ignores any terrain penalties.

Magic - True. He's not immune to magic. On the other hand, he's something else an opponent has target. Park him with some Dire Wolves for a turn or two if you're really worried before sending him out on his own. Besides, your opponent still has to cast the spell, and VC really should have no problems with the magic phase.

By the same token, a Thrall or Wight Lord running around independently is open to both magic AND shooting. Black Coaches, Thralls, Wights and Wraiths are all equally vulnerable to those pesky rune-encrusted Dwarven artillery pieces, but at least a Wraith running loose behind the lines does'nt have to worry about taking a Hellblaster volley at close range.


CR - well, outside of bat swarms, fully-ranked infantry with all the bells and whistles will have enough soft combat resolution to discourage most other VC choices.




Thralls are generally better than him. I've played Lamian, one of my pretty pale ladies would murder him


Agreed. Almost definitely, actually. Then again, chances are the Lahmian Thrall is going to be parked inside a big ranked unit of skeletons and will have 20+ points of magical toys/Bloodline powers, since I'm guessing she's there in a close-combat-support role to help stiffen up the skeletons..

At the same time, as other posters have already mentioned, the usual close-combat commando Thralls (Carstein & Strigoi) don't usually carry magic weapons, which means that they're going to loose to a mounted Wraith by 1 (+1 for outnumber) before combat even starts, and they don't have a chance of hurting it!

Sariel
31-05-2005, 06:14
Wights are a better cavalry unit captains on the whole, you want your knights in combat and not stuck out in no-mans land because the opponants ran from terror


Well, yes they are. As others have already mentioned, the Sword of Kings (how could I forget that! Doh...) makes them pretty darn scary. At the same time, a full-up Black Knight unit with the Banner of the Barrows is already pretty darn scary all by their lonesome. Throw in a Carstein or Blood Dragon Count/Lord in there, and a Wight seems kinda superfluous..... all depends on how many points you're putting in that basket.

Oh. And honestly, if I see a ******** 'uge unit of Black Knights with full command and a Wight Lord (with the very high probability that there is a Sword of Kings and Banner of the Barrows in the unit), heck, I'd flee too, terror or no terror.. (assuming I passed my fear test in the first place - since there's a pretty good chance the Black Knights outnumber me, failing fear when charged means I'm gonna run anyway...)

Actually, if I see a ******** 'uge unit of Black Knights coming at me, I'd probably flee, character or no character...


As for terror, well, its definitely not something I'd want to count on. I've seen gobbo chariots pass 3 out of 4 psych tests from fear/terror. I've also seen an entire army of High Elves totally fluff their terror tests, leaving my Wraith sitting in the middle of a big semi-circle, looking at all those Elves running away (incidentally making for the highest score I've racked up with my Wraith to date, when he ran down and destroyed a fleeing unit of 28 Spear Elves with full command, War Banner and a level 2 mage!!! :D ) Nice if it happens, but not something I'm going to count on (though, having a terror-causing unit that can march 16" and ignores terrain is better than having a terror-causing unit that moves 8" and has to avoid difficult terain.....)

As for having knights stuck out in the middle of nowhere because opponents ran from terror - how exactly did that happen? The Wraith has no business being in a hammer unit of Black Knights.

Besides, in my experience, opponents fail terror when:

a) A terror-causing unit charges them.
b) They find themselves within 6" of a terror-causing unit at the start of their turn.
c) They try to charge a terror-causing unit.

In the case of a), well, all well and good. Either I fail charge (and possibly try to hit them again with a judicious Vanhels during the magic phase), I run them down if they don't flee far enough, or I redirect.

Not a problem unless I was careless enough to charge a unit that was serving as bait for a big, nasty ranked infantry unit/cavalry hammer that was waiting behind it, in which case the other guy was going to flee anyway.

In the case of b) and c), well, excellent. I now have a cavalry model that charges 16" in position to run down all those fleeing troops without having to bother with combat! Hardly a BAD thing, imho.....

Also, Black Knights really have no business charging after fleeing units. Summoned Zombies and Vanhels, Dire Wolves, Fell Bats, Ghouls, banshees, mounted Wraiths - all these work so much better at running down fleeing foes....

Math Mathonwy
31-05-2005, 06:45
What is he special at?
This has been the focus of this thread, really. He's special being an ethereal terror causer. I have won countless challenges with him against GW-wielding heroes and lords which has meant victory to me more times than I can remember. Also, his terror has caused lots and lots of nice surprises for me. I don't rely on his terror but every once in a while he delivers.

For leading Black Knights - yeah, I'd use a Wight Lord or a thrall of some sort. This is exactly what I meant by the Wraith being a specialist.

As a lone, mounted version he is even more of a specialist.

Also, someone was wondering how to convert one. A Mounted Necrarch vampire is a good start - just add a Wraith from the waist up, really.

Frankly
31-05-2005, 14:34
This has been the focus of this thread, really.




he he, yeah sorry I forgot ... silly question on my part. :evilgrin:

I'm still not convinced that you can't get better options than a wraith. I'm glad you've found him good in challenges, with ws3 strength3(5) and only 2 attacks(which is why I'm wondering why people are talking about him like he's a combat monster), he's going to hit once of average and then only going to wound 65% percent of the time on your average T4 hero. What happens if that hero has a magical attack, if he's etheral, a deamon, has T5, the unit champion accepts the challenge and the hero just hacks away at your rank and file?

If he's in combat, then it usually means his terror checks hasn't worked.

I'm wondering how your rank and file are doing in CR while your character is stuck in a challenge, zombies, skellies, dire wolves just don't do well on their own.

How many hero challenges has he won to how many as he lost to how many your average thrall or wightlord has won., just out of interest.

A lone mounted version is just plain risky, a mounted version in a unit of dire wolves in pretty nice, but is still usually heavily targeted and is then a target for and shooting phase as well.

@sariel

He costs 10 more than a thrall, for very average stat line. No he's not faster or more mobile than any other character on a steed.

I wouldn't have characters riding alone, so no, my wights and thralls aren't open to get shot at ... or magiced to death.

If you flee from all my black knight units, then you'll be fleeing 3-4 units a turn, if you did that then why would I need to buy a character that caused terror. :rolleyes:

As for terror. It's not what you've seen, its how many times you've seen gobbo's make they terror tests, how many times have you seen whole high elf armies completely fluff all they terror tests.

You can't take exceptoins and make them out to be the norm.

Leadership 10 high elves have a very solid shot of making every terror test, so do L.d.9 gobbo's.

It looks like your opponants fail their terror tests all the time. I'm wondering if your playing against Leadership 9-10 armies, immune to pyche armies and there are a hell of alot of those around, undead, deamons, M.o.khorne, M.o.Slaanesh, fear causing, every armybook usually has an unbreakable and/or immune to pyshe unit or units that can target your wraith.

And why wouldn't you target him, hell he's a 90-140pts model thats causes terror and is riding around by himself.

You guys still haven't talked about what your going to do with him if you run into an army thats immune to terror.

Units have have magical attacks.

Combat resolution.

Sariel
31-05-2005, 15:24
As for terror. It's not what you've seen, its how many times you've seen gobbo's make they terror tests, how many times have you seen whole high elf armies completely fluff all they terror tests.

You can't take exceptoins and make them out to be the norm.

True - annecdotes are lousy justification. They sure as hell are fun to talk about, though. ;) How often do you talk about all those games that were perfectly average? ANYWAY, back on topic.....

Like I already mentioned - terror tests are icing on the cake. Nice if they happen, and really nice if a high-leadership army (9+) fails a terror test, but not something I count on. My arguments have been in favour of a Wraith that works as an independent character, together with the other support elements (Ghouls, Dire Wolves, Fell Bats, small units of Black Knights with NO barding or command).



You guys still haven't talked about what your going to do with him if you run into an army thats immune to terror.
Units have have magical attacks.
Combat resolution.

First - oops about the point cost. I found me book again.

Terror - if he;s got high leadership (*cough* Dwarves *cough*) or just plain does'nt care.... well, it was'nt something you were going to count on anyways.

The Wraith is supposed to be an independent roving troubleshooter - he runs around picking on the soft, squishy targets like war machine crews and non-daemonic fast cavalry. If nothing else, you can always count on him lasting for exactly two rounds against a unit of naked Khornate Knights (ie 1 wound a round from outnumber) or any other combat unit without upgrades, which is more than can be said for the Thrall.


Magical Attacks - well, don't pick a fight with them. Unavoidable if the other guy is running a Daemon Legion, of course. Then again, that's ONE army. Brets with the Grail Vow (characters AND Grail Knights), Skaven shooting and Triads, Daemons, Grave/Tomb Guard. Characters with magical toys are the other culprits, and that's about it, I think.

Granted, if I KNEW I was going up against a Daemon Legion or another VC player, then, yeah, I'd probably leave the Wraith (with his Talon of Death) at home. I'd leave the Banshee, too.

On the other hand, if I HAD to use the Wraith (say, in a generic list at a friendly tournament), then I'd probably use him as a march blocker/table-quarter contester/point bank. A bit of a waste, but then, well, that's just the luck of the draw.

In my book, the Wraith's utility against everyone else more than makes up for it, since troops with magical weapons are the exception, not the norm. (though, given the increasing popularity of Daemon Legions on the tournament circuit......)


CR - um. Ok. If I charge my mounted Wraith into a fully-ranked unit of infantry, I deserve what I get. On the other hand, against just about ANY support unit (ie no ranks, magical weapons or command), I've got about a 65-70% chance of winning combat. More with if I get a charge with a Talon Wraith. Against fast cav, lower since they usually have musicians.

I'm not going to waste a unit of Black Knights on a Hellblaster! Once again, I'd like to stress that the Wraith (in my case, at any rate) is a support character. He works the flanks and possibly the rear - he has NO PLACE in the line of battle. My necros are hiding with their Zombie bodyguards in a corner sucking their thumbs, and if I'm actually using a Count (rare, and I almost never use Vampire Lords, but if I do, its usually a Carstein count), he's usually running around with Wolf Form and Aura of Dark Majesty, doing pretty much the same thing as the Wraith (ie running hither and yon helping out) rather than sitting pretty in a Black Knight hammer.

To summarise:

1) Thralls are better at combat, but outside of Strigoi and Carstein variants, they're going to need support to be viable threats.

2) Necros - yeah. No argument, but like I've mentioned, there is an upper limit on the number of necros you can field before you start getting things thrown at you... :(

3) Wraiths are the ones I use to harass and interdict, and generally make things difficult for the other guy. He's NOT a close-combat monster, and some armies will negate some of his advantages, but my take is, these armies (see above) are the exceptions rather than the norm, and even if I do have to face them, the Wraith isn't completely useless. Granted, contesting table quarters is a bit of a waste for a unit that usually costs me 138 points, but that's the half-full version. ;)

Math Mathonwy
31-05-2005, 17:50
I'm wondering how your rank and file are doing in CR while your character is stuck in a challenge, zombies, skellies, dire wolves just don't do well on their own.

How many hero challenges has he won to how many as he lost to how many your average thrall or wightlord has won., just out of interest.
He hasn't actually killed all that many heroes, but the main idea with the fellow and the whole unit he is in is just to hold up the enemy long enough for either the monster unit next to it (my general in a spearskelly unit - spear because the Count usually kills so many enemies that the unit won't suffer casualties) to kill the enemy or for the Spirit Hosts/ghouls to hit the flank of the enemy unit. So the Wraith is mainly there to stop the enemy characters from destroying the unit. Also he holds the Cursed book, which a Strigoi thrall can't have and a Wight Lord really needs the Sword of Kings or else he isn't all that really. The main problem therefore is that if I want the Cursed Book (and boy do I want it!) a Wraith is the only fellow with enough endurance to hold onto the book.


A lone mounted version is just plain risky, a mounted version in a unit of dire wolves in pretty nice, but is still usually heavily targeted and is then a target for and shooting phase as well.
Why is a lone Wraith so risky? Only thing that can hurt him is charging enemy units, which you can avoid being extremely fast and maneuverable, and magic. Some magic needs line of sight and the rest are targetting either your Banshees or your Wraith - both need protection. If you use Banshees, that is.

Frankly
01-06-2005, 03:15
Good God! how the hell did I get into Wraith bashing, honestly I don't mind this little fella ... anyway... like I said I trhink there are better options in the armybook that can fell out the roll of a wraith and not take up a hero slot or make a minor points sink within one single character model.

I think its risky because its not hard to target if your going 'mage and cannon' hunting with him, if your running down flanks and going after stuff bats, wolves and ghouls can get, then how much protection have you set up for him in your opponants turn.

Remembering that mages do move and cast magic, thats there are alot of magic shooty item out there(although in the minor), he will go down to a charge unit of light cavalry, normal cavalry, characters with magical weapons(not in the minor) etc, etc.

You have to admit a single character that can die through CR, has ws3, 2 wounds and 2 attacks, costs 102 pts and isn't has mobile and as quick has any other light horseman isn't the safest bet ... a unit of three bats, 5 wolves, 10 ghouls .... who cares.

If you want to stagnate an enemy unit for a flank charge, then skellies and zombies can do it on there own . bat swarms(even one bat swarm) roaming down the side if the battle looking for flanks is a option.

I still contend that there are better options in troops selection that can perform the jobs done by the a wraith