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Hrw-Amen
29-06-2010, 19:03
Just a thought, how would people feel about playing an army that whilst codex legal with all the appropriate equipment and stuff actually on the model, was way out from what the normal for that army should be.

For example, Necrons with a distinct Khorne theme, or Nurgle Eldar. Tau with tracked tanks, Orks with human skin tones and so on.

Or as long as everything was obvious what it was supposed to be and had all the weapons and gear it was supposed to have would you not worry about it?

Bestaltan
29-06-2010, 19:09
It depends. If everything was still WYSIWYG, I'd have zero problems with it. Heck, one of my battlewagons is a devilfish that my Tau generously "donated". Another is an old Mk I land raider that my Marines generously "donated".

Course, I've been known to tamper with army norms. My old lizardmen list had a saurus unit that had glyphs on their shields that spelled out "thousand sons".......

MystheDevourer
29-06-2010, 19:18
It depends. If everything was still WYSIWYG, I'd have zero problems with it. Heck, one of my battlewagons is a devilfish that my Tau generously "donated". Another is an old Mk I land raider that my Marines generously "donated".

Course, I've been known to tamper with army norms. My old lizardmen list had a saurus unit that had glyphs on their shields that spelled out "thousand sons".......

I love etched brass. . . .

Wolf Lord Balrog
29-06-2010, 19:22
It depends. If everything was still WYSIWYG, I'd have zero problems with it. Heck, one of my battlewagons is a devilfish that my Tau generously "donated". Another is an old Mk I land raider that my Marines generously "donated".

Course, I've been known to tamper with army norms. My old lizardmen list had a saurus unit that had glyphs on their shields that spelled out "thousand sons".......

^^ What he said.

I had an interesting thought: a converted experimental Tau Cadre that 'counts-as' Eldar. I just thought of it, so I don't have any of the details worked out, but it seems like it would be cool. :)

Charistoph
29-06-2010, 19:31
While treaded Devilfish and Hammerheads aren't really likely (they ARE skimmers), so long as the conversion doesn't look like the average 2-year-old's drawing, then it's good.

Bestaltan
29-06-2010, 19:35
^^ What he said.
I had an interesting thought: a converted experimental Tau Cadre that 'counts-as' Eldar.

Hmmmmm.........My conversion muse is singing......

I just want to field Tau howling banshees. Or would that be Tau-ling banshees? ;)

IcedAnimals
29-06-2010, 19:36
I love playing against people who put all the work into their army to make it truly stand out. Even if its a little confusing you will find that the people who love their army and the game enough to put in that kind of work are the people who are great to play with and who care about more than just win win win.

I myself have done HEAVY conversions to my daemon army. Since I play a slaanesh daemons army I still wanted to take plaguebearers for example. so I converted dryads to represent slaaneshes garden. I took the plastic daemonettes and put them on spider bodies from goblin spider riders and have them as fiends.

Grimtuff
29-06-2010, 19:44
Only if the army in question is appropriate, i've seen to many lists in my time that make no sense whatsoever and are simply chosen due to the power the list can provide.

For example. Iron Warriors using Tau rules :wtf:, Adeptus Mechanicus using Chaos Daemons rules :eyebrows:, Gretchin as IG :confused:, Feral humans as Orks :rolleyes:

The list goes on. The army must be appropriate and not be some kind of round peg rammed into the square hole that is 40k.

Don't get me wrong i'm all for counts as armies (hell I use it a lot with my Daemons) but some of the ones I have seen simply extract the urine in terms of justification.

de Selby
29-06-2010, 19:50
From the examples you've given it sounds like a lot of work for a strange result. You're talking about modelling armies that deliberately don't fit with the background, rather than just coming up with something new that isn't covered by the background. I would wonder why you'd bothered. It would be a bit like playing 40k against someone with counts-as LOTR miniatures.

Mannimarco
29-06-2010, 19:59
For example. Iron Warriors using Tau rules :wtf:

Yeah I saw that one, it was a troll thread that he shut down and called us all stupid for trying to bring him down cos he's creative and obviously we're not.

Im all for counts as armies as long as its not done is some stupd way with some ridiculous justification trying to prove its ok:

does anybody remember when codex space wolves came out? how every other army wanted to use it "cuz it fits the theme of my army better innit" while this was ok for some armies it did get stupid fast: World Eaters as Space Wolves? yeah that could be ok, Necron tombworld as Space Wolves? Tau cadre as space wolves? thats pushing it.

jsullivanlaw
29-06-2010, 20:00
I think it's great and would love to play against converted armies. The fluff has grown fairly retarded of late anyway so it plays little role in my decision.

Mage
29-06-2010, 20:07
I don't think he is intentionally fitting in models that don't fit with the background, nor does he mentioned counts-as. He is saying if they had all the right wargear.

I remember seeing something in a white dwarf a while back about a guy using Orcs as Warriors of Chaos, while not 40k, is a valid example of the subject matter being discussed. For warriors of Khorne he had black orcs, cant remember if their skin was red, and for a khorne spawn, it was a bunch of squigs in one melded mass. Pretty cool.

I would have no problems with something like this. I remember hearing from a gamer who wanted to do an Iron Hands (vanilla marines) army using chaos space marines. Obliterators would be tooled out tech priests, plague marines would be very bionically enhanced battle brothers, khorne berserkers would be Iron Hands from a more aggressive clan company with spears and roman style sheilds, etc.

I don't see the problem with it as long as it:

(1) Looks cool and makes at least a little sense
(2) Is not done on a power gaming basis
(3) See number one again

Nurgle Eldar could happen, look at Maugan Ra's craftworld, it was in the warp for quite a while. Not so sure about human skin tones on orks,or tracker tau vehicles (unless it was a Gue'la auxilliary repair job on a tau vehicle or something).

Not so sure on Khorne flavoured necrons though, Necrons and chaos don't mix.

de Selby
29-06-2010, 20:14
I brought up LOTR minis as an example of something that doesn't fit in the 40k world (like chaos necrons). All of the OPs examples seemed to be things that were deliberately 'wrong', rather than just unusual like khornate orks (which used to be quite common). If that wasn't the intention then I'd take any novel army theme on its own merits, fully converted or no.

Gaargod
29-06-2010, 20:57
Does it look awesome?

If the answer is yes, its going to have to be seriously 'wrong' to annoy me.

If the player can come up with an appropriate reasoning, go for it. Even if its blatantly for power purposes (using khorne daemons modelled as slaanesh because it helps the army), that's still fine with me if its done well at all. Its actually often quite nice to see a fully themed army.

Raditz
29-06-2010, 21:06
Khornite Tau using Ork rules anyone? A hilarious effort at proving Tau can beat you in Close Combat.

I'd say most converted armies are good, as long as it accurately represents and isn't just turning your current army to another codex (World Eaters to Blood Angels because "They represent them better." and then giving them everything a World Eater doesn't use.). Or if it's a joke army, like Grotz as IG or CC Tau as orks.

Mini77
29-06-2010, 21:07
I'd have no problem so long as it adhered to WYSIWYG. Many years ago I played against someone who had created their own race using miniatures from elsewhere and put together an army using the IG lists. It was very cool, very well done, straightforward and tons of fun.

carldooley
29-06-2010, 21:33
How about fielding LotD using the IG codex, and using allied Chaos Terminators as 'stand ins' for GKTs?

IcedAnimals
29-06-2010, 22:00
I have seen an all gretchin army using the imperial guard. They bought gretchin models in great coats. Modeled gretchin climbing all over their leman russ tanks. (The new gretchin tanks would be awesome but probably too small) Everything was expertly modeled and painted. You could tell they put a LOT of work into it. A hell of a lot more work than all the people who told him no but had blue/black/grey/silver/orange/white marines and played them as blood angels.

de Selby
29-06-2010, 22:02
I'd have no problem so long as it adhered to WYSIWYG. Many years ago I played against someone who had created their own race using miniatures from elsewhere and put together an army using the IG lists. It was very cool, very well done, straightforward and tons of fun.


How about fielding LotD using the IG codex, and using allied Chaos Terminators as 'stand ins' for GKTs?

These are both great examples of 'full conversion' armies I would love to play against. Something from the 40k universe that just needs to borrow someone else's rules to make it to the tabletop.

Grimtuff
29-06-2010, 22:50
I have seen an all gretchin army using the imperial guard. They bought gretchin models in great coats. Modeled gretchin climbing all over their leman russ tanks. (The new gretchin tanks would be awesome but probably too small) Everything was expertly modeled and painted. You could tell they put a LOT of work into it. A hell of a lot more work than all the people who told him no but had blue/black/grey/silver/orange/white marines and played them as blood angels.

But what is wrong with using the Ork list to represent them? The core of the army is right there with only a few niggles such as the HQs, but you can easily get round that by doing a Master Blaster esq conversion for a Warboss.

Nicely modelled it may have been, but the stats simply do not fit. Since when were Grots S3 T3 and had pretty decent Ld? Or even had the same BS as a SM?

This is an example of pushing it too far IMO and simply going for a more powerful list then trying to justify it with tenuous fluff.

Bestaltan
29-06-2010, 23:00
Nicely modelled it may have been, but the stats simply do not fit. Since when were Grots S3 T3 and had pretty decent Ld? Or even had the same BS as a SM?

This is an example of pushing it too far IMO and simply going for a more powerful list then trying to justify it with tenuous fluff.

I think you're missing the hobby aspect of this hobby. Who cares if grots have never been S3 or T3? The simple fact of seeing a couple of grots behind a lascannon or in the cockpit of a valkyrie could potentially be one of the funniest things I've seen in the hobby.

There are a lot of people who enjoy the modeling aspect of this hobby. To them, this would be a GREAT idea. Heck, I myself am planning on taking a valkyrie and Orky-fying it into a fighta-bomba. Now would that be taking things too far?

Some things would be wierd, sure. Grots using guard rules wouldn't, especially given the Ork/gretchin predisposition to.....ahem......procure items.

Finally......give grots a break. This might be the only way they ever see the light of day in the 5th edition universe. :D

Shas'o Kais
29-06-2010, 23:07
I have seen IG and i thought it was a great idea, the organization of imperial guard fits the grots very well, and the army looked great. I think that grot imp guard are one of the best conversion armies out there.

Mannimarco
30-06-2010, 00:49
Yeah I quite like the idea of a grot army, its the whole "grot revalushun" thing we used to know and love in gorkamorka taken to a new scale

LonelyPath
30-06-2010, 01:13
If I can take a old GI Joe (Action Man) tank to a apocalypse game and say it's a Capitol Imperialis, peopel can do anthing if you ask me ;)