View Full Version : Opinions on LoC

30-06-2010, 02:02
Hey I'm deciding which gretaer daemon to get for my doc force and was wondering about the LoC.

The bloodthirster and LoC are tied for me. The BT for it's huge killiness and the LoC for well... being awesome. I was just wondering if they are the great spellcasters the fluff claims them to be. The main thing I like about the LoC is that he may be a spellcaster daemon but he is sitll a greater daemon and no slouch in combat, I think he should easily be able to chomp through any core units thrown his way, but thats just me theorycrafting :P.

Soo yeah, is the Lord of Change a decent choice for a mixed daemon army?

30-06-2010, 04:22
I don't think it's much of an issue of "are they both good" but rather a question of what do you need them to do in your army? Obviously if you are going magic heavy then a LoC is going to be a big boost in that area. If you just want to smash things the Thirster is fantastic at that.

And the Keeper of Secrets is a glorious middle ground where you can have some nasty magic, and some awesome combat abilities as well. ASF w/ wicked good Initiative will allow re-rolls to hit in 8th edition and this will make the Keeper even deadlier in combat. Many people see them as the "best" GD for a mixed Demons army because they can be quite good at both zapping with magic and squishing enemy regiments/characters in combat.

30-06-2010, 04:56
All GDs make excellent generals for mixed Daemon armies. I wouldn't worry too much about competitiveness playing Daemons.

Personally, I greatly prefer the mix of combat prowess and excellent spell casting of the LoC over the simple and horrendously overpowered (if geared right) 'thirster.

30-06-2010, 10:31
Yeah I'm gona go with the LoC, I would get the Keeper... if it wasnt for the fact that I find the model hideous. I would have to get the Forge world version, but that would bust the bank hah.

30-06-2010, 10:42
Both are good monsters, the problem with the LoC in 8th edition is that he is unreliable.
With the Bloodthirster you always know how he's going to perform, you know how many attacks he has (unless taking Dark Insanity), you know his S values and so on, in short, you know pretty much how he's going to fare in a combat.

The LoC on the other hand focuses on spellcasting, and while he has access to 9 great magic lores, some flunky Winds of Magic rolls might see him drastically neutered.
On the other hand, good Winds of Magic rolls will make him beastly.

I'm going with a LoC myself simply because I like magic and my force focuses primarily on Tzeentch and Slaanesh units.

30-06-2010, 11:02
Well I'm trying to include every god in my army, however I have yet to find a way to incorperate any nurgle yet. My core is currently made of bloodletters and demonettes, with my specials being hounds and the rares will probabley be flamers. I'll also be picking up a herald on jugger and the masque.

Btw this is all based on the fact I like the models, so I dont know if that will be ultra cheese or weak sauce. Either way I don't really care. Also it's not like the LoC is completley helpless in combat... he's stil a GD after all.

30-06-2010, 11:07
The Lord of Change is better than a dragon in combat, not as good as the 'Thirster or Keeper of Secrets of course, but he's really not all that far behind them. He still outclasses most tooled up fighty lords from other armies, people just get the idea that because he is a caster he's not good in a fight when it's quite the opposite!

Level 2 mage knowing all the spells of the tzeentch lore also means he gets +2 to cast and can make full use of the full 2d6 dice you'll get without needing any upgrades at all. So very good for keeping him cheap and useful.

Considering at 2k you can't spend more than 50pts on upgrades for your greater daemons thats a massive bonus.

You can give him Dark magister and Irridescant Corona to put him at 500pts allowing him to know any of the new lores, plus he'll deal a st3 hit to everyone in base contact at the start of each combat round, making him very near to the thirster in terms of outright damage vs ranked troops.

30-06-2010, 11:24
Exactly what I was thinking! The whole caster=squishy thing never made sense to me. Infact it reminds of the old fluff in the hordes of chaos book about how many heroes mistook the Lord of Change to be frail... only to have their wepons shatter on it's feathers and get mauled in return :).

30-06-2010, 11:57
Yeah the lord of change is a great caster and melee fighter, remember also that the Khairos Fateweaver model is rumored to be out in the near future which can provide you with a nice additional model to use if you prefer it to the normal loc model. :)

30-06-2010, 11:59
I tried out Kairos in my first 8th Edition game, and he was awesome. I would certainly consider him, especially now the lores have increased in power.

gork or maybe mork
05-07-2010, 18:44
Tzeentch heralds aren't that much worse at casting than a LoC in 8th ed. With the full lore and +1 pd abilities, they are much cheaper, and only really lack fly and the +4 to cast. I used 2 in my recent 8th ed games, 1 with lore of life to heal the thirster and buff the other daemon units (lol toughness 8 flesh hounds), and the other with shadow for throwing 5-6 dice at pit of shades (bye bye slaan). These two together are still cheaper than a lord of change, and with the +2 power dice they can offset the smaller to cast bonus by throwing more dice at spells.

05-07-2010, 18:54
With the full lore and +1 pd abilities
You can't take both those together on a Herald, too expensive.

05-07-2010, 20:29
kairos is fantastic, he has a 3+ward, and he has access to all 8 lores plus tzeentch (so 4+ tzeentch per head). so he generates powerdice, and he can cast with the best of them, he has +2to cast as well (so +6) which will make him very hard to block. sadly we cant use him except in larger games. so stick with using a keeper, or a thirster as ur general then take a couple of heralds plus blue scribes :)

05-07-2010, 20:41
I tried out Kairos in my first 8th Edition game, and he was awesome. I would certainly consider him, especially now the lores have increased in power.

Yeah, no kidding. Kairos with some of the new spells would be crazy-go-nuts.

How about left head with Throne of Vines, Regrowth, Chain Lightning and Comet? Would you even bother using the right head? :cheese: