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View Full Version : 8th ed 2.25k Khorne Warrior of chaos list



logan054
03-07-2010, 19:28
Characters

Exalted Champion
- Mark of Khorne
- Great Weapon
- Juggernaut of Khorne
- Talisman of preservation
- Favour of the Gods
Total 233pts

Exalted Champion (with warriors with additional hand weapons)
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Collar of Khorne
- Shrieking Blade
- Enchanted Shield
Total 195pts

Core

30 Chaos Marauders
- Mark of Khorne
- Great Weapons
- Fullcommand
Total 200pts

17 Chaos Warriors
- Additional Hand weapons
- Shields
- Fullcommand
- Banner of Rage
Total 354pts

18 Chaos Warriors
- Mark of Khorne
- Halberds
- Shields
- Fullcommand
- Banner of Eternal Flame
Total 376pts

6 Chaos Hounds
Total 36pts

6 Chaos Hounds
Total 36pts

7 Chaos Hounds
Total 42pts

Special

6 Chaos Knights
- Mark of Khorne
- Musician
- Standard
- Standard of Discipline
Total 315pts

4 Chaos Trolls
Total 180pts

Rare

Chaos Warshrine
Total 130pts

2 Chaos Spawn
- Mark of Khorne
Total 150pts

Army Total 2247pts

theSkullduggery1
06-07-2010, 16:13
30 Marauders isn't going to be enough (assuming you are going horde formation, which you should be with the equipment they have)...you lose attacks back as soon as the first one dies (which they will) from shooting and not to mention that you attack second.

At least 40 Marauders should be taken, personally I like 50.

That will be 50-100 points needed, if you take 40 Marauders drop a spawn (they aren't as good this edition)...if you take 50 drop both spawn or a spawn and a troll.

I like your unit of CW with additional HW, with 31 attacks they should mow down weak units that have high numbers, while the other unit handles tougher units well.

*31 attacks wasn't taking into account that the exalted was in that unit, even more punch!!!

logan054
06-07-2010, 22:10
To be honest i dont think the horde rule is all that, i mean yes you get a extra rank to attacks however with the marauders they are still only T3 with no save, what you want is increased ranks to increase the chance of stubborn, the horde rule is a Gimik.

Cheers for the comments.

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
06-07-2010, 23:12
well, i wouldnt say that horde is a gimic, i would say that horde units WIN combats, and deep units HOLD so they both have there uses, its just that horde units can do both, albeit less effectively at holding, but horde units are amongst the only units that have enough killing power to remove steadfast from big units. i personally think that it would be worth making that unit horde, with the warriors on the flank (40 strength 5 attacks will murder units, 15 won't)

oh, and halberds are better than additional hw, because the extra attack is wasted in every rank except the first, whereas every rank will get plus 1 strength for halberds, plus, with big units popping up every where (apparently, a half truth if you ask me) and initiative order, that should make you adept at killing both charging cavalry and infantry, plus, on averages, halberds are and were always better (except when fighting skinks and zombies...)

and if your taking banner of rage, you may as well take a mark, otherwise you may as well buy MoK and save 5 points, yes you dont lose the frenzy, but banner of rage is usualy used to allow units to have mon or mot as well as frenzy.

also, why the wierd number of hounds? surely units of 5 are large enough, meh, i dont know, do you have an underlying reason?? otherwise it seems that they've just been bulked up to use points. You could drop them down to 5 strong units and drop a warrior from each unit to put in another 10 marauders in the unit.

and you really need a wizard for magic defence (although that wouldn't be very themed, so you can ignore this bit of advice, depends if your going for gaming army or for complete theme, you could explain it by saying its some crazy antimagc khorne daemon or something and then never cast any spells with him)

logan054
07-07-2010, 12:47
I think yout not taking everything into consideration when thinking how great horde units are, on a 6x4 board im go to be abit tight with this army as it is, i really dont think a unit with a 10" frontage is going to help things. Boards are going to have more terrain on so this unit could be harder to move, shooting in two ranks and volley fire? what you going to shoot with you strength 3 bows, my T4 3+ save warriors or my T3 no save marauders with 4 strength 5 attacks? what happes if a unit with a smaller frontage charges, say unit of 30 swordsmen in a 5x6, im going to get 5 more attacks, have no chance of stubborn and be held in combat until im flank charged (maybe following turn). Also i dont think i have any more of the 5th ed marauders with great weapons :(

Whole point in taking banner of rage was more so i didnt have to take it on my hero as well, rather than having MoK with the points saved i have given him a 5+ wardsave

I dont see how a unit of 6 hounds is a wierd number? the unit of 7 was simply because i had some points left over and i didnt need anything else. My main use for them will be moving cover for my infantry, but they cetainly will have plenty of other uses :)

Why do i need a wizard, this isnt 7th ed, i only really need to stop one big spell, if someone is rolling 6 dice for a big spell then i can rest assured that the wizard is going to be rolling on the out of control table which chances are is going to produce a tenplate with strength 10 hits, ouch, its not even like im that concerned is someone charges me in the magic phase, im still going to be striking first against most things and several of my units cause fear anyways (fear will be very useful for this army).

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
07-07-2010, 13:53
6 hounds is a wierd number. Why? for starters, the box set has 10 models, putting units in a 6 wide frotage is usually for extra combat potency, and hounds are not good in combat, your paying an extar 6 points on a crappy unit and effectively giving your opponent an extra 6 points because you know they will die, and finally, yes 6 does offer slightly better cover, but if you 3 points from somewhere in your list, then you could have four units of 5 which is superior for taking out warmachines and mobile cover, that said, you could hgo with my previous suggestion.

your actually not raising a huge counterpoint against horde. the idea is that it attracts shooting away from your much smaller more expensive elite units, ie warriors. if you lost 4 marauders, wouldnt you be happy that at least it wasn't 1-2 warriors? i know i would be, since a unit of 40 horde marauders will usually cost less points. Any way, you can always deploy horde, charge the enemy, cause tonnes of wounds, likely win the combat, if they dont flee due to steadfast, you reform into ranks. If your opponents unit is still steadfast next turn then you must have been really unlucky.

also, in this edition, wizards are even more important for magic defence, since you add your wizard level to casting AND dispel attempt, meaning that a level 4 is actually now the best way of playing a defensive magic phase. Most lores have the doom spell, and yes, you can probably aim to dispel it, maybe 6-7 times out of 10? but, most lores have enough smaller spells to make your day bad, for example, lore of beasts. you stopped his wizard being a dragon, now hell just increase the toughness of his units in combat and strength, by by chaos warriors. Or death, ok, you stopped his purple sun, now hell just pick on your characters with the three character killing spells. Or shadows, ok, you stopped one of the 3 top spells, now theylll just cast all the debuffs onto your units and watch you cry as your warrior units lose combat to something of the equivelnat of swordsmen, and then theres metal. ok, you stop the horribley good final transmutation, now watch as your warrior units die from being superheated in their armour, the list goes on...

my point is is that a wizard is more important now than it was before in 7th, o the basis that the spells are much, much more nasty, and much much more game changing, and for a list to be competitive, you need to take at least 1 lvl 2 with a dispel scroll. If your going for theme, thats cool, but saying that wizards are less needed now for magic defence is definitely not true.

im also going to second the point made about spawns, your army will be alot further ahead of them now with, on average, larger charge ranges. of course, you could keep them, and then, maybe, you could use them to prevent flank charges on your horde unit (if it goes horde)

NOTE: i dont think hounds are a crappy unit, i just think six is a rubbish number, and relying on your opponent to miscast is not a great plan, even rolling 6 dice, they are more likely not to miscast then miscast, and if they miscast, it means thet've gotten there best spell off

theSkullduggery1
07-07-2010, 13:54
@logan054: I disagree with some of the things you are saying, I still think horde is the way to go...if movement is the issue just start with ranks and reform prior to combat.

I also feel like you need a wizard to be competitive, but didn't say anything since I saw you were going for a Khorne army.

However I do agree with giving the unit the banner of rage, I've done the same thing realizing that it is cheaper to go that way than MoK on unit +hero.

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
07-07-2010, 14:13
im not saying baner of rage isnt the way to go, im saying that if yu take it, its usually so you can take either mot or nurgle as well, mot would make more sense as it can be looked at as magic and shooting resistance, after all khorne hates anything that isnt combat (sortof reminds me of spartans)

logan054
07-07-2010, 15:01
On the hounds most of my chaos hounds are actually metal so i got mine in packs of two, with hounds you will have two options, you can either deploy them 6 wide to absorb shooting or you can deploy them 3x2 and use them to go after warmchines, this case the extra attacks may well come in very handy. Now i was going to have them all in units of 6 however as i said i had enough points left over, i didnt feel i needed anything so just spent the points on the extra hound, i really dont see the issue, chances are the unit will never make it across the board.

Now with magic, lets be honest here, the wizards that you need magic defense against are going to step all over a level1/2 wizard, +2 to dispel isnt going to help say against a slann? What about the dragon spell exactly? are you going to be putting your wizards in units? do you want them near combat? if this has alreadu happened you have played badly. like with any magic phase its simply about know which spell to worry about and which spells to let through and dispel later. yes some of the mega spells are nasty but its hardly like your going to roll amazing winds of magic every turn! all you need to do is have a couple of bad rolls and your not going to be getting off you mega spells, i mea what id you roll a 1 & 6, 7 power dice, 6 dispel dice, i'm liking that. Its not even like with the best will in the spells you can cast all that many spells a turn unless your say a slann, you cant really one dice spells anymore, isnt it 1 or 2 equals a failed caste, failed caste equals no more magic from that that. With average dice rolls you will get 3 spells a turn maybe? couple of crappy spells that are not going to effect me in the long term, maybe kill a few models and a biggish spell, maybe just one big spell if your feeling lucky. Its also going to come down to having the right lore, remember you have to choose your spells in the armylist now rather than just pick and choose what you need.

So if you have you wizard trying to dance about for alot of spells i just need a unit of hounds in combat, thats your LoS blocked and thats your pool spells really limited, and this is all on the basis that everyone is even going to take a level 3/4 wizard.

You know what i like chaos spawns, i was going to use scyla however i decided against it, i have been using two khorne spawn since 6th (in 5th i used to use loads of them simpy for the amusement value) and they have always done me well.

All this dosnt even take into account what my warhsrine does, what if that rolls up Mr3 on my other unit, what about if it makes them 4+ wardsave save with stubborn?

Your all very welcome touse horde formation, personally im sticking with 6 wide

Vsurma
07-07-2010, 15:23
You seem to think (why?) you can dispel that 1 correct spell.

Opponent gets 2d6 you get d6 dispel dice. So on your average DD or 3-5 your opponent still has more 1 dice more every time.

What this means to me is that you cannot reliably at least stop that 1 spell they want to get through. If that 1 spell is said dragon (just because its a fun example) your in trouble, you lose your main unit.

Alternatively your fighting an actual high magic army that adds PD to his pool and your well behind on dice, with them getting +4 to each cast, your likely to meet not 2-3 spells but rather 5-6 of which you can dispel 1... I think taking that lv2 might bump that to being able to dispel 2.

For a khorne army not taking a mage is of course completely acceptable. For others I Would tend to go for a lv4 and a lv2.

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
07-07-2010, 21:36
well, we cant take warshrine rolls into consideration, its like trying to figure out how many wounds a giant will cause in combat on average, its totally random. what im saying is that almost every lore is versatile enough to do well, practically every lore (except perhaps metal) has the versatility to do well against most opponents. A level with a scroll wil help, because you get plus 2 to all dispel attempts instead of plus 0 and a scroll.

But, if your doing a khorne army it is acceptable to not take a wizard, iam merely making the point that a level 2 with a scroll is better than nothing. And most magic offensive armies will have items that add PD or powers, eg. vamp powers, book of secrets, that wierd high elf banner of plus d3 power dice, slann plaques

and very few of the spells are crappy, maybe ignorable if your forced to, but certainly not if you can do anything about it. Any way, just ignore me, because your obviously not going to take anything i say into consideration, but, as i have kept on saying, if your going for theme, then just ignore the advice of including a wizard. That advice is from a purely list buiding point of view.

logan054
07-07-2010, 22:25
@ o0-NattyMcFatty-0o - Sadly what your saying is starting to make far to much sense :cries: I pretty much stopped using my khorne list in 7th because it was pretty much unusable, i looks like i may well have to bite the bullet and start using a more mix list, i think i may well just keep this for friendly games

*stores list*

Right so you saying, drop the spawn, add a wizard, maybe add some bound magic to a unit, i coudl actually maybe swap the additional hand weapon warriors for tzeentch warriors with HW+SH and then alter my BSB around abit.

logan054
07-07-2010, 22:34
Well it looks like i have been converted from using a pure blood khorne list, i feel kinda dirty now

Characters

Chaos Lord (general)
- Mark of Khorne
- Great Weapon
- Juggernaut of Khorne
- Talisman of preservation
- Favour of the gods
Total 333pts

Exalted Champion (with tzeentch warriors)
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Collar of Khorne
- Shrieking Blade
- Enchanted Shield
Total 195pts

Chaos Sorcerer (with Tzeentch warriors)
- level 2
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Dispel scroll
- Third Eye of Tzeentch
Total 190pts

Core

30 Chaos Marauders
- Mark of Khorne
- Great Weapons
- Fullcommand
Total 200pts

16 Chaos Warriors
- Shields
- Fullcommand
- Mark of Tzeentch
- Banner of Eternal Flame
Total 316pts

18 Chaos Warriors
- Mark of Khorne
- Halberds
- Shields
- fullcommand
Total 366pts

5 Chaos Hounds
Total 30pts

5 Chaos Hounds
Total 30pts

Special

6 Chaos Knights
- Mark of Khorne
- Musician
Total 280pts

4 Chaos Trolls
Total 180pts

Rare

Chaos Warshrine
Total 130pts


Army Total 2250pts

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
08-07-2010, 02:34
its sad that khorne armies are still unusable, i love the sight of khorne armies with no wizards. I think games workshop tried to make it so you don't need a wizard, and, whilst you still produce roughly the same dd as pd, with the difference of 1 and 6 (excluding items channeling etc) i dont really think they coud have forseen the impact of adding plus 4 to EVERY casting roll would have done, and its no forcing people to take even more expensive wizards for defense (level 3/4 if you can afford it and level 2 if you cant).

as for your list, well, i havent written anything below 2.5k for a while, but chaos lords look damn expensive now...

plus, considering his load out, you could drop him to an exalted and still have the same items and save yourself a handsome 114 points (i think).

as for your other characters, your bsb looks fine. althyough, i hanvent a clue what shrieking blade does, havent looked at all the magic items in the common magic items section.

black tongue is good, but its also dangerous, taking an auto wound on a two wound model is bad news, that said, at least they wont get half vps anymore. itd probably be good to give him a dispel scroll, just for those magic phases where your opponents been jammy and rolled a 10 or higher and has 4 or more pd than your dispel dice.

this also means you have a massive 139 points to play about with. That could go on, buying another rank of chaos trolls, another warshrine, buying magic standards for your warrior and knight units, hell you could even up your level 2 to a level 4

and dont feel dirty. its not like your making a filthy chosen deathstar list or something (although that does look cool). its not your fault that a wizard is just a neccesary tool for the purposes of defense. and, its not like your putting a slaanesh character in a khorne unit or a nurgle character in a tzeentch unit. if you want do a mono khorne list, and just say the sorcerer wandered drunk onto the board after a heavy night's drinking and luckily non of the khorne dudes noticed him. Alternatively you could just have a couple of khorne dudes dragging him about, forcing him to stop the enemies foul magics or something; khorne worshipers hate the use of magic, but i dont think they'd be above forcing someone else to use there abilities to protect the rest of the army. or it could be some scion of khorne thats anti magical. only problem is is that at the end of the day its still a sorcerer.

either way, i like the revised list and its good to hear you saw sense.

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
08-07-2010, 02:41
oooohh! rapturous standard would be good on your tzeentch warriors

logan054
08-07-2010, 09:07
Well i upgraded the exalted to a lord simply to keep within the 562.5pts on heroes, i can certainly black tongue, i could go for something like dispel scroll and eye of tzeentch. Also remember by turning him into a lord it meant i could dop the +1 leadership banner so the points diffference isnt actuall all that great, its actually only 80pts, for that 80pts im getting:
+1WS +1T +1I +1W +1A +1LD which isnt reliant on a banner

I dont think i have actually used a chaos lored in less that 3k since 6th ed so i think it could be interesting.

I did however some other thoughts one things i could do however its going to be a case of finding points or deciding if its really needed

MoT on knights with Banner of rage, basically giving them a 5+ ward against magic, blastered standard on tzeentch warriors, 4+ wardsave against shooting, 4+ against magic, 5+ in combat. pretty damn good.

While it would be good to have a level 4wizard i do have my Tzeentch list, my DE and VC for the more magic heavy builds.

With the magic after thinking about what has been said in this topic it woudl have worked much better if it was more like 5th ed, if your casting with a higher level its +1 to your roll, people dont get this against dwarfs, it would be really cool if daemons and WoC had something the realm of chaos book had, it was a gift that meant you counted as a level 4 wizard for dispeling (actually that would work in the current edition)

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
08-07-2010, 13:09
well, chaos lords are still good, just they are expensive, but they are admitedly much cooler than exalteds and its not huge issue. Blasted standard is great, although i would think carefully where you put it. It would be most effective on tzeentch warriors, but people are likely to aim shooting at your knight unit, because they have less time to deal with it and there are enough warmachines out there with high strength armour piercing attacks to deal with them, so its likely to be more useful on your chaos knights.

of course, mot and banner of rage would work on the knights too, but cannons are now horrificly scary as premeasuring has made them very very accurate and there's ittle los blocking scenery (i feel like my opponents cheating when he measures 6-8 inches from my unit to place the cannon ball. damn you premeasuring!!!) that said, are you more likely to face magic or shooting, basically is your gaming group more into shooting or magic, because mot banner of rage is obviously better vs magic and blasted standard is obviously better vs shooting

oh, and for your lord, this is just a general suggestion i give to chaos lords without gifts, but word of agony is an excellent gift of chaos imo, it can be used to kill unit champs so characters have to except the following challenge (as its done at thestart before challenges) can be used to kill heroe characters, wizards and the lesser lords of men skaven and elves and, it can also be used to kill that damn arch lector before he van horstmens your ass straight to the aemon realm.

does characters mr still spread to units? someone mentioned something about it to me sometime last week but i forgot what they said.

as for the level 4 suggestion, i just sort of threw it in there as a possibility, i didnt expect you to change it as almost every army will likely now contain a level 3-4 and so, it might start to get a little boring, especially if you have other magic dominated lists

logan054
08-07-2010, 17:25
I the problem is you have to draw a line at what you can actually fit into a army, i think im going to have to leave some of these ideas for a bigger list

o0-NattyMcFatty-0o
09-07-2010, 00:54
sadly, that is true, which is why im surprised this years gt is only 2k. you'd think since units now need to be larger to make an impact that theyd put it up to at least 2250 if not 2500 points.

logan054
09-07-2010, 10:33
What the throne of skulls is still only 2k, that really sucks actually, i wouldnt mind going to one now but im now sure what i could really chop out of the list to actually get it down to 2k :( I guess i will just have to go to indie tournies then, i remember they do some good ones up in reading actually :)