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View Full Version : 8th Edition Hates & Loves - Poll Suggestions



Eternus
04-07-2010, 09:52
Ok, I did a post like this once before when 5th Edition 40K arrived, and it was suprising what came out - I plan, in a couple of weeks or so, to create two poll threads, one which asks what single rule change to from 7th to 8th you dislike most, and another that asks which you like best.

In this thread I am looking for suggestions for what options should be in the poll. I bet the most popular answers to the polls aren't what you might expect. for 5th Edition 40K, lots of people complained about things like TLOS and no more consolidation into a new CC, plus things like the Run rule lessening the value of units that already had Fleet rules and not being able to assault from transports etc. The actual results are below - I know it's for 40K, but it's just to prove that the results are harder to predict than you think, and show that when you really put someone on the spot and say pick only one rule, they might suprise you:

Which rule most requires attention?

Killing models that are out of sight 37%
Kill Points 18%
Wound Allocation 11%
Cover Saves 9%
All CC attacks against rear armour value 6%
True Line Of Sight 6%
Consolidation into new units 4%
Run 4%
Other 5%

Ok, who has a suggestion? Might not be able to include them all, so will use the most popular - remember, the single rule you dislike the most, and the single rule you like the most.

Thanks.

chamelion 6
04-07-2010, 09:55
The death of Autobreak as part of fear or terror.

I absolutely HATED that rule...................

Dutch_Digger
04-07-2010, 10:09
Horde rule i like most. It broadens the options for effective units. Going 10 wide was rarely a good idea.

Bad: skirmishers no longer see 360. it seems to nullify the use of alot of units... just guessing though

Shimmergloom
04-07-2010, 10:16
HATE:

1. removal of half vps for half destroyed units/monsters/characters.
2. no more vps for controlling the battlefield.
3. mounted characters can't get Look out Sir! in infantry units anymore.
4. always strike in initiative order.
5. Random charges(would be ok with it with some tweaking to make it less random. Like 2*M + D3 instead of M * 2D6).
6. Always pre-measuring, no more guess range weapons. This shouldn't be random-hammer.
7. Always taking a panic check even if like 1 orc shaman gets killed next to a unit of 50 orcs. stupid.
8. This stupid rule I have just read that says you have to use weapons other than hand weapons if you have them. So spear units have to use their spears and can't use their handweapons.

Like:

1. For the most part I like step-up. Especially concerning spears.
2. I like the horde rule.
3. I like most of the new terrain rules, since terrain has been horribly handled for decades now. The new magic terrain crap doesn't matter to me, cause I can't imagine people worrying about that mess. In 4 years I only saw special terrain from 7th placed like 1 time.
4. lots of new common items.
5. limit of 12 power dice to be used per turn.
6. chariots not auto-destroyed by S7 anymore.
7. harder to cancel ranks now.

Unsure of:
1. new spells.
2. scenarios. Time will tell if people actually use them or not.
3. % system.
4. skirmishers and how they'll work now. Although I do know that pretty much my favorite unit, squig hoppers, are now useless.
5. steadfast. For some units I like this. But for others I don't like that units that are already so effective can now fairly easily get stubborn for free.

peterburstrom
04-07-2010, 12:24
5. Random charges(would be ok with it with some tweaking to make it less random. Like 2*M + D3 instead of M * 2D6).


Well, if that actually was the rule I'd totally agree with you. A M 4 swordsman should not be able to run 48 inches.

I'm looking forward to the random charging. Way to many times games have been ruined by the players not being able to agree whether a charge is in range or not. By measuring first and then rolling, I think that you take out all the prestige of those damned fractions of inches. It is easier to agree whether the distance between the units is 8 or 9 inches, and then rolling, than jumping at each other's throats for the very same fractions.

Also, I'm looking forward to not needing to guess. No, it is not a necessary skill for a tactician. That's your little plastic cannon handler's job. And you elimininate the overguessing.

Tae
04-07-2010, 12:37
HATE:
6. Always pre-measuring, no more guess range weapons. This shouldn't be random-hammer..

Right so you don't like the system which removed the potential for randomness (pre-measuring and guess range weaons) and then proclaim that it shouldn't be random hammer?

Care to make your mind up at all?

Falkman
04-07-2010, 13:16
Hate:
The removal of VP for half-dead and fleeing units.

Love:
The new magic, all of it (except bound item rules).

Stumpy
04-07-2010, 13:58
Hate: loss of unit strength, LD tests to allow you to do things (reforms, marching, restraining frenzy), that flanking doesn't negate steadfast (that's ***).

Love: Magic shakeup, no more partials, fight in ranks.

Dungeon_Lawyer
04-07-2010, 14:26
HATE:

1. removal of half vps for half destroyed units/monsters/characters.
2. no more vps for controlling the battlefield.
3. mounted characters can't get Look out Sir! in infantry units anymore.
4. always strike in initiative order.
5. Random charges(would be ok with it with some tweaking to make it less random. Like 2*M + D3 instead of M * 2D6).
6. Always pre-measuring, no more guess range weapons. This shouldn't be random-hammer.
7. Always taking a panic check even if like 1 orc shaman gets killed next to a unit of 50 orcs. stupid.
8. This stupid rule I have just read that says you have to use weapons other than hand weapons if you have them. So spear units have to use their spears and can't use their handweapons.

Like:

1. For the most part I like step-up. Especially concerning spears.
2. I like the horde rule.
3. I like most of the new terrain rules, since terrain has been horribly handled for decades now. The new magic terrain crap doesn't matter to me, cause I can't imagine people worrying about that mess. In 4 years I only saw special terrain from 7th placed like 1 time.
4. lots of new common items.
5. limit of 12 power dice to be used per turn.
6. chariots not auto-destroyed by S7 anymore.
7. harder to cancel ranks now.

Unsure of:
1. new spells.
2. scenarios. Time will tell if people actually use them or not.
3. % system.
4. skirmishers and how they'll work now. Although I do know that pretty much my favorite unit, squig hoppers, are now useless.
5. steadfast. For some units I like this. But for others I don't like that units that are already so effective can now fairly easily get stubborn for free.

Shimmergloom (edited -thx falkman) summed it up beautifully-but for me move steadfast and the new terrain rules (TLOS in particualr) into the dislike section, pre-measuring makes me feel filthy...

Falkman
04-07-2010, 14:32
You quoted Shimmergloom though.

rtunian
04-07-2010, 14:47
hates: always fighting in initiative order, panic from us1-4
loves: new formation bonuses, new movement rules

falkman are you sure you don't get vp for enemy fleeing at end of game (assuming use of a scenario that uses vp) ?

Tae
04-07-2010, 15:07
falkman are you sure you don't get vp for enemy fleeing at end of game (assuming use of a scenario that uses vp) ?

Several people have searched hard for it in the book, but none have found any reference to it existing anymore.

Sygerrik
04-07-2010, 16:23
Like:
Requiring ranks to break ranks
Hate:
New skirmisher formation

Rikkjourd
04-07-2010, 16:54
Like so far, only actually played once but read alot: Horde, fight in one extra rank, step up, fire in two ranks and volley fire, new charge system including easier to determine when in range.

Dislike: Overpowered BRB lores, keep friendly units 1" apart, keep models 1" from impassable terrain, random terrain crap (I expect this to be optional in the future as a player-invented rule), some of the common items. EDIT: Also not too fond of the new skrimmisher rules, but I may change my mind after a few games.

(I anyone wonders I have woc, empire, TK, OK, O&G, skaven and have recently been drooling over DE)

Shimmergloom
04-07-2010, 19:01
I meant to say M + 2D6 instead of M * 2D6.


Right so you don't like the system which removed the potential for randomness (pre-measuring and guess range weaons) and then proclaim that it shouldn't be random hammer?

Care to make your mind up at all?

I originally wrote it as pre-schoolhammer, because that's what I believe the rule is, a rule for little kids. I thought it sounded too harsh, so changed the wording to random hammer, probably because I was looking at the rules for charging above it and that's what was in my mind.

Tae
04-07-2010, 19:46
I originally wrote it as pre-schoolhammer, because that's what I believe the rule is, a rule for little kids. I thought it sounded too harsh, so changed the wording to random hammer, probably because I was looking at the rules for charging above it and that's what was in my mind.

Ah, fairy snuff.

Can't say I agree with your view but at least it's cleared it up.

Ghazbad_Facestompa
04-07-2010, 21:33
I don't like TLoS, the weakening of LO,S! for mounted models in infantry units, and the "must use special weapons".

However, I like Steadfast, Horde, Shooting in Two Ranks with Volley Fire, the removal of guessing (only reason I didn't take lobbas before was the need for practice, and I never played anyone who was a good shot with those things), and the higher DD:PD (meaning the Spirit Totem is no longer a requirement).

Shimmergloom
04-07-2010, 22:10
That reminds me, did they change the bsb at all in the wording? Up through 6th the bsb needed 2 hands to use, then in 7th that was removed.

Did they bring that back or not?

I often use a Black Orc as my bsb for greenskins, so would like for him to still have his 2 choppas and great weapon to use.

DaemonReign
05-07-2010, 03:38
HATE:
3. mounted characters can't get Look out Sir! in infantry units anymore.


Oh come on.. That rule WAS ridiculous if anything.. "Hey Sir! There's a cannon-ball comming your way let me just jump two meters into the air and get that thing for ya!"

As far as the rest goes I pretty much agree. All though I must say that a unit taking a charge in the flank/rear should lose its ranks/steadfast etc - at the very least if already engaged in the front. I know pulling the "realistic" argument is ridiculous, but still..

DaemonReign
05-07-2010, 03:41
So s7 wounds no longer autokills chariots? Sweet. I'm building a burning-chariot and a crusher-chariot as we speak.. Just asked about this in another thread even. Great. Thanks. Now I'll build more of them.. Those new plastic crushers come in packs of 3 right?

DaemonReign
05-07-2010, 03:46
Also.. I am very sceptical about this 12 dice cap om power dice. I firmly believe such things should be restricted by point-costs rather than hard-caps. If you want to go magic heavy there should be no hinderance to it - but of course your cc-capability will be less because you spent your points on wizards instead of killy stuff.

The % instead of slot-system seems to free things up - unlike the power dice cap - so that one I am initially liking on pure principle.

Shimmergloom
05-07-2010, 06:02
Oh come on.. That rule WAS ridiculous if anything.. "Hey Sir! There's a cannon-ball comming your way let me just jump two meters into the air and get that thing for ya!"

As far as the rest goes I pretty much agree. All though I must say that a unit taking a charge in the flank/rear should lose its ranks/steadfast etc - at the very least if already engaged in the front. I know pulling the "realistic" argument is ridiculous, but still..

The rule was just poorly worded. There's no reason to not just say that Look Out Sir meant the character gets a warning and then jumps out of the way and instead it hit a rank and file model. Not that the rank in filer jumped in the way of the cannonball or whatever.

It's no more reasonable to say that a clanrat so honors his chieftan that he pushes him out of the way to take the hit himself, then it is to say that a spearelf can't yell out that a cannonball is coming and his horse mounted leader quickly dodges to get out the way of the attack.

If that same mounted character in a unit of silverhelms can dodge a cannonball, then he can dodge it in a unit of spears.

Eternus
05-07-2010, 06:42
Ok, the list is growing nicely, and I'm sure that after this week that it will grow further - maybe with things no one has mentioned at all yet. We have lots of threads discussing the various merits of the new edition, so this one doesn't want to evolve into that kind of thread just yet - one the poll results are in, I'd love to discuss the most popular points.