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gloriousbattle
04-07-2010, 22:53
Like most people, I guess, I enjoy Abnett, but I think that the really best 40K novel I ever read was Inquisitor (now retitled Draco) by Ian Watson, which was a real hoot. It is definitely older 40K (one of the main characters is a Squat) but it was well written and fun.

Sadly, the last book in the series didn't live up to it, and was actually pretty badly written, but I have very fond memories of the first one.

What about you? Any authors that you particularly like, or don't like, for that matter? I am always interested in knowing what I should read and what I should avoid.

gloriousbattle
04-07-2010, 22:54
Also, not really on topic, since it's WHF how good a read is Konrad?

Zothos
04-07-2010, 22:59
Inquisitor was quite silly actually. I find it difficult to believe how trivial it was to enter the Emperors palace, and that is just one of the many things that made it hard to suspend belief in that book.

Best author is either Abnett or Dembski-Bowden

Green-is-best
04-07-2010, 23:07
Inquisitor was quite silly actually. I find it difficult to believe how trivial it was to enter the Emperors palace, and that is just one of the many things that made it hard to suspend belief in that book.

How dare he enjoy it!

Zothos
04-07-2010, 23:09
Was not criticizing him.
I was merely giving my opinion on the book.
If others liked it, good for them.

Am i not allowed an opinion?

gloriousbattle
04-07-2010, 23:12
Inquisitor was quite silly actually.

Sure it was, but 40K is silly. In fact, it makes sense for such an ignorant society to develop hero tales that are beyond unbelievable.

In fact, I once saw a neat little piece someone had written in response to the question "Why are the space marines ten-foot-tall-army-killers in the fluff and the fiction, but, in battle, really only worth about twice their number of IG, if even that?" The answer the author came up with was that the rules indicate the reality of how the space marines fight, while the fiction represents legend and Imperial propaganda.

Karl MkVI
04-07-2010, 23:43
In fact, I once saw a neat little piece someone had written in response to the question "Why are the space marines ten-foot-tall-army-killers in the fluff and the fiction, but, in battle, really only worth about twice their number of IG, if even that?" The answer the author came up with was that the rules indicate the reality of how the space marines fight, while the fiction represents legend and Imperial propaganda.

Totally disagree with this. the rules portray space marines the way they do because it's necessary so that they can be used in a tabletop game that is based on balance. simple. marines in fluff are 'real' marines. marines in TT are toned down for balance's sake.

gloriousbattle
05-07-2010, 02:22
Totally disagree with this. the rules portray space marines the way they do because it's necessary so that they can be used in a tabletop game that is based on balance. simple. marines in fluff are 'real' marines. marines in TT are toned down for balance's sake.

But there is no reason for that. GW could easily just make really big space marines, charge comparatively more for them, and write stats for them that reflect the army killer repuation. In one issue of WD, which I (sadly) no longer own, they actually wrote up a version of the Space Marine that corresponded with the fluff, and the rules were very different.

In fact, I was always a big champion of the idea that the reason GW fluff keeps changing, and is often so contradictory, is a reflection of this same fact. The different fluff and stories reflect the different understanding and agendas of various people in the 40K universe.

Thus, for example, robots are a fact of life in both the armies and civil society of 40K according to the original fluff, but now they are heretical devices banned since the Horus Heresy. Why can't these two viewpoints simply represent different attitudes held by various Inquisitors and Adeptus Mechanicus, or perhaps just in different areas of the Imperium? It would not be unreasonable for an Imperial Guard army at one end of the galaxy to be using war robots, while another a few sectors away thought that such devices no longer existed.

Green-is-best
05-07-2010, 06:17
Was not criticizing him.
I was merely giving my opinion on the book.
If others liked it, good for them.

Am i not allowed an opinion?

Its all about the phrasing.

AndrewGPaul
05-07-2010, 07:25
Inquisitor and Space Marine are examples of an older age. Personally, I think they are the two best novels at portraying the techno-superstition and corruption of the Imperium.

Other than those two, I'd recommend Matt Farrer's Enforcer omnibus and anything by Sandy Mitchell.

Orthodox
05-07-2010, 08:11
Matthew Farrer fullstop

His part of tales of heresy by itself makes the book worth buying, although there is a passable Dan Abnett story about Custodes. The contribution by Graham McNeill is more like a detraction, from warhammer in general and from my life, so if you get it you should be sure to tear that part out and burn it, to resist temptation. frsrs, it is about the Emperor, like, talking. That would be interesting if it were actually the Emperor pontificating, but of course it is an author's invented dialogue, so it is not personal thoughts of the greatest man to ever live; he just sounds like a ponce who does not seem remotely capable of conquering half a galaxy.

...at any rate, Matthew Farrer writes very acceptable novels, and After Desh'ea is at least a little bit moving.


they actually wrote up a version of the Space Marine that corresponded with the fluff, and the rules were very different.
No, they didn't. The idea of "movie marines" was literally that: if there were a movie about space marines, and every marine were an over-the-top rambo. No appeal can ever be made to rules, because they only allow for a human(oid) to exist in a range of two or three levels - a resilience, strength, or agility of three, four, or very occasionally, five. The only options are regular or better, and a slight chance at amazing, which arithmetically isn't much more than regular.

gloriousbattle
05-07-2010, 15:51
No, they didn't. The idea of "movie marines" was literally that: if there were a movie about space marines, and every marine were an over-the-top rambo.

But in the Fluff and the stories, every marine is an over the top Rambo. Isn't that the same thing?

BTW, has anybody got that WD issue? I'd love to get a pdf of those particular rules. :p

Also, I never heard of Tales of Heresy. Is it still in print? I love the short story books, like Deathwing.

mob16151
05-07-2010, 17:34
I enjoy Dan Abnett, Dembski-Bowden,Gav Thorpe, and Sandy Mitchell.

Kage2020
05-07-2010, 17:38
Aaron Dembski-Bowden has entered the circle of my favourite 40k authors along with Watson, Farrer, Thorpe and Abnett. Well, Abnett if you ignore the later Gaunt's Ghosts books. ;)

Kage

Orthodox
05-07-2010, 20:09
Thorpe

So Darkest Angel aside, I started reading one of his rogue trader books, and I couldn't get past the extremely pointless first paragraph.


Well, Abnett if you ignore the later Gaunt's Ghosts books. ;)

Kage

Yeah? they are fairly insulated from the wider setting, so any transgressions of canon do not really step on anyone's toes, and he seems more comfortable than in the early books. I think Armour of Contempt and Blood Pact are unassailable, if not amazing.

gloriousbattle
05-07-2010, 22:15
So Darkest Angel aside, I started reading one of his rogue trader books, and I couldn't get past the extremely pointless first paragraph.



Yeah? they are fairly insulated from the wider setting, so any transgressions of canon do not really step on anyone's toes, and he seems more comfortable than in the early books. I think Armour of Contempt and Blood Pact are unassailable, if not amazing.

I've noted that Abnett seems to be something of an erratic genius. This is not the first time I've heard someone say that they loved parts of his writing and hated other parts.

So far, I have really enjoyed the Eisenhorn novels, and the two Gaunt books that I have read.

Kage2020
05-07-2010, 22:49
So Darkest Angel aside, I started reading one of his rogue trader books, and I couldn't get past the extremely pointless first paragraph.
What "rogue trader" books, out of interest?

But fair enough. I felt the same way about Harry Potter and Xenology, but both are apparently liked by some people. :D


I think Armour of Contempt and Blood Pact are unassailable, if not amazing.
Opinions vary.

And there's probably a point to be had there. ;)

Kage

Sir_Turalyon
06-07-2010, 00:14
Simon Spurrier... well, he wrote whole two 40k books of which Fire Warrior was horrible, but other one was easily best thing BL ever published.

Gav Thrope and Sandy Mitchell are my other tvo favourites, every book of theirs I'v read was more than worth money spent on it, which is above BL standard.


<understatement> I don't really like Abnett </understatement>; I forced myslef through first two (or three?) tomes of Gaunt's Ghosts, throwing the book at wall every ten pages, before realising it's not going to get better. His Horus Heresy books were very underhelming as well.

gloriousbattle
06-07-2010, 00:37
<understatement> I don't really like Abnett </understatement>; I forced myslef through first two (or three?) tomes of Gaunt's Ghosts, throwing the book at wall every ten pages, before realising it's not going to get better. His Horus Heresy books were very underhelming as well.

Only books I ever did that with were Donaldson's Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unrepentant Whiner. I don't know how I made it through the first trilogy, and the second one only got worse. In the end, I speed-read through the last half of the last book, because despite myself, I had to find out how it ended.

Does that make Donaldson a bad writer? Well, he got my money, and I did eventually finish the damn thing. Draw your own conclusion.:mad:

IcedAnimals
06-07-2010, 02:39
I also don't care for Mr Abnett's work. If he writes a book about something I want to read it won't prevent me from reading it he just seems so middle of the line.

Aaron Dembski-bowden wins my favorite author. Probably followed by Anthony Reynolds. I will say this, I hope they never ever hire Rob Sanders again. After just finishing Redemption Corp the book was horrible. It was filled with so many fluff inaccuracies you wonder if he did any research at all. Things such as multi armed/ clawed orks, deffkoptas the size of ac-130s (and crewed by as many people), heavy bolters shooting tiny bullets that can go clean through you and not kill. And imperial factions with more infighting than the orks they are suppose to be dealing with.

So far I have read 3 of ADB's works and highly enjoyed all of them. I just hope he does a sisters of battle novel sometime :P

Mannimarco
06-07-2010, 02:50
I gotta say Abnett, just really enjoy his books.

oh and Goto (no Im not trolling, seriously) just for the comedy value. Theres just somthing entertaining about his work, even if its putting the book down after almost every page to go "wow......really?!"

I actually facepalmed at the braying warlock incident

vforvenator
06-07-2010, 03:07
Like most people, I guess, I enjoy Abnett, but I think that the really best 40K novel I ever read was Inquisitor (now retitled Draco) by Ian Watson, which was a real hoot. It is definitely older 40K (one of the main characters is a Squat) but it was well written and fun.

Sadly, the last book in the series didn't live up to it, and was actually pretty badly written, but I have very fond memories of the first one.

What about you? Any authors that you particularly like, or don't like, for that matter? I am always interested in knowing what I should read and what I should avoid.

Also, not really on topic, since it's WHF how good a read is Konrad?
Ian Watson is in a league of his own normally, never mind within the BL, so you won't find anything quite like his stuff. His Space Marine novel should be read too if you can find it, but it's stranger and more perverse than the fluff will ever be (sadly) Read the Deathwing anthology too, it has very good pieces by the likes of Storm Constantine, Charles Stross et al from the early days of GW fiction, when they aimed for a student age, 18-29 yr old readership.
Bill Kings' Space Wolves saga are pretty well-written but his popular Felix and Gotrek series I reckon is dire.
And Konrad is in the same boat as Ian Watsons' stuff: the fluff is no longer exactly as presented but the writing is just amazing. Well worth reading. The background indeed is so bleak and nihilistic it's been a big inspiration for work of my own I'm writing now, and my world and the Warhammer one bear hardly any resemblance to each other at all. David Ferrings' real name I've heard, he's an editor who writes very little but I can't remember what he's called (he edited and wrote intro for 2001 edition of Monsieur Zenith the Albino). Hope this helps

Sikkukkut
06-07-2010, 03:08
Opinions vary.

And there's probably a point to be had there. ;)



I've said it before - every 40K novel is someone's greatest-thing-ever-ZOMG-you-guys book and someone else's argh-this-isn't-fit-for-toilet-paper book. Those two people usually end up on the same discussion thread together.

To answer the question: probably Dan Abnett and, if authors who've moved on count, Si Spurrier. Other authors have strong points and those two have weak ones, but those are the two names that will automatically bump a book up my to-read list.

woodfin
06-07-2010, 03:20
Screw it I will say it, Ben Counter! Gav is cool too.

Hellebore
06-07-2010, 03:33
I sort of think of Ian Watson as the John Blanche of 40k writing. Emotive, frenetic, wierd and only liked by intelligent people...:p :angel:

Gordon Rennie's Execution Hour and Shadow Point are two of my favs as are Mat Farrer's Calpurnia books.

Basically anything that isn't just war pr0n. Abnett's books I like the most are the Eisenhorn trilogy, despite the anti grav planets etc.

Hellebore

SabrX
06-07-2010, 03:52
I love reading Sandy Mitchell's Ciaphas Cain series. I look forward to reading his next installment, "The Emperor's Finest".

lethlis
06-07-2010, 05:13
Ciaphus Cain is hilarious and well written, everything by abnett from comics to novels other than the ravenor series I have enjoyed and ravenor was not the writing it was just the character. Eisenhorn was amazing. William King is high up there as well, Gotrek and Felix is a hoot. I enjoy most 40k novels I read. I hope to own more

Artein
06-07-2010, 12:22
1. Abnett
2. McNeil
3. Counter

Haven't read A D-B yet. Form Gav only Fantasy stuff. No Ciaphas Cain as well. I've only read Faith and Fire and The Flight of the Eisenstain from James Swallow, not bad but nothing great either.
Lord of the Night was an awesome novel, but that's only one book, so I can't judge Simon Spurrier.

gloriousbattle
06-07-2010, 13:26
And Konrad is in the same boat as Ian Watsons' stuff: the fluff is no longer exactly as presented but the writing is just amazing. Well worth reading.

Thanks, man!

Sai-Lauren
06-07-2010, 14:34
Abnett and Mitchell.

IMO, Blood Pact was probably the worst of the series so far (maybe a 6 out of 10, with Necropolis hitting maybe an 8.5-9 and the rest up at 7-8), but is almost a case of just showing Gaunt as an active soldier again after the events of Only In Death - call it "Ibram Gaunt comes out of semi-retirement and slaps some enemy around a bit" and you're about there. :) But it does make chaos forces into real human beings, rather than just lumps of flesh on the other side of a targetting sight.

(Speaking of, does anyone know what this arc's called?)

Farrer - Crossfire was good, Legacy poor (the Gauda Prime Effect anyone?) and Blind was ok.

McNeill - what I've read's good, but need to read more of his stuff to get a better opinion. And the only Gav I've got is the Raven's Flight audio, which I think is very good.

King's Space Wolves stories were good - after he left, the amount of plot armour on Ragnar (and especially Gotrek over the border in the other universe) just became ludicrous. But Farseer was a good idea wasted.

Not ready any Goto, so I'm not going to comment on the worst author - I will however say that I found both of the Dark Angel heresy novels a real pain to get through - I'm still trying to get through the second one.

TheAmazingMikey
06-07-2010, 14:54
My favourite 40K novel is by far Helsreach. Really can't recommend that book highly enough. Other than that, Nick Kyme has impressed me with his Salamanders series.

Abnett writes enjoyable novels I find, but his comics are all absolutely dire.

What do people think of the soul drinkers stuff? I have been contemplating picking up the omnibus but I'm not too sure.

Artein
06-07-2010, 15:22
(Speaking of, does anyone know what this arc's called?)
The Victory I believe.... or something similar.

edit: yup
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dan_Abnett#Gaunt.27s_Ghosts_series

Iracundus
06-07-2010, 15:36
Inquisitor was quite silly actually. I find it difficult to believe how trivial it was to enter the Emperors palace, and that is just one of the many things that made it hard to suspend belief in that book.


The characters were guided by an outside force, possibly the Starchild, working through the Tarot card held by Jaq Draco. The characters never specifically mention the exact path but it took a whole year of constant maneuvering just from the starport on Terra to the Emperor even with this outside guidance. The narrator certainly suggests that perhaps the path they took is not repeatable, and only existed in that one specific window of time due to now non-existent opportunities. The tugging of the card allowed them to exploit these opportunities of circumstance and also the intervention of this force allowed them to flit through into the Emperor's throne room through a particular warped/frozen moment of time. Even then after all this outside force assistance, the Emperor sensed them and admitted that a part of him had followed and observed their progress and intrusion into his palace. This means the Emperor had chosen to not intervene or stop their progress.

FabricatorGeneralMike
06-07-2010, 20:17
I just finished reading Ian Watsons 'Space Marine'. I thought it was one of the best 40k books ever written. I loved the interaction between the 'brothers of Treznor'. The warrior brotherhood it made the Imperial Fists out to be was one of wonder and amazment. I loved how the gene-seed and psycho-indoctronation make the fists want to seek pain, but they have to supress this.

I really enjoyed how Lex attoned at the end of the book. I thought it was very fitting for a Fist.

I think all Black Libary writters if writing about Marines should have to read this book first.

10/10, this was the 40k I fell inlove with, the totally nuts galaxy, 10,000 years of tradition and superstition. It was grimdark, not grim-dark-dark-grim-grim-dark-dark-grim for grimdarks sake crap we have today for the most part.

I really like the Rogue Trader books by Andy Hoare, it's a shame he left GW. I hope he can finish off the sceries as a free lance writer because I want to know what happened to the Clan Arcadius and Lucian Garret. I hope he usurped the fleet from Gurney :shifty: ;)

I really enjoyed the Shira books from Mathew Farrer. I hope to see more of them one day.

I would also love to see another Pre-Heresy Alpha Legion book.

I really like some of Dan Abnett's stuff, I find his short stories are usually better then the novels, but not always. I really liked the first half of Blood Games, the second half...meh.

The Voice was great, well written. I like the fact we finally get to see what a Black Ship finally looks like on the inside.

The Last Church I found to be amazing. nuff said, of course YMMV ;)

After Desh'ea I really found myself liking Kharn and Angron after reading this. The only thing I find absured is that the Emperor finally finds another long lost primarch, communica's are sent throught the crusade fleets cheering... but the Emperor has to teleport him away because he doesn't want to help out his long lost son? :wtf: I think the Angron story is full of crap. He would of taken the Warhounds down there and kicked some ass and brought the world under complience. The whole Angron story has bugged me since the beginning honestly :eyebrows:

Farseer Dave
06-07-2010, 20:35
Yo guys ,

I love 40k lore so most stuff Authors write is gold to me,

Special mention to Grayham McNeill , A Thousand Sons was one Awesome Read , best book of the Heresy Series thus far imho.

Farseer Dave.