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View Full Version : Confirming a suspicion re buying spells.



jaxom
04-07-2010, 23:11
So, the rules for generating spells are interesting and somewhat rewarding for higher level mages (higher chance of spell duplication) which is nice. Regarding duplicate spells, however, I want to make sure that I am reading things the same way others are...

If I took a Slann and a Skink Priest, both with Heavens, I would be likely to have overlap between casters and have to shift spells. What if I took the Focus of Mystery (or whatever it is if I have the wrong name) which allows me to know an entire lore (essentially Loremaster in the new rules). In that case I have paid for each of the spells for the Slann and the Skink Priest can generate his spells without any interference?

theunwantedbeing
04-07-2010, 23:23
Only spells that have been rolled for are ever counted with regards to duplicate spells.
If you didn't roll for your spells then if somebody rolls the same spell, they aren't forced to swap if for a different one.

bubafett
05-07-2010, 00:22
so can you take 2 slanns that know all spells take the same lore?

Necromancy Black
05-07-2010, 00:38
Yep, that's perfectly fine.

jaxom
06-07-2010, 17:54
I would assume so. It exempts anything you have "paid for" and the Slann benefits are indeed bought.

Mr_Rose
06-07-2010, 18:41
I would assume so. It exempts anything you have "paid for" and the Slann benefits are indeed bought.
It exempts anything you haven't "generated randomly" to be precise, which also covers the numerous special characters that "know all spells in <Lore>" without actually paying extra, as well as those models and units whose spells are determined by some other factor, not just bought things. Which, interestingly, seems to mean the ring of volans (IIR the name C; it's the one that generates a random spell) can't have a duplicate of any of your battle wizard's spells.

Quannum
06-07-2010, 22:16
I'm sorry but what has been suggested in this thread is wrong.

Let's have a look at the rules:

The New BRB clearly states that "each spell can only be known once in the same army" (p.490, bottom left) with only TWO EXCEPTIONS:

1) If a model has no choice over which SPELLS (not LORE) it knows, either because it is pre-fixed, or because it has 'bought' a specific SPELL as part of army selection.

2)If the army book or spell lore clearly states that a model can exchange another spell for the spell in question.

The BRB also has one very important sentence that people miss out on, p.490 top right:

"If you cannot (replace the spell with another from the same lore) because all other spells have been taken by other Wizards for example, THEN [THESE] EXTRA SPELLS SLOTS [ARE] LOST."


SO HOW DOES THIS APPLY TO THE ABOVE SCENARIO WITH A LOREMASTER SLANN AND A SKINK PRIEST?

Well, does it fit either of the exceptions? Obviously, 2) doesn't apply in your scenario, and importantly, 1) doesn't either - the Skink is pre-fixed to the LORE of Heavens, but still has to randomly generate his spells.

A model with Loremaster, (e.g. The Slann) is not fixed to a set of spells either, he is still free to select a LORE, and the Loremaster then gives him all those spells. The BRB is talking about model's such as a Vampire Lord with the Book of Arkhan, which has a pre-set, universal spell attached to it (VH Danse Macabre).

Thusly, a Loremaster basically precludes other Wizards from selecting that Lore unless either of the two exceptions comes into play. Furthermore, if you have multiple Wizards, you can choose the order in which you generate spells. Loremaster basically means that when you reach the spell generation stage, you auto-generate all spells from your pre-selected Lore. So, in the later example, Two Slanns with Focus of Mystery cannot select the same Lore - as soon as your First Slann generates, he uses up that Lore. The second must now select another Lore

Q

Quannum
06-07-2010, 22:19
Only spells that have been rolled for are ever counted with regards to duplicate spells.
If you didn't roll for your spells then if somebody rolls the same spell, they aren't forced to swap if for a different one.

I'd like to see a reference for this, please?

Q

Kugruk
06-07-2010, 22:22
I'd like to see a reference for this, please?

Q

In the new BRB, right before the Lore listings.

Also, no mention of being able to select different lores. The Slann, even though he can choose which lores to take, has no control over which SPELLS he can take, which makes the skink priest eligible to take duplicate heavens spells.

Balerion
07-07-2010, 06:11
I'm sorry but what has been suggested in this thread is wrong.

Let's have a look at the rules:

The New BRB clearly states that "each spell can only be known once in the same army" (p.490, bottom left) with only TWO EXCEPTIONS:

1) If a model has no choice over which SPELLS (not LORE) it knows, either because it is pre-fixed, or because it has 'bought' a specific SPELL as part of army selection.

2)If the army book or spell lore clearly states that a model can exchange another spell for the spell in question.


Nope, you're entirely incorrect.

The two examples you quoted are simply two illustrations among many possibilites that conform to the general rule presented immediately before them. The lines you need to read:

"Ordinarily, each spell can only be known once in the same army. The only exceptions are where a spell is not generated randomly, such as: <your quotation here>"

If a character can pay to learn a complete lore those spells are not generated randomly.

Quannum
07-07-2010, 09:57
Ah I see, thanks for the correction. I'll need to let our LGC know as we play it the way I illustrated.

Cookies for all.

Q

Quannum
07-07-2010, 09:59
So hang on, if I take a Mage with the Seerstaff, and an Archmage with Silver Wand, can I take Lore of Metal on both, and have the chance to duplicate my Seerstaff Mage's spells with the Archmage?

I.e. If my Seerstaff mage selects Enchanted Blades and Glimmering Robe when selecting the army list, can my Archmage take them too if he generates them randomly?

Q

Mr_Rose
07-07-2010, 12:17
So hang on, if I take a Mage with the Seerstaff, and an Archmage with Silver Wand, can I take Lore of Metal on both, and have the chance to duplicate my Seerstaff Mage's spells with the Archmage?

I.e. If my Seerstaff mage selects Enchanted Blades and Glimmering Robe when selecting the army list, can my Archmage take them too if he generates them randomly?

Q
Sure.
The seerstaff lets you pick rather than rolling, so you didn't select those spells randomly.