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View Full Version : So, if its is BTs next...



axels15
27-05-2005, 01:01
If the next book is Black Templars, should I expect any drastic changes from what we have now? I mean, I love them now, but i need to decide if I want them. As it is, I do want to finish the army, but I hope there won't be too many changes, anyone got any ideas?

Lainer
27-05-2005, 01:03
I don't think threre will be any big changes. Mostly updating.

axels15
27-05-2005, 01:17
I don't think threre will be any big changes. Mostly updating.

thats good, a lot of people seem to think that the list is broken, so i guess itll make them happy, but i truly don't think the list is that bad (being beaten many times with them, even though i can modestly say that im not so bad at the game itself) and I don't think it needed too much changes. Maybe giving another slight downfall to the hit on 3s rule, but only slight. I can't wait for it to come out

Tastyfish
27-05-2005, 01:22
Having to pay for vows has been mentioned, but apart from that they arn't much different from normal marines to mean the book is radically different. Scouts in squads doesn't seem too extreme nor does anything else. Probably just more background a some special characters to pad out the fluff a bit more.

axels15
27-05-2005, 01:29
Probably just more background a some special characters to pad out the fluff a bit more.

Just what I love to hear- More background and characters, although i probably won't use the characters, I love my Champion, would never part with him, my chaplains great too.

6th and Final Champion
27-05-2005, 01:47
Really? I dont think the Emperors champion is that good....

Karhedron
27-05-2005, 08:51
From what I have heard, vows are no longer free. Instead they are bought for the whole army at a certain points cost. The free bonuses associated with the vows was the most common complaint with Black Templars since they effectively give something for nothing.

One rumour was that the Black Templars would also get another Land Raider variant but considering I have not heard anything to back this up I would say this is looking increasingly unlikely.

Nukem
27-05-2005, 09:01
Really? I dont think the Emperors champion is that good....


Really.. I think hes awsome.

I'd like to see some minor changes.. maybe a special piece of wargear or something. And a special character or two. That would be sweet :D

philbrad2
27-05-2005, 09:53
Sword Betherin will be a new unit methinks, something akin to a vet, close combat, honour guard style squad, possibly for the EC. ENGEL is playtesting the list currently, from other rumours abounding the BT are pretty much unchanged apart from the fact there'll be less of them by the time those vows are paid for :evilgrin:

:chrome:

Cypher
27-05-2005, 19:04
Im guessing that existing armies will be mostly compatable with the new book, but it's also likely that there will be options allowing different sorts of armies.

EmperorsChamp01
28-05-2005, 05:07
I dont think that the voes should be paid for. Every SM army has its own perk and Ours is that we can choose one of Four Vows for free. I hope the make an Honour Guard style HQ or Elite choice. I hope they make the challange rule more Clear. I heard that they are going to relise it in about 4 or 5 months along with the new Assult Terminators.

Cypher
28-05-2005, 08:22
Not really: what do vanilla lists (or even Traite lists) get for free? Vows present a discernable, army-wide bonus for nothing. The only comparable benefit I can think of is the drop trooper or Close Order Drill doctrines for guard, and even those have drawbacks.

Dakkagor
28-05-2005, 09:12
BTs can get free vows over my cold corpse!

but on a more serious note, they need to ditch that "run towards the enemy screaming when we get shot" rule. Stupid and broken.

Ornithoticus
28-05-2005, 10:31
sword bretherin will be terminatirs with powerswords and shields according to myy local redshirt, and he says hes seen em

Karhedron
28-05-2005, 21:30
they need to ditch that "run towards the enemy screaming when we get shot" rule. Stupid and broken.
I gather that it has been toned down but not dropped all together. Now they only run foward D6" instead of 2D6". This means they are still likely to gain the penalites such as moving out of cover but are less likely to get a free assault out of it.

Antaeus
28-05-2005, 21:56
To be honest, I never thought the Vows or Righteous Zela were broken: but that's coming from a Templars player. I can only think of one break test I failed in my entire career - I reckon it's a cool way of making them different.

However, if higher costs will get rid of people whinging at my Templars the moment they approach the table, and get rid of the people who only use them for the rules, it's worth it.

Rick_1138
28-05-2005, 22:44
BE advised this is basic info i have heard from a manager i know.

Apparantley the BT codex is actually going to be either called or subheaded the "crusade marines" or something to that tune and will cover BT, IF, CF and all of those succesor chapters.

However this is only what i have heard but did give interesting point of conversation in the shop!

axels15
29-05-2005, 00:52
sword bretherin will be terminatirs with powerswords and shields according to myy local redshirt, and he says hes seen em

while that sounds AMAZING, it kinda sucks cause i already have a unit of termies with lighting claws, but im not going to able to resist these new guys. PLEASE let them come in a box set, im not rich

EDIT: although now that i think about it, even if hes says hes seen it, the red shirts usually know nothing.

Witch Hunter
29-05-2005, 01:02
Apparantley the BT codex is actually going to be either called or subheaded the "crusade marines" or something to that tune and will cover BT, IF, CF and all of those succesor chapters.

Just a minor point, but the IF(Imperial Fists) are the First Founding Legion of which the BT, CF, and others are the successor chapters of. And I may be wrong, but since the IF are presented with traits in the back of Codex:SM, I doubt if any rules from Codex:BT(or Crusade Marines) will be official IF rules.

My two pence...

devolutionary
29-05-2005, 06:18
Just a minor point, but the IF(Imperial Fists) are the First Founding Legion of which the BT, CF, and others are the successor chapters of. And I may be wrong, but since the IF are presented with traits in the back of Codex:SM, I doubt if any rules from Codex:BT(or Crusade Marines) will be official IF rules.

My two pence...

Very good point. Also, the Fists are based on and around Terra (at least last time I looked). They're the home guard defensive specialists, IMO. Sure, they have their excursions and afternoon picnics in the warzones of the Galaxy, but they aren't a crusading chapter like the BTs or CFs. Their zealotry and code of honour is close, but their methods a lot different.

As for the new BT codex, well, I would like to see them strip back just a small amount of their "uber kewlness" and rather phenomenal special rules. I don't think they need anywhere near as much as many claim, but a small amount of revision to make them competative rather than overbearing would be nice.

On a more personal note, the best thing to ever to come out of anything BT related is a) rules for Salamanders, and b) the Emperor's Champion. He makes a blodoy nice Chaos Lord model :evilgrin:

boogle
29-05-2005, 15:44
there ARE some minor changes, but i'm not allowed to tell, until instructed to

Duymon
30-05-2005, 05:08
I honestly don't think the Emp Champ needs some new wargear O_o. How many characters in warhammer 40k have a weapon that can alternate between rulewise, a power weapon and a pfist, AND be able to carry a ranged weapon O_o. Emp Champ is perhaps the most flexible IP for an SM army outright :D If they give the Champ even more toys then I want to have some of his black swards in my army ^_^

Also BT should have to pay for their vows, even SM chapters with traits need to take disadvantages.

taintedarchon
30-05-2005, 05:10
I collected Black Templars a while back, and loved them. But I sort of stopped for a while there and have been wanting to go back to them. Honestly, I did find them to be a bit over the top. They weren't so utterly broken that you couldn't beat them, but it felt like they were given too many freebies. I love the color scheme, love the concept, and I hope this new codex will give the army a good overall flavor to work with.

And it would be neat to see a couple of special characters.

boogle
30-05-2005, 07:35
I honestly don't think the Emp Champ needs some new wargear O_o. How many characters in warhammer 40k have a weapon that can alternate between rulewise, a power weapon and a pfist, AND be able to carry a ranged weapon O_o. Emp Champ is perhaps the most flexible IP for an SM army outright :D If they give the Champ even more toys then I want to have some of his black swards in my army ^_^

Also BT should have to pay for their vows, even SM chapters with traits need to take disadvantages.

Logan Grimnars Axe can do the same as The EC

EmperorsChamp01
30-05-2005, 12:39
Well I dont know about All you guys on here but I play BT and I git my **** handed to me everytime. Yea there are alot of freebies. EC is great but they should make him eather have to have him and lower points or not have to have him and up the points. Well I heard that the Sword Breatherin are going to be Normal Assult Termies, They are going to remake the old BT Tac squad with the new Tac squad and new Plastic Scout guys. And the Last time I checked the CF are not Crusading armies. They should make a CC termie like the BA fruioso. That be nice.

Inquisitor Engel
30-05-2005, 18:22
*flips through his BT Codex*

Expect drastic balancing changes. All of the units are tweaked a little. You even lose access to a couple of units other than Devastators due to their character.

Your current army will work fine, but your lists will need major overhauls.

Again, that's all I'm revealing, don't bother asking for any questions, because you won't get any answers.

Inquis. Jaeger
30-05-2005, 18:32
Sounds cool. Templars have become too easy to win with for me.

Tadite
30-05-2005, 18:45
*flips through his BT Codex*

Expect drastic balancing changes. All of the units are tweaked a little. You even lose access to a couple of units other than Devastators due to their character.

Your current army will work fine, but your lists will need major overhauls.

Again, that's all I'm revealing, don't bother asking for any questions, because you won't get any answers.


Thanks Engel. Hopefully in a few months we can get a little more information.

Till then i'm going to scare all my local BT players with completely made up rummors:).

boogle
30-05-2005, 19:49
the devastators thing isn't new anyway

Black Mage
30-05-2005, 22:16
Even more units that BT's will not get access to eh? Hmm, interesting. There's already Devs and Librarians, and Scout squads are somewhat redistributed in the list, but for all intents and purposes are not available. Whirlwinds might make a logical choice to axe.

I won't mind some minor tweaks here and there, but a list overhaul should be interesting. I do hate playing the same way over and over again, and enough changes to warrant a list overhaul should be good. Anything to prevent me to turn to the Eldar's dark kin.

I know I'm tempting fate, but I'll ask anyway, is the Drop Pod issue resolved in the new BT dex, one way or another?

hood_oz
30-05-2005, 23:49
I know I'm tempting fate, but I'll ask anyway, is the Drop Pod issue resolved in the new BT dex, one way or another?

Sorry mate, I dont think you will get an answer on that one for a fair while yet.

Badgobbla
31-05-2005, 13:30
*flips through his BT Codex*

Expect drastic balancing changes. All of the units are tweaked a little. You even lose access to a couple of units other than Devastators due to their character.

Your current army will work fine, but your lists will need major overhauls.

Again, that's all I'm revealing, don't bother asking for any questions, because you won't get any answers.

Do you have any idea on when exactly this codex will see the shelves?

Oh, and btw how many pages does it count?

Stormire
31-05-2005, 22:01
All I can say is that i'll die inside if I lose access to my three dreads. I can't imagine what other units they'd take out, maybe the whirlwind, i'd be fine with that and the predator. But then again, you're beginning to look at a very very lean list, with not many choices in terms of vehicles for anti-armor. I guess its just meltabombs for everybody!

EmperorsChamp01
01-06-2005, 21:27
Man I cant Wait till It comes out so i can Buy it and maybe win for a change. Ive Been playing the BT for over 2 years now and I have lost every game except 2 and I play just about everyweek.

Nurgling Chieftain
02-06-2005, 00:21
If you can't win with the BT's as is, you're probably going to fare even worse with the new codex. I expect some significant nerfing.

sigur
02-06-2005, 01:04
Man I cant Wait till It comes out so i can Buy it and maybe win for a change. Ive Been playing the BT for over 2 years now and I have lost every game except 2 and I play just about everyweek.

That sounds really strange to me.


@Nurgling Chieftain: I don't expect a real nerfing since GW never really nerfs anything (omg, it could be bad for the sales if people who play rules instead of an army get their forces nerfed!! :eek: ), but there will have to be something like a nerf because BT as they are now are one of the most broken lists (or better: special rules) out there.

Nurgling Chieftain
02-06-2005, 01:40
Rhinos weren't nerfed? Thousand Sons? C'mon. GW nerfs a lot of things, intentionally or otherwise. BT's need it, and I think (hope?) they know that. Actually, there are a number of rumours to the effect that vows will cost points and "fall-forward" will be d6", which would indeed be a nerfing.

schreier
02-06-2005, 20:29
Rhinos were nerfed. A lot of things have been nerfed over time. The assault cannon between 2nd and 3rd edition (which was unnerfed between 3rd and 4th), the plasma cannon between 3rd and 4th editions, Land Speeders w/ multi-melta/flamer (target 1 thing now).

GW makes things more and less attractive. It encourages sales but also prevents the game from stagnating.

That being said - I think the BT are strong. But I do not think they are hands down the best nor the most broken. Righteous Zeal - cool idea, but honestly, the only time it will ever come in hand is when the squad takes break tests from shooting - this is relatively rare for marines. Most tests are from h2h - where we are fearless. Not a big deal.

BT will change - but I do not think they are too powerful. Think about it - when is the last time BT won a GT? If they were the best, they should have won something in the years since the codex has come out.

They don't get devastators nor scout squads - neither of which is a big deal. But they can't get vet skills either - which is huge right now. furious charge on termis and vets is NASTY!!!

I think they will have to pay for their traits. I think the d6 makes sense for righteous zeal - and i've heard it is actually when the test is passed (as opposed to failed like the current version). There will most likely be sword brethren. I would love for assault squads to get combat shields (instead of the currently available storm shields).

That is mostly what I've heard except for sprues (plastic neophytes, crusader sprue)

schreier

Stormire
02-06-2005, 22:43
Do you think they're going to drop the point costs for things like assault squads then? I thought it rather odd that they'd keep the points for Templar assault squads at 25 points, especially since the fluff on the sidebar makes it sound like one of the most abundant templar units on the field should be assault squads...which now that I think about it, would make for a very interesting take on the army, if you did two assault squads and a squadron of three landspeeders, combined with a couple of drop pods, for things like dreads or bp&ccw...but i'm digressing.

I hope in the new codex the EC gets a little upgrading, don't get me wrong, for me he's taken out a tricked out chaplain, a wolf lord, a sick nasty librarian and a couple other tough to beat models in single combat, but I think he needs either an extra wound and maybe an extra attack, so he can hang with those big bad HQ units some people roll out. I'd also hate to see a change of the challenge special rule, because that's a real fun ability, makes the battle seem a bit more epic I think, anyone have any leads on this?

schreier
03-06-2005, 00:10
I would guess that the assault squad cost is at 25 still to take into account the vows ... my best guess is that the squad would drop down to 22 in the new list, but be able to take a 3 pt vow (just a guess)

I actually try to field a significant portion of my army as assault ...

My current 2k list is:

marshal w/ jump pack
leading 10 man assault w/ 2 powerfist

chap w/ jump pack
leading 10 man assault w/ 2 powerfist

emp champ
techmarine w/ servoharness
13 man squad (9 initiate/4 neophyte) w/ powerfist
all 15 in LRC

6 man tac squad (5 initiate/1 neophyte) w/ heavy & special weapon
in twin-las razorback

6 man tac squad (5 initiate/1 neophyte) w/ heavy & special weapon
in twin-las razorback

Vindicator

I really love the assault focus of the army :skull:

schreier

axels15
04-06-2005, 03:33
I like the list but I've never really found neophytes as worth the extra points? Whats your take on them?

EmperorsChamp01
04-06-2005, 06:19
yea I use them as bullet sponges. I just dont like the mixed armor rule. Like the Initiates have to be taken out first in CC. WTF wouldnt you think that the measly little Neophyte armor to giver way before the power armored Beheathmoths(excuse the spelling)

EmperorsChamp01
04-06-2005, 06:23
My 1500 pt army is:

Marshel Plasma Pistol Power fist

2 squads of 5 Ini with one power fist in each

1 7 Ini man squd with bolters noheavys
1 8 mIni Man sqd with Missile launcher
1 10 Ini 1 neo man sqd with power weapon and meltagun
1 10 Ini 5 Neo man squad with Power weap and melta gun

Venrable Dread with CC arm and Assult cannon

Vindi with Extra armor.

It is a mix between the CC and the Shooty aspects of the BT

Inquis. Jaeger
04-06-2005, 12:30
Neophytes are good as meat shields for long-range squads that are likely to be taking low-AP fire - no recourse to the mixed armour rule if you don't have to take a save!

LimeLord
15-06-2005, 02:55
Neophytes are also good if you are using a land raider crusader, i mean 55 points for 10-15 extra atks isn't bad...

Plus I also play BT and i always concentrate on assault because of vows, my army points are almost always filled up wiht assault troops and chaplians

Lozt_1
15-06-2005, 05:47
I know I'm tempting fate, but I'll ask anyway, is the Drop Pod issue resolved in the new BT dex, one way or another?
Sorry mate, I dont think you will get an answer on that one for a fair while yet.
pete haines has answered this on the GW forum faq...

charlie_c67
15-06-2005, 09:39
And for those of us that don't grace those pages the answer is?

rkunisch
15-06-2005, 10:30
And for those of us that don't grace those pages the answer is?


10. What non-standard marine units can use drop-pods? There is a huge debate among Black Templars players about their "Black Templars" squads' ability to use drop pods. By the letter of the rule, they would be unable to use drop pods since they are not listed in the space marine codex. At the same time, Templars dreadnoughts and command squads would be able to use drop pods. Grey Knights Dreadnoughts would not be able to field drop pods. Are all of these interpretations correct?

A: Grrr. A question that forces me to check through every Space Marine Codex! OK here we go: -

• Daemonhunters – specifically Grey Knights, do not use Drop Pods.
• Dark Angels – same unit types as Codex: Space Marines.
• Space Wolves – Wolf Guard retinues and squads, Grey Hunters, Blood Claws, Wolf Scouts, Long Fangs, Venerable Dreadnoughts and Dreadnoughts
• Blood Angels – same unit types as Codex: Space Marines plus Honour Guard and Furioso Dreadnoughts.
• Black Templars – as in Codex: Armageddon – Black Templars do not have the Drop Pod special rule (just as they lack ‘And they shall know no fear’) so cannot use them for any units.

- Pete

Have fun,

Rolf.

Black Mage
16-06-2005, 05:39
That does not answer the original question, which I was asking of Engel. In the NEW BT DEX, does it clarify the issue.

Brimstone
16-06-2005, 11:36
That does not answer the original question, which I was asking of Engel. In the NEW BT DEX, does it clarify the issue, not is the issue clarified on a forum of raving lunatics escaped from a mental institution and authored by a ***** incapable of finding his cornhole with two hands and a flashlight.

Black Mage comments like that about anybody are not appreciated on Warseer, this is a official warning make any comments like that again and you'll receive a strike and ban.

Karhedron
16-06-2005, 11:40
That does not answer the original question, which I was asking of Engel. In the NEW BT DEX, does it clarify the issue.
Engel has already said that he cannot give away that kind of info without violating his NDA. I think it best to stop hasseling him. We will find out in the next few months.

Black Mage
16-06-2005, 15:57
Yeah, fair enough, I had accepted that he wasn't going to reply to the original post, and I was willing to forget it and wait. Why this popped up again is beyond me, and I handled it rather badly.

Black DH templ.
17-06-2005, 13:03
Neophytes are good as meat shields for long-range squads that are likely to be taking low-AP fire - no recourse to the mixed armour rule if you don't have to take a save!

I'd rather pay the extra four points and get a marine that actually can shoot (long range).

Insane Psychopath
17-06-2005, 13:15
That the Scottish Conflict I got to talk to Greame McNeil. Tho he was not allowed to say much due to back then, codex BT was not due in the 6 month relase date.

All he did say was that the Emperor Champion changeing. Just people use him like there captain... no long, just stuff like the double handed or single handed rule will change.

Apart for that your lot guess is just as good as mine. Tho I will find out more since I'll be heading to the UK GT heat 1 & should find out some stuff. Also on that note the stuff will be on sale that Golden Daemon... so may mean that they sell it that the GT.

Ether way as soon as I get Info I let you lot know.

Mr Evil
17-06-2005, 13:39
I don't expect a real nerfing since GW never really nerfs anything (omg, it could be bad for the sales if people who play rules instead of an army get their forces nerfed!! :eek: ), but there will have to be something like a nerf because BT as they are now are one of the most broken lists (or better: special rules) out there.

GW never 'nerfs' anything? Take a look at 4th edition nids and then look at 3rd. They've gone down quite a few notches compared to what they used to be able to do.

Black Templars are Space Marines and one of the most popular armies out there due to their amazingly difficult colour scheme *cough*. GW will probably make them better as their not a non-SM race, their motto being that any non-SM army should lose to SM. For the units being taken out, I can see losing Predator Annihilators but not much else...

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 13:54
Hmmm, think you might be in the minority there. I've just been hearing good things for the new nids not much negative, save for new colour scheme and a few minis stance/look.

As for loosing out to Codex SM, you only do on some fronts. On others you gain quite a lot.

Insane Psychopath
17-06-2005, 13:57
I just been talking to mail order. Codex Templar is still WIP so any roumer that you hear are surely to be fake unless for staff that work that Warhammer World UK, Mail Order or one of them that made codex Templar, or Golden Daemon.

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 14:06
Just because something's a rumour doesn't mean it's fake.

Insane Psychopath
17-06-2005, 14:09
I was just sayign that because with the Templat codex still WIP how can anything be real.. if no one part for the maker know it.

Far due there will be some roumer that are true.

It just before codex Space Marine came out I got told a lot of stuff for the old version of here B&C & so many other please that turn out not to be in the new codex Mariens stuff that I was looking foward to :(

ANy way it will be out in the UK Gold Daemon.

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 14:13
Cos we have some sources that know what's going on. And depending on the release date the final drafts will be submitted if not now then fairly soon. Coupled to that there are somethings we know are coming. Like the plastic assault termis.

Insane Psychopath
17-06-2005, 15:30
charlie_c67 Cos we have some sources that know what's going on. And depending on the release date the final drafts will be submitted if not now then fairly soon. Coupled to that there are somethings we know are coming. Like the plastic assault termis.

Cool. Yeah I got fomr my contact detil on the new Assult Termies as well as the kind of lay out for codex Ork (basic been told everthing go the way of the Guard & Marine codex with the traites/Doc)

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 15:38
Makes sense as it allows flexibility without having to have 20 different dexes for each race. Guess that means Klans may make a comeback. Woohoo!!! :D

Insane Psychopath
17-06-2005, 15:50
I know this is about templar this topic but one thing

@charlie_c67. Yes all Clan are coming back as staff where talking to me & few other. It just like Marine where you can make a diy clan as well, you'll have stuff that limit you on one thing yet allow you to have ton of great stuff on the next. But this is they way they want the codexies & Armies book to go.

Venerable Dred
17-06-2005, 22:43
GW never 'nerfs' anything? Take a look at 4th edition nids and then look at 3rd. They've gone down quite a few notches compared to what they used to be able to do.

Black Templars are Space Marines and one of the most popular armies out there due to their amazingly difficult colour scheme *cough*. GW will probably make them better as their not a non-SM race, their motto being that any non-SM army should lose to SM. For the units being taken out, I can see losing Predator Annihilators but not much else...
With regard to the Nids going down quite a few notches, that is a matter of opinion, and is not shared by all Nid players. My Tyranid force has gotten much more competative and I have heard from at least one competative GT Nid player who has indicated that his list is even more dangerous with the new codex than it was previously.

As for the Black Templars, from what I have been told, currently they will not be losing any Predator varients. Also, based on what I heard, they do not appear to be better than 'Codex' marines, just different. I really liked the few bits I managed to hear from some of the possible unit names (definite Knightly-themed), to hinted at wargear options (one even has a distinct reference to a Monty Python knightly-movie ;) ), to the way their 'Fall Forward', Vows, and EC may be handled.

The little bit that I have been able to hear seems to point to a codex that is based off of the current marine codex, but has been given advantages and limitations appropriate for the Black Templars' background. I really like what I have heard. It makes me look forward to seeing how they will handle the remaining three special marine codexes.

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 23:58
The holy hand grenade?

Sildani
18-06-2005, 18:41
Hmmm.... hee hee. THAT would be interesting.

Give the Emperor's Champion a rule called "It's Just a Flesh Wound!"

And, who knows, a new Vow: "RUN AWAY!!" Worth negative points, you see, to be the opposite of the current "RUN FORWARD!!" Vow.

Brimstone
18-06-2005, 20:07
The holy hand grenade?

No the sword brethren squad the says NIC a lot. ;)

A new 40K/whfb tie in with the Wood Elves.

BT's are going to be interesting and a possibly controversial release.

Warlord Gnashgrod
19-06-2005, 08:23
What I would like to see is the vow for the BT's being randomly determined. I mean. why even have more than one vow when the one that is chosen 99% or more of the time is 'preferred enemy', which allows you to hit on 3+ in hth? Has anyone seen any BT player chose a different vow? Let's see some vow variety for a change!

KhornateLord
19-06-2005, 09:02
On two occasions i have seen diffferent vows taken:

Once in a battle report, the -1I +1 to wound was taken, just to be dfiferent.
Once in a tournament, in a mission where you have to get to your opponent's side, the run at psykers at the start of the game was used against eldar.

The problems i have with BT are:
The run forward 2D6 thing: Seriously, against guard and tau, this is nasty.
The neophytes are just cheaper guys who have weaker armour but are as good in combat.
The free vows. What other 40k race/army has something like this? None of them. 3+ to hit anything in your opposing army, just for the hell of it, with no drawbacks? Theres no point taking any other ability. Neophytes hit bloodthirsters on 3+? coz they are crusaders? If you are brutally honest with yourselves, BT players, wouldn't you suggest that perhaps given the BT involvement with orks, this should only apply to them? like say the IG ability?

Ill be interested in seeing where this new codex goes, but i'd suggest its even chances that it will see BTs even more powerful, or reduced back into line with normal marines.

IN response to the "Codex is WIP etc, can't be finalised" i'd suggest the rules are in final testing stages (yes, its amazing GW does test the rules at all, with some of the corkers they've had) and are pretty much decided on unless something big crops up.

MANDRAGORE
19-06-2005, 10:09
I think that Neos in BT units hit normally! Correct me I f I am wrong.

Insane Psychopath
19-06-2005, 10:15
Nope scout also hit on 3+ if take that vow. But would you not preffer the 6+ Inv save now & then.

Any way I can't wait as I can finial start my 3rd or 4th BT army :D

Slazton
19-06-2005, 13:27
I think the preffered enemy should work like the Imperial Guard doctrine, that should be set in stone IMHO. If you have a preferred enemy, then by the Emperor's Bones you should have it shown!

With the vows taking up points costs, then it will even the playing field. If I have to pay 3pts a model for inflitrate, then so do the Black Templars and their traits. The only thing Chaos get for free is if you chose a Legion, and usually that Legion's special ability comes with drawbacks.

Ah well, I cannot wait to see if the Black Templars get fixed, or become an unbearable force

MANDRAGORE
19-06-2005, 22:49
I still believe that Neos hit do not hit on 3+ but there is a different place to talk about it. I will take it to the rules' section.

Insane Psychopath
19-06-2005, 23:06
19-06-2005 22:49
MANDRAGORE I still believe that Neos hit do not hit on 3+ but there is a different place to talk about it. I will take it to the rules' section.

They do hit on a 3+ like everone else. It the other vow that give you a 6+ Inv save, they don't get it.

Son of Morkai
19-06-2005, 23:56
Currently, they don't. I'm looking at my codex and it specifically says that they do not benefit from "Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds." They only benefit from "Be Pure of Mind, Body And Soul."

LimeLord
20-06-2005, 04:23
Mmmmm black templars vows.... Yeah, we need a points cost or something, our assault marines are alot more expensive though, and i usually use almost entirely assault marine armies, so i think that balances it right? Yeah neophytes and dreadnoughts benefit from the 3+ to hit vow,

icharus
20-06-2005, 18:15
Black Templars – as in Codex: Armageddon – Black Templars do not have the Drop Pod special rule (just as they lack ‘And they shall know no fear’) so cannot use them for any units.

- Pete

This might sound silly but how are BT's supposed to make planet fall without being blasted out of the skies in their thunderhawk gunships. In Crusade for Armageddon by Jonathan Green the BT's landed in drop pods.

Just talked to some guy down at GW he said that they are finishing off the nid stuff first then wood elves then re-releasing LOTR then sometime after all that the BT codex so it might be this side of Xmas.

boogle
20-06-2005, 21:10
ALL Space Marines have ATSKNF, and they can use Drop Pods

Karhedron
20-06-2005, 22:19
ALL Space Marines have ATSKNF, and they can use Drop Pods
Nope, Pete Haines was very clear on the GE boards that Templars cannot use Drop Pods using the current list.

This may change in their new codex but currently they do not get either ATSKNF or Drop Pods.

charlie_c67
21-06-2005, 10:00
Which, as far as ATSKNF is concerned, is a little daft when u think about it.

Karhedron
21-06-2005, 11:18
Which, as far as ATSKNF is concerned, is a little daft when u think about it.
I don't think anyone ever claimed his reasoning was sound, ;) just that it was the official line.

philbrad2
21-06-2005, 12:53
With regard to the Nids going down quite a few notches, that is a matter of opinion, and is not shared by all Nid players.QUOTE]

Amen to that. IMHO the Nid codex is much simpler and more flexible than the old 3rd ed one. Finally swarm armies are a reality for Nids now all we need is seeding swarm rules...


[quote]Black Templars – as in Codex: Armageddon – Black Templars do not have the Drop Pod special rule (just as they lack ‘And they shall know no fear’) so cannot use them for any units.

- Pete

This might sound silly but how are BT's supposed to make planet fall without being blasted out of the skies in their thunderhawk gunships. In Crusade for Armageddon by Jonathan Green the BT's landed in drop pods.

Think those rules will change for BT's. Think a BT army without DP's will be like a broken pencil - pointless! As to ATSKNF, well if vows have to be paid for now I could see them getting this core SM rule.

:chrome:

Karhedron
21-06-2005, 13:10
Think those rules will change for BT's. Think a BT army without DP's will be like a broken pencil - pointless! As to ATSKNF, well if vows have to be paid for now I could see them getting this core SM rule.
I am inclined to agree. I suspect the reason that Haines made a harsh ruling about BTs was because he knew that the situation would be resolved fairly soon in the new codex. Until then it was cleaner to go by the letter of the law rather than try and errata something that would be changed fairly soon anyway.

They did make a point when 4th edition was released that they didn't want to issue fixes for specific issue (notably Tau drones) in the form of FAQs. They always wanted to address such issues in a more permenant way.

Inquis. Jaeger
21-06-2005, 14:19
They did make a point when 4th edition was released that they didn't want to issue fixes for specific issue (notably Tau drones) in the form of FAQs. They always wanted to address such issues in a more permenant way.

Is this why we haven't yet seen a Marine FAQ do you think?

Karhedron
21-06-2005, 15:11
Is this why we haven't yet seen a Marine FAQ do you think?
For every rule there is an exception and it is usually GW's golden boys. ;)

To be fair the Chapter specific FAQs didn't really change the way the mini-dexes worked (the rules and points costs remained the same). They just explained how to use the existing mini-dexes with the new SM codex.

Jal'knock
21-06-2005, 22:15
Which is the only real reasonable course of action for them. No point in trying to make every mini-dex into a new one for the new main dex and then re-release the mini-dexes.

Mr Evil
21-06-2005, 23:58
I don't play BT, but wouldn't it be characterful if they had an 'Assault Terminator Command Squad'? Seems like a possible and not far-fetched addition to BT to me...

zealousheretic
23-06-2005, 23:08
Assault-Termies are probably connected to the "Sword Bretheren" we've been hearing whispers about, likely a squad similar to what you're talking about, Mr Evil.