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EyEwitness
26-02-2006, 18:41
Got myself a mordheim boxset yesterday and have finally finished putting together all the terrain! Started to look at the skaven and Humans that come in the box, and its going to be a stretch to get either to add up to 500 points without equiping them with lots of stuff.

What I'd like to know from any long time mordheim players, is taking armour worth it? 20 points for light armour seems like a lot for a 6+ save, especially as there is a good chance the character may well be dead in 2 or 3 games!

Ghost Dog
26-02-2006, 18:50
They have added 5gc leather arnor to the equipment list somewhere. It gives you a 6+ save, even if you add a sheild. I'm not sure where this info comes from because I've just started playing myself. I just know that it's known among the veteran Mordheim players around here.

neXus6
26-02-2006, 18:55
I think it was included in the annual, but I preffer just running from the Core Rule Book things are just easier that way the annual had all sorts of rubbish in it, like really stupid high elf rules.

I don't think I'd bother with armour, at least for humans and skaven. Humans should have a fair bit of shooting with some combat guys in support so by using cover you shouldn't be taking to many hits, and Skaven have the speed to run from cover to cover so as not to get shot and also get charges so they are hitting first. I'd always rather have extra models than armour, considering unless someone has a skill that lets you pick targets you can use an extra model as a far far better shield. :D (yes I've got a skaven warband, yes most of them are expendable)

Odin
26-02-2006, 19:26
It is only really worth it once you have a full-strength warband and a bit of money to spare. Even then, it will only help you occasionally, but I think it's still worth having. I always buy it for the models who have armour.

There are some trial rules out on the Specialist Games forum to try to make armour more worthwhile. You may want to check it out.

Shadowheart
26-02-2006, 20:12
Under the current rules everybody's agreed it's a bad investment. It costs an arm and a leg (better to buy extra bodies instead), it gets ignored by high strength and armour modifiers half the time, and the other half of the time it gets ignored by critical hits (which cause the worst of the damage you'd like to protect yourself from).

But as Odin said, there's some playtest ideas here (http://www.specialist-games.com/forum/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=7) which attempt to make armour a valid choice. Even if they don't quite cut it, any improvement is welcome.

The miniatures in the box aren't really enough to make full 500 point warbands, but for now you could simply pick a lower points value to get some games in.

EyEwitness
27-02-2006, 09:43
Thanks, I think I'll leave armour for now.

I'd reached the same conclusion about there not being enough models in the box to make a 500GC warband, I was just trying to think how to equip them so I could use them to demo the game to friends, I'm thinking of going with a witch hunter warband myself!

Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
27-02-2006, 09:58
Armour is seriously NOT worth the choice in Mordheim. Apart from the fact you'll have to invest a serious amount of money in it, you've lost all the benefits once you face a model with a two-handed weapon or a flail. Out of experience I can say that you'll face such models quite a lot of times... (Bad experience here *rolls eyes*...).

Greetz

neXus6
27-02-2006, 10:29
I just bought a fantasy Night Runner box, everything you need to make 20 mordheim models. :D

All fear the M6 S4 Ws4 Black Skaven with a flail! I think he's going to be my favourite model in the coming campaign. As tempting as 2 of them are want a model with fighting claws. Don't want to give my Adept claws cause BS 4 would be wasted. Past that I think a sling and either a flail or 2 CCWs is the way to go. And no armour. :p

EyEwitness
27-02-2006, 11:03
Another begining Mordheim question!

Is it a good idea to max out the heros in a starting warband and then fill in the rest with henchmen? Or would it be better to start with 2 or 3 heros and add more later?:confused:

I'd be tempted to start with a full compliment heros with some henchmen making up the points, the benefits of heros and access to equipment from the begining seem to outweigh the potential losses if they die in the first game. Right now I'm thinking of going with Witch Hunters or Possessed, will probably be a coin toss to decide!

I think thats it with the questions now!:D

Skinnydookie
27-02-2006, 11:27
Maxing out on heroes is a good idea as they're the ones who can explore and get you wyrdstone and therefore gold. Heroes who go out of action can't do this, so the more you have the more chance of getting at least some heroes finding wyrdstone.

Finnblood
27-02-2006, 11:27
Well, I am staring Mordheim too, and I took full characters, which resulted approving grunts from the oldbeards, so I guess it's recommended.

On the other hand, henchmen are cheaper and might advance into powerful persons.

I think it depends on your stye, but take at least two and take a sorcerer if you can.

Odin
27-02-2006, 12:03
Agree, heroes are very necessary especially early on. A mate of mine runs a Possessed warband, and started with just a Magister and a Possessed. I killed the possessed in the first game and it took him ages to even begin to rebuild his warband, because he just wasn't finding enough wyrdstone.

spevna
27-02-2006, 13:25
Max out the heroes, don`t bother with armour and get as many bodies into the warband as possible so there`s less chance of taking a route test.

Skaven Lord Vinshqueek
27-02-2006, 13:32
In Mordheim, the point of survival is the post-game stuff, with especially the small moment where you go looking for wyrdstone. This (almost) only resource that generates an income, is generated by having your heroes searching for the stuff. Basically, the more heroes you got, the more wyrdstone you can find. As such, with all warbands you see everywhere on the web, the most given advice is usually "Maximize your heroes". Without this, you usually enter a world of hurt once your heroes go down.

@Eyewitness:
Witch Hunters is a very nice warband to start off with. Very powerfull and some of the most annoying models in all Mordheim *cough*... flail-wielding looneys that is *cough*... Only setback is your cap of 12 models.

Greetz

Bubble Ghost
27-02-2006, 13:50
I've always thought a cool way to represent armour, in a system like Mordheim with varying severities of injury, would be to have it reduce, or have a chance of reducing, the severity of the wound you suffer in post-game, rather than just porting over the block-or-not system from a large-scale wargame. "That blow winded me and knocked me out, but if I hadn't had this armour I'd be a dead man" kind of thing. Bit of a missed opportunity to take advantage of the scale of the game.

Quin 242
27-02-2006, 15:57
As to the first question.. the ony time I buy armor (other than shields) for a starting warband in Gromril armor for my dwarf noble cause the cost goes up so much later.
Otherwise i wait till I have a decent warband in size and skills then buy armor for the guys i want to keep around. Toughened Leathers is a pretty good buy for 5 gc tho... once you get going and can get to the trade center.


Another begining Mordheim question!

Is it a good idea to max out the heros in a starting warband and then fill in the rest with henchmen? Or would it be better to start with 2 or 3 heros and add more later?

And YES if you can max out your heroes then that is the best idea. It gives you more ooportunity to get wyrdstone and hence more gc's...
Plus the sooner you get them the more experience they will get :)
Henchmen can only get 4 upgrades max but heros (depending on which) can get up to 21 upgrades...

neXus6
27-02-2006, 19:10
My skaven are looking to be heading for 15 or so models starting. 1 Adept 2 Black Skaven 2 Night runners and 10 verminkin.
That will leave me with 120 gold to spend on weapons, not worked it out on paper yet but it should be okay.

EyEwitness
27-02-2006, 22:10
thanks for the advice!

In a complete change of plan, I'm going for a Dwarf Treasure hunter band (found the rules in an old white dwarf while looking for mordheim stuff!). It works out a bit cheaper to get all the bits I want, + some skaven bits to bulk out what comes in the box and get 2 warbands ready.

Quin 242
27-02-2006, 22:50
EyEwitness: Dwarf treasure hunters usually start out small but the free piece of stone after every game helps...

I went with maxed out heros and gave the slayers double dwarf axes and the noble a dwarf axe and gromril armor and the engineer a Crossbow .. that only left enough for one thunderer with a crossbow :(

BUT if you can stick it out 2-3 games you should do ok... Remember to use the Hard to kill rules. It will keep your folks around a lot longer :)

Add up to your max in thunderers with Crossbows and wait for them to show thier heads.

I'd recommend a cheap body (maybe halfling cook) to scout ahead to look for the other guy's hiders tho.. that measly 6" detection will get you lit up. With his I4 and M4 he can get near to enemy hiders and spot them for your crossbows :)

EyEwitness
27-02-2006, 22:58
Can you use dwarf axes in a starting band? I was under the impression you can only get rare stuff after a game? (if not, score!)