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meermiester
05-07-2010, 13:35
Right, ive spent a few weeks reading forums and writing this Lizardmen list or an upcoming 8e 3k tournament. The main base of the army is the gargantuan 40 strong Saurus block, i know everyone is saying Saurus will no longer work in large blocks, but i just want to see the look of fear in my opponent when i place the foot wide movement tray on the table :-D. Any comments/criticisms would be very appreciated!


Lords
Slaan Mage Priest (General)- Lore of Life, The Focussed Rumination, Battle Standard Bearer, Divine Plaque of Protection, Cupped Hands of the Old Ones

Heroes
Skink Priest- Level 2, Plaque of Tepok, Ancient Stegadon (with Engine of the Gods)
Skink Chief- Light Armour, Enchanted Shield, Blowpipe, Venom of the Firefly Frog, Terradon
Saurus Scar-Veteran- Light Armour, Shield, Burning Blade of Chotec, Cold One

Core
Saurus Warriors (40) - Spear, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
Saurus Warriors (20) - Spear, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
Saurus Warriors (20) - Spear, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
Skink Skirmishers (10)
Skink Skirmishers (10)

Special
Temple Guard (20) - Guardian, Musician, Standard Bearer
Terradon Riders (4)

Rare
Salamander Pack (2)
Salamander Pack (2)


The plan is to flank the horde with the two 20 strong (5x4) units of saurus to protect them from side charges and to react to any threats that the horde cannot manoeuvre away from (as i assume a 10 wide formation of 25mm based models will turn like crap, if at all).

The slann will be placed inside the temple guard (6x4) behind the saurus horde, this not only give the saurus blocks a BSB bonus, but with the slann knowing lore of life, hopefully replenishing any casualties.

The scar-vet on cold one will be placed within the saurus horde, giving them Fear (and stupidity, but with the slann nearby and cold-blooded that shouldnt mater too much...).

The skink priest will simply stay behind everyone to cast eotg 5+ ward saves and do a bit of damage.

The skink chief will be placed in the unit of terradons and go warmachine/monster hunting with poisoned weapons (as it sounds as if stone throwers and cannons will be more prevalent).

And of course, Salamanders are simply too awesome not to include.

Vsurma
05-07-2010, 13:51
tepok is nice but you are going to be doing most of the casting with the slann anyway so an extra spell imo is not worth taking over the dispel scroll.

Imagine your temple guard being hit by the 7th spell from life, strength test or death. Your slann will die 50% of the time, coming up against a lore of death mage, again slann is in danger, purple sun or pit of shades etc.

Take a scroll, it's worth it, alternatively take another mage just to carry the scroll, but I would just replace the tepok plaque for it.

The cold one scar vet seems a bad idea in this edition, since it won't get a look out sir roll against cannons etc. Granted not all armies have such weapons that can target the scar vet, against those that do well... seeing as they normally ignore any armour save, it might not live long. If you take a look at other peoples lists you will notice mounted heroes are out this edition.

Cham skinks are fairly amazing right now. Start anywhere 12" from the enemy, march and shoot. You can march block from turn 1, shoot from turn 1, and war machines go down to them fast. They are great. Though a larger squad than the min 5 might be a good idea seeing how grapeshot on cannons now works, you want it to go down the turn you fire.

Saurus as flankers, not sure about that, they are slow after all, 8" move when marching.

Considered skink krox? They don't fare too well to the front or rear but are great on flanks.

Why plaque of protection if the slann is in the temple guard unit? seems overkill, you have the lore of life to heal, and it gets a 2+ los within the temple guard, adding a 2+ ward vs shooting seems pointless. 2+ look our sir and 4+ ward already mean only 1/12 goes through.

meermiester
05-07-2010, 14:17
tepok is nice but you are going to be doing most of the casting with the slann anyway so an extra spell imo is not worth taking over the dispel scroll.

Done :-)


The cold one scar vet seems a bad idea in this edition, since it won't get a look out sir roll against cannons etc. Granted not all armies have such weapons that can target the scar vet, against those that do well... seeing as they normally ignore any armour save, it might not live long. If you take a look at other peoples lists you will notice mounted heroes are out this edition.

Hmm ok, you make a good argument, I was wondering about the new los! rules. So just take him on foot then? Maybe give him a ward save?


Why plaque of protection if the slann is in the temple guard unit? seems overkill, you have the lore of life to heal, and it gets a 2+ los within the temple guard, adding a 2+ ward vs shooting seems pointless. 2+ look our sir and 4+ ward already mean only 1/12 goes through.

I suppose i thought it would protect him against cannons and what not. With him being sat behind other units as well as within the temple guard, it probably is a bit overkill.


Cham skinks are fairly amazing right now. Start anywhere 12" from the enemy, march and shoot. You can march block from turn 1, shoot from turn 1, and war machines go down to them fast. They are great. Though a larger squad than the min 5 might be a good idea seeing how grapeshot on cannons now works, you want it to go down the turn you fire.

Maybe take two units of these instead of the skink chief and terradons (as these would be used in the same manner)? I dont like the chameleon skink models, but can always paint some normal skinks up with camo.


Saurus as flankers, not sure about that, they are slow after all, 8" move when marching.

Considered skink krox? They don't fare too well to the front or rear but are great on flanks.

Hmm ive heard everywhere else that the skink/krox unit is really nerfed in the new edition. Maybe 2 units of 3 krox (on their own) to flank the saurus horde? Monstrous units are supposed be the bees knees.

Would it be better to have 2 units of 30 saurus (6x5) instead of one horde and 2 units of 20? Thinking about the logistics of moving more than anything. Plus a 30 strong saurus unit backed up by 3 krox is a powerful combination.

gork or maybe mork
05-07-2010, 19:02
1 unit of 6 krox is better then 2 units of 3, as the second rank will break your opponents ranks while keeping your attacks the same (monstrous infantry contribute up to 3 attacks from the 2nd rank).

Vsurma
05-07-2010, 19:43
Iirc cannons won't hit your character, they hit normal units always, full stop, no going around it. You can no longer target the character by shooting a rank in front of him. I think the book was very clear on this (but check for yourself) just what I remember reading or hearing.

I think the terradon riding skink brave is mostly taken for cool factor. At his cost he is expensive, won't get a look out sir unless you take a huge unit of terradons. Cham skinks beat most crews in CC now that they fight in 2 ranks! huge vs war machines, double attacks. Also if the enemy is say dwarf you just shoot them (well you can shoot anyone) war machines have to really fear the skinks.

I use normal skink models myself, painted in different colors.

Well the krox will kill more...sort of... They have ws3 so they don't kill much, also they don't negate ranks.

The skrox unit will bring a rank or 2 + flag on top of what it kills. It comes with 6 less S6 attacks compared to a unit of 3 krox (fairly similar price), the difference in cr is marginal until you factor in that skinks can break ranks, giving you a +3 bonus.

6 krox loses the ability to break ranks after the first casualty. 6 krox is 330pts, its not a flanking force, its a hammer.

skrox actually gained this edition WHEN they attack the flank, they lose out when attacking the front or rear, also they have to take more than the old 11+krox, I bumped my units to 16 and I still lost the ability to break ranks at times.

If you deploy them on the flank I feel they do ok. I have really liked the unit but others have not, I don't think 3 krox is better though, not against infantry, better against knights and things etc. Your call.

40 saurus does seem a tad much. The idea behind such a unit is of course that going horde 30 can attack, you also want to make sure you actually have 30 when you strike so you need a few extra. The saurus attack before GWs and have a 4+ save and T4 which saves most other attacks so you don't really need 40 but its not really overkill either, they can be shot, magicked etc.

I sort of like the unit, it basically rules against anything without GWs, apart from marauders and maybe dwarves, you won't really fear any unit. 1+ save knights still ruin your day. Give it a run and let us know. It still costs 2.5 times the cost of taking 18 strong units with HW/S so I dunno which is better.

I haven't tried spears yet, let alone horde spears so I can't say. I'd give the 40 strong unit a go.

meermiester
06-07-2010, 10:30
Thanks for your advice guys, i think i'll wait till the book come out this weekend before i write another list (as some of the magic items look too good to be true: enchanted shield for 5pts, unit armour piercing standard for 45pts, init 10 sword for 15pts...).

Will definitely swap the terradons and chief for two units of (10/15?) chameleon skinks, and rethink the load-out of my characters. Still not sure what to do about the blocks of saurus though... Tempted to have just 2 blocks of 30 (6x5) saurus. What do people think would compliment these two blocks?

meermiester
09-07-2010, 08:39
Right, had a look in the big red book and heres my new list. Changed it quite a bit according to the rules ive read in the new book:


Lords
Lord Kame-hameha, Slaan Mage Priest (General)- Lore of Life, The Focussed Rumination, Focus of Mystery, Higher State of Consciousness, Battle Standard Bearer, Obsidian Pendant (increases ward save to 3+ against magic), Cupped Hands of the Old Ones

Heroes
Skink Priest- Level 2, Ancient Stegadon (with Engine of the Gods)
Skink Chief- Ancient Stegadon, Javelin, Shield

Core
Saurus Warriors (30) - Spears, Full Command
Saurus Warriors (30) - Spears, Full Command
Skinks (22) - Kroxigor x2, Full Command
Skinks (22) - Kroxigor x2, Full Command

Special
Chameleon Skinks (10)
Chameleon Skinks (10)

Rare
Salamander Pack (2) -
Salamander Pack (2) -

Total = 2994, enough spare for one of the random 5 point common magic items.

thesheriff
09-07-2010, 08:50
There is no point in giving the saurus spears. the lose out on the parry bonus, and if they are 10 wide (which i hope they are), they will fight in 3 ranks anyway.
use the points to buy some extra kroxigor, one for each unit of skinks

but, not bad

thesheriff

LuitpoldFrohlich
09-07-2010, 08:55
Dropping spears will get him 60 more points to work with. One Krox costs 55; only one unit can be increased, and he'll need two more skinks to maintain an 8:1 ratio.

meermiester
09-07-2010, 09:07
Nope, they'll be 6x5 as ranks play a HUGE part in combat, the spears allow them to fight in 3 ranks still and as their 5 deep they probably wont lose enough bodies to lose any attacks (while still being stubborn as they'll hopefully have more ranks than their enemy, and stubborn cold-blooded is sick and wrong...). I personally dont think a horde unit of 25mm bases will work now, as they are way too wide so you'll only be fighting with half of them against a single enemy unit anyway and lose out on ranks!

I'll then use the 6x5 unit of skinks (with 2 krox) to protect each of the saurus blocks flanks (thanks to their movement 6), they'll try and stay slightly behind the saurus until combat kicks of, then they can charge into the side of enemy units, or intercept anything that gets too near the Slann, which is why ive given them 5 ranks too so they can remove enemy rank bonuses.

Not sure if i need the skink chief, but had the points spare so thought he's simply look cool. Needed so more poison attacks which is why i added the ancient steg.

The slann will most definitely not get into combat if i can help it, so with Ethereal the only thing that can hurt him will be magic ranged, and spells (that i have a 3+ ward save against). Thought he would be better suited as a lone slann then in a block of TG.