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Vsurma
05-07-2010, 18:24
Practice game for an upcoming tournament.

My opponent said he didn't want to play vs 2 slanns so I went with a pumped up one.


Lizardmen list:
Slann, full lore, extra dice per cast, ethereal, cupped hands, magic carpet, 2+ ward vs flamming attacks, banner of dicipline... 515pts! Lore of death

Skink priest lv2, scroll (push enemy d3+1 spell and reroll 6s to hit, wound and save spell)

Core:
18 Saurus warriors, full command
18 Saurus warriors, full command
18 Saurus warriors, full command
11 skinks with brave
10 skinks with brave
10 skinks with brave
16 skinks, 1 krox, full com
16 skinks, 1 krox, full com

Special:
5 cham skinks
3 terradons
6 kroxigor

Rare:
1 Salamander
1 Salamander

Only 2 heroes, both mages, very infantry and core heavy.

Beastmen list:
Beastlord, +3 strength sword, no ward

Minotaur hero bsb, magical heavy armour + 4+ ward, Bone standard, 6+ ward for unit item/talismen.

Lv2 wizard with scroll, lore of beasts, 1+ Str and Toughness spell, +3 Toughness to character/s spell.

Core:
35 ish Basic Gor? unit (S3 1 attack per model guys) 6 wide
35 ish Basic Gor
Tuskor chariot
Tuskor chariot

Special:
25 Bestigor herd, GW
4 Minotaurs /w extra hand weapon
3 Minotaurs GW

Rare:
Gorgon

Deployment Lizards (left to right)
Skrox, skink, skink, saurus, salamander, skink, sally, Slann, saurus, saurus, skrox


Deployment beasts (my left to right)
Gorgon, 4 minos, gor unit, bestigor, gor, GW minos

His BSB and beastlord both go into the bestigor unit making a 850pts deathstar, the bestigors also had a 6+ ward for unit item/talisman for a 5+ in total.

I had way more units than he had which was good for me. Chamo skinks deploy 12" from the gorgon.

I won the roll for first turn, we rolled 6,2 so his +1 didn't help there.

Lizards turn 1.
I reveal my slann has the magic carpet, fly up within 12" of his general and bsb (bad idea)

The chamo skinks move up to fire on the gorgon doing 1 wound with poison and 1 wound normally.

Skrox on both sides move up 6" or so, both salamanders move 12" to fire (another mistake)

Everything else stays back.

Slann gets 3 dice, I cast 3! spells, first death spell, (roll d6 + add ld, opponent takes difference in wounds with no save) on his bsb, turns out it has a 2+ save vs my magic due to his 4+ and the banner/item combo on the bestigor unit. I do no damage. I try another character sniping spell on the beastlord which he scrolls! (scroll down on turn 1 with 3PD!) and cast doom and darkness on the unit!

Salamanders fire on the unit, first one misfires and eats a skink, the other hits 5 models, kills 1 and forces a panic check on ld6 (failing and a flee of 6" or more means he loses his 850pt deathstar).....he passes with a roll of 6! (well at least we get to keep playing)

Beasts turn 1
He declares charges.
4 minos on my salamanders which flee, minos move up 4-5",
Tuskgor chariot on my slann which flees, 2nd chariot on my salamander which flees.

His gorgon moves up the max 12" after passing his ld test to march (cham skinks nearby) he moves up a full 12" in front of 2 units of skinks, we both know they will be shot by 27 skinks next turn, he didn't want to charge since he knew my skinks would flee.

Everything else moves up maximum distance except the units slowed by failed charges (is this the ONLY way to slow enemies down these days!?)

3 GW minos on the right turn to meet my skrox trying to flank them

He tries to buff his bestogor unit with +1 S and T but rolls 1,1 and ends the phase. (he was saving another 5 dice or so for the +3T spell)

Lizardmen turn 2
I rally my 2 salamander units and my slann (salamander is very much in the way of my krox preventing their movement)

Bith of a annoyance neither of my sallies can shoot.

My skrox on the right charge the GW minos who hold. I kill 1 mino! 1 wound from the 8 skink hits and 2 from the krox. They do 2 wounds to the krox and kill 3 skinks, 3 more with stomp! I lose by 1 but hold due to 1 rank, banner, charge.

My terradons charge a chariot to get out of the way so one of the saurus units can charge. They lose combat by 1 as the opponent saves 2 wounds dealt, I hold.

I attempt 2 more charges, with saurus units into his gors but fail both.

My skinks go to town on the gorgon with a unit of 11 dealing 4 wounds and killing it. Another unit on the left does a wound to the 4 mino group.

My slann is annoyingly close to the enemy (definite charge range for enemy)
I try to snipe the characters again with the 3 spells but fail to do so, cast -1 S and T spell on the bestigor unit.

My skinks near the slann move up to make room for Saurus (middle ones) to move up (to protect the slann and the other saurus unit from a flank attack.
Skin priest that started in the unit jumps out and moves back 12" (heavens spells mostly have 24" range and he had no shooting apart...)

Skink krox on the left move up to flank the minos should they charge anything.

Beasts turn 2
He declares charges, 4 minos on the decide no charge is worth taking a flank from skrox so merely move up towards the left most saurus. (he had a cunning plan....so he though)

The left gors charge my unit of Saurus, the bestigors charge the middle saurus, right gors charge my slann which flees, they redirect to the saurus (failed charges the prior turn led to such a situation where he got a lot of charges off)


Lots of combats, his magic does little.... lv2 vs a slann... I never even needed my scroll.

Battles from left to right.

Gors vs saurus, his gors roll well with 3s to hit with re-roll for primal fury hit with pretty much everything, still only 2 saurus go down after my T4 4+ save and parry (S3 just doesn't cut it) I kill a few few more but he has 2 ranks and charge over me so wins by 1, I hold.

Next the 850pts bestigor deathstar vs my saurus... My saurus manage to kill about 2-3 bestigors, bad rolls but not anything special, his beastlord kills my champ in a challenge, his bestigors without primal fury due to bsb bull being in the unit (think he gave them frenzy!) kill something like 10 saurus, bull kills a few more leaving 5-6 of the 18 strong unit, I run, he chases and catches me. (he should have tried to reform to flank my saurus in combat with his gors (as above) but he still had doom and darkness on him, he tried to dispel it but failed in his phase.

They catch my saurus.

On the right the other gors fight another saurus unit, I kill 7 he rolls amazingly well and kills 5, he has 2 ranks and the charge on me so wins by 1. I roll a 6 or 7 for ld and fail! my slann is running away so I can't use his ld OR the reroll! I mixed up the dice so I couldn't be sure had I rolled 6 or 7 when I realised they actually have ld8 not 7 as I first though. No biggie. Unit is caught and destroyed. The gors overrun into the 6 krox behind. (they where there because my fleeing sallies had blocked all chances to attack from elsewhere)

Wow that is a lot to happen in 2 turns!

Lizardmen turn 3/4
Slann rallies.

We actually think its turn 4 because of all that had happened and the fact that his army was pretty much in my deployment zone by now!

My skrox on the left charge the flank of his minos, his cunning plan is to flee, fleeing through his gor unit in combat with my saurus (left most combat) however he didn't factor in that my skinks 2" away would also charge them.

I let him change his reaction to a hold with the skrox since he didn't know how the new rules worked, neither has a great grasp on them yet so there was a lot of looking up rules during the game.

So I now have their flank, AND I can overrun if they die into the gor unit fighting the saurus! hoorayz... I think

My skrox do amazingly well, the skinks! kill 1 minotaur (6+ save doesn't do much) and the krox kills 1 also! His final mino kills 4 skinks but he still loses and runs, I overrun into the gors!

The gors go to town on the skinks, they have aditional HWs AND frenzy so 3 attacks each, they kill something like 8 skinks! so much for negating their ranks! my saurus, skinks and krox kill 9? gors! He beats me with a rank, so we tie and stay in combat. I do kill his mage though (slann vs no defence for the rest of the game!)

On the right his gors kill a krox, I kill 5 gors, we tie, think we wins with musician but I hold.

Far right his 2 remaining minos take 2 wounds from the skink krox(1 wound left) I lose a LOT of skinks and the krox, he gets an extra attack from each won combat so his 2 minos had 8 attacks and 2 stomp attacks, 10 hits killed about 6 models, I lose and run. Krox puts 2 wounds onto the unit before I lose it.

Beasts turn 3/4
He is running out of units.

His 2 chariots charge my slann! oh noes.... well actually being ethereal he doesn't take any damage, I lose combat by 1 due to him getting the flank and charge against my bsb, I hold on my ld 9-10, depending on how the dicipline banner works, I roll a 1,2,2 so it doesn't matter.

His bestigors fail their ld test for free reform so make a normal on instead, they turn to the right towards my slann.

The krox and gors on the right continue the fight, gors kill another krox and the krox beat the gors down for 6 models, they still have flag and rank over me so lose by 1, they pass with generals ld. Doom and darkness is gone by this point.

The saurus on the left continue to fight the gors with the krox and 3 skinks on their flank.

He kills 3 skinks and 2 saurus, I kill 9 or so gors, they fail their test, saurus pass their ld test to reform to look at the rear of the bestigors. the krox chases the unit, (this turn and next when he catches them)

Far right, his minos move up for a flank charge on my krox the next turn. (this is before the combat of course)


Lizardmen turn 5:

On the right the remaining 4 krox finnish off the gors by winning combat by a large margin due to the gors failing their fear check and falling to ws1. Krox like! I lose a krox again!

He is now down to his deathstar unit, still mostly unharmed, 2 chariots fighting an ethereal slann and 2 minos with 5! GW attack each and stomp.

Magic! this is where its at, a Slann with rumination (free dice per cast) against an enemy with no magic defence, I roll 11! dice (with rumination I end up using about 15 this phase!)

I cast EVERYTHING, I try to snipe the bsb because i cannot see his lord, he has a 2+ ward so doing so is kind of pointless, I switch round and snipe out the unwounded mino leaving 1 with 1 wound! (wait and see what he can do!)

I then cast purple sun of XERXES! it hits his Bull bsb who gets no lookout sir (he is monsterous infantry in a unit of normal infantry) it fails its init3-4 test and dies, I then kill another 5-7 bestigors, good times, the vortex moved only 6" from my slann so I didn't hit too many (but I also avoided hitting many of my own units behind his unit, though I did hit 4 of my skinks of which ALL of them died)

We could not find anything that said I could not cast in a way that would kill my own units, just that it cannot be cast into combat.

I forgot for the whole game death lore can give extra power dice, its possible I could have got more than the 15 or so I used because I did cause 7 wounds that turn.

I also cast doom and darkness on the bestigor unit and the -1 S&T spell.

With so many dice even my skink priest gets to cast! he casts the movement spell on the bestigors and moves them 4" towards my table edge. I then move skinks into their way (well before actually) so they cannot charge my slann as the skinks are in the way.

The movement spell meant if they killed my skinks he would not overrun into my slann....wow the spell was actually useful! I also had my skinks in a line so if he charged only 2 models will be in base contact with his unit. (so 4 attacks and a great chance of them holding under my ld10 general bsb, sneaky I know)

He takes some blowpipes and salamander flaming but sticks around. Unit is still very large. Now that I think about it the unit was over 5 ranks to begin with so I might have understated its size, he did say it cost 350pts so I guess it was close to 30 strong.

Beastmen turn 5
His beastlord charges into my slann... sneaky, I stopped the unit from charging but not the character, his 4 S8 attacks do 2 wounds of which I save 1, I lose by 3 but hold even without a re-roll.

The minotaur on the right charges the flank of my krox. His 1 lone minotaur and his 5 GW attacks kill 2 krox! he also did impact hits! rolled perfectly! my krox kills his mino (dealt 1 wound) so his unit is dead! I would have lose the unit had he had more than 1 wound! WOW!

The purple sun moves exactly the right direction and hits another 8 bestigor.... nice, half die.


Lizardmen turn 6

My slann goes to town again with magic, 5 PD for me 4 DD for him, then I channel 1 more (first channel all game for either of us) I snipe his beastlord easily, I also manage to cast -1S and -1T on his unit, this he dispelled.

I shoot poison on the bestigors with 27 skinks, I also try 2 salamander flamings but I misfire the first and overshoot the 2nd, instead frying 4 of my own skinks. Still he is down to very few models.

They take a panic test from 7 dead poisoned bestigors, run off the table with a roll of 12! (only needed 1 though)

With 2 chariots left he concedes the game.

I still had my slann with all but 1 wound, my priest with 1 wound (I miscast earlier, all mages took a S6 hit, I decided to save my cupped hands and took the hits) I had 1 krox left, 1 saurus block above half. 2 salamanders, chamo skinks, 3 units of skinks.

Overall I lost 2 saurus units, 1 skrox unit, half my krox, the terradons.

The game looked really good for the beasts on turn 3 when they managed a lot of good charges but once he lost his mage he had no magic defence.

Trying to kill that doombull (or whever its called) bsb with magic was a pain since it had a 2+ ward but purple sun got it. Without the bsb or general the beasts ld was not so hot.

Fairly considerable victory for me.


Post game thoughts.

I played the slann horribly. Moved up aggressively turn 1, was forced to flee a few times meaning I had no control of his position ALL game.

Death is a nice lore but mostly 12" range so even infantry can charge you! the magic rug should counter all these problems so they are a good match but I failed to use it well.

The salamanders moving up on turn 1 was a bad idea also as it blocked my krox charge on turn 3 and my saurus on turn 2.

I should have also blowpiped the minos on the right, now they got a unit of skrox (when I charged) and 2 krox. I though I would win that first fight with 3 ranks and flag but after hits I actually had only 1 rank and flag and he rolled amazingly well. He needed 4 kills over what I got and managed to do so.

As far as magic goes, the slann is still amazing against most opponents, he is hard to kill with the limited amount of magic weapons actually found in most lists. A lv2 really struggles to dispel ANYTHING.

My opponent got to choose which 1! spell he would dispel each turn while I was casting 4-7 spells a turn, had I wanted to I could also roll lots of dice for that 1 spell and then he cannot even dispel that, but I always chose to cast 3 spells rather than powering 1 through.

Even the turn I rolled 3 dice was good! with 3 spells cast successfully and 1 scrolled.

I never failed to cast even once with the slann! all game long! Death has low casting values like a lot of others, heck even purple sun is cast on 3 dice with a slann! (smaller version)

Advice:
Always have a lv4 with a lv2 backup. I cannot think of a better way to go. I follow this myself even though I have yet to lose my slann.

Hope you enjoyed it, let me know if you have ideas on improvements other than to take pics (which I will try to do at the tournament I have next sunday!)

willowdark
05-07-2010, 18:44
Its funny - 8th ed magic was supposed to be the end of "go big or go home." Hasn't really been evident except in smaller games.

Good report. Things did look good for the Beasts, which I was excited about, but magic just owned this game.

Vsurma
05-07-2010, 18:46
Well, you don't need to take 4 mages now, just 1 good one really. Though most armies don't have access to one so now the race you play makes a huge difference, only lizardment, DE and vamps can have HUGE magic phases.

Malorian
05-07-2010, 18:47
I play lizardmen, and even I think the extra dice of the slann should count towards the 12 dice max.

I'm really not liking how crazy powerful they can be.

willowdark
05-07-2010, 18:48
And Tzeentch Daemons and High Elves as well.

Malorian
05-07-2010, 18:53
And Tzeentch Daemons and High Elves as well.

Whatever the source... you can only use 12 PD a turn.

Or that's how it should be...

Vsurma
05-07-2010, 18:54
Fair enough, so now we have armies split in 2, the ones that can have huge magic phases and others that cannot. Good? I dunno, happy to be on the better side.

I don't think I would mind a total cap of 12, it rarely makes a difference imo. I mean the turn I used 15 dice, just 1 turn, I was casting things like fear onto saurus etc, that didn't have a huge impact.

Is the report clear? I am always looking to improve somehow, I am just horribly lazy to take pictures (or find my camera) but I will try to improve on that. The beasts where very nicely painted too.

Edit:
Playing such a heavy infantry list was fun! I think I will try to add another krox to the skrox, They do lose their rank breaking ability rather fast, though I did charge 3 attack enemies which is a rarity.

Malorian
05-07-2010, 19:09
Report was good and clear :)

willowdark
05-07-2010, 19:12
Very well organized. I don't care for long paragraghs on a message board. Even if I have a lot to say I try to break it up into short coherent points.

That's pretty much how you've got your organized, which makes it really easy to read. I would've loved to see some pictures though.

(see what I did there? ;))

SevenSins
05-07-2010, 21:42
good stuff, and I agree with Willowdark on all points

(I also thought the 12 dice cap was even with bonuses.... )

Vineas
06-07-2010, 01:48
Guess we'll know more about how magic effects certain armies on the 10th when GW erratas/FAQ's all the army books.

LevDaddy
06-07-2010, 18:10
Great report.

I like your reporting style - detailed, straight to the point, short sentences, and you throw in all the new rules and maneuvers as well so, for me anyway, it's a good learning tool for the new edition. Keep them coming!

Avian
06-07-2010, 20:43
Minotaur hero bsb, magical heavy armour + 4+ ward, Bone standard, 6+ ward for unit item/talismen.
Is this even legal?

Malorian
06-07-2010, 21:14
Is this even legal?

Magical banner and magical gear?

Nope!

Vsurma
06-07-2010, 22:31
I might have written it wrong, the bsb had the magical armour for a 4++ and the bestigor champ had some item for a 6+ ward for the unit and some then there was the magical banner...

So might be me who made the mistake....or him, not sure. Is it possible to get a 5+ ward for the unit?

LaurentleBete
13-07-2010, 21:38
Bestigors can take a magic banner, that might be what the setup was.

SabaLoth
14-07-2010, 12:23
Don't the slann dice count toward the maximum according to the FAQ? well, it's only a problem if you have 12 power dice

Zso Sahaal
17-07-2010, 08:55
again great report was easy to follow what was going on.

as others have said though i thought the 12 dice cap was including any bonuses in the magic phase :s

Vsurma
17-07-2010, 13:10
12 dice at any one time, it says so clearly in the book, this is further clarified in the lizardmen faq.

If I roll 12 dice, I cannot add rumination dice to this as then I would essentially have 13 that phase. I can however use 1, now 11 left, then I can use another and get a free rumination dice. Thus having 12.

So lizardmen, DE, some others can use well over 12 dice per phase, as long as they don't go over at any point.

Lordy
18-07-2010, 16:49
What about the HE standard of sorcery, what would stop me using 3 power dice, and then use the Standard of sorcery, the banner doesn't say at which point in the magic phase i need to roll for it.

I'm still playing with only using 12 power dice a turn max, regardless of bonuses untill the FAQ comes out.

Vsurma
18-07-2010, 18:51
That has been discussed at length in the "magic trickory" thread in the general discussion section. Opinions differ, last edition it happened at the start of the phase even if not specified, now however?

Some say everything that doesn't say otherwise happens at the start, others say you choose. Decide for yourself.

UDirtyRat
19-07-2010, 00:15
nice report, real well done. Thank you !

Zaszz
20-07-2010, 14:22
It seems to me most armies could do a decent magic defense, only Dwarf armies are unable to field a level 4 right? And with said Dwarf army you have many many options to supliment your magic defense.

If you really don't want to field a level 4 (which brings nice magic and defense), a level 2 with a dispel related item and a scroll is probably a great choice. Say like a staff of sneaky stealing lvl 2 gobbo with a scroll.

Currently against even the most potent magic phases such a gobbo would probably be able to help mitigate it very well, where as previous edition he would have struggled to do anything against a lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2's.

It is certainly less go big or go home then it was, your opponent will still have a powerful phase but you don't need to bring as much to mitigate it, either bring your own level 4, or bring a level 2 with dispel assistance items.

Just my 2 cents.

Dungeon_Lawyer
20-07-2010, 22:41
I thought flying carpet on slann was a no no...

Vsurma
21-07-2010, 11:36
I don't believe there is any rule that makes it illegal, his guardians rule states he has a palaquin but it seems more a fluff thing, his profile doesn't state anything to make us assume he is treated as anything other than infantry, it doesn't have a mount as such. Not 100% though.

sliganian
22-07-2010, 19:47
It seems to me most armies could do a decent magic defense, only Dwarf armies are unable to field a level 4 right? And with said Dwarf army you have many many options to supliment your magic defense.

If you really don't want to field a level 4 (which brings nice magic and defense), a level 2 with a dispel related item and a scroll is probably a great choice. Say like a staff of sneaky stealing lvl 2 gobbo with a scroll.

Currently against even the most potent magic phases such a gobbo would probably be able to help mitigate it very well, where as previous edition he would have struggled to do anything against a lvl 4 and 2 lvl 2's.

It is certainly less go big or go home then it was, your opponent will still have a powerful phase but you don't need to bring as much to mitigate it, either bring your own level 4, or bring a level 2 with dispel assistance items.

Just my 2 cents.


For HE, I am thinking that the Annulian Crystal is going to be a default item (steal one PD and add it to your DD pool).

Heimagoblin
23-07-2010, 22:04
I play lizardmen, and even I think the extra dice of the slann should count towards the 12 dice max.

I'm really not liking how crazy powerful they can be.

This from the guy that uses 9 goblin big bosses in 1 unit?:rolleyes:

edit: Wait, was that you or were you reporting about someone else doing it?, I can't remember.

Malorian
24-07-2010, 04:59
This from the guy that uses 9 goblin big bosses in 1 unit?:rolleyes:

edit: Wait, was that you or were you reporting about someone else doing it?, I can't remember.

You are confusing the difference between a powergamer and someone who was proving a theory.

w3rm
26-07-2010, 20:05
Great report I throughly enjoyed reading it. Seems like 8th hasnt changed as much as people say it has.