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The Inevitable One
05-07-2010, 19:35
I started to look at various organizations in the Imperium and thought, how do they get a career? Do they simply say I want to be this or are they forced/born into the career? Just wondering because I don't know how such valuable assets such as the Adeptus Custodes are replaced.

Orthodox
05-07-2010, 20:00
I started to look at various organizations in the Imperium and thought, how do they get a career? Do they simply say I want to be this or are they forced/born into the career? Just wondering because I don't know how such valuable assets such as the Adeptus Custodes are replaced.

Adeptus Custodes seem to be artificial life, grown in vats. Many professions, like Navy officers, seem to be born into families, possibly with historical titles or offices; after all, they may be born lightyears from anywhere else, so their childhood may not happen anywhere but on ship and at naval academies, which may be separate from the schola. Lowly Adepts Administratus in the depths of Terran archives seem to inherit their jobs and training directly from their parents.

Generally, there doesn't seem to be any scope for choosing a career, the various Imperial agencies just scoop up the talent they want. It may be closer to soviet apparatchiks and nomenklatura than the civil services of imperial China or the French Republics. It is not easy to just apply to the legiones astartes, for sure.

Everyone who uses the words "schola progenium" after this post is a poncy know-it-all. Srs, read the thread and try to add something that not just anybody could. Yes, they get picked from a scholam somewhere, blah.

Farseer Dave
05-07-2010, 20:04
I started to look at various organizations in the Imperium and thought, how do they get a career? Do they simply say I want to be this or are they forced/born into the career? Just wondering because I don't know how such valuable assets such as the Adeptus Custodes are replaced.

ill deal with your Question in two parts I guess ,

In Relation to Careers in some casses you seem to be born into your job for eg the Navis Nobilite.
I Think in Relation to general Careers it seems to depend on the planet in Question for eg on Vostroya the firstborn of every familiy joins the Imperial Army. on Armageddon the vast majority of ppl would work in the factories producing weapons etc
certain Jobs are also problably highly biased towards your social class on some Imperial Worlds. I would think that to a degree the average joe citizen can choose between the more menial jobs such as being in the pdf or a factory worker etc.

Now on to the Emperors Praetorian Guard , these guys were always a big mystery and it seems that only the Emperor knows how they were created , I think its fair to assume with his Asendancy to the golden throne the Custodes have not incresed their numbers and they are numerically the same as they were post battle of Terra. they no longer engage in missions outside the Palace (publically anyway) and just guard over his throneroom.

Food for thought ,
Farseer Dave.

spetswalshe
05-07-2010, 21:30
It's entirely dependent on the situation you're born into. Most void-born will live and die on the ship of their birth - they might be able to choose from some careers (munitions lackey, hull-repairs lackey, recyc tech, shipboard police), or they might simply replace their parents. Hive dwellers will have little choice; work in the factory, join the Enforcers, join a gang or volunteer for the Guard. Nobles will have more opportunities, but again might be restricted; they could get a commission in the Guard easily enough, or join the Arbites, take over the family business, lapse into hedonism - or their family may expect their firstborn to go straight into the Ecclesiarchy, and that's the end of it.

I would say, for the majority of Imperial citizens, it's a combination of hereditary and skillset. The only actual employment in the area might be the Administratum office, or the AdMech foundry - and given we have entire planets devoted to such things, let alone continents or cities, it seems more likely than not you'll be assigned work. Of course, there will be some leeway - a strong guy on the agri-world might get work as a slaughterman, someone with a fascination for machines might get themselves apprenticed to the local tech-adept, and a violent thug might set up as a ganger or PDF recruit.

Schola Progenium seem like a real cop-out to me. We're told they're orphaned children of Imperial servants - but just how likely is it that a Guard officer have a family? Or that his orphaned children will warrant being sent to a particular planet, in a particular system? Yes, they could be dropped off, if Scholas were present near major Navy docking ports - but what about the Administratum official's orphaned daughter? Is there a Schola on every planet? One in each system? Exactly how do we get this seemingly endless stream of children who've somehow survived the cataclysm that claimed both their parents?

Askil the Undecided
05-07-2010, 22:06
I love how being a ganger is apparently a job choice rather than a criminal escapism in Spetswalshe's post.

Scholae are likely in central locations there's probalby no set answer but there are quite likely to be a handful is any given sub-sector.

The Imperial servants whose kids become progena are those who die while working for the imperium that includes murdered tax collectors, senior clerks who trip over at work and die, IG and Navy officers who die in the line of duty.

Sai-Lauren
06-07-2010, 08:17
I love how being a ganger is apparently a job choice rather than a criminal escapism in Spetswalshe's post.

Some gangers are criminals yes, others could be effectively working for their house - doing everything from security to exploration for resources/technology to recovering lost VIPs to kidnapping members of other houses to actively seizing/destroying assets of other houses. As they're gangs (and all the other houses have them too), they're deniable - if they go too far, then the house will just withdraw their support and they'll become outlaws.

If they survive long enough, the gang will eventually get dissolved and they'll wind up in fairly senior positions within the house - much higher than they could possibly have reached had they stayed out of the gangs and worked their way up normally.

Askil the Undecided
06-07-2010, 08:32
Some gangers are criminals yes, others could be effectively working for their house - doing everything from security to exploration for resources/technology to recovering lost VIPs to kidnapping members of other houses to actively seizing/destroying assets of other houses. As they're gangs (and all the other houses have them too), they're deniable - if they go too far, then the house will just withdraw their support and they'll become outlaws.

If they survive long enough, the gang will eventually get dissolved and they'll wind up in fairly senior positions within the house - much higher than they could possibly have reached had they stayed out of the gangs and worked their way up normally.

You seem to be confusing gang related crime in general across an entire galaxy with Necromunda's house sponsored gang wars.

It's still a criminal escapism from the normal strictures of society it's not a job, it's a way of life outside the law that involves commiting acts either legal or illegal to support a group that operates outside the law and taking your cut of what funds the group has amassed.

Malice313
06-07-2010, 08:40
I've got to go with everyone on the indentured work thing, as it works with the depressing/oppressive nature of the 4+k universe.

It should also be noted the criminal factions do have a lot to do with ones upbringing. Organisations such as the Mafia trace its roots back to a family style criminal operation.

It does not always follow that one who is born into a criminal family will turn out to be one, but being born into violence and poverty and being taught a "loose" moral code does tend to mean that a high proportion of said people to have such tendencies.

Sai-Lauren
06-07-2010, 08:56
You seem to be confusing gang related crime in general across an entire galaxy with Necromunda's house sponsored gang wars.

Erm, no.

The original comment was:


Hive dwellers will have little choice; work in the factory, join the Enforcers, join a gang or volunteer for the Guard


to which you replied


I love how being a ganger is apparently a job choice rather than a criminal escapism in Spetswalshe's post.


So, unless I'm seriously mistaken, we are talking about the house sponsored gang wars, not crime in general.

Anyway, I did say that some gangers are criminals, whether they're tied to a house or independant, and guilty of extortion, murder, drug/gun running, or simply avoiding the current guard founding - but not all of them are.

There's also criminals throughout the hive who aren't gang members - murderers, drug dealers, extortionists, petty thieves, blackmailers etc. Some get caught, others have position and use that to defend themselves.

Askil the Undecided
06-07-2010, 10:44
Oh well, lets not get into this. I think we might have just used the same set of ideas to show different conclusions.

Suffice to say gang crime is not a career path.

Also the enforcers (on necromunda) are arbites and thus are drawn for the progenium.

I imagine generally employment is either hereditary or decided by an aptitude test at the end of education followed by job allocation.

AndrewGPaul
06-07-2010, 12:13
The Necromunda Enforcers aren't Arbites; they're House Helmawr's law enforcement, who just look like Arbites to take advantage of their reputation.

Askil the Undecided
06-07-2010, 12:52
The Necromunda Enforcers aren't Arbites; they're House Helmawr's law enforcement, who just look like Arbites to take advantage of their reputation.

Really? Fair enough, my mistake.

Sinner_74
06-07-2010, 16:55
I would imagine that "career choice" is at least partially dependant on the planet you live on. Obviously highly industrialized worlds will press-gang the population into service and there have been stories about administratum clerks "expiring" at their work stations and not being noticed for years, so I can't really imagine anyone "volunteering" for that...

I think that on the less industrialized worlds some (but not all) Imperial citizens would be able to choose from a few jobs, but have nothing like the choices we have in the modern world... I think that alot of the "service" oriented careers would be available - firefighter, public works, construction, food worker, etc, etc...

There is probably quite a bit of "inheritance" in some career paths, like the ones already stated and I would think that there would be more less-obvious careers that are inherited, such as salesmen, high-end servants, and high-tech jobs...

Iuris
06-07-2010, 18:18
It will significantly depend upon the world.

Some worlds will have a so strong traditonal order, that it'd be unthinkable for a citizen to be anything but the successor of his parents (See: Terra).

Some will be totalitarian societies where oppression forces people into roles asigned to them.

Some will include economic exploitation methods that will force a person into specific careers so they can "work off their debts".

On these worlds, one has no choice. You can only change your lot if someone spots you as special and drags you out for his own purpose. Or, you could run and join the underworld in some capacity.


Some worlds, however, will be more liberal, where everyone gets a chance. Well, something like a chance :)

Green-is-best
06-07-2010, 18:56
Careers in the Imperium:
Bureaucrat
Inquisitor
Space Marine
Tyranid chow