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Sanguine
06-07-2010, 20:17
With the release of the new 8th ed rulebook I wanted to do another army instead of my Tomb Kings and gravitated towards the more heretical path of daemon hood ;)

However, and this probebly won't happen at my local gaming club, but I didn't want people to say to me: "daemons break the game" or "I'm not playing you because you do daemons". I just can't handle all the whining, so I decided to do a themed army: Tzeentchian.

I would greatly appreciate any feedback you guys could provide and all comments are welcome (bad ones not so much ;))

Please remember this is a themed army and in no way is it meant to be competitive.

3000pts Tzeentch

Lords

Lord of Change: 450pts
Level 4: 85pts

Gifts

Twin heads: 75pts
Or Tzeentch's will: 70pts
Dark Magister: 25pts
Or Flames of Tzeentch: 25pts

Total 630/635pts

Heroes

Herald of Tzeentch: 115pts

Gifts

Flames of Tzeentch: 25pts
Spell Breaker: 25pts

Herald of Tzeentch: 115pts

Gifts

Flames of Tzeentch: 25pts
Spell Breaker: 25pts
Or Master of Sorcery: 25pts

Total: 330pts

Core

30 Horror's: 360pts
Full command: 18pts
Changling: 60pts

30 Horror's: 360pts
Full command: 30pts
Banner of Change: 25pts

Total: 853

Special

4 units of 6 Screamers: 720

Total: 720pts

Rare

2 units of 6 flamers: 420pts
Both with Pyrocaster: 30pts

Total: 450pts

Army total: 2988pts (Might make this up to 3000 by adding another horror)

ooglatjama
06-07-2010, 20:22
This looks pretty good. I would add MOS on some stuff just to get lore of death. You need the extra PD and template destruction to deal with hordes and the fact that you are wizard heavy.

Falkman
06-07-2010, 21:50
There's not much you can do with a mono-god Tzeentch list in 8th, but I'd at least advice you to take Master of Sorcery on some of your wizards, since the BRB lores are generally just better than the Tzeentch lore.
Other than that, you got infantry who can't fight, flyers who can't fight, and shooters that are ungodly at shooting.

Sanguine
06-07-2010, 22:06
There's not much you can do with a mono-god Tzeentch list in 8th, but I'd at least advice you to take Master of Sorcery on some of your wizards, since the BRB lores are generally just better than the Tzeentch lore.
Other than that, you got infantry who can't fight, flyers who can't fight, and shooters that are ungodly at shooting.

It's true that it might require a bit of finess to be able to play with them, but I never made this list to be competitive, just themed.

But the flyers (I assume your talking about the screamers) arn't used to fight it's the special slashing attacks that I'm taking them for, each unit taking 6 s5 hits per unit of screamers is nasty, thats potentially 24 s5 automatic hits per turn.

As for the flamer's I suppose it's all down to luck as to whether I get good shots from them, but I at least get 6 s4 shots per turn.

Falkman
06-07-2010, 22:09
But the flyers (I assume your talking about the screamers) arn't used to fight it's the special slashing attacks that I'm taking them for, each unit taking 6 s5 hits per unit of screamers is nasty, thats potentially 24 s5 automatic hits per turn.
Yeah I know, but they're just so fragile, and since the enemy won't have any other reasonable targets for shooting, they'll just die very fast.
Kudos for doing it anyway, in 7th I would've cursed at the list, now it's just another subpar themed list :).

noT_Him
06-07-2010, 22:12
Guys I have a question - how does Glean magic work ? Lets say my friend plays elves he has purple sun of xerxus - I say glean magic and can i choose the higher casting cost version of this spell ?

The tzeensh lore under new rules looks totaly sick ...

Bodysnatcher
06-07-2010, 22:26
I play monogod Tzeentch.

My current list is as follows for 2000pts:

Tzeentch Daemonic Legion

Characters

Lords 25%

Amon Chakai - Lord of Change
+ Dark Magister
+ Iridescent Corona

Heroes 24%

The Blue Scribes of Tzeentch

Bellaphron - Herald of Tzeentch
+ Spell Breaker
+ Master of Sorcery (death)
+ Battle Standard
+ Banner of Unholy Victory

OmniSeer - Herald of Tzeentch
+ Spell Breaker (life)
+ Master of Sorcery

Troops

Core 43%

Bellaphron's Horde - 50 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch
+ Musician
+ Changeling
+ Standard
+ Icon of Sorcery

The Seething Ron'We -10 Pink Horrors of Tzeentch
+ Musician
+ Irridescent Horror
+ Standard
+ Icon of Sorcery


Rare 8%

Incinerus Foci - 4 Flamers of Tzeentch
+ Pyrocaster

Both heralds sit in the horror bunker and the small horror unit lurks. The Lord of Change is marginally better in combat than before too.

Sanguine
06-07-2010, 22:29
Guys I have a question - how does Glean magic work ? Lets say my friend plays elves he has purple sun of xerxus - I say glean magic and can i choose the higher casting cost version of this spell ?

The tzeensh lore under new rules looks totaly sick ...

Glean magic will need FAQ'ing because it's cast as a bound spell, but in 8th you need to use power dice to cast bound spell's so it turns out you need to cast glean magic with your own dice, then cast another spell with your own dice. Pretty pointless.

GodlessM
06-07-2010, 22:31
To be honest only Slaanesh is all that great at mono-God in 8th. Nurgle has been nerfed, Tzeentch loses out on mega magic, and Khorne in too one dimensional.

Bodysnatcher
06-07-2010, 22:33
Glean magic will need FAQ'ing because it's cast as a bound spell, but in 8th you need to use power dice to cast bound spell's so it turns out you need to cast glean magic with your own dice, then cast another spell with your own dice. Pretty pointless.

It's effectively cast irresistably (you must dispel the glean, you cannot attempt to dispel the yoinked spell) according to the 7th ed FAQ.

Sanguine
06-07-2010, 22:37
@Bodysnatcher

Good looking army, how do you find it plays?

Bodysnatcher
06-07-2010, 22:53
@Bodysnatcher

Good looking army, how do you find it plays?

Only two games under 8th so far.
The big unit of horrors is a reliable magic user - with little to worry about if I miscast and +5 to cast.
The lore of life herald means I get a real nasty tubthumping changeling (champion always ressurected first).
Lord of change finds it a bit harder to get spells off, but he's nifty against ranked infantry.
Bluescribes are seriously hit and miss, but I've not played against a magic heavy army. We've been playing they have to roll to cast as a bound spell, but can always switch the spell they roll to the signature spell.

Zaustus
07-07-2010, 00:57
Funny, I was just thinking about resurrecting my Tzeentch daemons today. With plastic Horrors coming soon, it'll be a tempting option, and hopefully not as over-the-top as it was under 7th (and 6th--I built the army as a Storm of Chaos daemonic legion).

Here's what I had in mind as a 2500 list (no special characters because I don't like using them):

Lords - 24.6%
Lord of Change, Level 4, Master of Sorcery (Life), Power Vortex, Daemonic Robes

Heroes - 16.2%
Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery (Metal), Spell Breaker, Battle Standard, Great Standard of Sundering

Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery (Shadow), Spell Breaker

Core - 43%
41 Horrors, Full Command, Icon of Sorcery

41 Horrors, Full Command, Icon of Sorcery

Special - 7.2%
6 Screamers

Rare - 9%
6 Flamers, Pyrocaster

LeSquide
07-07-2010, 03:25
Funny, I was just thinking about resurrecting my Tzeentch daemons today. With plastic Horrors coming soon, it'll be a tempting option, and hopefully not as over-the-top as it was under 7th (and 6th--I built the army as a Storm of Chaos daemonic legion).

Here's what I had in mind as a 2500 list (no special characters because I don't like using them):

Lords - 24.6%
Lord of Change, Level 4, Master of Sorcery (Life), Power Vortex, Daemonic Robes

Heroes - 16.2%
Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery (Metal), Spell Breaker, Battle Standard, Great Standard of Sundering

Herald of Tzeentch, Master of Sorcery (Shadow), Spell Breaker

Core - 43%
41 Horrors, Full Command, Icon of Sorcery

41 Horrors, Full Command, Icon of Sorcery

Special - 7.2%
6 Screamers

Rare - 9%
6 Flamers, Pyrocaster

Are you expecting to run those horrors mostly in Horde, or with less width for more Steadfast?

Zaustus
07-07-2010, 05:18
I see no reason whatsoever to run Horrors in a horde. Their attacks are crappy. It's far better to run them 5-wide to maximize their steadfast-ness.

Bodysnatcher
07-07-2010, 06:49
I see no reason whatsoever to run Horrors in a horde. Their attacks are crappy. It's far better to run them 5-wide to maximize their steadfast-ness.

Ditto, running the 50 unit 5 wide for defence.
Plus if you do get into a state where the extra attacks will be useful, then you reform after combat.

Sanguine
07-07-2010, 08:12
I see no reason whatsoever to run Horrors in a horde. Their attacks are crappy. It's far better to run them 5-wide to maximize their steadfast-ness.

It's the fact that their attacks are crappy, that I put the changeling in 1 unit and the banner of change in another, a mimicing character and 3d6 s2 hits before comabt might dissuade people from attacking them.

Looking at your lists do you believe that Master of Socery is a good gift to take for all my characters?

Falkman
07-07-2010, 10:53
Pretty much, yeah. Master of Sorcery really is amazing with the new rulebook lores, and with Heralds gaining 7 spells instead of the 2 they would have without it.
If you want to have someone with Lore of Tzeentch I'd suggest the Lord of Change, since he knows all spells and therefore is sure to get Boon, which is a great spell in 8th.

Bodysnatcher
07-07-2010, 18:26
The Lord of change also doesn't get much pay off from level 4 - it's a lot of points for +2 to cast.

Falkman
07-07-2010, 18:34
+2 to dispel is the important bit.

NitrosOkay
07-07-2010, 18:38
The Lord of change also doesn't get much pay off from level 4 - it's a lot of points for +2 to cast.

+2 to dispel as well?

And extra resistance to hex scrolls.

And resistance to lose magic level miscasts?

Seems worth it.

Bodysnatcher
07-07-2010, 19:32
I prefer to use the whacking great unit of horrors for the dispellage. And if someone's using hex scrolls they've not got dispell scrolls.
And in my opinion increasing the LofC by 20% from basic in a small army is too much.

Zaustus
08-07-2010, 00:41
It's a fair point. Leaving the LoC L2 or L3 is a good way to save some points in a smaller game. At 2k you could still take him with Master of Sorcery and Daemonic Robes, have 7 BRB spells and still have a +4 to dispel with a big brick of Horrors. Hmm...

And yes, I think Master of Sorcery is pretty much mandatory now for Heralds of Tzeentch. It's insanely cheap for what it does now.

thesheriff
08-07-2010, 09:18
Agreed, the extra dispel is with it. That's wh most skaven and any mortal Armies will have one simply to add 4 to any dispel roll
and he gets an extra 2 spells, which is always nice

thesheriff

Sanguine
08-07-2010, 09:29
well the general consensus seems to be to keep the LoC as lv 2 and give him master of sorcery, how about giving him spell breaker as well?

Keep my heralds but give them both master of sorcery, what other gift should they have?

Falkman
08-07-2010, 11:25
and he gets an extra 2 spells, which is always nice
A LoC always know the entire Tzeentch lore regardless of level.

Zaustus
08-07-2010, 13:47
well the general consensus seems to be to keep the LoC as lv 2 and give him master of sorcery, how about giving him spell breaker as well?

Keep my heralds but give them both master of sorcery, what other gift should they have?

Interesting fact: Lords of Change cannot take Spell Breaker. They can take Spell Destroyer, but that's twice as many points.

I like Master of Sorcery and Spell Breaker for the heralds, myself.

Gaargod
08-07-2010, 13:54
I'm suprised you aren't trying to fit a power vortex or 2 in there. When you're playing effectively magic heavy, you need as many dice as you can get your hands on.

Zaustus
08-07-2010, 13:56
I put Power Vortex on the LoC in the list I posted. The problem with it for Heralds is that you can't take both PV and Master of Sorcery, and the latter is better.

Sanguine
08-07-2010, 18:53
And in the new rules wizards don't generate power dice anymore, so power vortex will need to be FAQ'ed.