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taer
26-02-2006, 21:05
I wasn't able to find this by using the search function, though I know I've seen it before...

Anyways, since the staff of darkoth is a magic item (An Arcane magic item to be exact) that counts as a braystaff in close combat does that mean

A) That it counts as a magic weapon and you must use it no matter what else you are armed with

B) That you cannot take any items from the Magic Weapons section since you can't use multiple magic weapons

C) Does it make magical attacks in HTH thereby allowing it to wound ethereal creatures?

Jim Reaper
26-02-2006, 22:05
Never thought about that before. I'd think that the wording "counts as a braystaff" means weapon-wise you just assume its a braystaff, i.e. doesn't stop you taking a magical weapon, but doesn't count as magical vs. ethereal creatures.

Just my opinion though.

PelsBoble
26-02-2006, 22:17
Ive always been of the opinion that the bray staff does actualy deal magic
damage.

Even gav stated this, but it is by no means the end to the discussion since Gav is known to state some illogical things:

Link: http://warhammer.org.uk/PhP/viewtopic.php?t=9258&highlight=darkoth



Just to clear it up for those that are a bit slow or perhaps just evilly inclined:

a. The Staff of Darkoth is a magic item.
b. A braystaff can be a weapon.

a+b= magic weapon.

Come on folks, it really can't be that much of a debate.

GAV
_________________
It is the real me. Any rules answers/ clarifications, etc are unofficial until printed (and that doesn't mean printed on your laserwriter…).

taer
26-02-2006, 23:27
So...A,B,and C?

PelsBoble
27-02-2006, 10:22
I would say so. Seems strange that an arcane item should stop you from taking a weapon but thats what makes most sense in this case.

MarcoPollo
27-02-2006, 15:31
So, then what would happen if a Wargor of Tzeetch took the staff of Darkoth. I seem to recall a thread where it was discussed before and the Tzeetch wargor could take it.

If this is the case, then shouldn't a Wargor or Tzeetch be allowed to take a braystaff (mundane type)? In effect, making a great weapon on a Tzeetch wargor, or Beastlord obsolete?

metro_gnome
27-02-2006, 16:21
i can't see why...

the bray staff is not listed under the wargor entry...
you have no idea how much it would cost...

they can take the staff of darkhoth because it is an arcane item...
and this is the only way they can get a braystaff type item...

PelsBoble
27-02-2006, 17:58
Ye i would agree. The only thing that bugs me on the tzeen wargor is the chaos armor+enchanted shield+braystaff = 0+ armor save in close combat. Since the item doesnt state it needs two hands to be used defensive.

A long discussion about this can be found on most forums tho.

taer
27-02-2006, 18:31
Mount him on a chariot and it's a -2+ armor save >.<

Oh wait, you can't!

Wickerman71
27-02-2006, 22:52
Q. The Staff of Darkoth is an Arcane magic item which holds a spell and
"counts as a Braystaff" in close combat. The text does not explicitly
state that the attacks "count as magical", hence there is confusion
over whether or not attacks from the Staff of Darkoth "count
as magical". Can you please clarify this for us?

A. I would say that the attacks count as magical.

As posted on the DireWolf just to back up what as been said. As for being forced to use the Staff in CC I don't know as the Magic Weapon Slot is still free to the Shaman. If he was to chose one he would be forced to use that in CC over the staff.

taer
27-02-2006, 22:55
As posted on the DireWolf just to back up what as been said. As for being forced to use the Staff in CC I don't know as the Magic Weapon Slot is still free to the Shaman. If he was to chose one he would be forced to use that in CC over the staff.


I'm not so sure on that. It only says magic weapons must be used if you have one, not items chosen from the Magic Weapons section, IIRC. Which means that if you are allowed to chose from the magic weapons section even if you have a Bray staff, that would now mean you would have two weapons that you MUST use in CC, but that you are not allowed to use both of them. So would you get to chose, or would the resulting paradox suck your Bray-shaman into the warp?

mageith
27-02-2006, 23:16
I'm not so sure on that. It only says magic weapons must be used if you have one, not items chosen from the Magic Weapons section, IIRC. Which means that if you are allowed to chose from the magic weapons section even if you have a Bray staff, that would now mean you would have two weapons that you MUST use in CC, but that you are not allowed to use both of them. So would you get to chose, or would the resulting paradox suck your Bray-shaman into the warp?
I agree. Based on the more recent comment by Gav that the SoD is actually a Magical Weapon ("a=b=magic weapon") instead of merely having magical attacks, its use would be mandated if purchased. (Of course, I was surprised that Gav thinks the SoD is a magical weapon to begin with.)

Mage Ith

Wickerman71
28-02-2006, 02:30
Merely having magical attacks does not a magic weapon make; Wight Blades being a prime example. I my self feel; that Gav's current thinking might be that the Staff of Darkoth should have been a Magic Weapon for Shamans Only. It's hard to say though as there is not allot of context for treating an Arcane Item as a weapon.

mageith
28-02-2006, 02:37
Merely having magical attacks does not a magic weapon make;

Perhaps. I understood that what you were saying with the Direwolf quote. However Gav's subsequent comment explictily referred to it as a magic weapon. None of it's official, though.

Still because of that I'd count it as magic weapon. That doesn't mean my opponents will though.



Wight Blades being a prime example.

??? "Any normal weapon carried by a Wight counts as a magic weapon..." (VC 27)

taer
28-02-2006, 02:44
I wonder if you can Vaul's unmaking a hand weapon held by a wight champion

Wickerman71
28-02-2006, 04:20
Perhaps. I understood that what you were saying with the Direwolf quote. However Gav's subsequent comment explictily referred to it as a magic weapon. None of it's official, though.

Still because of that I'd count it as magic weapon. That doesn't mean my opponents will though.


??? "Any normal weapon carried by a Wight counts as a magic weapon..." (VC 27)

Counting as a Magic Weapon is not the same as being a Magic Weapon (ie. Grave Guard are fully free to use either Halberds or Hand Weapons). I would also say that if the Shaman had the Sword of Might & The Staff of Darkoth that he must use the Sword over the Staff. Why; because I'm sure the Sword is a Magic Weapon where as I just have a unofficial half ass answer for the Staff. If my opponent where to take the Staff & no other Magic Weapon I would expect him to use the Staff & considering the combo why wouldn't he. Though if a Beast Lord of Tzeentch armed with the Staff & a Great Weapon (or extra HW) came along I have no context within the rules (at least not a concrete one) too insist that he cannot use the GW or AHW in CC. No where did Gav address this in his post; he made no mention that taking the staff barred you from taking another Magic Weapon from your allotment nor did he errata the Item into a Magic Weapon. In short Gav's unofficial statment can be taken as counting as a Magic Weapon.