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Trick
06-07-2010, 22:56
Hi all!
Looking for advice on using Dwarfs in a close quarters role to suit the army below, inspired by Karak Kadrin, Slayer Keep and its residents. I've gone for minimal shooting and zero artillery in favour of fluff and character (I'm well aware that Karak Kadrin will have just as many cannons and guns as most strongholds, but I want to emphasise the abundance of Slayers). Speaking of character, I think that a Slayer-themed army is the perfect oppurtunity to pack a lot of characters into an army hence the large number of Lord/Hero units.

I'd like help making this army into something fun and playable please. Any hints and suggestions on how to fine tune these units?

The Oathsworn Host of Karak Kadrin

Lords (210pts)
Daemon Slayer; Master Rune of Alaric the Mad, 2x Rune of Fury
210pts *joins first Slayer unit

Heroes (426pts)
Thane; Rune of Preservation, Shield, Great Weapon
86pts *joins Warriors unit
Dragon Slayer; Master Rune Of Smiting, Rune Of Speed
125pts *joins second Slayer unit
Dragon Slayer; Rune Of Speed, Rune Of Striking, Rune Of Fire
70pts *joins third Slayer unit
Thane; BSB, Strollaz's Rune
145pts *joins Warriors

Core (515pts)
25 Karak Kadrin Cityguard (Warriors); Shields, Full Command
225pts
10 Karak Kadrin Cityguard (Quarrellers); Musician, Shields, Great Weapons
145pts
10 Karak Kadrin Cityguard (Quarrellers); Musician, Shields, Great Weapons
145pts

Special (849pts)
20 Slayers; Standard, Musician, 2 Giant Slayers
283pts
20 Slayers; Standard, Musician, 2 Giant Slayers
283pts
20 Slayers; Standard, Musician, 2 Giant Slayers
283pts

Total: 2,000pts


The general idea is to deploy in a refused flank to keep my army close together and deny a flank to the enemy. I will now have the Warriors unit in the centre of my line with the General and BSB allowing all the units in the vicintiy to make use of Strollaz's to aid the Slayers (who will deploy in front and to the side of the Warriors) to close with the enemy. The Quarrellers will guard the refused flank. The Slayer characters are designed for individual roles such as character-killing and horde-killing and are designed to leave their respective units as and when their time to shine arises in order to seek their doom.

Cheers

Trick

Cheers

Trick

brother slaughterer
07-07-2010, 12:01
I like the look of this army...however Im not sure how it will play.
I will have to wait till I get home to look at my Dwarf book but I would possibly drop one thane and take more slayers.

Not sure how the small warrior unit will stack up either...too small in my opinion to resist a concerted attack

Not sure how slayers will perform in horde formation...will 2 extra ranks lose their additional attack for slayer axes?
If they can keep that extra attack then definitely worth it but i dont think they can keep it.

certainly a fun list to play IMHO

good luck

TonyFlow
08-07-2010, 02:03
First of all thanes cannot join slayer units as they are not unbreakable. So your BSB will have to join the other units.

The warrior and Long beard units are simply too small. It will only take a small amount of enemy shooting/magic to take them out. Make it a 25 strong warrior unit and put your un-unbreakable characters there.

Too many giant slayers in the slayer units, they are simply not worth it. And in the big one there are so many, that they will not all be in the front rank. If they are in the second rank they only get to attack with one attack, making them worthless.
As for sizes i think 15 is not enough considering they have no armour save. They will be a prime target for any shooting and magic.
You should consider giving your BSB the master rune of grungni giving units within 6" a 5+ ward save against shooting and magic missiles. But him in a big warrior unit with two big slayer units on each side. March up prebattle, march again and you are already in position for a turn 2 charge. This way they only have one turn (two if they started) to shoot you in and you have your ward save to minimize casualties.

For characters: Now that you are going slayer, i would consider giving your deamon slayer a more deadly weapon... Maybe Master Rune of Smiting and two Rune of Cleaving making him str6 with d6 wounds.
One dragon slayer could have master rune of swiftness, rune of cleaving and rune of fury and some other combination on the last dragon slayer.

Save the points on less giant slayers and combining units... I havent calculated how any of my suggestions work out pointswise, but i think you might do better this way.

Hope you find it helpful and best of luck. It is nice to see someone taking a different approach to dwarfs

Trick
08-07-2010, 10:58
Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I've made a few changes to the list above with some of your suggestions and advice.



Not sure how slayers will perform in horde formation...will 2 extra ranks lose their additional attack for slayer axes?
I removed the Slayer Horde and evened out the numbers between the three units. I wasn't too sure if a Horde of slow moving models might be too unwieldy in an already poorly manouvring army. I've also significantly reduced the number of Giant Slayers in the army to save points (and boy did I save) though there are still a good few for those added attacks.


Not sure how the small warrior unit will stack up either...too small in my opinion to resist a concerted attack

The warrior and Long beard units are simply too small. It will only take a small amount of enemy shooting/magic to take them out. Make it a 25 strong warrior unit and put your un-unbreakable characters there.
Done. A big block of Warriors will be much better support for the Slayers and with this army I don't really need to make much use of the Longbeard special rules. The Thanes will now join this unit.


I will have to wait till I get home to look at my Dwarf book but I would possibly drop one thane and take more slayers.
As much as I'd like to take all Slayers I need one Thane for my General (cheaper than a Runesmith) and Strollaz's will be invaluable for a combat-orientated Dwarf army so I need the BSB.


For characters: Now that you are going slayer, i would consider giving your deamon slayer a more deadly weapon... Maybe Master Rune of Smiting and two Rune of Cleaving making him str6 with d6 wounds.
That would be 10 more points than the Daemon Slayer's Rune allowance unfortunatley. I've left the runes as they are on the characters but I am considering alternatives.

Thanks again and keep the suggestions coming!

Trick

Trick
18-12-2010, 10:49
Now that 8th edition is a little older and more thoroughly tested by you fine folk, and now that Avatars of War are on the verge of releasing a brilliant looking plastic Berzerker kit (32 Slayers for 30, brilliant), I thought I'd try and get some advice on this army list based on current thoughts and perceptions on Dwarfs and 8th edition.

As I said in the first post this army needs to be fun to play with but at the same time I'd like it to be a fairly capable list with the ability to hold its own and win.

Obviously the theme is Karak Kadrin so I want as many Slayers as possible. Do they work better in small units or as larger hordes? What about supporting units? Will the Warrior and Quarreller units be able to provide enough support?

Thanks for any help and advice!

Trick

Carnivorous
18-12-2010, 14:13
8th ed is all about large infantry blocks

A such I would consider merging our slayers into, say, 2 blocks of 30.
That way you can also save money on a musician and standard, and get another giant slayer.

You're also in dire need of magic defenses. I am sure the 'fluffiness' won't mind a Runesmith with a MRoB at the very least

And since you're going for the slayer fluff, take out the regular warriors and quarrelers, add a few warmachines and take more slayers.

(if you're good at modeling/ converting, it would be cool to see a few slayers manning a cannon or GT)

Trick
18-12-2010, 14:18
(if you're good at modeling/ converting, it would be cool to see a few slayers manning a cannon or GT)

Thanks for the advice, I might try and squeeze a Runesmith in there if I can find the points. I like the idea of 2 large Slayer blocks but will that not limit by flexibility even more?

Warmachines isn't a bad idea either. Can probably make room for one or two of those, though they'd be crewed by regular Dwarfs rather than Slayers. It is entirely un-Slayerlike to use any ranged weaponry, not least a warmachine (unless you're Makaisson and his Goblin-Hewer).
Cheers

Trick

thesheriff
18-12-2010, 15:07
Does anyone mind you using the storms of chaos rules at your gaming club? If your using non-gw sculpts you cant be playing at a gw.

As doomseekers and the king are definatly cool aspects that would suit the army.

thesheriff

Leogun_91
19-12-2010, 13:39
Naked slayer characters are better value. Replace the runes on your slayers with more slayers. You have a single dragonslayer costing 125pts, thats not too short of being able to replace him with three slayers, currently your 2 dragonslayers costs rougly as much as 4 dragonslayers without dealing close to that much damage, just skip the runes.
With the daemonslayer I would also recommend replacing him with two naked daemonslayers, if you find yourself low on pts remove a number of normal slayers equal to the numbers of new character slayers you get and you might even have some pts to spare.