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Harbinger
07-07-2010, 03:13
As the title says...

1) Do Necron Lords have any motives beyond exterminating life or serving the C'tan? I know they have faint memories, do these impact their actions at all or create a semblance of a goal?

2) I know that some human cults and mechanicus worship the C'tan, are there any references to the same for the Necrons? Or is it simply a case of the Necrons would exterminate everything?

3) Assuming that a Tomb World can be destroyed (Planet Killer, Melta-Torpedoes, Eldar Super Weapon), how do Necrons replenish these? Can the build another one? Would they take other races and make them Necrons? I know the Pariahs are a variant based off of humans that are psychic nulls, but would non-nulls be made into regular Necrons to replace the loss of a Tomb World or Necron that was damaged beyond repair?

Thanks in advance.

azimaith
07-07-2010, 03:30
As the title says...

1) Do Necron Lords have any motives beyond exterminating life or serving the C'tan? I know they have faint memories, do these impact their actions at all or create a semblance of a goal?

Necrons only motivation is serving the C'tan. They don't even care about exterminating all life (though they may in fact hate it), in fact they C'tan opposed to it, as doing such would deny them their favorite treats. All life being nearly exterminated is what put the C'tan into hibernation.

Necrons do have memories. How faint they are depends on how many times they've apparently been reconstructed which causes their memory engrams to become corrupted until they become nothing but shambling automatons. In previous editions before necrons apparently ran on MS-DOS and had their file transfers done by incompetents only necron lords were specifically shown to have much in the way of memories.



2) I know that some human cults and mechanicus worship the C'tan, are there any references to the same for the Necrons? Or is it simply a case of the Necrons would exterminate everything?

Worship of the C'tan is the same as to the Necrons as the C'tan control them. Necrons don't just kill everything, they do however, do what they are told. There's theoretically no reason the Necrons, led by a lord of suitably strong personality removed from the C'tans grasp could have followers in a religious fashion.



3) Assuming that a Tomb World can be destroyed (Planet Killer, Melta-Torpedoes, Eldar Super Weapon), how do Necrons replenish these? Can the build another one?

We know tomb worlds can and have been subject to exterminatus but not the extent of the damage. One would assume they would use their planet destroying cyclonic torpedoes rather than the method of atmospheric incineration and virus bombing as that can be survived even by humans (and tyranids) who are sheltered under the ground.

There is no reason why they could not build another one and at the same time there is no fluff saying they have. Obviously they built enough to shelter most, if not all of the Necrons before they went into hibernation.



Would they take other races and make them Necrons? I know the Pariahs are a variant based off of humans that are psychic nulls, but would non-nulls be made into regular Necrons to replace the loss of a Tomb World or Necron that was damaged beyond repair?
Possibly, I don't know that the C'tan would feel they needed to however. The necron army uses many variants of pure robotics that behave in sophisticated ways, there's no apparent reason why a tomb spyders programming couldn't also be attached to a Necron warrior (though it wouldn't be a "true" necron so to speak.) There's no evidence that prevents it from being possible and there is no background that specifically states they can and will make more.

Obviously necrons are "made", in absence of any background stating why they couldn't be made I would assume its entirely possible. Same with building tomb worlds.

Son of Sanguinius
07-07-2010, 05:14
As the title says...

1) Do Necron Lords have any motives beyond exterminating life or serving the C'tan? I know they have faint memories, do these impact their actions at all or create a semblance of a goal?

Some Necron Lords have retained some semblance of personality. On a practical level in a war setting, this allows for improvisation in tactics and ingenuity. For the Lords personally, they seem to be motivated either by undying faith in the C'tan or a general hatred of the living, though if either are programmed into them we don't know it.


2) I know that some human cults and mechanicus worship the C'tan, are there any references to the same for the Necrons? Or is it simply a case of the Necrons would exterminate everything?

If you're asking do humans worship Necrons and do the Necrons with enough understanding of it exploit this, then such a scenario is certainly possible. But ultimately the Necrons are meant to exterminate all legitimate resistance so their masters can feed.


3) Assuming that a Tomb World can be destroyed (Planet Killer, Melta-Torpedoes, Eldar Super Weapon), how do Necrons replenish these? Can the build another one? Would they take other races and make them Necrons? I know the Pariahs are a variant based off of humans that are psychic nulls, but would non-nulls be made into regular Necrons to replace the loss of a Tomb World or Necron that was damaged beyond repair?

Thanks in advance.

One would think there are multitudes of tomb words that are yet to be discovered by any other race, even the Eldar. Moreover, some worlds lie beneath unwitting civilizations who don't know enough about the subterranean threat and would be hesitant to wipe out their own world even if they did. It doesn't seem to be a situation where the Necrons are in need of bases of operations, and the loss of a few doesn't matter to them in the slightest. That said, I would imagine they are perfectly capable of forming new worlds into tomb worlds.

And theoretically, no Necron can be damaged beyond repair. When the damaged warrior phases back to the tomb, it can be used to make an entirely new warrior or simply rehash its old shape.

The Inevitable One
07-07-2010, 05:47
3) Assuming that a Tomb World can be destroyed (Planet Killer, Melta-Torpedoes, Eldar Super Weapon), how do Necrons replenish these? Can the build another one? Would they take other races and make them Necrons? I know the Pariahs are a variant based off of humans that are psychic nulls, but would non-nulls be made into regular Necrons to replace the loss of a Tomb World or Necron that was damaged beyond repair?

Thanks in advance.

3) Yes, there have been attempts by the C'tan to integrate other races into becoming Necrons. The Silvae, an alien race, were contacted by the Deceiver and it has been suggested that they were probably going to be the next in line in becoming Necrons.

"Here, it seems to be testing them, promising the race as a whole greatness at its side should they prove worthy." - Codex: Necrons page 50

It has been suggested that the reason for trying to recruit other races is because of the heavy loses in the War of Heaven between the Eldar Pantheon and the C'tan. Unfortunately, he (Deceiver) saw them "slipping back to barbarism" and decided to eliminate a very large portion of the Silvae race. Although the Deceiver did not wipe them all out, they were unable survive because of the lack of variety in the Silvae's DNA/RNA.

Hope that helps.

Stonerhino
07-07-2010, 13:42
It has been suggested that the reason for trying to recruit other races is because of the heavy loses in the War of Heaven between the Eldar Pantheon and the C'tanI think at the time of the Silvae plot the Deciever was trying to take over without risking waking any other C'Tan. So with a new fighting force the Deciever may have been able to do something different. But since the plan did not work and he has gained no headway with his plan for greaterness. He has since desided he needs the remaining C'Tan.

For question 1. There are at least two different types of Necron lord. The first is created with a created personality to complete a goal or defeat an enemy. The second and far more dangerous are the ones that still remember their old lives as Necrontyr. These literaly have thousands if not millions of years of expirence and can think creatatively about their current situation.

For example the Silent King (Codex Blood Angels time line) I believe is one of these Lords. Bases on the fact that he had Dante stretched to the limit of his tactical brilliance. Then changed his strat and fought against the Tyranids instead of just finishing off the Blood Angels.

Edit:
Note, that I mean "Thousands if not millions of years of expirence" as time spent on the battlefield and not just time alive.

Lord Damocles
07-07-2010, 17:35
1) Do Necron Lords have any motives beyond exterminating life or serving the C'tan? I know they have faint memories, do these impact their actions at all or create a semblance of a goal?
That would depend upon what you class as 'serving the C'tan'. Lords have been shown to have had a variety of goals beyond just killing stuff (although stuff often dies in the process) - for example collecting psychic blanks (Index Xenos: Necrons, in White Dwarf 271, pg.23), infiltrating organisations (Xenology), documenting various races (Xenology & Collecters' Edition booklet), creating Pylons etc. (The Fall of Medusa V, pg.22) or whatever.

While, 'Most [Lords] are mindless, pure, undistracted by personality' there are those who were, 'converted and purified but not cleansed of memory. [They] remember the frailty of emotion, the weakness of the flesh, the imperfection of mortality' (Xenolgy).
Some Lords do appear to be able to act towards their own ends to some extent: '...some Necron Lords lead their minions on bloody harvests, murdering millions in an attempt to quench their rage. Others have been driven utterly insane by the weight of aeons. Believing themselves the incarnations of ancient gods [presumeably C'tan], these Necron Lords have their conciousnesses grafted into ever newer and more grandiose forms as they embark on campaigns of conquest and destruction'. (Rulebook (5th ed.), pg.179).



2) I know that some human cults and mechanicus worship the C'tan, are there any references to the same for the Necrons? Or is it simply a case of the Necrons would exterminate everything?
There appear to be multiple cults on Imperial worlds which specifically worship Necrons [as opposed to the C'tan] ('The Necron Threat' in Warhammer Monthly) - although it's not clear whether (and one might think it unlikely) they are in direct contact with Necron constructs.
There are, however, numerous instances of Necrons *not* just killing everything they come into contact with. Besides the Silvae (Codex: Necrons, pg. 50) and Xenology (both Darvus as a captive and Sasham in the control room) there's the Diggas' apparant alliance on Angelis (Digganob, pg.7), the taking of the unfortunate child on N'Kele (Index Xenos: Necrons, in White Dwarf 271, pg.23), the abductions during the Gakal Atrocities ('Dying Flame: The Last Stand of the Firbrands' in White Dwarf 287, pg.67 (amoungst others eg. Cthelmax (Codex: Necrons, pg.59), and the boy who had his glands removed (BFG Armada, pg.78).



3) Assuming that a Tomb World can be destroyed (Planet Killer, Melta-Torpedoes, Eldar Super Weapon), how do Necrons replenish these? Can the build another one? Would they take other races and make them Necrons? I know the Pariahs are a variant based off of humans that are psychic nulls, but would non-nulls be made into regular Necrons to replace the loss of a Tomb World or Necron that was damaged beyond repair?
It would appear that Necrons can create new Warriors outside of their tomb-forges ('The Scopios Incident' in White Dwarf 249, pg.69-70). However it is unknown whether non-Necrontyr minds/essences etc. can be put into new Necron bodies.
If nothing else, it would seem fairly short sighted of the C'tan / Necrontyr to start a war on an inter-glactic scale without having some way of aquiring new troops - since all of the Necrontyr were either killed or turned into Necrons, they're not going to be increasing their population base in a hurry...

canucklhead
07-07-2010, 22:27
Here is the best analogy to being a Necron I can give you. (this is only my take on it). Some cool guy offers you the most amazing sports car you've ever seen. Straight up, you're in that car, dreaming of how cool you're going to be.

Gotcha: the car is locked, you can't get out. You also can't seem to drive the damn thing. The dude has a remote and is firmly at the wheel. then the car starts barrellilng through the park at full speed, running down anything that moves. And you get to just sit there and watch. Worse still, every time the car gets damaged, it repairs itself. Finally the swat team blows the car to smithereens, and you along with it. At least the nightmare is over. NOT. The bits teleport to the dude's garage, and he rebuilds it, with you still inside, sort of put back together, and really unhappy about it.

Repeat ad nauseum for about a million years, and you have the basic mentality of a necron Lord.

Idaan
07-07-2010, 22:31
Xenology begs to differ. And so does, though it pains to say this, the Blood Angel codex. The Necron Lords in there show more free will than your analogy indicates.

Son of Sanguinius
07-07-2010, 22:36
Xenology begs to differ. And so does, though it pains to say this, the Blood Angel codex. The Necron Lords in there show more free will than your analogy indicates.

I feel that pain acutely. That was perhaps the most upsetting bit of background I've read in years.

ForgottenLore
07-07-2010, 22:49
I've always been under the impression that necrons controlled their bodies and could think but that the c-tan tricked them and programed the bodies so that they could only think in certain ways

canucklhead
08-07-2010, 00:16
I think, (without any text handy), that the Higher up necrontyr who willingly went over to the C'tan kept some traits of both personality and functionality. Over time, most of these traits have been lost in almost all of the Lords, as the weight of time and hopelessness shred the eager blood lust of even the most twisted sociopath among them. Hating everything, even themselves, most are kept under a strict primary programming (sort of a 3 laws of robotics from hell), that keep their hatred focused on targets of the C'tan's choosing.

Only the rumoured Elite of the lords have kept what little the C'tan let them have in the beginning.

I can't confirm this, but it sounds bout right.

As to the OP, You sort of have to stop yourself from thinking of the C'tan and the Necrons as seperate things. Space marines are an army, lead by primarchs, just as Necrons are an army, lead by C'tan.

Askil the Undecided
08-07-2010, 00:42
Being that it's been stated that the memory engrams degrade with each reconstruction maybe it just that some Lords are defeated less and thus due to fewer reconstructions retain more of their minds, also due to their successes they are higher in the C'Tan's esteem.

Just a thought.

ForgottenLore
08-07-2010, 01:11
Hating everything, even themselves, most are kept under a strict primary programming (sort of a 3 laws of robotics from hell), that keep their hatred focused on targets of the C'tan's choosing.


Yeah, that is how I have always viewed them.

Lord Damocles
08-07-2010, 09:22
Being that it's been stated that the memory engrams degrade with each reconstruction maybe it just that some Lords are defeated less and thus due to fewer reconstructions retain more of their minds, also due to their successes they are higher in the C'Tan's esteem.
That might be a part of it, but we're also told that, 'Of as high a rank in death as they were in life, the Necron Lords benefit from more sophisticated artificial bodies and stasis tombs than their vassals, allowing them to sleep through the millenia unplagued by the slow decay that has taken a terrible toll from others of their kind'. (Rulebook (5th ed.), pg.179).

Askil the Undecided
08-07-2010, 12:13
That might be a part of it, but we're also told that, 'Of as high a rank in death as they were in life, the Necron Lords benefit from more sophisticated artificial bodies and stasis tombs than their vassals, allowing them to sleep through the millenia unplagued by the slow decay that has taken a terrible toll from others of their kind'. (Rulebook (5th ed.), pg.179).

Which contradicts exactly none of what I said (hooray!) but adds.

"They aren't degraded by time like their warriors."

To the list of reasons they'd retain their minds and strengthens the case that more frequently reconstructed Lords would be closer to the "mindless automata with better programming" end of the scale.