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Ben@BadDice.co.uk
08-07-2010, 15:05
Gav Thorpe is on the latest episode of the Bad Dice Podcast. He chats freely about his time at games workshop and what goes on behind the scenes in games development. He also talks about his writing for the Black Library and his new Crown of Blood Series for Angry Robot. Over 2 hours with the Loremaster himself. The man who helped shape GW and Warhammer over the last 14 years

Full show notes and more details can be found at www.baddice.co.uk (http://www.baddice.co.uk)

Check out the episode on Direct Download (http://traffic.libsyn.com/baddice/baddice_episode_40.mp3) or Subscribe to us on iTunes (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewPodcast?id=304902993)

Nocculum
08-07-2010, 15:08
*Immediately drops everything to listen.*

This is awesome :D

Ben@BadDice.co.uk
08-07-2010, 15:26
I have been saying that everyday sine we recorded it!!

Oberon
08-07-2010, 15:29
It was great to listen to! Really nice insight and all, plus his accent is actually understandable to non-native speakers (unlike the regular hosts, sorry) :) Looking forward to next one.

CrystalSphere
08-07-2010, 15:40
Could someone make a short resume for us poor non-native speakers? I have a very hard time understanding it, i found the interview with alessio much easier to follow up to what they were saying.

willowdark
08-07-2010, 16:36
Half way through it and I'm really enjoying it. I know Gav takes a lot of slack from veteran gamers, and I've seen reasons why and understand, but the more I listen to him the more I appreciate him as a game designer.

As someone who's on record as a defender of 7th ed, I hear Gav echoing a lot of my points. That the powercreep was really about creating something exciting and offering the community the option to powergame. The idea that when DE and VC break the game, at least they do it in a characterful way.

I've always found my games with my DE against my friend's Daemons to be the most exciting games, and as the smoke of 7th ed clears I'd just like to say I'm grateful for it.

UberBeast
08-07-2010, 18:31
I still remember him throwing a fit at gamers for "ruining" his Storm of Chaos campaign by winning against chaos.

TheOneWithNoName
08-07-2010, 19:04
I still remember him throwing a fit at gamers for "ruining" his Storm of Chaos campaign by winning against chaos.

Care to explain this? I never heard this before.

Arkfatalis
08-07-2010, 19:15
I wonder what dwarf he will write about for the time of legends ? I reckon Snorri but it could be Bugman.

LeSquide
08-07-2010, 19:24
Care to explain this? I never heard this before.


I, too, would very much like to hear about this.

UberBeast
08-07-2010, 19:30
Care to explain this? I never heard this before.

It was after the Storm of Chaos campaign, he basically wrote this huge after-campaign report about how the players messed up the campaign because they were reporting their battles in the default area (boshenfels) instead of where they were actually fighting the battles. He was also ticked off that the orcs didn't join sides with chaos and was angry that they basically did everything they could the thwart the chaos attack on middenheim.

To sum it up, he basically posted a closing article about how "we" ruined his campaign.

Keep in mind Gav basically ignored the campaign results against chaos and pushed the battle through all of the order dominated zones to Middenheim anyway. Chaos basically won every battle zone despite contrary results except the last one which ended up being a rather unsatisfying and short victory for the empire.

Warp-Juicer
08-07-2010, 19:34
It was after the Storm of Chaos campaign, he basically wrote this huge after-campaign report about how the players messed up the campaign because they were reporting their battles in the default area (boshenfels) instead of where they were actually fighting the battles. He was also ticked off that the orcs didn't join sides with chaos and was angry that they basically did everything they could the thwart the chaos attack on middenheim.

To sum it up, he basically posted a closing article about how "we" ruined his campaign.

Keep in mind Gav basically ignored the campaign results against chaos and pushed the battle through all of the order dominated zones to Middenheim anyway. Chaos basically won every battle zone despite contrary results except the last one which ended up being a rather unsatisfying and short victory for the empire.

This explains a lot of things I've noticed about 7th edition....

Also: He wanted powergaming? I thought that was Alessio.

Sand
08-07-2010, 19:38
It was after the Storm of Chaos campaign, he basically wrote this huge after-campaign report about how the players messed up the campaign because they were reporting their battles in the default area (boshenfels) instead of where they were actually fighting the battles. He was also ticked off that the orcs didn't join sides with chaos and was angry that they basically did everything they could the thwart the chaos attack on middenheim.

To sum it up, he basically posted a closing article about how "we" ruined his campaign.

Keep in mind Gav basically ignored the campaign results against chaos and pushed the battle through all of the order dominated zones to Middenheim anyway. Chaos basically won every battle zone despite contrary results except the last one which ended up being a rather unsatisfying and short victory for the empire.
Where was this published?
No offense intended, but your version sounds pretty biased, so I'd like to read the thing just to get my own take on it.

Gorak
08-07-2010, 20:16
great interview!

selone
08-07-2010, 20:36
GavT is a great guy and I normally enjoy Bad dice but the interview was a little uninspiring, perhaps? Sorry if I'm seeming unfair but it was easy for my mind to wander during this.

UberBeast
09-07-2010, 04:00
Where was this published?
No offense intended, but your version sounds pretty biased, so I'd like to read the thing just to get my own take on it.

None taken. It was writen on the Storm of Chaos website. I don't know if you can still read any of the material, but I'm sure someone else who participated in the campaign remembers Gav's outburst. It's a thing of legend for those who took part in the storm of Chaos.

PS: I did a quick websearch and the website was nuked years ago it seems. However a google search reveals plenty of Gav Thorpe hate after the incident.


Warning the following thread is decidely anti-Gav Thorpe:

http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-191453.html

"Oskar Breytenbach05-15-2005, 03:17 PM
I could have forgiven the lame story line, or the man's inability to spell the names of his own characters consistently. But blaming the players for the campaign not working out as he had wanted (as he did in his storm of chaos conclusion article) was inexcusable."

szlachcic
09-07-2010, 05:21
None taken. It was writen on the Storm of Chaos website. I don't know if you can still read any of the material, but I'm sure someone else who participated in the campaign remembers Gav's outburst. It's a thing of legend for those who took part in the storm of Chaos.


I distinctly remember the horrible campaign closing piece he wrote, but I don't remember any sort of outburst, unless it was from the participants lol.

As to the original topic, I don't have time to listen to the interview now, but I will definitely be checking it out over the weekend. Thanks for posting it!

Dargon
09-07-2010, 07:41
To sum it up, he basically posted a closing article about how "we" ruined his campaign.
As I recall, the article was less an "outburst" and more of a 'behind the scenes' end of campaign summary and answer to a number of criticisms. Players were simply so emotional and up-in-arms at the time that they were deeply scrutinising every sentence for even the slightest hint of something to get angry about.:D

I don't recall Gav even saying that players "ruined" the campaign. Simply that they took it in directions that GW simply hadn't accounted for, and forced Gav as gamemaster to make adjustments to keep the campaign running it's intended direction (ie, artificially rigging locations to fall so that Chaos could progress) - after all, there wasn't a campaign map for pushing Chaos all the way back to the polar gates.;)

Storm of Chaos had many issues, but a fair share of them did come from the player base ourselves, wanting things out of the campaign that we were told were not in the cards from the very beginning. Players were told from the start that no armybooks would be invalidated, and no special characters from the Armybooks would be killed off - and still to this very day, there are players who can't understand why Archaon wasn't killed or spawned at the end.:rolleyes:

Just a thought...

Bloodknight
09-07-2010, 11:47
I liked the interview.

And I would never have attributed that voice to Gav as I know him from the pictures ;).

Dargon
09-07-2010, 14:11
And I would never have attributed that voice to Gav as I know him from the pictures ;).
I was thinking the same thing. I never expected Gav to have such a deep voice. It's like listening to a more enthusiastic version of Alan Rickman.:D

Just a thought...

UberBeast
09-07-2010, 14:28
As I recall, the article was less an "outburst" and more of a 'behind the scenes' end of campaign summary and answer to a number of criticisms. Players were simply so emotional and up-in-arms at the time that they were deeply scrutinising every sentence for even the slightest hint of something to get angry about.:D

I don't recall Gav even saying that players "ruined" the campaign. Simply that they took it in directions that GW simply hadn't accounted for, and forced Gav as gamemaster to make adjustments to keep the campaign running it's intended direction (ie, artificially rigging locations to fall so that Chaos could progress) - after all, there wasn't a campaign map for pushing Chaos all the way back to the polar gates.;)

Storm of Chaos had many issues, but a fair share of them did come from the player base ourselves, wanting things out of the campaign that we were told were not in the cards from the very beginning. Players were told from the start that no armybooks would be invalidated, and no special characters from the Armybooks would be killed off - and still to this very day, there are players who can't understand why Archaon wasn't killed or spawned at the end.:rolleyes:

Just a thought...

There were several specific criticisms Mr. Thorpe made of the player base. He stated that he was disappointed in the campaign and then he followed it by complaining about things the players did that contributed to the result of chaos losing. You'd have to have been pretty forgiving not to have understood the complaint in what was clearly a much edited rant by Mr. Thorpe.

That being said, there were a lot of angry players out there, and the fact that Mr. Thorpe seemed to ignore the battle results and ran the campaign unilaterally instead of by the results was the main contributing factor. I'm sure that the player's overly negative response may have contributed to Mr. Thorpe's griping conclusion, but in the end he very clearly made an effort to "blame" the players for an outcome to the campaign that he didn't like.

Anyway, my apologies as this is getting off topic.

mistercactus
09-07-2010, 15:55
Cheers for the announcement Ben. Personally, I've never had a problem understanding Northern accents, though I did study up in Manchester, which probably helps. I remember finding it funny that the store blackshirt also worked as a doorman during gigs at the student's union in order to regain some street cred.

Edit: East Midlands accent is pretty similar to a Northern one, to southern ears at least. Just wanted to get my geography right!

Ben@BadDice.co.uk
09-07-2010, 16:38
Nice edit, otherwise there would have been trouble!

Niibl
09-07-2010, 17:34
Nice to get some insight into the FAQ/errata/patch policy.
Quite reasonable.
I wonder if GW might turn from paper books to I-pad-style downloads in the future.
Then they could really start patching the system without the limitations caused by printed products.

willowdark
09-07-2010, 17:36
I suggested that a while back. Based on the user response, if GW was paying attention they won't think going that route would be a good idea/

Rockgut
09-07-2010, 18:06
Great stuff, enjoyble as always. Thanks. I am a Snake Eyes member and I live in the US. I have no trouble understanding the Ben's. Sure they have an accent, but so what, so do most people outside any local area.

big squig
10-07-2010, 04:13
I'm so glad he talked about people's perception about rules and fluff. About how too many special rules simply shoe-horns people into playing certain armies. With less rules, people are more free to be creative by using "count-as" rules.

ftayl5
10-07-2010, 04:59
I'd love to listen to that, but it would take me about a week to load it!
What's that gist of what he's saying? Though it goes for two hours so I guess there isn't a 'gist.'