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Lord of the End Times
08-07-2010, 16:46
My apologies if this has already been addressed elsewhere but here is the question:

The WoC army book says MoT gives a 6+ ward save that does stack with other ward save, while the new parry rule gives a 6+ that specifically does not stack with other ward saves. Which do people think applies, 5+ or 6+ final result?

Thanks.

Oberon
08-07-2010, 16:51
5+. The 6+ parry ward doesn't improve others, MoT improves it.
So your 6+ ward from MoT wouldn't be improved to 5+ by parrying, but MoT will improve your 6+ ward from parrying to 5+. Silly, isn't it?

BrotherNefarius
08-07-2010, 16:54
so i guess that means that if you get EoTG ward save (4++), and MoT (becomes 3++) then you dont anything from parry?

Nitael
08-07-2010, 16:56
Unless the Mark of Tzeentch will be changed by FAQ

Lord of the End Times
08-07-2010, 16:59
so i guess that means that if you get EoTG ward save (4++), and MoT (becomes 3++) then you dont anything from parry?

Hmm, ok.

Using Oberons logic that the MoT improves the ward save granted by parry, and given that the BRB states that you always just choose the best ward save available (and don't stack them), then that would make sense.

Oberon
08-07-2010, 17:08
so i guess that means that if you get EoTG ward save (4++), and MoT (becomes 3++) then you dont anything from parry?

Correct, as parry doesn't improve anything and you already have a better ward for MoT to improve.

Mr_Rose
08-07-2010, 17:14
Unless the Mark of Tzeentch will be changed by FAQ
Why would it be? It's perfectly clear exactly what it does, with no ambiguity at all, unless you believe the following to be literally true:


The WoC army book says MoT gives a 6+ ward save that does stack with other ward save [...]Which it isn't; the WoC book does not say that at all.

It says that the Mark of Tzeentch improves any existing ward save by +1 or, if the model has no other ward save, gives it a 6+ ward instead.

The Mark of Tzeentch is not a ward save that stacks; it's a special rule that improves ward saves. This whole "stackable ward save" business is nonsense that doesn't fit with any of the rules, but which serves as a useful shorthand for explaining the observable effect of the rule as written. It should not, however, be confused with the actual rule.

untimention
08-07-2010, 17:56
5+ all the way which is tasty... lots of people will be getting the paint out.

It also brings in line MOT as a great option like the other two already are.

Marks now will really depend on who your facing.

do you need saves, do you need attacks or do you need the middle grounds of shield and MON

NixonAsADaemonPrince
08-07-2010, 18:24
5+ all the way which is tasty... lots of people will be getting the paint out.

It also brings in line MOT as a great option like the other two already are.

Marks now will really depend on who your facing.

do you need saves, do you need attacks or do you need the middle grounds of shield and MON

The other two? Lol I know slaanesh isn't normally a good choice but it can be handy on some things (like small units of marauders and giants). Though I do like the new parry/tzeentch unit, I'm just finishing a 20 man unit of them to act as a big road block.

Nixon

Jericho
08-07-2010, 20:00
5+ all the way which is tasty... lots of people will be getting the paint out.Not me, they're already blue :)

mightyzombie
08-07-2010, 22:18
The Mark of Tzeentch is not a ward save that stacks; it's a special rule that improves ward saves. This whole "stackable ward save" business is nonsense that doesn't fit with any of the rules, but which serves as a useful shorthand for explaining the observable effect of the rule as written. It should not, however, be confused with the actual rule.

QFT. Too many people like to treat the shorthand being used for the observable effects of rules, as the actual rules themselves, and then go off and attempt to interpret the effects of OTHER rules based on them.

Avian
08-07-2010, 22:21
... the new parry rule gives a 6+ that specifically does not stack with other ward saves.
Ward saves don't stack to begin with. :p

Mr_Rose
08-07-2010, 22:29
QToo many people like to treat the shorthand being used for the observable effects of rules, as the actual rules themselves, and then go off and attempt to interpret the effects of OTHER rules based on them.
And, even worse, there are people whose entire "knowledge" of the rules is a collection of these little nonsensical anecdotes. And most of them actually do own a rulebook too; they just never bother to read it...