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GrimmHammer
08-07-2010, 17:19
is this spell allowed to be cast in close combat?

for example the caster is in the front rank of a unit and casts it forward into the unit the caster is engaged against.

My poor ogres.

Lord Zarkov
08-07-2010, 18:38
"A magical vortex has no target"
p31
the only general restriction wrt combat is that "wizards cannot target spells at units engaged in close combat"
therefore you can just place the purple sun template and if it hits a unit in combat then oh well.

Capardio
08-07-2010, 19:02
That spell is horribly powerful by the way.
Imagine a huge unit of saurus warriors, 10 wide 4 ranks, with the enemy wizard standing at their flank.
:p

theorox
08-07-2010, 19:25
DEAD! :D

Well don't let him cast it. Evar! D:

Theo

Capardio
08-07-2010, 19:26
Just use all your powerdice and youll probably get total power, 40 dead saurus is worth more then the miscast :p

N810
08-07-2010, 19:34
Definately worth saving a scroll for

stainawarjar
08-07-2010, 19:45
Definately worth saving a scroll for

the scroll would be what you say in 8th ;)

N810
08-07-2010, 19:51
Well there are half a dozen different types of scrolls now...

Jericho
08-07-2010, 20:09
... Unless the guy rolls 66 then it doesn't matter what defense you have :p

Capardio
08-07-2010, 20:20
Thats what i mean :p

jthdotcom
08-07-2010, 20:28
Well there are half a dozen different types of scrolls now...

There is still only one scroll that dispels the spell...

Saldiven
08-07-2010, 20:34
... Unless the guy rolls 66 then it doesn't matter what defense you have :p

Unfortunately, if you double six the Purple Sun, the marker starts centered on your caster and moves in a random direction, if I remember correctly. Double sixing the Sun can wreck the caster's army.

Balerion
08-07-2010, 20:52
Unfortunately, if you double six the Purple Sun, the marker starts centered on your caster and moves in a random direction, if I remember correctly. Double sixing the Sun can wreck the caster's army.
No, you roll an artillery dice, and a misfire result places the template on your caster. Misfire =/= miscast.

soots
09-07-2010, 00:51
No, you roll an artillery dice, and a misfire result places the template on your caster. Misfire =/= miscast.

so you just cast it next to the unit and it doesnt matter what you roll on the artillery dice lol.

This spell is the Lizardmen silver bullet.

ooglatjama
09-07-2010, 01:26
That stupid spell melted my dwarf lord and all but 7 hammerers in a unit. The opponent rolled 8 dice and double 6ed it. No way to stop it.

soots
09-07-2010, 01:30
You can start by telling him max 6 dice for any spell

But yeah, it melts faces

SilasOfTheLambs
09-07-2010, 02:02
Most scrolls other than the dispel scroll now work whether the spell was cast or not. I think the tactica for spells has now become something like "you can have that first one, and then you are a froggy" or "take a pile of hits" or some other negative effect. It makes scrolls much more difficult to use. However, I'll definitely be taking the dispel scroll, plus at least one of the other ones.

Skyth
09-07-2010, 02:24
You cannot place templates so that they affect a unit in combat unless a spell specifically allows it to be placed in combat.

KUMA
09-07-2010, 02:34
well, technically, you placed the template next to your caster, it was the artillery dice that made it move into combat!!

Skyth
09-07-2010, 02:37
When you initially place it, it will touch a unit in close combat, thus cannot be placed there...Barring a specific rule in the spell.

Ramius4
09-07-2010, 02:53
That spell is horribly powerful by the way.
Imagine a huge unit of saurus warriors, 10 wide 4 ranks, with the enemy wizard standing at their flank.
:p

Yeah, because Saurus run in 40 man units so often...:rolleyes: You're lucky to see half that hit the table, and never 10 wide.

GodlessM
09-07-2010, 02:53
Most scrolls other than the dispel scroll now work whether the spell was cast or not. I think the tactica for spells has now become something like "you can have that first one, and then you are a froggy" or "take a pile of hits" or some other negative effect. It makes scrolls much more difficult to use. However, I'll definitely be taking the dispel scroll, plus at least one of the other ones.

Actually they can't since each one says it can be used when an enemy spell is cast instead of dispelling.

soots
09-07-2010, 03:12
Yeah, because Saurus run in 40 man units so often...:rolleyes: You're lucky to see half that hit the table, and never 10 wide.

Whilst I agree with the saurus thing, i still think this spell is an "I Win button"

mightyzombie
09-07-2010, 05:23
Yeah, because Saurus run in 40 man units so often...:rolleyes: You're lucky to see half that hit the table, and never 10 wide.

That might change if they want to be even more powerful by benefiting from the horde formation. Expensive, but man that's a lot of attacks.

Angelust
09-07-2010, 09:50
Additional Question: Since this template begins in base contact with the wizard, will it always affect him since it's technically touching him?

If so, does that mean the wizard will run the risk of dying EVERY time he casts the spell?

Edit: Also, isn't the prohibition on placing the template on a unit in combat only in the direct damage spell category?

dooombot
10-07-2010, 02:40
Heres a question: Slann in a unit of Temple Guard. Casts Purple Sun. You place the template in his front arc, roll dice to move it, anything it touches is hit. Does the front rank of Temple Guard count as being hit by the Purple Sun?

Kalandros
10-07-2010, 03:46
Obviously, I don't even see why you need to ask the question, the template touches the Temple guards.. thus...

dooombot
10-07-2010, 05:29
Obviously, I don't even see why you need to ask the question, the template touches the Temple guards.. thus...

Well, not so obvious to my friend, who made a crazy Death Slann just so he could use that spell. We laughed at his bout of nerd-rage. Figured I'd ask the o so wise Warseers, just to be sure.

Kalandros
10-07-2010, 07:13
It'd be a funnier nerd rage if there was a rule that forbids the player to use spells and attacks in a way that hits your own models..... (:

"Oh well, your slann can't use Purple sun in his bunker!"

stiggie
10-07-2010, 07:33
It'd be a funnier nerd rage if there was a rule that forbids the player to use spells and attacks in a way that hits your own models..... (:


you mean like whip of subversion on a doombull? :P

Yrrdead
10-07-2010, 08:13
Heres a question: Slann in a unit of Temple Guard. Casts Purple Sun. You place the template in his front arc, roll dice to move it, anything it touches is hit. Does the front rank of Temple Guard count as being hit by the Purple Sun?

I would say yes. This came up in 7th(Burning Head) and I haven't seen any rule(in 8th) or FAQ(8th) that would make me say that they wouldn't test.

xv8
10-07-2010, 10:13
i used the spell yesterday and the way it works is you cast put down the template then roll artilery and move the template along the line anything under the template from start to end of its movement is hit and must take a i test if your opponent puts his army in a line and your lucky you can kill half a lizardmen army with this spell

Mr_Rose
10-07-2010, 12:06
That stupid spell melted my dwarf lord and all but 7 hammerers in a unit. The opponent rolled 8 dice and double 6ed it. No way to stop it.
Mm hmm; next time, tell your opponent to stop cheating. Not even Dragon Mages can go over six dice for a spell now.

SideshowLucifer
10-07-2010, 13:54
This spell was "the" spell everyone went for in 5th edition as well. At least now you get an IN roll to avoid death.

xv8
10-07-2010, 17:09
my friends a lizard man player and played a game and i used teclis in our game not knowing the purple suns exact power i iresitable forced it and he said he will never play me again cause a staff member had to but in and said that i was wrong with the way it worked and that it wiped out half his army

Formosa
10-07-2010, 17:34
eh? what was that in english XV8?

theorox
10-07-2010, 17:47
Well I'm fairly sure that the template starts hurting when it has done it's initial move, the artillery dice one.

Theo

xv8
10-07-2010, 18:24
thats what i thought to theo but the staff guy kept saying that we were wrong

theorox
10-07-2010, 18:38
thats what i thought to theo but the staff guy kept saying that we were wrong

Uh. Staff guy. Thread closed! :D

Theo

Lord Zarkov
10-07-2010, 19:48
Mm hmm; next time, tell your opponent to stop cheating. Not even Dragon Mages can go over six dice for a spell now.
Unless he was a Dark Elf (assuming they can take Death?), they can still use as many dice as they want

Onidan
10-07-2010, 19:52
TBH, Im more concerned for my Dwarves than for my Lizardmen.

My Lizardmen have a Slann and the power to ignore any 6 the enemy wizard rolls. Without the 6 and thus IF it can be stopped by a scroll or simply the DD.

My Dwarves have truly no way of countering it...

madden
10-07-2010, 20:02
Try the ogres there worse than dwarfs as the army will be small and fairly bunched as they need the supporting attacks more this spell is death incarnate to ogres.

stiggie
10-07-2010, 20:09
TBH, Im more concerned for my Dwarves than for my Lizardmen.

My Lizardmen have a Slann and the power to ignore any 6 the enemy wizard rolls. Without the 6 and thus IF it can be stopped by a scroll or simply the DD.

My Dwarves have truly no way of countering it...

i saw a dwarf v vampire counts game today and dwarfen anti-magic isnt that bad? i know you dont get any channelling but you always get +2 to dispel. the guy held his own pretty well.. better than i thought he would

RanaldLoec
10-07-2010, 20:23
i saw a dwarf v vampire counts game today and dwarfen anti-magic isnt that bad? i know you dont get any channelling but you always get +2 to dispel. the guy held his own pretty well.. better than i thought he would

Dwarfs can't channel because they runesmiths add a dispel dice to the dispel pool and rune lords add 2.

This is the same for empire warrior priests, and arch lectors they don't channel they just add dice to the dispel pool.

Romulus68
21-07-2010, 14:41
Does the spell effect everyone it passes over or just where it stops?

IE....I fly to the side of your battle line. I cast it successfully with no Dispel on a large template. I roll a 10 on artillery dice. It moves 30 inches down your line hitting/passing over EVERY unit you have.

Does it count as hitting EVERY unit or just where it stopped at the end of 30 inches?

SideshowLucifer
21-07-2010, 14:46
Yep.
It hits everything in it's path.

Romulus68
21-07-2010, 15:32
Yep.
It hits everything in it's path.

As mentioned above......Then the Wizard would hit themselves and a parent unit if inside the unit? Would they not?

SideshowLucifer
22-07-2010, 04:27
By RAW yes, however, I don't believe the intent was for it to hit the caster, but who knows.

kyuzo
22-07-2010, 04:39
By RAW yes, however, I don't believe the intent was for it to hit the caster, but who knows.

What makes you say you place the template over the caster? It just says place the template with no further restrictions. Wouldnt RAW mean you could place it anywhere on the board?

some_scrub
22-07-2010, 05:11
What makes you say you place the template over the caster? It just says place the template with no further restrictions. Wouldnt RAW mean you could place it anywhere on the board?

The rules for Magical Vortex at the beginning of the Magic section describing the different sorts of spells that you place the template touching the wizard and in his front arc.

the Goat
22-07-2010, 11:44
You place the template on the table with the edge contacting the wizard's base. In order to be hit by the template it must overlap a model's base. So no the wizard is not automatically hit.

Ultimate Life Form
22-07-2010, 11:46
My rules say 'touch'.

Greyfire
22-07-2010, 13:35
My rules say 'touch'.
Mine, too. But it also says the same thing for the flame template used by things that breath fire (as mentioned elsewhere). ;)

RAW really lets us down here. I thought GW had learned their lessons in previous editions when I realized they had done a better job of making the rules clear. Guess I was mistaken. They still have a ways to go. Wouldn't take much to add "caster/dragon will not be affected" and add to the LM FAQ "note that with TG and Slann the template is placed adjacent to the TG unit instead, that will likewise not be affected." A shame that's not the rule and I'm gonna keep blowing up my TG. :(

It's just that powerful a spell and with great power comes great responsi..., er, nevermind. I think it comes with lots of dead TG. (And remember - that's a big NOT up there before anyone thinks that is the rule when they read this post in six months.)

I'm hoping there's another FAQ release this weekend that will clear up for us. They are really making me happy with being so responsive to all of us now. :)

PS: This spell also took out most of my TG and the Slann himself after he cast it and it came back to him in the following turn. This spell can work for both sides.

mitsukai
22-07-2010, 14:09
Guys just wanted to ask this instead of starting a new thread for the same subject last night I cast Purple sun of xereus, But then a argument started that the only models having to take the I test are the models the template "Touchs" at the end of resolution rather than the models and units passed over during resolution

I.E if It moves 24" every model in its path has to take the test not just the few it touchs at end.

Am I right in saying all must take test rather than those where the template ends up??

Columind
22-07-2010, 14:11
By this reasoning the skaven template spells also hit the Grey Seer/Plague Priest and basically any breath weapon also hits the monster/character who's using it. Are we creating a new trend here?

Greyfire
22-07-2010, 14:58
Am I right in saying all must take test rather than those where the template ends up??
You are right. Lots of models die when this spell goes off, at least when you roll high enough for the movement range.

Blitz001
22-07-2010, 15:45
That stupid spell melted my dwarf lord and all but 7 hammerers in a unit. The opponent rolled 8 dice and double 6ed it. No way to stop it.

well he cheated you cause you can only use 6 dice to cast it.

Canucksfan1
22-07-2010, 15:46
Another question for Purple Sun from a game last night

My opponnent was lined up like so


XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX
XXXXXXX XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX O
XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX

My wizard is O, I cast Purple Sun, it went 18" and ended its move in the middle of the second unit. Now what happens, the spells says to place the template 1" out of the unit in the same direction, well this will take it directly into the next unit and if you do it again by placing it next to that unit it will hit the 4th unit. My friend was arguing that no it does not do that instead it just ends up on the flank of the 4th unit and misses units 3 and 4 as nothing in the spell says it continues to do this the spell just says place next to unit after it moves. My friend and I argued for 5 minutes on this and ended it with a $20 bet as I was aruing that the spell is still in effect and says any model touched takes a I test. He believes that that is only the case when the spell moves and it did move, now it has to find a place naxt to a unit. But if that was the case then what the spell moves and then reappears in this case another 16" further than it originally moved. I also tried to argue that it does move as it hits the next unit as I tried to place next to the second unit the template does damage and continues to move as it is still in effect. I know it is in effect because what happens if a unit flees and ends its movement on purple sun, they would take damage and the template would be placed next to the unit afterwards in the same direction it was moving.

Some clarity or consensus would help.

stripsteak
22-07-2010, 16:01
well he cheated you cause you can only use 6 dice to cast it.

could have been a dark elf.

Greyfire
22-07-2010, 16:54
How the Sun moves when it ends it's move in a unit is already being discussed over in
Vortex: misinterpretation, error, or balance? (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268006)

Short version: I doubt you'll see any consensus on this until it's FAQ'ed.

Dokushin
23-07-2010, 19:21
FAQ live.

Sun continues to "bounce" until it's not touching a unit. It does NOT hit any of the models it passes over in this fashion. You CAN initially position the vortex so that it affects enemy models.