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The Inevitable One
08-07-2010, 20:57
While I reading another thread relating to Chaos, I was wondering why Malal or Malice is not featured as a major power. He/she is the very definition of Chaos.

I have read that the "nature of Malal's powers is parasitic" and that "as the Renegade God grows in power when the other Chaos Powers do". I find it hard to think that he is a minor Chaos God.

Then there is the copyright issues. The developer decided to take his buisness and the name, Malal, elsewere. This does not stop Games Workshop from having a fifth Chaos God, it is just that they can't use the name Malal. So Games Workshop started to introduce Malice as the new Renegade Chaos God. Not much has been put in though except two things:


Sons of Malice (A chapter from a loyalist Legion that turned to Chaos)


Dreadaxe (a weapon described as preferring to kill other daemonic entities)


So my question is, are we going to see more of Malice and if so will he become a major power like the other four? Also do you think Malice is going to have a unique name such as the others?

Zothos
08-07-2010, 21:16
Malal does not exist in the 40k universe.

4 Chaos gods is quite enough. The idea of a god who is ultimately self defeating annoys me. My ex wife behaved that way. Perhaps ill start the "Sons of Katherine" chapter...

I do not think we will see anymore Chaos Gods...Just an opinion.

tuesday_the_pixie
08-07-2010, 22:20
Wow, Zothos!

No offense but thats one of the funniest things I've ever read on Warseer!

Gimp
08-07-2010, 22:39
Malal does not exist in the 40k universe.

4 Chaos gods is quite enough. The idea of a god who is ultimately self defeating annoys me. My ex wife behaved that way. Perhaps ill start the "Sons of Katherine" chapter...

I do not think we will see anymore Chaos Gods...Just an opinion.

That made me smile :D

Mannimarco
08-07-2010, 22:41
Malice was GW throwing the ancients a bone after we lost Malal.

A little off topic but theres considerably more chaos gods than the big 4. We also have Nechol and Zuvvisin (pretty sure thats the wrong spelling)

Gdolkin
08-07-2010, 23:04
..I hear that buddy :cries::mad::wtf:

[QUOTE=Mannimarco;4802129]Malice was GW throwing the ancients a bone after we lost Malal.

A little off topic but theres considerably more chaos gods than the big 4. We also have Nechol and Zuvvisin (pretty sure thats the wrong spelling)
Necoho and Zuvassin were an earlier attempt by GW to rework the concept of Malal by splitting him into two minor Gods in WHFRP, IIRC.. Zuvassin was the Great Undoer, who loves to spoil plans, **** in the punch and undermine all achievements of his fellow Chaos Gods, mortals and himself. Necoho was the Great Unbeliever, the god of atheists, completely against faith and worship of anything, including himself. Both very self-defeating.
I love the idea of Malice/Malal.. I feel that the Ruinous Powers are an awesome philosophical/psychological comment on the human condition, our being slaves to and obsessive to extremes over our rage, pleasure, hope and despair.. The whole point of the Gods is that they are our own tendencies to spiral out of control and disappear up our own ego's, decieive ourselves, and become obsessive and extreme.. I think the God of absolutely willful self-hate and negative, self-destructive urges fits right in:skull:

Karl MkVI
08-07-2010, 23:10
Malal was erased from the background because of licensing issues.

It's an annoying, horrible and truly boring answer, but I'm afraid that is the long and the short of it :cries:

madprophet
09-07-2010, 03:15
Karl is right

BUT GW's licensing issues mean squats to me - I built an entire CSM legion based on Is'Malal for Malal is the One True Chaos god and Belkor is his prophet. :)

AndrewGPaul
09-07-2010, 07:39
Malal was erased from the background because of licensing issues.

It's an annoying, horrible and truly boring answer, but I'm afraid that is the long and the short of it :cries:


Back when GW was basically six blokes in a lockup in Nottingham, one of the writers of WFRP 1st edition somehow managed to keep ownership of the particular bits of background that he personally invented, those being Malal and the Fimir. When he left, GW couldn't use them without permission. Either they weren't granted permission, or they figured the Fimir and Malal were incidental to the setting and didn't bother asking.

Hunger
09-07-2010, 08:25
The idea of a god who is ultimately self defeating annoys me. My ex wife behaved that way. Perhaps ill start the "Sons of Katherine" chapter...

Zothos - utterly cracked me up. I literally choked on my coffee after I read this.

piddlinggaley
09-07-2010, 10:19
Is there any good fan fiction on Malal

Karl MkVI
09-07-2010, 10:31
Is there any good fan fiction on Malal

I would imagine so, but I wouldn't know who to ask. I would suggest you have a scout on google; I've seen plenty of info on Malal circling the net. however, even Lexicanum, the 'unofficial' encyclopedia, doesn't contain any info on Malal. even wikipedia only has this:


"Malal - a renegade Chaos God, representing the paradox of Chaos fighting against itself. He is no longer mentioned in current background material due to a copyright issue row between Games Workshop and the artist who scripted and drew the comic (entitled "Kaleb Daark") where Malal was featured...the only RPG material featuring Malal was later reprinted with its name switched to "Zuvassin" instead."

which, annoyingly enough, is basically what has already been said on this thread...




4 Chaos gods is quite enough. The idea of a god who is ultimately self defeating annoys me. My ex wife behaved that way. Perhaps ill start the "Sons of Katherine" chapter...



your pain = felt. also; very amusing, I must confess. :D


Back when GW was basically six blokes in a lockup in Nottingham, one of the writers of WFRP 1st edition somehow managed to keep ownership of the particular bits of background that he personally invented, those being Malal and the Fimir. When he left, GW couldn't use them without permission. Either they weren't granted permission, or they figured the Fimir and Malal were incidental to the setting and didn't bother asking.

ok, so maybe this is the long of it. my bit was just 'the short' :D

Idaan
09-07-2010, 10:56
Hasn't the Chaos God Malice (which is Malal just under a different name) in one or another SM short stories anthology? "Heroes of the Space Marines" I think, the story about Sons of Malice.

Hellebore
09-07-2010, 11:18
I for one hope it isn't called Malice. Since when were chaos gods named after the emotion/feeling they were formed by?

The Sons of Annoyance, Chaos god of Frustration...

I could see a force referring to themselves as the 'Sons of Rage' referring to Khorne, without 'Rage' literally being their god's name...

Hellebore

reds8n
09-07-2010, 11:36
Hasn't the Chaos God Malice (which is Malal just under a different name) in one or another SM short stories anthology? "Heroes of the Space Marines" I think, the story about Sons of Malice.

Sort of...

The entity "Malice" is summoned into the material universe at the end of the story, I'd describe him more as a powerful Demon prince or entity rather than an actual god. Currently of course... :eek:

Karl MkVI
09-07-2010, 20:30
@reds8n: I love how your spoiler warning reveals the "EEK!" face, but nothing more... :D

it looks like Pacman drowning...

ctsteel
09-07-2010, 22:24
In the tradition of other notable losses, perhaps Malal was eaten by the Tyranid Hive Mind.

Gdolkin
10-07-2010, 01:18
I for one hope it isn't called Malice. Since when were chaos gods named after the emotion/feeling they were formed by?

The Sons of Annoyance, Chaos god of Frustration...

I could see a force referring to themselves as the 'Sons of Rage' referring to Khorne, without 'Rage' literally being their god's name...

Hellebore
Didn't MvS write something marvellous about the Dark Tongue and how 'Khorne'<--'Kharneth'<--'Qar'neth'<--'Rage Lord'..? In a sense, the word 'Khorne' means 'rage' in a way no other word ever could..
But yeah, Malal was a better name than Malice.

Kage2020
10-07-2010, 16:55
Go the dark Twin... :D

:shifty:

Kage

metal bawks
11-07-2010, 14:50
@OP: While we may indeed be seeing more of Malice, it's extremely unlikely he'll be elevated to major power status. For one thing, it would require a significant number of new models (you'd need at least a few characters and daemons).

Malal, on the other hand, is completely out of the question, since GW no longer owns the IP.

Btw, Necoho and Zuvassin are still very much part of the background - they're in WFRP's Tome of Salvation.

TheDarkDaff
16-07-2010, 07:13
There was a throw back to Malal in the Fantasy range with the Daemon Prince Be'lakor the Dark Master as a homage to Kaleb Daarke.

malika
20-12-2010, 00:15
Malice was GW throwing the ancients a bone after we lost Malal.

A little off topic but theres considerably more chaos gods than the big 4. We also have Nechol and Zuvvisin (pretty sure thats the wrong spelling)

I quite like the idea of there being more than four Chaos Gods. The Codex Daemons (horrible book by the way!) was quite disappointing in hinting that there are only four Gods. But what if there are more, but that the four that we know and love are the dominant ones because the emotions they are based on are dominant? Humans becoming the dominant species of the galaxy might have caused Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch to grow stronger. The Eldar created Slaanesh, but perhaps humanity's emotions strengthen it to such an extent that it is one of the Big Four. Maybe in the past other species had different kinds of emotions, feeding them to different Warp entities, hence different Gods.

Food for thought...

The idea of Malal is just too cool not to include. It might be very fitting that an entity such as Malal might be growing in power in the later years of the 40k universe. Dissatisfaction with the "conventional" Chaos powers, dissatisfaction with the Imperium, general dissatisfaction with the universe...feed Malal!

ashendant
20-12-2010, 02:37
Btw, Necoho and Zuvassin are still very much part of the background - they're in WFRP's Tome of Salvation.
I actually like Necoho(stupid name trough), of course a god of atheists where gods powers can be clearly seen is kinda dumb, so i reinterpreted him into my own idea(fanfiction), has a god of rationalization and logic, that promotes not worshipping, but studying chaos gods and the warp as natural forces to be used like any other natural force, his emotion is pride because when intellectual debates happens it's over the pride of their own intellect.

Also the four knight of the atheist apocalypse if anybody saw that webcomic :P

Mannimarco
20-12-2010, 03:15
There is/was considerably more Gods/warp entities back in the good ol' days.

Ive posted a couple of sites telling of them over in the fantasy background section and have started work on a Zhedun cult.

Scalebug
21-12-2010, 16:48
And as always, it must be said; Malal was never the 5th Chaos God, as Slaanesh wasn't around in the background when he was...

And he was not picked up when Chaos (and the Warhammer universe in general) got more "defined", because a god dedicated to fighting the others was kind of odd when it became ingrained in the background that the chaos gods were constantly fighting each other anyway...

SeaSwift
21-12-2010, 20:19
4 Chaos gods is quite enough. The idea of a god who is ultimately self defeating annoys me. My ex wife behaved that way. Perhaps ill start the "Sons of Katherine" chapter...

I gave out a very guilty laugh there.

By the way, all the Chaos Gods are ultimately self defeating (IIRC) - but don't let that spoil your perception of marriage :p

Idaan
21-12-2010, 20:56
I quite like the idea of there being more than four Chaos Gods. The Codex Daemons (horrible book by the way!) was quite disappointing in hinting that there are only four Gods. But what if there are more, but that the four that we know and love are the dominant ones because the emotions they are based on are dominant? Humans becoming the dominant species of the galaxy might have caused Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch to grow stronger. The Eldar created Slaanesh, but perhaps humanity's emotions strengthen it to such an extent that it is one of the Big Four. Maybe in the past other species had different kinds of emotions, feeding them to different Warp entities, hence different Gods.

Food for thought...

The idea of Malal is just too cool not to include. It might be very fitting that an entity such as Malal might be growing in power in the later years of the 40k universe. Dissatisfaction with the "conventional" Chaos powers, dissatisfaction with the Imperium, general dissatisfaction with the universe...feed Malal!
I'd say that the Big Four already represent the whole spectrum of possible emotions. There is Khorne - choleric, Tzeentch - sanguine, Nurgle - phlegmatic and Slaanesh - melancholic (of course, this is not a perfect fit, what with the humours' traits varying over the ages and GW probably not even knowing about them).

But that is not to say that there aren't other Chaos Gods than the Big Four, only that they are the most basic. Consider your new LED TV - it has only red, green and blue projectors, but through mixing and adjusting contrast and saturation, it can produce all the wonderful colours your eye can perceive. As per Gav Thorpe's "circles within circles" theory, there is some overlap between the Chaos Gods along the edges, where their portfolios mix and a new, distinct entity appears. So in the overlap between Nurgle and Tzeentch we have WFB's Horned Rat - pestilent and plotting. Where Tzeentch and Khorne meet, we have (again from WFB) Hashut - warlike and industrious. Depending on what you interpret them to be, you could count the Dark Muses as well - the poisoner Shaimesh as Tzeentch + Khorne, the Wych idol Hekatii as Slaanesh + Khorne. Etc, etc.

Now Malal is again, a special case - his potential would rest at the exact point of overlap between the Four - an eye of the storm so to say. Their mutual and opposing hatreds would amplify each other and drown everything else out, leaving only an overwhelming desire of everything to destroy everything else.

On a related note, Dark Heresy provides quite a few lesser Chaos powers, though it's debatable whether they're gods or very powerful daemons. The Seven Devils of Dread Calyx are apparently strongly tied to the Calixis Sector fate:

-Balphomael (very powerful undivided entity, to whom a pretty basic "mortal power and knowledge" cult is dedicated)
- The Dweller in the Depths (not much detail)
- The Crowfather (appears in one of the adventures, so won't spoil it)
- The King in Rags and Tatters (the only one that is described in any details, he is an avatar of madness and a head of Menagerie, cult who goes around disguised as a sideshow that drives people insane)
- The Eater of the Dead (not much detail)
- The Empty Hunger (not much detail)
- The Night Traveller (herald of the End of Days, returns from where nobody has returned - on this one there is too much information, often contradictory. Also, he's probably tied to the DH metaplot, so no spoilers).