PDA

View Full Version : Why is Abaddon not mutated?



DarthMcBob
09-07-2010, 03:19
I've just been looking at my model of Abaddon the Despoiler and I wondered "Why is he still so human?". He's been living in the Warp for nearly 10,000 years now. The Chaos Gods give out mutations as gifts and rewards. He certainly has their great respect, as seen in Storm of Iron, where he was able to negotiate on the Chaos Gods' behalf to a warlord of the Iron Warriors for daemonhood. The fact that he could personally guarantee daemonhood to a warlord if he suceeded and spwandom if he failed and then have the Chaos Gods go through with it by turning the warlord into a Daemon Prince implies a great deal of esteem for Abaddon by the Chaos Gods. Since they reward devotion with mutations, why is he still so human?

Son of Sanguinius
09-07-2010, 03:50
Two reasons, as far as I know. First, it would be difficult for him (or possibly impossible) to lead an incursion to Terra (his ultimate goal) as a demon. One has trouble maintaining a physical form that far from a ready source of warp-energy. Second, it seems to be a matter of pride- either he views himself as unworthy until he claims the ultimate prize (Terra) or he has struck some type of deal with the gods to grant him demonhood once he claims victory.

DarthMcBob
09-07-2010, 04:03
Two reasons, as far as I know. First, it would be difficult for him (or possibly impossible) to lead an incursion to Terra (his ultimate goal) as a demon. One has trouble maintaining a physical form that far from a ready source of warp-energy. Second, it seems to be a matter of pride- either he views himself as unworthy until he claims the ultimate prize (Terra) or he has struck some type of deal with the gods to grant him demonhood once he claims victory.

I'm sorry if it was unclear, but I'm not talking about daemonhood. I know why he's no a daemon. I'm talking about the regular mutations a Chaos Lord (or really anyone with enough exposure to the Warp) can expect to accumulate. You know, a tentacle for your arm, eyeballs in the back of your head, a second face in your stomach, that kinda thing.

Son of Sanguinius
09-07-2010, 04:23
Sorry about that. Didn't read carefully enough. I would imagine that mutations, to a large part, have to do with your strength of will. With enough strength of will, I bet you can alter mutations or even stop them entirely. I also bet that for a great many Chaos warriors, not having a tentacle is a sign of the gods' favor as well.

Personally, I don't see Abaddon as being a slave to chaos. I don't see him as particularly religious (though he knows damn well when and how to exploit such leanings), and I think he sees Chaos as a means to an end. Above all else, he wants to kill the Emperor. He wants to kill the Emperor and feed him to the gods of chaos to satisfy his own thirst for vengeance. Getting wrapped up in devotion and "gifts" would end up making Abaddon just another dark apostle, and frankly, I see that as why Abaddon is the new Warmaster. By resisting the lure of each god, by devoting himself to his chosen task, and by his enormous strength of will, Abaddon has proven himself worthy to bear the Mark of the Pantheon and worthy of the respect of his fellow champions.

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-07-2010, 04:33
Because it doesn't suit the character GW wants him to be to be mutated. He is the space marine warlord fighting the Horus Heresy over and over again; trying to use chaos to further his own goals but ultimately rejecting it as his master. Having him mutate detracts from that and so he doesn't.

DarthMcBob
09-07-2010, 05:15
Sorry about that. Didn't read carefully enough. I would imagine that mutations, to a large part, have to do with your strength of will. With enough strength of will, I bet you can alter mutations or even stop them entirely. I also bet that for a great many Chaos warriors, not having a tentacle is a sign of the gods' favor as well.

Personally, I don't see Abaddon as being a slave to chaos. I don't see him as particularly religious (though he knows damn well when and how to exploit such leanings), and I think he sees Chaos as a means to an end. Above all else, he wants to kill the Emperor. He wants to kill the Emperor and feed him to the gods of chaos to satisfy his own thirst for vengeance. Getting wrapped up in devotion and "gifts" would end up making Abaddon just another dark apostle, and frankly, I see that as why Abaddon is the new Warmaster. By resisting the lure of each god, by devoting himself to his chosen task, and by his enormous strength of will, Abaddon has proven himself worthy to bear the Mark of the Pantheon and worthy of the respect of his fellow champions.

I don't know, mutations happen to unwilling victims quite regularly, so how would he be different?

It seems GW agrees with you there. Quoth the Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Mark of Chaos Ascendant: Abaddon has attained the favor of each of the Chaos powers in turn, and has proved the equal of his mentor Horus in that he resisted becoming the pawn of any individual patron

TheOverlord
09-07-2010, 05:37
It might all be internal though, and less physical forms of mutations. He probably has a terrifying aura about him that's not all just force of personality, and being near him will probably make people want to hurl unbidden. He probably even bleeds black lava, that would be pretty cool.

Spare Change
09-07-2010, 06:00
He probably even bleeds black lava, that would be pretty cool.

I laughed at this. :)

Son of Sanguinius
09-07-2010, 06:15
He probably even bleeds black lava, that would be pretty cool.

This is why I love being a nerd and talking to nerds. Where else am I going to see/hear this?

IvanTih
09-07-2010, 09:14
Because he wants to worshiped because of his strength and he doesn't want to become a daemon prince since this would mostly limit him to the Eye of Terror which is last thing he wants.

Jonny_N
09-07-2010, 10:28
Not all mutations are external.

Karl MkVI
09-07-2010, 10:29
Also, Abaddon doesn't want to give in to chaos in any form; he believes that Horus failed by giving in to daemonhood, and resents him for that. I know that the OP is asking about mutation, but one thing leads to another... y'know. Abaddon isn't interested in the 'gifts' that chaos can provide; he sees the act of giving in to them as a sign of weakness.

spetswalshe
09-07-2010, 10:40
I always figured it was because Abaddon just isn't that interested in Chaos. They're more of a means to an end for him - just like he is to them. He's not slavishly devoted to them like a Champion of Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Chaos or Nurgle might be, and hence they don't reward him. Rewarding him would be like Khorne saying it's cool to hang out with Slaanesh once in a while - and we all know anyone who doesn't mercilessly slaughter the followers of the Dark Prince is most certainly not on Khorne's Christmas card list. Essentially, they're withholding rewards until he actually does something worthy of their attention - like dedicate himself to them alone. Abaddon couldn't possibly care less, as 10,000 years of getting used to how he is means he doesn't really need a six-foot tongue.

aim
09-07-2010, 11:48
... Abaddon couldn't possibly care less, as 10,000 years of getting used to how he is means he doesn't really need a six-foot tongue.

I'll bet his wife would freaking love that though.

Corax
09-07-2010, 11:53
Didn't it say somewhere (Eye of Terror book, IIRC), that he had been offered Daemonhood 12 times and had refused every time because his motivation is vengeance rather than his own aggrandizement?

Eulenspiegel
09-07-2010, 16:59
I´ve had the same question, as in "Soul Hunter", the Night Lords are mostly non-mutated. The only one to embrace Chaos being the Exalted (who is either a possessee or a full-fledged Daemon Prince). ADB doesn´t mention a single physical mutation on the other Night Lords (forgetting about that Trooper who seems to be affected by Khorne), although they consort with other Chaos forces and have refuge in the Eye of Terror.

So it seems you have to really submit to Chaos to receive its Gifts. You may not know which Gifts you get, but you must want them in the first place.

Although there are numerous instances where people (and xenos, and animals, and even inanimate materials) are affected against their will, or at least without their explicit wish to be so.

Maybe it´s really that you have to serve the Gods AND want their Gifts (remember: a Gift means the God has laid his eye upon you, and approves of you action - that´s what Chaos worshippers believe), although unwitting subjects can be affected as well.

darkeldarman
09-07-2010, 18:51
I am just reading Soul Hunter by A. D-B and the abaddon sigment in there discribes him as seeming not right and slightly mutated underneath. For example, he wears his terminator armour as second skin, his movements are exact and calculated, and their is something glaring in his eyes, a hate for the galaxy.

Iuris
09-07-2010, 19:45
Personally, I assume he IS mutated, just not on the visible parts - in 2nd. edition he was mentioned as possessing the marks of all four gods.

spetswalshe
09-07-2010, 20:23
We do have many examples of unwanted mutations - but bear in mind traitor Marines are a Dark God's most precious resource, and, while they don't exactly care about what happens to them, they are aware that giving them mutations that limit their combat effectiveness is self-defeating, and would only likely be used as a direct punishment or test of faith. Marines like the Death Guard have some rather inconvenient gifts, but then Nurgle compensates them for that. Khornate Marines rarely display physical mutations, other than extreme psychosis and enlarged stature - but there's no reason why they shouldn't be packing dog-faces, extra arms, that kind of thing.

endless
09-07-2010, 22:08
The gods do not care, they have no regard for resources. Abbadon is simply very badly written.

ctsteel
09-07-2010, 22:20
Given Abaddon's disdain for Horus's eventual weakness and the focus he has on destroying the Imperium, I'd also imagine that the Chaos gods don't want to do anything to anger him or cause him to break from his allegiance with them - forcing mutations upon him when he doesn't want them would likely force him to turn on them as well. He's doing fine as a regular science-mutated superhuman - why upset the apple cart by changing him in a way that he would only hate and be distracted by?

DarthMcBob
09-07-2010, 22:45
I always figured it was because Abaddon just isn't that interested in Chaos. They're more of a means to an end for him - just like he is to them. He's not slavishly devoted to them like a Champion of Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Chaos or Nurgle might be, and hence they don't reward him. Rewarding him would be like Khorne saying it's cool to hang out with Slaanesh once in a while - and we all know anyone who doesn't mercilessly slaughter the followers of the Dark Prince is most certainly not on Khorne's Christmas card list. Essentially, they're withholding rewards until he actually does something worthy of their attention - like dedicate himself to them alone. Abaddon couldn't possibly care less, as 10,000 years of getting used to how he is means he doesn't really need a six-foot tongue.

People who are dedicated to Chaos Undivided (ie, not just one of the big four) can get mutations and become Daemon Princes too. Perterabo of the Iron Warriors and and un-named Iron Warriors Warsmith in Storm of Iron, both of whom were not dedicated to any of the big four, got to become daemon princes. So the gods will reward someone who does not worship them specifically. Also, just being near a Warp-touched thing can cause involuntary mutations. How does Abaddon avoid this after living there for 10,000 years?

Eulenspiegel
10-07-2010, 00:35
The gods do not care, they have no regard for resources. Abbadon is simply very badly written.

That´s 100% how I see it.
If any more thought would have gone into Abaddon, he would at least have freaking Horns.

ChaplainOrion
10-07-2010, 03:28
Abaddon is definitely mutated.

At the end of Chaos Rising you see abaddon and he has an 'aura' of some sort, his eyes are glowing white and his skin is so pale he has to be mutated.

Chaos and Evil
10-07-2010, 12:03
Of course he's mutated... he's tiny! :D:angel:

Gorbad Ironclaw
10-07-2010, 16:19
I'd also imagine that the Chaos gods don't want to do anything to anger him or cause him to break from his allegiance with them

That would require a) the Chaos gods to actually care and b) for Abaddon to be important to them and I don't think either of those two requirements are fulfilled.

It's Abaddon and to a slightly lesser extent the other Space Marines and heretics who want to overthrow the Imperium. I don't really think the Chaos Gods cares or way or another. They are timeless beings with galaxy spanning perception. Even if they really wanted to overthrow the Imperium if it takes 10 minutes or 100.000 years doesn't really matter.

Getting there claws into the Space Marines was worthwhile because they are great pawns to push across the table in the great game the gods play but I think that's as far as it goes.

It's the same with Abaddon as an individual. He would make a neat pawn if any one god could claim him but ultimately he just isn't important. Whatever he lives or dies or is mutated or not doesn't really matter to the gods.

It's like playing Bloodbowl and having your star player get injured/killed. It's briefly annoying and you would rather he didn't but ultimately it doesn't matter to you.

retroanubis
12-07-2010, 05:15
have _you_ seen him without that armour?

*shudder*

ashc
12-07-2010, 08:10
I like to think of it how the old Chaos Warrior player character was written for Warhammer Quest. In that, his advances consisted of rolling on tables, and he would either be rewarded with gifts, or mutations.

Whilst both are rewards, mutations were certainly the more debilitating of the two. Typically if you were being giving mutations, yes they were a reward of a sort, but certainly not something you always wanted, and really meant you were on your way to spawndom. You had to keep a balance of gifts vs. mutations to remain human!

I still apply the same principle in my head today with Chaos, and in this case Abaddon as the Chosen Champion of the 4 Gods is carrying far more gifts than mutations.

metal bawks
12-07-2010, 12:13
I like to think of it how the old Chaos Warrior player character was written for Warhammer Quest. In that, his advances consisted of rolling on tables, and he would either be rewarded with gifts, or mutations.

Whilst both are rewards, mutations were certainly the more debilitating of the two. Typically if you were being giving mutations, yes they were a reward of a sort, but certainly not something you always wanted, and really meant you were on your way to spawndom. You had to keep a balance of gifts vs. mutations to remain human!

I still apply the same principle in my head today with Chaos, and in this case Abaddon as the Chosen Champion of the 4 Gods is carrying far more gifts than mutations.

Pretty much what I thought. The WHQ Chaos Warrior advancement you mention is btw directly derived from the one in the old Realms of Chaos books, and just as you say, there are 2 types of "mutations":

Gifts: these are only bestowed as a reward by a Chaos-worshiper's patron god (it can be Chaos Undivided, too). They are always somehow related to what that god stands for: e.g. Khorne would give you weapons, or make you a berserker, or give you brass skin etc.
It's worth noting that even some of these could be bad - for example one of Khorne's "gifts" was personality loss!

Mutations: these are a side-effect of dealing with Chaos, and you don't have to be a follower of Chaos in order to get them. Some Chaos weapons, magic, artifacts etc. can make just about any creature get mutated. Also, mutations came from the same list regardless of someone's patron god.

Garven Dreis
12-07-2010, 12:17
Also, Abaddon has remained equal to his mentor, Horus, in the respect that he has not become a pawn to any of the 4 gods of Chaos (Character entry for Abaddon in the Chaos 3.5 ed 'dex). Perhaps this is a reason why he has no mutations, as Horus did not have mutations, and he was practically at the Zenith of power, mind-warring the Emperor himself.

randian
14-07-2010, 02:13
This question isn't just about Abaddon. I don't recall any of these CSMs being described as heavily mutated. I guess the Chaos Gods really, really favor them, because they show little hesitation to mutate their other Champions.

Kor Phaeron
Erebus
Khârn
Ahriman

It's unclear if Lucius the Eternal is actually mutated by Chaos, or just hideous due to self-mutilation. Similarly, Fabius Bile is heavily mutated by his experiments on himself, but those are not Chaos mutations.

Son of Sanguinius
14-07-2010, 03:15
Ahriman is a tremendously powerful psychic. That in and of itself is a mutation. Kharn is monstrously strong, though admittedly that could be more of chaos granting him physics defying abilities rather than an increase in musculature capabilities. And Lucius is perhaps the most obviously mutated. His left hand is a twin-tentacled whip.

Setesh
14-07-2010, 18:20
It's unclear if Lucius the Eternal is actually mutated by Chaos, or just hideous due to self-mutilation. Similarly, Fabius Bile is heavily mutated by his experiments on himself, but those are not Chaos mutations.

lucius has a hoof though...

Lars Porsenna
14-07-2010, 20:27
Khornate Marines rarely display physical mutations, other than extreme psychosis and enlarged stature - but there's no reason why they shouldn't be packing dog-faces, extra arms, that kind of thing.

Old timers may remember the old Rogue Trader World Eater figures that had the Bloodletter head gift. One of these days I want to see about converting a Skull Champ with a Bloodletter head and see if it is do-able...

Damon, still has those old RT figures...

ashc
14-07-2010, 20:41
the basic CSMs need way more mutations and things, I miss the bio-organic armour look of the old stuff :(

junglesnake
14-07-2010, 20:51
Admitedly I havn't read through all of this but in some cases doesnt the power armour they wear start to warp and mold with their body becoming a hardened skin?

Anothing thing is that in the old days, certain mutations were linked with certain gods. Horns, hooves were Khorne, tentacles of the slimey type were Nurgle etc etc.

The_Blind_Anarchist
14-07-2010, 20:57
I think that if Abaddon was close to destroying the Imperium then Chaos would mutate him or ascend him so he cannot acheive his goal which would end the constant warfare. The way the Imperium is now is how the gods wanted it and like it to be.

Remember this about the Heresy; Horus lost, Chaos won.

Setesh
14-07-2010, 23:31
khornate armour used to fuse with the wearers flesh iirc. And yes khorne had a whole set of mutations based off the daemons, like a champion having a flesh hound 'neck flap' or dogface. Some of the old RT minis are awesome.

Gimp
15-07-2010, 00:07
There was a story in a white dwarf during the 13th Black Crusade

Eldrad and the Seer Council attampt to kill Abaddon and his Chosen before the conflcit and Abaddon and his Chosen attempt to kill Eldrad and the Seer Council as well.

Cant remember it fully but Abaddon charges Eldrad who pacially impales him with his witch blade. But then Abadonn is teleported away to safty by the Gods.

The story however does mention the witch blade pierced Abaddons mutated flesh

Corax
15-07-2010, 01:26
The story however does mention the witch blade pierced Abaddons mutated flesh

Mutated is a pretty broad term, though. In this context, it could have been indicating that Abaddon's flesh was unnaturally resilient. Not all mutation is visibly apparent.

ashc
15-07-2010, 18:04
The story was based on a battle report too; basically Eldrad managed to charge and kill old Abby; had to be explained away somehow :p