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the_gobbo_king
10-07-2010, 02:59
Hey,

Today I have an interesting competition for all you fluff-readers and gamers. If you were tasked with bringing squats back into the prominent background, how would you do it?

The squats have had their worlds destroyed, so how can you bring them back without doing a complete 180 degree turn.

Rules:

1. You may not alter existing fluff (i.e. they were "eaten" by nids.)
2. Try to avoid the "Craftworld Cliche" in which the race flees before there death in giant vessels.
3. Try not to spam the thread with "I wouldn't retcon them back, this is a stupid thread." posts, I would like this thread to remain as a discussion, and not a pointless flame war.

On your marks, set, and RETCON!

Thanks,
Scott.

Mannimarco
10-07-2010, 03:05
Some of them still exist, they are alive and well and living in the Eye of Terror with everybody else who followed Horus during the Heresy.

This makes sense as we know several Squats did follow Horus and fled long before the Tyranids were in the galaxy.

Lord Malice
10-07-2010, 03:16
Squats couldn't really make a come back as a major race of the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Since only a handful of them survive it wouldn't be feasible to protray them as anything other than that. In game terms you could have a unit of Squats work like Deathwatch for example but little more than that.

In background terms I qould restyle the Squats as a damaged and defeated people. I would focus on their grudge bearing attitude, their undying hatred for those they have a greivance with and their practical, no-nonsense approach to problems.

For example it seems likely they would want some serious payback against the Tyranids so I would have a community of Squats who have all been press-ganged into a military hierarchy; like the other battlestar from the latests series of Battlestar Galactica. They exist solely to create weapons to combat the Tyranids, will send suicide squads to test out the new gear and generally be pretty grim. You could have Hearthguard as the military elite, loads of experimental machines and weapons, the sort of inventing and tinkering that would give a Techpriest a heart attack.

Then you could have other Squats out on the fringes of the galaxy looking for new homeworlds to colonise and all sorts of otehr stuff, anything that took them away from being comedy space bikers.

Collinsas
10-07-2010, 03:26
I would not bring them back their concept dose not mesh well with the current 40k setting, but should you want a space dwarf race I would introduce the Demiurg into the next Tau codex, thus bringing them over from BFG and into the 40k mainstream.

ctsteel
10-07-2010, 03:39
A subject race/unit in the tau codex would work, as a colony may have been under the protection of the tau at the time of the nid gobble-up. Likewise it could also be explained as an Eldar Farseer giving them safe passage to the other side of the galaxy away from the nids, due to envisioning a future in which the squats were key players in a particularly important event (downfall/salvation of Imperium, loyal allies of the eldar due to being saved and thus preventing an eldar-related catastrophe, pivotal part of inventing new tech to counter the chaos/necron threats etc). Assuming the eldar saved them and then mostly left them to their own devices (until such time as they were required) they could be given their own codex, since they would have quietly appeared somewhere to the galactic north (for instance the ghoul stars area) and the imperium wouldn't even know about them until they'd rebuilt and repopulated, but this time with 50% more grudge.

Hellebore
10-07-2010, 03:51
This way:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46402&highlight=varyngr

Hellebore

MarshallSam
10-07-2010, 03:53
Why not have a large squat fleet that was lost in the warp suddenly appearover their devastated homeworld. Sailors lost for centuries returning home only to find its not there. The fleet would have to be big enough to sustain the population though.

Remadia
10-07-2010, 06:29
Couldn't they have just hid underground and wait for the tyranids to leave?

Iracundus
10-07-2010, 06:58
The easiest way would be simply that the Tyranids didn't get them all. The few survivors could either exist on board drifting ships (like how Demiurg ships are described as being crewed by either 1 Brotherhood, or several on the larger shisp), or on a few worlds that kept a very low profile or in very dangerous hostile star systems.

The location of these last strongholds (and how to navigate to tem) might become an enormous racial secret, perhaps given only to high ranking leaders so that the average captive would still be unable to betray the race. The strongholds might assume the status of a "Promised Land" or Shangri-la for those that have to venture out, even if it might in reality be a rather bleak industral mining stronghold. Think like the hidden city of Gondolin from Tolkien's Silmarillion. The re-emergence of their race could be an attempt to get more resources to rebuild, or because their strongholds have finally run low on some critical supplies and need to finally access the galaxy to resupply.

ForgottenLore
10-07-2010, 07:15
If I were forced to bring them back somehow...?

Probably a lost colony of some sort. Warp storms have been done to death in the setting and you asked for something different that refugees fleeing the disaster.

Although, if it had been the necrons that destroyed them then it would have to be a refugee fleet, fleeing from the necron tyranny, with a last warship leading a rag-tag fugitive fleet on a lonely quest, a shining planet...wait, that seems familiar.

[SD] Bob Plisskin
10-07-2010, 09:56
Couldn't they have just hid underground and wait for the tyranids to leave?

Deep in the mines of Moria!

Sir_Turalyon
10-07-2010, 11:15
1. I ask for a fluff source proving Squats being eaten by Tyranids is anything more than persistent fan myth. Angry private remarks from Andy Chambers or posts on forums by Studio members don't count, I want to see it described in codex, rulebook, White Dwarf article or even Black Library book.

2. Until such a proof is procured, I laugh in face of everyone trying to argue they were eaten by Tyranids, citing relative location of Squat homeworlds to Tyranid hive fleets, size and spread of Squat civilization (no single homeworld o eat) and lack of evidence of titanic conflict spaning the galactic core in published material.

3. Profit!

Iracundus
10-07-2010, 11:25
1. I ask for a fluff source proving Squats being eaten by Tyranids is anything more than persistent fan myth. Angry private remarks from Andy Chambers or posts on forums by Studio members don't count, I want to see it described in codex, rulebook, White Dwarf article or even Black Library book.




As to the abhuman, the thread is cut. The accursed hive fleet of the tyranid put paid to that line too long ago. - Page 51 of the omnibus edition of The Inquisition War, from a prologue to Draco/Inquisitor.

The above is in reference to Jaq Draco's follower, Grimm the Squat.

TheBigBadWolf
10-07-2010, 11:34
I would not bring them back their concept dose not mesh well with the current 40k setting, but should you want a space dwarf race I would introduce the Demiurg into the next Tau codex, thus bringing them over from BFG and into the 40k mainstream.

I wouldnt bring them back either, I dont know why people hold on to them so much. The Demiurg could work though.

barrangas
10-07-2010, 14:41
Bringing them back and keeping with 40k fluff while avoiding the stardard cliches is a tall order. You could go with something really fantastic like a time travel accident bringing a group forward in time from the Dark Age of Technology. Ultimately I think if GW brought them back it would be with the standard GW/Soap Opera hand waving and ignoring what happened. "But the Squats were eaten!" "Yes but they were so tough the Tyrranids spit them back out." "Really guys?!?"

susu.exp
10-07-2010, 15:32
Well, hellebore already linked to the big thread. But basically, the Nids didn´t eat them all and they haven´t really made contact with the Imperium after the 3rd betrayal (the first betrayal was the Eldar abandoning them when the Ork Warlord Grunhag the Flayer attacked, the second the defection of the Oesmidri and the third the lack of aid from the partners in the great commerce when the Nids came). They are rebuilding what is left, there are higher than usual numbers of Embittered around and the balance of power between the leagues, the strongholds and the guilds has shifted somewhat.

Raditz
10-07-2010, 15:43
Chaos Squat pirates have spearheaded their way thriygh the Eye of Terror. They invade where-ever Fabius Bile is hiding and force him to create an army of squat clones. Fabius isn't pleased with this, but creates a cloned squat army. He then promptly has said army kill the original squats, and sets them out on a suicide crusade towards Holy Terra.

These squats, with no memory of what squats used to be, utilise experimental weapons and technologies given to them by the Dark Mechanis (Or whatever they're called) and lots of chainaxes and poweraxes.

Because Space Pirates > Space bikers anyday.

gloriousbattle
10-07-2010, 16:30
1. You may not alter existing fluff (i.e. they were "eaten" by nids.)



First off, really cool and imaginative post, bravo!

I would not modify existing fluff, but I would explain it.

Always remember that IMPERIAL FLUFF IS NOTHING MORE NOR LESS THAN IMPERIAL PROPAGANDA, AND IT EXISTS SOLELY TO SERVE THE IMPERIUM.

So, what if the 'nids didn't eat the Squats? What if that was the Imperial cover story? Say that the Squats were feared by certain factions of the Adeptus Terra, and that they used the 'nid invasion as an excuse to wipe them out? They were certainly the most powerful of the abhuman races, and their technology was better than Imperial tech. In 1st ed, Squats could even be Inquisitors.

Of course, such a plot might not have been entirely successful, and the Squats that survived might well be enemies of the Imperium. In fact, i think some group once did a campaign based around the idea that the Imperium (being in this case, a spoof on the GW management) had wiped out the Squats.

Other than that...

Time travel: The Squats' incredible technology might have allowed them to seek temporary sanctuary in the past or future. Who knows what they might have brought back?

Cloning: The Imperium without the Squats can only rely on the Adeptus Mechanicus (a spotty organization at best, and now revealed as corrupted by the Necrons) for technical support. They might have to clone the Squats from whatever DNA they could find, just to keep the Imperium functioning.

Lost Colonies: As is so often said, the galaxy is a big place.

gloriousbattle
10-07-2010, 16:36
I wouldnt bring them back either, I dont know why people hold on to them so much.

Because some of us like the idea?

The thought that any 40K race is more or less silly than any other is in itself silly. Space orcs? Space elves? Space hobbits? Space ogres? SPACE DEMONS, FOR GOD'S SAKE?!:wtf: Somehow all of those make perfect sense but no space dwarves?

Gimmee a break. :p

The_Blind_Anarchist
10-07-2010, 18:47
All you have to tone down is the bikers in space idea a bit and up the grim darky bit which could be that most of their race was destroyed by the Tyranids.. Have the embittered survivors aboard their mighty ships travel to new worlds to re start their race..

spetswalshe
10-07-2010, 19:17
First off, I'm not a fan of the Dwarf archetype, in any medium, especially when they turn into a joke like the Squats did. However, the concept of abhumans (and remember, they're abhumans, not xenos like the Eldar) is something I support; the concept of an ab/post/trans-human society existing alongside the Imperium, even more so.

1) The Lost Colony idea. Probably the easiest, and least interesting.

2) The Demiurg idea. If Space-Elves are a separate species, why not Space-Dwarfs? Much as I like the Demiurg mystery, I can't understand why a person who dislikes the Squats would like the Demiurg - they're basically the same thing, just lacking the human connection. And the baggage of years of sub-quality models and background, I suppose.

3) Nothing eaten by the Tyranids really goes extinct - the Hive Mind remembers all. They could come back as an 'emissary race', like the Zoats; if anyone played the first Mass Effect, picture the green Asari cloned by the Thorian. Squats/Dwarfs are already extremely similar to one another in terms of personality and appearance, much more so than humans - so why not use that ancestor-worship and obsession with racial pride and preventing dishonour by giving them an actual collective consciousness? They could be used as ambassadors, communicating with other species - convincing the Tau of the Tyranid's ultimate Greater Good philosophy, or encouraging a system to accept the oblivion they provide - or as spies, like a less animal version of a Genestealer cult, sabotaging defensive efforts from within or selling weapons that won't fire on Tyranid lifeforms.

4) I really like Irancundus' 'paradise' idea - the image that the Squats are hidden away in some weird fold in space/time, drinking and gambling in constant sunshine in a tavern by a waterfall, waiting for the survivors to follow the breadcrumbs that lead them back home.

Alternatively, when Uriel Ventris next raids a Tyranid mothership, have him turn a corner into the Norn Queen's chamber to hear gruff swearing and gunfire - then have a slime-covered Squat roll out of her blasted corpse in some horrible mockery of birth, clutching a smoking shotgun.

"Bugger me," he could say, "That weren't a pleasant experience and no mistake. Don't suppose you've got any ale on you, manling? Few years in an alien's stomach's left me a wee bit parched."

wilsongrahams
10-07-2010, 19:39
Lol, now that would make a good start to a 40k Gotrek and Felix!

Lord Asgul
10-07-2010, 19:49
I would retcon them back into existence by kind of going with the aforementioned Battlestar idea (I love the series, well the 2004 one which was kind of grim dark until the ending :L) but instead of cylon basestar (well actually...), have a few nid ships chasing them and maybe a genestealer infestation here and there. Also they should be more grim dark too, less biker. There probably would be only about 50,000 of them left too.

barrangas
10-07-2010, 21:35
Because some of us like the idea?

The thought that any 40K race is more or less silly than any other is in itself silly. Space orcs? Space elves? Space hobbits? Space ogres? SPACE DEMONS, FOR GOD'S SAKE?!:wtf: Somehow all of those make perfect sense but no space dwarves?

Gimmee a break. :p

To be fair, Daemons make more sense to me in a SF setting then Orcs, Elves, Dwarves, etc. Though I still hate the Daemon army as a concept.

IvanTih
10-07-2010, 22:32
I like the huge fleet idea since it seems good because 40k ships can contain a lot of people.

Sinner_74
10-07-2010, 23:18
First off, really cool and imaginative post, bravo!

I would not modify existing fluff, but I would explain it.

Always remember that IMPERIAL FLUFF IS NOTHING MORE NOR LESS THAN IMPERIAL PROPAGANDA, AND IT EXISTS SOLELY TO SERVE THE IMPERIUM.

So, what if the 'nids didn't eat the Squats? What if that was the Imperial cover story? Say that the Squats were feared by certain factions of the Adeptus Terra, and that they used the 'nid invasion as an excuse to wipe them out? They were certainly the most powerful of the abhuman races, and their technology was better than Imperial tech. In 1st ed, Squats could even be Inquisitors.

Of course, such a plot might not have been entirely successful, and the Squats that survived might well be enemies of the Imperium. In fact, i think some group once did a campaign based around the idea that the Imperium (being in this case, a spoof on the GW management) had wiped out the Squats.



I really like this idea, but instead of them creating the cover story to wipe them out, I'd have the Imperium create the same cover story to hide the truth from the Adeptus Mechanicus and their archaic backward methods. Essentially the Imperium would have huge mining and factory facilities staffed by the Squats and protected by Imperial regiments composed of squats and regular guardsmen - like the old days in RT and as a misty-eyed throwback to the old Paul Bonner drawings from the Compendium... I'd throw in a little fluff that explains that the fleets protecing the Squat homeworlds have had all of their tech-adepts "eliminated" and replaced by the more practical minded squats... I keep seeing this image of a crew of squats walking down the hallway of a ship, grinning, with wrenches over their shoulders and oily smudges on their faces after a quick repair on some mechanical device that the Adeptus wouldn't have been able to fix...

I'd also keep the original fluff of the Squats using Rhinos, Rapiers, Mole Mortars, and the like...

Philip S
11-07-2010, 08:37
If you were tasked with bringing squats back into the prominent background, how would you do it?
I would bring them back as a faction of the Ad-Mec (where the Ad-Mec absorb the 'Squat' civilization).

The Squats are basically 'ab-humans' and are technically still human. The only real difference from most human populations is that they are highly advanced scientifically. This could be a problem for the Ad-Mec - yet they could share similar views as the Ad-Mec as they share a common root civilization.

The squats could be an elite force of techno-hunters and part of a radical group of investigators and experimenters trying to rebuild STC tech (the hard way by reverse engineering and re-inventing).

It would be easy to imagine that many tech-priests could actually be of squat decent, and this 'fact' may go unnoticed in an age of bionics etc. where a few leg extensions wouldn't be a problem. The Squats may really hate their flesh and are always enhancing themselves so it is hard to tell what they originally started out as. It may also further reinforce they cult like behaviour and wish to exclude regular humans.

In fact most of the Ad-Mec could be retconed as 'Squat', as Forge Worlds sound about as compatible as can be with the 'Dwarf' archetype as you can get!

Imagine how a Dwarf would view an entire world that is one massive forge?

Dwarf beards could be remade as a wild mass techno-tendrils, a mix of bushy Dwarf beards and Mind-Flayer. These tendrils could handle fine detail and even end is micro-tool tips. This would allow the Squat/ Dwarf to manipulate and control very small devices that are too delicate for human hands. I could imagine one of these bionic enhanced Ad-Mec examining an alien device held with these tendrils and viewing it through a stack of multiple magnifying lenses.

It would not be hard to make this retcon. The Ad-Mec are already quite distinctive and most of the more powerful characters are augmented with bionic limbs. In fact it would change so little that you could claim it for your own -verse, and it would be 'compatible' with the background.

It would be interesting to see a few new Ad-Mec characters that draw more on the Dwarf archetype.

Philip

TheBigBadWolf
11-07-2010, 09:40
Because some of us like the idea?

The thought that any 40K race is more or less silly than any other is in itself silly. Space orcs? Space elves? Space hobbits? Space ogres? SPACE DEMONS, FOR GOD'S SAKE?!:wtf: Somehow all of those make perfect sense but no space dwarves?

Gimmee a break. :p

Eldar, Orks, Ratings, Ogryns developed a lot more than their respective archetypes by the time the squats were eliminated. The squats were still dwarfs in space, they had nothing of merit on their own.

metal bawks
11-07-2010, 15:00
Eldar, Orks, Ratings, Ogryns developed a lot more than their respective archetypes by the time the squats were eliminated. The squats were still dwarfs in space, they had nothing of merit on their own.

I'll agree with the Eldar and Orks, but how are Ratlings and Ogryns any different from Halflings and Ogres with guns?

gloriousbattle
11-07-2010, 15:57
I really like this idea, but instead of them creating the cover story to wipe them out, I'd have the Imperium create the same cover story to hide the truth from the Adeptus Mechanicus and their archaic backward methods. Essentially the Imperium would have huge mining and factory facilities staffed by the Squats and protected by Imperial regiments composed of squats and regular guardsmen - like the old days in RT and as a misty-eyed throwback to the old Paul Bonner drawings from the Compendium... I'd throw in a little fluff that explains that the fleets protecing the Squat homeworlds have had all of their tech-adepts "eliminated" and replaced by the more practical minded squats...

Actually, I like this idea better than mine.


I keep seeing this image of a crew of squats walking down the hallway of a ship, grinning, with wrenches over their shoulders and oily smudges on their faces after a quick repair on some mechanical device that the Adeptus wouldn't have been able to fix...

:evilgrin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=VGqOzuTbvB4&feature=related

Col. Tartleton
11-07-2010, 18:40
My idea? (Side note; if you check the nid maps, Behemoth never passed through the galactic center invalidating the death of the squats... theory)

There is a genocidal crusade launched on behalf of the Adeptus Terra which is covered up by the wide spread fears of the Tyranid invasion. A large Mechanicus faction seeks to quietly eliminate the squats who have acted as an Empire unto themselves for Millennia, loosely allied with the Imperium like the Mechanicum or Astartes. The Mechanicum wants critical access to the galactic center which is home to innumerable stars and countless planets worth of mineral wealth. Such a treasure trove is rare, especially as the galactic center is relatively safe in terms of trade routes. The Adeptus mechanicus wants a large number of STC templates that the Squats have held onto, and the High Lords want a better control of the large resources available.

As such, an enormous several billion man crusade is raised to "counter the hive fleet" but is actually deployed into the galactic center. This leaves Ultramar without the Battle Fleet of Segmentum Ultima, forcing them to rely on Battle Fleet Bakka from Segmentum Tempestus. The official story is that the fleet was delayed by bad warp travel for years and that Behemoth in fact destroyed the Squats. Any dissent is crushed by the Inquisition.

The Squats managed to evacuate a number of fringe planets on the far side of the crusade, but a number of major planets were virus bombed to simulate Tyranid consumption. The survivors fled much like the Eldar in vast "Hearthships" carrying what remained of their civilization into the Segmentum Ultima's northern fringes. They have attempted to re-stabilize their civilization, but it is largely space borne. They have established trade with the Tau and others under the name Demiurg.

gloriousbattle
11-07-2010, 19:43
The Squats managed to evacuate a number of fringe planets on the far side of the crusade, but a number of major planets were virus bombed to simulate Tyranid consumption. The survivors fled much like the Eldar in vast "Hearthships" carrying what remained of their civilization into the Segmentum Ultima's northern fringes. They have attempted to re-stabilize their civilization, but it is largely space borne. They have established trade with the Tau and others under the name Demiurg.

Also quite cool.

Fingol23
11-07-2010, 20:07
What about a high ranking inquisitor in collusion with the Biologis branch of the Adeptus Mechanicus create a Squat army through the Afriel Strain project?

Wazir
12-07-2010, 04:39
Like an earlier poster, I'd like to know the official source (rulebook or codex) that the squats got eaten. Novels aren't canon and don't count.

The "Nids ate the squats" story never made logical sense. Why would the squats only live on one side of the galaxy? They aren't a young race like the Tau. They've had plenty of time to spread.

Even if all the homeworlds were on one side of the galaxy, there would be survivors. Space miners, space traders, guard regiments deployed elsewhere, emigrants living on human worlds, refugees who escaped the nid horde, colonists, etc....

I'd like to see the squats return harboring a grudge against the Imperium for abandoning them. They could easily emerge as demiurge from deep planetary mines on Nid eaten worlds or from deep spice mining colonies.

I also like the idea of the Inquisition harboring squats as a counterbalance to an untrustworthy and/or heretical AdMech.

Space Orks, Space Elves, Space Hobbits, Space Ogres, Space Knights and Sorcerors, Robotic Space Undead, Space Demons. Why not space dwarves? It seems the only thing really holding them back is GW's lack of imagination.

Grimbad
12-07-2010, 05:17
The survivors are mostly Golgothans in Yarrick's crusade. (Yarrick's Crusade would be the squat 'ultramarine vanilla' color scheme) Other regiments survived the death of the homeworlds simply by being far away, and continue to fight in the Imperium's service.

What killed the majority of them was not just tyranids. In the time of ending, devoting manpower to protecting already heavily armed abhuman fortress-worlds was deemed less important than saving pure human planets with fewer defenses. So the Imperium turned its head, and when they looked back, the squat homeworlds had been overrun by numerous alien factions, one of which was the Tau, whose sharp technological climb was in part from looting the squats.

The remaining squats are alone in an uncaring Imperium. Under apathetic or even hateful human commanders, they are thrown into the crucible of war year after year, and the dwindling of their numbers is just another statistic to be forgotten and ignored. Mutiny, as a result, is not uncommon.

Lothlanathorian
12-07-2010, 07:41
Hey,

Today I have an interesting competition for all you fluff-readers and gamers. If you were tasked with bringing squats back into the prominent background, how would you do it?

The squats have had their worlds destroyed, so how can you bring them back without doing a complete 180 degree turn.

Rules:

1. You may not alter existing fluff (i.e. they were "eaten" by nids.)
2. Try to avoid the "Craftworld Cliche" in which the race flees before there death in giant vessels.
3. Try not to spam the thread with "I wouldn't retcon them back, this is a stupid thread." posts, I would like this thread to remain as a discussion, and not a pointless flame war.

On your marks, set, and RETCON!

Thanks,
Scott.

Your first rule creates a fundamental logic problem. Without altering existing fluff, you can't retcon. To 'retcon' something, you must alter previously established continuity. So, without changing 'they were "eaten" by nids' you are saying 'let us posit what the Squat race is now, in the current setting of the 40K universe after such a great tragedy has befallen their race and how they would function in the grand scheme of things if they were to, again, become a major race'.


Right now, Demiurg. And, were I to bring them back as a major race, it would be starting from there.

LexxBomb
12-07-2010, 11:37
i know im so going to get flamed for this but... you could have a fleeing population of Dwarves from the Warhammer World travel through the remains of the Great polar Gate (due to come some cataclysm of their home) and arrive either on Terra (within the Golden Throne Room) or on an other Planet and have them being rediscovered by the Imperium and made to serve in the Imperial Guard... that way you would have the reinforcement of the universes being linked and not take away from the Space Bikers being eaten by the Tyranids...

anyway there is nothing wrong with space bikers... you already have:
Orks,
Saim Haim
White Scars and Ravenwing.....
(im too tired to use correct grammar)

x-esiv-4c
12-07-2010, 11:41
Why would the Squats integrate with Tau? Squats are not xenos.

Lt.DustyMillar
12-07-2010, 13:02
I favour the idea that they simply withdrew from the Imperium.

Dishearted and disgusted by the treatment they receive from the Imperium the squats start to think about separating themselves, but realise that the Imperium would never simply let them go. So they decide to make the Imperium believe they are dead. Slowly and clearfully they begin a process of moving the populations of the outlying planets in there empire inwards, until they are in such a position to act. Using the movements of the nids fleets close to there empire they begin a series of communications calling for help, at the sametime they kill all imperial personel and set off a number of virus bombs on the now abandoned planets thus presenting the image of a nid attack.

after the 'attack' any ship that is sent into the empire is "lost" and the truth is lost in time.

Thus allowing the squats to develop and mature as a race and you can make them anything you wish.

Malice313
12-07-2010, 14:54
I'd go with the Thresher concept from SLA Industries.

The few remaining Squat head out to the halo starts and find an ancient ruins. The ruins are in fact an intact forge world that, once tweek to life with the Squats tech ability it's AI (oh yes-Artificial Intelligence) meets the squats and decides to help the now homeless race by arming them to the teeth with battle armour and weapon tech the likes of only the Golden Age of Technology may have seen.

Energy weapons capable of turning a man to a shower of goo and steam. Armour that is almost able to fight by itself, can be dropped from orbit and can set up a defensive perimeter with an entire cohort of drone linked back into his battle command HUD. (stop me if this sounds too Tau. I was thinking more along the lines of the Thresher Sarge Suit, Page 247 core rules, as it has the eggs on legs look with a bit of the medieval knight to it, but its totally bas ass!!!

The travel mostly by sub light speed ships, but given their incredible longevity this in more a nuisance.

Not that they need travel too far as they only need mine surrounding systems for the rare minerals required for their hellish technology.

FrankieKhainor
12-07-2010, 16:50
Just before the nids devoured some of the worlds, a mysterious warp storm pulled the main squat world into a place between the eldar webway and the warp. There the squats lived on, not realising that they had moved until a ship stopped at the edge of their 'warp - webway bubble'. The eldar knew of them, and the squats could see ships in the webway and warp, but ships in the warp could not see them. The eldar did not reveal the secret of the world to anyone else - it was a secret stored in the black library (or whatever it's called), and on Iyanden in the infinity circuit.
Some curious eldar decided they wanted to get to the squat world, so, they tried to open a webway portal. This didn't work as planned, but it sent the squat world through a huge ancient webway portal near the edge of the galaxy, of a size that could swallow the solar system around terra in one huge gulp. Also, this placed many anomalies on the squat planet, which they discovered led back to the dimension they had been stuck in, and they could travel, like the eldar through the webway, and they could transport them with special containment fields.

Whilst they were in this other dimension, the squats had made huge technological advances, and were equal to the tau in technological might. This meant that they had huge cannons that could destroy the palace of terra in an instant, if it were not protected as it is. Coincidentally, and luckily for the imperium, an imperial fleet was near the place the planet arrived, and the squats soon rejoined their ancestors, the emperor having been a figure of myth and worship to the squats. They were told about the nids and what they had done, and immediately went to kill some.

THE END

hope it works fluff wise. Hope someone bothered to read it all.

FrankieKhainor
12-07-2010, 17:03
1) The Lost Colony idea. Probably the easiest, and least interesting.

As in artemis fowl?


Alternatively, when Uriel Ventris next raids a Tyranid mothership, have him turn a corner into the Norn Queen's chamber to hear gruff swearing and gunfire - then have a slime-covered Squat roll out of her blasted corpse in some horrible mockery of birth, clutching a smoking shotgun.

"Bugger me," he could say, "That weren't a pleasant experience and no mistake. Don't suppose you've got any ale on you, manling? Few years in an alien's stomach's left me a wee bit parched."

Nice! Another bit of Fowl inspiration? Mulch Diggums?

Or am I just imagining all this stuff to do with Artemis Fowl?

madd0ct0r
12-07-2010, 17:26
... mini story...


meh, stuff being 'pulled' into the warp and reappearing millennia later is a bit of a cliché in 40k.

a massive cliché really.



As for 'the nids ate them', with current given incursion dates, and the fact the squat homeworlds were central in the galaxy makes a proper tyranid fleet almost impossible to justify.

the squats clannish nature, trade links and ancestor worship would make their society massively susceptible to gene-stealer attack though. Remember there was no overarching authority - only the guilds and some leagues of a dozen strongholds each.

One theory is that as the cults of the patriarchs spread, their society began to collapse into civil war and psychic beacons. No actual fleet was involved - they tore themselves apart.

In this weakened and divided state, many outer worlds were abandoned, finished off by natural disaster; ork raids or greedy agents of the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Many more fell pray to the Osemedri, those squats who had sided with Horus.
Prey to both legions and demons, the osemedri raid their ancestors lands for slaves, wealth and stable matter.
On some strongholds, the genestealer cults won out, now eking out a half existence in the dark, each generation knowing less, maintaining the psychic beacon and the hibernating pure strains being their sole reasons for existence.

And on a very few, the Squats survived. As tough as ever, and knowing the universe is turned against them they rebuild, too damn stubborn to die.
It will take millenia, but every year they expand their borders, every year they dig a little deeper. The Varyngr are not to be underestimated.

Biff Gunhed
13-07-2010, 07:15
I think there is certainly room for Space Dwarfs. The problem I see with Squats is that by making them ab-human, they're not proper Dwarfs. Any Dwarf fan, such as myself, sees this as a taint on the Dwarf archetype.

With this in mind, I have two ideas, depending on how married you are to the ab-human idea.

Ab-humans
Squats are ab-humans, as in the established fluff. After a Genestealer infestation and Ork invasion on their core homeworlds, the Squats were severely depleted. Though they enjoyed trade with the Eldar Craftworlds, the Eldar had actually orchestrated the Ork invasion as a means to hold back the Genestealer menace. The Squats were stuck in the middle, but the Eldar had only the bigger picture in mind, and if the Squats had to suffer for the preservation of the Eldar, so be it. The Imperium struck a deal with the somewhat-autonomous Squats: accept the Imperium as your masters and the full might of the Imperium will be brought against the enemies of the Squats. The Squats agreed, but the price was steep: the surviving Squats were forced to work in secret within the confines of the Adeptus Mechanicus, using their superior scientific expertise to further the weaponry of the Imperium of Man. But the Squats' are grudge-holders, and the predations of the Tyranids and Orks, along with the treachery of the Eldar and the Imperium, is not to be forgotten...

Game-wise, this could be built into an Adeptus Mechanicus army. There's been talk for years of the Adeptus Mechanicus becoming their own army; personally I don't think we need it, but it might be an interesting way to resurrect the Squats.

Xenos
If we separate the Squats into actually being Xenos, and even making them the Demiurg, I think there are a lot more interesting ways to develop them. A few years ago, myself and some other long-lost members of Portent put together a concept for the Demiurg based on mixing the Dwarf archetype with Victorian Science Fiction. The Demiurg are masters of robotics, having the core of their forces made up with automatons. Their scientific studies have even advanced to the point where they can not only control space travel through the warp, but also time travel. In this way, it could even be possible to retcon the Squats into the Demiurg by saying they used time travel to escape the predations of the Tyranids. After all, time travel is a great way to retcon something.

Malice313
13-07-2010, 07:24
...a concept for the Demiurg based on mixing the Dwarf archetype with Victorian Science Fiction...

I've seen miniatures for Steampunk kind of Dwarves from a company other than GW... I'm just blowed if I can remember where.

madd0ct0r
13-07-2010, 09:54
privateer press, warmachine, rhul

http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/gallery/mercenaries/unit/hammerfall-high-shield-gun-corps-unit

also the new mantic dwarves have me looking in intrest.

Malice313
13-07-2010, 13:13
Maybe I was thinking teddy bears instead of dwarves:
http://eurekamin.com.au/index.php?cPath=87_126_184_186&sort=3a

sebold
01-08-2010, 11:39
one squat was a primarch, Grungni was human before until horus broke his capsule and exposed him to the warp. now he became an abhuman Squat,
he was later called upon with his legion to keep the daemons from coming throught the collapsed webway in the imp.palace, he was supposed to be rescued but the emperor was sent to neardeath and so they fight, in a place where time is relevant.......:cries:


til they fid jagatai and escape the webway into to commograph and fight tooth and nail our of it..... at least.,. they try to fight their way out:chrome:

I. Nailo
01-08-2010, 17:40
Granted I haven't read through the entire thread yet, but an idea sprang to mind.

You could always say that some of them escaped from the tyranid hive fleet. They were embittered by the lack of aid from the Imperium, and thus vowed to strike against them when they were strong again. They found a distant world, upon which they began to rebuild their society. I'd even love to go as far as they shaved their beards until the day their vengeance was complete.

The "new" squats would most definitely change their name (although my brain is coming up with nothing right now), and I'd put a greater emphasis on their technology and general hardiness. I'm not sure if I'd go the road of another MEQ army, so would probably downgrade them to medium armor (4+ or so) but give them tooled up guns as basic weaponry. Possibly something on par with the Tau pulse rifle, while still trying to keep it distinct. They'd probably still have a love of close quarter fighting, where their innate durability would come into play, and so would still have a pair of ceremonial melee weapons or some such thing.

I'd definitely give them anti-grav technology, as they probably would have been able to trade with the Tau and/or Demiurg, or possibly salvage lost Imperial technology. I'd definitely give them big tanks with powerful guns, probably something similar to the Leman Russ, but floaty and with all energy weaponry instead of solid shell.

Anyhow, that's just my two bits.

Temmy
01-08-2010, 17:43
All you have to tone down is the bikers in space idea a bit and up the grim darky bit which could be that most of their race was destroyed by the Tyranids

Am I the only one who actually liked the space bikers theme?

Zweischneid
01-08-2010, 21:25
Am I the only one who actually liked the space bikers theme?

Well. :D

Maybe as they were about to face the Tyranid Menace in one final, bloody last stand, a shining golden Squat-Biker from half-forgotten Squat-Legends appeared, leading a valiant charge of Squat-Bikers into the maws of the beast.

Most people believe them to be forever lost, but on the Fringe Worlds and Frontiers battling the Tyranid Swarms and countless Xenos, rumors persist of glimmering, golden bikers appearing as if from nowhere in the darkest hour, riding down Genestealers, Ork Boyz or Wraithguard with grim determination before disappearing again, quietly as they have appeared, leaving only carnage, some oil and empty beer-casks as evidence of their passing.

Chem-Dog
01-08-2010, 23:05
An interesting question.....

My personal answer is probably dangerously close to the Cliche clause but here goes....
Warpstorm

A Small, fierce and impassable warpstorm kept a few Squat homeworlds safe from the predations of the Tyranids.
Aeons passed inside the warp shrouded homeworlds and much changed in Squat culture, as the squats themselves passed into legend for the rest of the galaxy, the rest of the galaxy passed into legend for the Squats.
As quickly as they came, the warpstorms receeded, cautiously the Squats, knowing only what their oldest legends hinted at, stepped out into the galaxy once more....

Depending on the slant you want to add, the Warstorm could be artificially generated either by advanced technological means or Alpha+++ level psyker action from the Living ancestors (a self sacrificing endeavour most probably, helps clear up one of the more hokey elements of existing Squat lore).

If you want to continue with the idea of Chaos Squats, the warstorm itself give plenty of scope for renegade factions, warped deviants and whatnot. Could be a interesting element of Squat history that a long running fued has raged between the Chaos squats and the -non- chaos squats.

Nehemiah
02-08-2010, 05:42
I would do it like this because I already have, (and by giving them a more respectable name).

The Dagan would have been a race which was considered abhuman at one time, and evidence of there genetic disimiarities to humans would have been covered up for hundreds of years by a radical Xenos Inquisitor and his followers who believed Mankind would need to ally with aliens if it was to continue to last. However this betrayal is eventually uncovered and the Inquisition is faced with the difficult problem of how to deal the Dagan without admitting the empire was co-existing with an alien race.
Eventually a massive campaign of secret assassinations and persuasion to move the Dagan to the eastern fringe is successful and the empire, while not completely divorced from this alien race, has at least segregated them from the rest of its worlds. When distress calls are received from the Dagan calling for help against a new Xenos threat which seems to be encroaching on the Galaxy from deep space the Inquisition rejoiced in the hope that their problem would be dealt with. No aid was sent and all contact was lost with the last Dagan out posts.
However in more recent times disturbing reports of a xenos similar to the Dagan has emerged from the Galactic East. What the Inquisitors did not expect was at least some of the Dagan escaped eradication and, following in the wake of there ravenous attackers, have mined the worlds left in its wake with no resistance. With this new influx of rare and unique metals and crystals the Dagan were able to advance there technology quickly. Though there numbers have been depleted they are a race which refuses to die.

BurnTheMonkey
02-08-2010, 10:21
In the thirty-second year of the Unberound Sounding it came to pass that the High Chief of the Callois Grouping called the Great Priesthood together. War spread to every corner of the Squat territories each new mining claim was paid for in loyal blood and there were worrying reports of Squats turning against one another.

More worryingly still the Ancestor Device had fallen silent. Unbelievably ancient and inscrutable to even the technological expertise of the High Engineers, the Ancestor Device allowed communication with the Ancient Gods. Unlike the weak men of the Imperium or the whimsical Eldar the Squats placed their faith not in fickle creatures of the warp but in the Maruk-Tar, those who had gone before. In ages long past the early Squats, had left the Galaxy as we know it, braving the perils of the void beyond the farthest spirals. They promised one day to return and left the Ancestor device as a beacon to guide them home when they had found the great haven the Squats desired, free from the war and machinations of life alongside the Imperium. Thusly a great fleet of ten thousand great Void crawlers was commissioned and built, and in the second year of the Scarlet Mountains it left, seeking to follow their ancestors, vowing to return only when they had found them and could either repair the ancestor device or lead the rest of their brothers to the Great Haven...

Fast forward to the ‘present day’.

The great fleet has returned. They have seen something in the void... something terrifying. Was it the ancestor ships, defiled and lifeless, fallen to some unknown terror? Was it simply the terror of the void, away from the sight of stars? Or was it something else, Survivors refused to speak of it to questioning humans. What is know is that they returned wielding new and terrifying technologies and made as direct a course as possible for the old Squat empire.
There they find the core worlds lifeless and bare. No sign of the Squats anywhere. Beneath the greatest of cities great caverns lie in ruin. Using the ancient secrets they penetrate the Deep holds, the last refuge of the race in times of trouble. Inside they find something worse than nothing. Whole clans annihilated by genestealer infections as they hid while in others hunger lead to inter-family war and cannibalism before succumbing to starvation.
Furious and terrified at the same time they blame the uncaring imperials for failing to honour their pacts of allegiance. A new power arises in the fleet, the Priesthood of the Void, preaching that the traditional Gods are dead and that the squats must reforge their empire anew to protect themselves from destruction.

There you go. My personal wishlist for bringing back the short ones. Angry, bitter, faced with the complete destruction of their race, having had lots of time to design new killy stuff and possibly steal some tast ancestor weapon goodness. Also you can redesign them so they don’t look like biker dwarves.

I. Nailo
02-08-2010, 19:35
I've seen miniatures for Steampunk kind of Dwarves from a company other than GW... I'm just blowed if I can remember where.

Finally got a chance to read a bunch of older posts.
Is this what you were referring to?

http://www.nobleknight.com/ViewProducts.asp_Q_ProductLineID_E_2137417763_A_Ma nufacturerID_E_2145082574_A_CategoryID_E_16_A_Genr eID_E_

The minis shown are no longer being made, as Rackham went the road of pre-painted "plastic" minis. (the plastic quality is so poor I'd almost compare it to rubber given its pliability).

But yeah, these are some awesome minis from my fonder memories of Rackham. I'd be in heaven is squats went this road :D