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Thruster
10-07-2010, 07:21
Is it just me, or do most "Evil" armies come out on the top compare to the "Good" ones (Lizardmen are in the middle, they kill everybody)?

Also, in "The Warhammer World" section that describe each army by their details, Daemon and Warrior of Chaos seem to get more art works...

Hmm... I think GW staffs are on Chaos side!!!

Tenken
10-07-2010, 07:35
GW does love them some chaos. I think the "bad guys' generally come out on top it seems because they tend to be more elite armies. The idea of submitting to corruption for power is evident in chaos' fluff, and in it's rules (warriors sold their souls to be the best core troops in the game). However you then have armies like skaven, who are definitely hordey, with a few powerful creatures/warmachines. On the good side you have brets, who are a very elite army with powerful cavalry.

Also chaos is GWs brain child really. It's about the one thing that makes their otherwise fairly generic fantasy setting unique. At least it used to back before the cosmic tea party bull crap.

With a few exceptions, very few armies are simply better than others. They're just different.

Ultimate Life Form
10-07-2010, 09:21
I think you may be on to something; also last time I checked the bad armies outnumbered the good a fair bit. GW really has a penchant for the evil guys. However every Chaos incursion has been repelled until now and it is safe to assume this will continue to happen as they need Empire and HE and so on; it is all a delicate balance (or then again maybe not).

Commissar Vaughn
10-07-2010, 09:28
Well of course they do, Evil armies arent going to impart much fear on an enemy if everyone can backhand them into the middle of last wardrobe.

Evil armies should be a real threat: what gets me tho is the bizzare alliance system GW goes on about, as though high elves and empire can never fight each other out of some kind of wierd stiffy for each other: its like a permenant WW2 with everyone picking a side, where I reckon it should be more like the wars of religion where your ally is simply the enemy who dies second.

Kerill
10-07-2010, 09:32
Chaos is not really GW's brainchild, its fairly directly lifted from Michael Moorcock.

Remember though, three of the bad armies are actually one army (Chaos) which were split for the financial benefits. Same with the undead- basically one army all coming from the same fell sorceror.

So that puts the count as 6 good armies and 6 evil armies. In fact ogre kingdoms aren't entirely evil either.

Then you also have DOW (good) and chaos dwarves (evil).

ftayl5
10-07-2010, 09:51
Well duh, there gotta be more evil armies! And that doesn't mean that GW prefer evil
Seriously, which sounds better?
"And once again in a completely fair fight, were the odds were sort of 50/50, the forces of the Empire won a war against _________"

OR

"And once again, the gallant forces of the Empire where fighting for their lives against a massive host of Orcs and Goblins. The battle seemed hopeless, the exhausted state troops could hold on no longer when suddenly a comet was seen in the sky, inspiring the Imperial soldiers to fight on and against all odds, they beat back the greenskin horde!" (or something of that manner)

And what Vaughn said is good too

Kaptajn_Congoboy
10-07-2010, 09:57
Skaven are also lifted off Fritz Leiber. But being derivative is almost a staple of Fantasy fiction. As is, sometimes, the "duh-huh, we're evil, nothing ever changes" thing that plagues many of the factions of both WHFB and 40k.


In fact ogre kingdoms aren't entirely evil either.

No, they're downright pleasant folks, what will all the "we ate their young" shtick :rolleyes:

Thruster
10-07-2010, 11:52
No, they're downright pleasant folks, what will all the "we ate their young" shtick :rolleyes:


LOL!!

It's funny though that when I read the story about Daemons, they seem to imply that Daemons come in Hordes, out number the tiny amount of good guys. However, last I checked, Empire and High Elves easily outnumbered Daemons in most games I have seen because their core is the same price as both good guys' elites.

wizbix
10-07-2010, 11:54
Grand father Nurgle wrote the original rule book. He's also responsible for my athletes foot!

SilasOfTheLambs
10-07-2010, 14:22
With regard to power levels, the new edition seems to have moved some of the good guys (empire and dwarfs specifically) way way up in power relative to some of the evil guys (notably VC and Daemons). They buffed war machines (which the good guys have), nerfed monsters (which the good guys normally don't), and buffed ranked infantry (which the good guys tend to use for lack of anything else to do). other "good" armies (the two types of elves, lizardmen, and brets) are at best about where they were, and at worst somewhat screwed. However, all through 7th the power armies were ALL evil armies: Daemons, Dark Elves, Counts, and then arguably warriors of chaos on a par with the high-end good armies. The balance is somewhat restored, if you're not ready to jump on the "skaven are the new daemons! ZOMG PANIKZ" bandwagon.

indytims
10-07-2010, 15:49
GW has ALWAYS had a woody for Chaos. Back in the day before army books even existed, Chaos had TWO ENORMOUS HARDBACK BOOKS.

In every edition I've played, Chaos ALWAYS was equal or better than anything else the Good side could put on the table.

I think they did it that way because Chaos let some players bring out their inner-evil, and because GW always subscribed to the notion that defeating evil SHOULD be DIFFICULT.

I know I've ALWAYS felt a little more satisfaction when I beat a Chaos army over any other army, that's for certain. :)

Thruster
05-10-2010, 04:01
Grand father Nurgle wrote the original rule book. He's also responsible for my athletes foot!

Are you suggesting Matt Ward is responsible for your athletes foot?? :D

RunepriestRidcully
05-10-2010, 06:10
If GW loves chaos, how do you explain the situation in 40k?...
Matt Ward has single handedly split the fan base, but the way GW keeps him on no matter how bad the reaction to his latest twilight quality book, (he is the whatshername of wargames) I must presume he is some kind of eldritch abomination who holds the GW higher ups in his power, either that or guys at GW HW do not care about their player/fan base. In fantasy whilst the Chaos warriors are good, spare a thought for the poor, poor beastmen.

Scythe
05-10-2010, 06:47
If GW loves chaos, how do you explain the situation in 40k?...

While they love Chaos, they are married to Space Marines. Above all, they love money, and they get that from Marines more than Chaos ;)

Wakerofgods
05-10-2010, 19:45
What are you guys on about...Choas aren't evil!

They are just doing what their Gods tell them to do :P.

xxRavenxx
05-10-2010, 20:16
I think the issue is subtlety.


What do evil guys do? Kill people and be spikey.

How is this reflected in rules and models? By making them killey, and sculpting them with spikes.

What do good guys do? Fight evil and wear spiffey pantaloons...

How is this reflected? By being more rounded armies, with sexy trousers.

R-Love
06-10-2010, 00:00
Matt Ward has single handedly split the fan base,

How so? If anything, he's brought them together. He has brought the entire fan base to a single mindset, one where we burn him in effigy and call curses down upon him. :D


What are you guys on about...Choas aren't evil!

They are just doing what their Gods tell them to do :P.

One could argue that unthinking obedience is the very essence of evil. In fact, I recall that very argument from somewhere...:shifty:


I think the issue is subtlety.


What do evil guys do? Kill people and be spikey.

How is this reflected in rules and models? By making them killey, and sculpting them with spikes.

What do good guys do? Fight evil and wear spiffey pantaloons...

How is this reflected? By being more rounded armies, with sexy trousers.

Perhaps, but the evil armies don't have to run around in codpieces. They have naught to compensate for :evilgrin:

A. Smith
06-10-2010, 01:56
Hate to break it to you, but they're not codpieces.

Trains_Get_Robbed
06-10-2010, 05:16
Yes, evil armies are so "prevalent" in WFB, its gross. Not until the last second heriocs of some random human or elf or lizard "joe" is the world sparred for ten years for them to repopulate and then get utterly destroyed again etc. . . rinse and repeat. I want to see the ordered-justice take the fight to evil one time and destroy say the rumored "south pole" of chaos just so that something actually dies. Hell if the Empire or H.E failed and all died fine by me, but the plot needs to move on.

Hence Rick Priestly and that new IAB for WFB. :D

PS. G.W has he biggest hard-on ever for chaos in WFB, really its tempting to play a spikey evil armored army, however can we not just gloat how awesome they are in the Rbrb or taut them in generic fluff.

Wakerofgods
06-10-2010, 06:47
[QUOTE=R-Love;5029009]
One could argue that unthinking obedience is the very essence of evil. In fact, I recall that very argument from somewhere...:shifty:
QUOTE]

Possible!

Though even if that's true I doubt the chaos mortals have much in the way of rational thinking abilities. Between their culture and the warping influence of the chaos gods they might not have any ability to reason on moral issues.

My poor chaos warriors, so missunderstood and abused...

Alltaken
06-10-2010, 10:38
With regard to power levels, the new edition seems to have moved some of the good guys (empire and dwarfs specifically) way way up in power relative to some of the evil guys (notably VC and Daemons). They buffed war machines (which the good guys have), nerfed monsters (which the good guys normally don't), and buffed ranked infantry (which the good guys tend to use for lack of anything else to do). other "good" armies (the two types of elves, lizardmen, and brets) are at best about where they were, and at worst somewhat screwed. However, all through 7th the power armies were ALL evil armies: Daemons, Dark Elves, Counts, and then arguably warriors of chaos on a par with the high-end good armies. The balance is somewhat restored, if you're not ready to jump on the "skaven are the new daemons! ZOMG PANIKZ" bandwagon.

Hey hey hey! LM did rock the boat in 7th too, specially against VX

An besides Chaos warriors with huge shoulder armor and tiny heads are pretty much their idea, so forth cometh the space marines and all their progeny, chaosy or not.

Son of Plunder
06-10-2010, 12:31
Because chaos have so much variation and at least:

CHAOS IS AWESOME!!

Nuada
06-10-2010, 13:08
Maybe it's because it's unusual to have the opportunity to play the evil side.

When i started you always played the good side in roleplay games, computer games and board games attempting to defeat evil. Warhammer was my first chance to have evil troops on your side.

Not quite the same now, there's lots of computer games and RP games where you're evil characters.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
06-10-2010, 16:21
It's a New World Order plot with the Illuminati and Free Masons and 2012 and FEMA and the Maya and Barack Obama to make us all evil, burn our Bibles and to take our gunz!!!!! Everyone knows Mat Ward works for the Black Vatican and FrankenHitler :eyebrows::rolleyes::p

Evil sells, because counter culture says "everyone wants to be good so be unique by being evil- here's a store you can purchase things that indicate how unique and non-good-aligned you are".