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Ellikka
10-07-2010, 17:54
Do skaven get the benefit from strength in numbers against the death lore signature spell?

mightyzombie
10-07-2010, 18:11
Do skaven get the benefit from strength in numbers against the death lore signature spell?

RAW, I'd say yes. Is it intended for a skaven whose in a big group to have a more resilient SOUL? Seems unlikely. I don't even think we HAVE souls. :)

Tae
10-07-2010, 19:19
It uses their unmodified leadership, so no, no SiN.

Screaming Manti
10-07-2010, 19:28
Isnt this the same as SiN with steadfast. The skaven book says to add their rank bonus to their leadership value for any leadership test.

Tae
10-07-2010, 19:43
Isnt this the same as SiN with steadfast. The skaven book says to add their rank bonus to their leadership value for any leadership test.

It may do, however Spirit Leech says unmodified, so that means what it says on their profile - which is without SiN.

Lord Zarkov
10-07-2010, 19:51
It may do, however Spirit Leech says unmodified, so that means what it says on their profile - which is without SiN.
So does steadfast - FAQ says SiN trumps
Skaven seem to get it against everything - even Banshee screams!

RanaldLoec
10-07-2010, 20:50
Notice in the skaven faq the steadfast is added before sin so your stat leadership for your general is unmodified 7 then add sin. But sin is not unmodified so if you lose combat your sin bonus can be modified to bring you back down to your base unmodified leadership 7.


Example

A unit of 20 skaven clanrats 5 by 4 so 3 ranks.
Loses combat to a unit of empire knights through casulaties by 2

Skaven are steadfast at leadership 5

Then add sin bonus of 3 to get leadership 8

The 8 does not come under stead fast so minus of 2 to get leadership 6

If the empire knights won by 4 that would cancel out the sin bonus but would not reduce the clan rats past 5 due to steadfast.


If you don't believe me read your skaven pdf and faq carefully it clearly states sin is added after steadfast.

Tae
10-07-2010, 21:52
So does steadfast - FAQ says SiN trumps
Skaven seem to get it against everything - even Banshee screams!

Look what the answer in the FAQ states:

"Q. How does the ‘Strength in numbers’ rule interact with the
‘Steadfast’ rule? (p33)
A. The Strength in Numbers rule is applied after the Steadfast
rule (i.e. ranks are added to the unmodified Leadership)."

Note my added emphasis. Ranks are added to the unmodified leadership, thereby confirming that the unmodified leadership does not include the ranks (if it did, you couldn't then add them to it - else you'd have added the ranks twice).

Therefore my original point is valid, Spirit leech uses a model's unmodified leadership, which does not include the ranks.

horror
10-07-2010, 22:47
Yes. Skaven add their SIN to every leadership based test. Every leadership test includes ones that are described as both modified and unmodified.

Skaven's leadership is interminably tied to all leadership tests.

Tae
11-07-2010, 08:32
Yes. Skaven add their SIN to every leadership based test. Every leadership test includes ones that are described as both modified and unmodified.

Skaven's leadership is interminably tied to all leadership tests.

Except that Spirit Leech isn't a leadership test, it's a modified dice off. The modifier being your unmodified (which as I highlighted in my previous response, does not include SiN) leadership.

mightyzombie
11-07-2010, 11:39
Technically, SiN says that it applies to all Ld BASED tests, so i can see why some would argue for applying it in this case, but I'm going to have to agree that this isn't even considered a TEST of any sort. It is most definately a Roll Off as described on RBRB pg 7, and therefore, distinctly different from a Test, as described on RBRB pg 10.

And, as SiN says it only applies to Ld based TESTS, it should not be used in this case. Come on, Skaven. We got a nice bone thrown to us in getting SiN with Steadfast. We can't win em all.

Ganymede
11-07-2010, 15:34
Technically, SiN says that it applies to all Ld BASED tests, so i can see why some would argue for applying it in this case, but I'm going to have to agree that this isn't even considered a TEST of any sort. It is most definately a Roll Off as described on RBRB pg 7, and therefore, distinctly different from a Test, as described on RBRB pg 10.

And, as SiN says it only applies to Ld based TESTS, it should not be used in this case. Come on, Skaven. We got a nice bone thrown to us in getting SiN with Steadfast. We can't win em all.

Actually, "leadership based tests" was removed in the recent FAQ. Now, SiN works against leadership tests.

Rogzor87
11-07-2010, 17:41
And Yes i do agree that SiN will not work since its not an actual test.

Well that is going to suck for skaven hero sniping then. Comparing skaven LD 6-7 against everyone else having 8-10 will hurt a lot.

Minsc
11-07-2010, 17:45
Skaven add their SIN to every leadership based test.

The word "add" in the same query as "unmodified" does it for me.

Besides as already mentioned, Spirit Leech isn't a Ld-test, you just roll a D6 and adds your (unmodified) Ld. If you increase it due to SiN, you are modifying it.
Yes, Skaven characters are vulnerable to Spirit Leech.