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mightyzombie
10-07-2010, 18:07
I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but I didn't see it if it was.

A Slann Mage-Priest can be a Lizardman army BSB, in addition to the army general. All standard bearers are now subject to the Last Stand rule (pg 94). Basically, if they flee from combat, they die. I didn't see anything in the Lizard errata to suggest that this was not the case, so is there something about the Slann itself, as I'm not terribly familiar with it, that would prevent it from simply dying if it happened to flee from combat (and was the BSB obviously), other than the fact that he's cold-blooded Ld 9, and thus just very unlikely to break from combat?

It doesn't seem like it should be the case, since he's also the army general, but I can't find anything to refute it.

qwertycg
10-07-2010, 18:39
He can break in combat. But I am not 100% sure what you are asking.

mightyzombie
10-07-2010, 18:54
Sorry for not being entirely clear. The Last Stand rule says that if a standard bearer flees from battle he is removed as a casualty. I was honestly hoping that this wouldn't be the case with a Slann BSB who was also the general, since that would just REALLY suck to lose a Level 4 Wizard, a General, and a BSB for losing 1 model, just because the unit got unlucky and failed a break test. While I realize that it's unlikely to happen, it still CAN happen.

Ultimate Life Form
10-07-2010, 18:57
I've seen nothing that would prevent this...
This really sucks, but you should be fine as long as you take a regular BSB.

mightyzombie
10-07-2010, 19:06
I've seen nothing that would prevent this...
This really sucks, but you should be fine as long as you take a regular BSB.

Not me, actually. I play skaven. I ask on behalf of a friend who plays the lizard-things. But yeah, a scar-vet BSB was pretty much the conclusion he came to as well.

minionboy
10-07-2010, 19:07
The BRB clearly says that a BSB does die if they flee on p.107

Ultimate Life Form
10-07-2010, 19:09
Must be really fun seeing the temple Guard leg it while the Slann makes his last stand. :rolleyes:

Backgroundwise this is total nonsense, but this has never stopped GW...

Gaargod
10-07-2010, 19:14
Ld9 coldblooded stubborn rerollable. You'll be fine.

More of an issue if you don't have temple guard around you, of course. So don't make lone slann BSBs (unless you don't think he'll get into combat, ever) and hope the TG don't all die.

Ultimate Life Form
10-07-2010, 19:44
Given this new revelation you bet I'll never leave home without the +1 LD banner again.

Kugruk
11-07-2010, 07:52
<-- The lizardmen player he's talking about.


I'm almost flabbergasted that this is able to happen. I don't think that my TG + Slann unit has lost a combat yet, But I'm rather sure it will happen sooner or later. There is no reason a Temple Guard should EVER leave a Slann to die while he "defends his standard." Good thing Temple Guard arent SPAWNED FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE TO GUARD THE SLANN, right?.

So, yeah, the only way around this is to make a scar vet the BSB and stick him in another unit.

Necromancy Black
11-07-2010, 10:09
ULF, doesn't the new stubborn let you use the general leadership (unmodified) if it's in range?

theunwantedbeing
11-07-2010, 10:14
ULF, doesn't the new stubborn let you use the general leadership (unmodified) if it's in range?

No, the general does not generate a stubborn bubble.

eg.
Stubborn ld6 stegadon in range of a slann
It's now stubborn ld9

Ld6 skinks in range of a stubborn ld9 slann
are now ld9, but dont get stubborn from the slann

Necromancy Black
11-07-2010, 10:48
Yeah, that's what I meant, so yes.

Harwammer
11-07-2010, 11:07
Slaan don't run good, I guess the bsb is the straw that broke the frog's back. Besides which you'd be awfully unlucky for a slaan bsb with templeguard to break from combat and even without last stand things would be going very, very badly.
What's the chances of fleeing on stubborn, rerollable, coldblooded leadership 9?

mightyzombie
11-07-2010, 11:50
What's the chances of fleeing on stubborn, rerollable, coldblooded leadership 9?

So low as to border on impossible, I'd imagine. The fact that in that once-in-million chance, the temple guard would just run away leaving the Slann to die "defending his banner", struck me as being so ENTIRELY stupid, that I was certain that it had to actually not work that way, even if the Slann was the only BSB exempt from it.

Stumpy
11-07-2010, 13:03
Scar-veteran BSBs are so good, who cares? The only reason I see for the slann to be the BSB is if you've done the stupid ethereal+BSB+warbanner combo.

Necromancy Black
11-07-2010, 13:40
Slann BSB in TG are still better, and less likely to die.

Bodysnatcher
11-07-2010, 14:11
[QUOTE=mightyzombie;4809902]So low as to border on impossible, I'd imagine. QUOTE]

0.26% actually. Or once in every 386 attempts.

Necromancy Black
11-07-2010, 14:13
[QUOTE=mightyzombie;4809902]So low as to border on impossible, I'd imagine. QUOTE]

0.26% actually. Or once in every 386 attempts.

Also known as "In that game last Thursday when I needed to pass to win the game. FML" :p

Stats are funny things in that they only usually match up over a large sample size. The chance of failing the first ever break test with the TG unit in a game is low, but not impossible ;)

Tuch
11-07-2010, 17:05
The way my dice hate me I'll manage to lose my Slann BSB at least once every 2 or 3 games with this new ruling.

Greyfire
11-07-2010, 17:33
Wouldn't we love to see the design notes for this rule? I'd like to see if they thought it was acceptable to lose the Slann like this, or if they just figured it would never happen so didn't need an FAQ.

Minsc
11-07-2010, 17:35
The rules are clear, (although unfluffy in the case of the Slann), but the solution is simple - Don't make the Slann a BSB if you expect him to break from combat.

Blitz001
11-07-2010, 17:59
Slaan don't run good, I guess the bsb is the straw that broke the frog's back. Besides which you'd be awfully unlucky for a slaan bsb with templeguard to break from combat and even without last stand things would be going very, very badly.
What's the chances of fleeing on stubborn, rerollable, coldblooded leadership 9?

no the slaan doesnt run good, but the temple guard would do anything in their power to make sure the slaan can escape. Even if they have to drag him away.

solkan
11-07-2010, 18:34
There's a really simple explanation.

The Slann actually tried to run off with the rest of the unit, but trips over the overly elaborate banner, and then to save face does the whole "I meant to do this!" act. It's the temple guard who go around saying that the Slann chose to valiantly defend the banner. :eek:

"Well, you see Gov', we were trying to get Mr. High and Mighty out of there, but he wouldn't have any of it..."

Kugruk
11-07-2010, 21:37
There's a really simple explanation.

The Slann actually tried to run off with the rest of the unit, but trips over the overly elaborate banner, and then to save face does the whole "I meant to do this!" act. It's the temple guard who go around saying that the Slann chose to valiantly defend the banner. :eek:

"Well, you see Gov', we were trying to get Mr. High and Mighty out of there, but he wouldn't have any of it..."

Well, I think it would be rather hard to trip over something, if you have never even touched the ground since the beginning of time, but rather float over everything. Also, there are several references of temple guard guarding a Slann for MONTHS absolutely unmoving. No Temple Guard would EVER flee from a Slann. I would almost rather remove the entire unit that have the TG run away without the Slann. At least this way I could make the arguement that they all Stood to defend the Slann in his "final stand." Lets face it, if I lost the slann, I've already lost the game.

madden
11-07-2010, 22:34
Na he didn't trip he though oh dear I'm gonna get boned and used his magic to teleport away, leaving the temp gaurd woundering were he went.

Necromancy Black
12-07-2010, 00:23
Don't make the Slann a BSB if you expect him to break from combat.

And if you expect this to happen you've already lost.

killerbot
12-07-2010, 14:10
Ld9 coldblooded stubborn rerollable. You'll be fine.

More of an issue if you don't have temple guard around you, of course. So don't make lone slann BSBs (unless you don't think he'll get into combat, ever) and hope the TG don't all die.

lol, ld9 ? put him temple guard with the banner of +1 Ld then thats ld 10 with cold blooded +re roll less than 2% chance of failure :D

huitzilopochtli
12-07-2010, 14:59
But if you make him ld10, he can't act as general, no?

Minsc
12-07-2010, 15:27
But if you make him ld10, he can't act as general, no?

It's beeing discussed. The general concensus seems to be "wait for the FAQ."

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266185

huitzilopochtli
12-07-2010, 15:30
Thanks, thought I saw that somewhere but couldn't find it again.

Still, even with ld9, rerolling cold blood means you'd be very unlucky to lose your slann like that.