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stashman
10-07-2010, 22:43
I have some questions to ask about O&G new "bestiary troop type"

I have some questions to ask about O&G new "bestiary troop type"

Squig Hoppers counts as cavalry, does that mean they have 6+ armoursave?

Squigs counts as warbeasts (not infantery) and benefit from the swiftstride rule BUT nightgoblins in the same unit moves as infantery. How to work out a charge here?

Snotlings are swarms, but are they skirmish?

Skasnik counts as a monstrous beast. Do he benefit from stomp and swiftstride rule?

Geep
10-07-2010, 23:37
I'm not basing these on anything other than what I see as common sense.

1. I'd assume yes, squig hoppers get a 6+ save (if this is a cavalry rule)

2. Units move at the speed of the slowest model in the unit (unless this has changed), so I'd say a squig herd as a whole does not have the swift stride ability.

3. As long as swarms have the skirmish rule then yes, snotlings would skirmish. Unfortunately the rules indicate that they are not unbreakable like other swarms, and are still stubborn Ld 4...

4. Skarsnik would have stop and swiftstride, but is unlikely to ever be able to use swift stride.

stashman
10-07-2010, 23:55
4. Skarsnik would have stomp and swiftstride, but is unlikely to ever be able to use swift stride.

Can you use the stomp attack with killing blow

(not just Skarsnik, all models with stomp and killing blow)

stripsteak
11-07-2010, 04:58
Squigs counts as warbeasts (not infantery) and benefit from the swiftstride rule BUT nightgoblins in the same unit moves as infantery. How to work out a charge here?
giant rats and packmasters are the same. Seems like they'll be moving at the speed of the slowest model until that slow model gets killed. then they can 'zip around'.

mightyzombie
11-07-2010, 06:45
The only reference I've found to units moving with the slowest move value within them is int eh characters section, but Swiftstride, I believe, expressly states "units containing models who all have swiftstride" or something to that effect. Don't have the book on me to give an actual quote, but I had this same question, and that's what sold me on it.

Swoop
11-07-2010, 08:25
We came across a different issue with squig herds. My opponent had 2 ranks of squigs and 2 ranks of goblins behind that. When I killed a bunch of squigs he started to remove casualties from the rear (goblins). We couldn't find anything that said this was wrong but I feel its against the intent of the rules. This would also be an issue with skaven rat ogres and giant rats. We ended up playing that squigs had to be taken as casualties for attacks directed against them but I couldn't find anything in the rules to clarify this.

Also another issue was fanatics. It seems odd that these suicidal units would cause panic tests to their parent unit or other units when the die within 6 inches. We decided they should not cause panic tests.

I would have liked these issues to have been addressed in the FAQ.

Swoop!

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Dutch_Digger
11-07-2010, 11:18
you have to allocate your attacks so i dont see how you end up removing a different kind of models which you could not attack in the first place

Urgat
11-07-2010, 14:56
I would have liked these issues to have been addressed in the FAQ.

Yeah, they totally forgot about the squigs, when I was expecting them to have the largest bits of faq... as for fanatics, well, mind you, they did adress the panic deal, they do make nearby gobs panic if they trip on some rubble. Yeap, one more reason for me not to bother with them anymore.


We came across a different issue with squig herds. My opponent had 2 ranks of squigs and 2 ranks of goblins behind that. When I killed a bunch of squigs he started to remove casualties from the rear (goblins). We couldn't find anything that said this was wrong but I feel its against the intent of the rules. This would also be an issue with skaven rat ogres and giant rats. We ended up playing that squigs had to be taken as casualties for attacks directed against them but I couldn't find anything in the rules to clarify this.

This: if you attack a unit champion and kill him, do you remove a model from behind and then the champion is safe? I don't see why squigs should be any different.

ghostline
11-07-2010, 15:26
The thing about champions is that you have to SPECIFICALLY allocate attacks against him. Otherwise he is safe.

stashman
11-07-2010, 15:37
What happens if you take an orc bully to your warmachine?

+1W and T4 close combat?

Rafi
11-07-2010, 18:55
What happens if you take an orc bully to your warmachine?

+1W and T4 close combat?

I was curious about this as well. It looks like a bad idea, actually.

pg. 108 BRB '...the majority Toughness of the crew is used in close combat attacks.'

So they'd be T3 (majority gobbos) in close combat.

pg. 17 O&G Army Book about Size Matters 'Orcs (and war machines crewed by an Orc Bully) do not take Panic tests cause by Snotlings, Squigs or Goblins (including chariots and war machines crewed by Snotlings or Goblins).'

This would seem to imply that a war machine crewed by an Orc Bully counts as an Orc unit, which means that if destroyed it would cause Panic tests in Orc units, which is a bad thing.

Cambion Daystar
11-07-2010, 19:00
3. As long as swarms have the skirmish rule then yes, snotlings would skirmish. Unfortunately the rules indicate that they are not unbreakable like other swarms, and are still stubborn Ld 4...

But they can use the generals for their test, so they become stubborn on Ld9 if within reach of an Orc lord.

rtunian
11-07-2010, 19:02
pg. 17 O&G Army Book about Size Matters 'Orcs (and war machines crewed by an Orc Bully) do not take Panic tests cause by Snotlings, Squigs or Goblins (including chariots and war machines crewed by Snotlings or Goblins).'

This would seem to imply that a war machine crewed by an Orc Bully counts as an Orc unit, which means that if destroyed it would cause Panic tests in Orc units, which is a bad thing.

no it does not imply that. it would imply that if the rule didn't specify war machines crewed by an orc bully. by specifying, they are clarifying that even though the crew is a goblin crew, they don't take panic tests caused by goblins if they have a bully.

see the fear elves rule. it says to count all orcs and squigs in addition to the goblins to determine if the goblins have enough numbers to overcome their fear. this implies that having a single orc in a unit of goblins doesn't change the unit from being a unit of goblins.

Rafi
11-07-2010, 19:26
Eh, I'd rather not try to argue that the destruction of 'a war machine crewed by an Orc Bully' would not cause a Panic check in another 'war machine crewed by an Orc Bully' because they are actually crewed by Goblins and can ignore Panic checks caused by Goblins.
'I destroyed your Rock Lobba sitting 1" away from your other Rock Lobba. Panic check.'
'Sorry, it has an Orc Bully.'
'Didn't the other one also?'
'Yes.'
'So the units are identical.'
'Yes.'
'But they don't cause Panic checks on each other?'
'No. They are war machines crewed by Orc Bullies but their crew are Goblins.'
'Wut?'
Seems like a difficult position to take.

Urgat
11-07-2010, 20:51
The thing about champions is that you have to SPECIFICALLY allocate attacks against him. Otherwise he is safe.

You have to because you always have the possibility to attack something else and by default you attack regular troops. If for some reason you could only attack the champion (you clip and he's iÁn a corner), you wouldn't have a choice. But... her... allow me to ask... so what? :confused:

TMATK
11-07-2010, 23:13
.. as for fanatics, well, mind you, they did adress the panic deal, they do make nearby gobs panic if they trip on some rubble. Yeap, one more reason for me not to bother with them anymore.


Where in the FAQ is this addressed, I don't see it.

Thanks

Gen.RifulasDykes
11-07-2010, 23:14
Skarsnik issue made me wonder a lot too, since I run a Night Gobbo theme army and he's my primary generally, as a monstrous beast, is there any unit he can safely hide in now and get look out sir..? :< And is his Stomp at Gobbla's S6 or Skarsniks S5..? I'm guessing Skarsnik but eh, Gobbla might be the one doing the stomping! :p

Nkari
12-07-2010, 00:25
Query..

Check the "hand of gork spell"(pg40) (in the english books), compare it to the Waagh(PG41) spell..

Waagh is missing " it can see "..

So this leads me to belive that the following is true when it comes to Waagh..

Provided the friendly unit sees _any_ enemys, it will move 2D6 towards the closest enemy unit, REGARDLESS of LoS..

Am I correct in this assumption?

Reason I ask is that the missing pice of text, is in the middle of a sentence, so it should not be a copy paste error, but the "spirit" of the rules seems to intend it to be there..

Ill be a happy greenskin player if its my interpretation, but I wont cry if its not.. (allways played it in our grp as needed LOS to the unit.. but it seems we have been playing it wrong..)

Gen.RifulasDykes
12-07-2010, 00:36
Query..

Check the "hand of gork spell"(pg40) (in the english books), compare it to the Waagh(PG41) spell..

Waagh is missing " it can see "..

You are both right and wrong. It does say the unit will move towards the nearest enemy unit, without stating the "it can see" part. HOWEVER, it also states right after that "if it can see no enemy unit it moves 2D6" directly forwards" This would imply that you do need LOS when checking if there is an enemy unit nearby, to me at least.

Nkari
12-07-2010, 00:42
Yes.. if it can see NO enemy unit it moves forward.. but if it sees one lowly enemy warmachine crew 100 inches away.. and have a enemy flank out of LOS 3" away.. it will turn around and move into the enemy flank, rather than running towards the ppl it actually sees (100 inches away)

Gen.RifulasDykes
12-07-2010, 02:42
Ahhhh.. I see what you mean now. Interesting that, then yes it would turn to try and assault said unit. Annoying.. what if there is an impassable wall between the Greenskin unit and said nearby unit? That would suck majorly.. as they would still turn to try and move towards it under that wording ._.

Rogzor87
12-07-2010, 03:04
another question though it pertains to multiple armies but I am using it in regards to OnG....

Spear chukka's say 2 per slot... does that still work with 8th edition? you can only have 3x of the same special in <3000pnts. So does that mean they can have 6 or just 3?

Swoop
12-07-2010, 03:28
Rogzor - page 135 brb, 1-2 choices count as a single choice.

Swoop!

Fredmans
14-07-2010, 09:37
A FAQ-related question: Bash'em ladz was amendended to Always strikes first + re-roll, Waaagh was not, although the wording of the spells were identical.

I suspect it to be a mistake, or am I missing something?

/Fredmans

Little Joe
17-07-2010, 21:01
I have a few questions referring to Skarsnik.

1. He now has Montrous Beast as unit type and cannot join any units of infantry. As a character I read the rules that he cannot join units of Monsters(Trolls) since he would be in danger of getting crushed. Am I correct in assuming that the only units he can join are those consisting of other characters being Monstrous Cavalry(Goblin Bosses on Gigantic Spiders)?

2. Is he himself Monstrous Cavalry? At least giving him a 5+ Armour Save.

3. Would a unit of 5+ Trolls give him "Look Out Sir!" if within 3"?

4. Can Characters give another Character "Look Out Sir!" if he could join a unit of Bosses on Gigantic Spiders? (Hypothetically of course, a unit of five doesn't cost many points but a lot of cash and I only have two anyhow.)

Thanks in advance for helping out

PS I refuse to let him walk around alone and have put him in a unit of 70 NG Spearmen, though without "Look Out Sir!" of course.

Morty
17-07-2010, 21:14
OK hears an odd one for you lot...........
under the O&G Waargh magic p39 it says under the miscast result 12 that the caster taps into too much power and the spell goes off with Total power. with the new rules stating that the spell goes off and THEN check for what the miscast does. Do'es this mean that the spell goes off TWICE!!!?? Since youve ALREADY cast the spell with total power anyway and thats why you are now roling on the miscast table.

Lord Zarkov
17-07-2010, 22:00
I have a few questions referring to Skarsnik.

1. He now has Montrous Beast as unit type and cannot join any units of infantry. As a character I read the rules that he cannot join units of Monsters(Trolls) since he would be in danger of getting crushed. Am I correct in assuming that the only units he can join are those consisting of other characters being Monstrous Cavalry(Goblin Bosses on Gigantic Spiders)?

2. Is he himself Monstrous Cavalry? At least giving him a 5+ Armour Save.

3. Would a unit of 5+ Trolls give him "Look Out Sir!" if within 3"?

4. Can Characters give another Character "Look Out Sir!" if he could join a unit of Bosses on Gigantic Spiders? (Hypothetically of course, a unit of five doesn't cost many points but a lot of cash and I only have two anyhow.)

Thanks in advance for helping out

PS I refuse to let him walk around alone and have put him in a unit of 70 NG Spearmen, though without "Look Out Sir!" of course.

1)
Monstrous Beasts =/= Monsters
Skarsnik is prefectly capably of joining infantry, just he won't get Look Out Sir! and can also be picked out.
Also characters can join Trolls since they're Monstrous Beasts
2)
No, he's a Monstrous Beast
3)
Yes (4+), or 2+ if he is in the unit
4)
Only Rank & File models can give LOS! so no. Also Skarsnik can still be picked out if in a unit of Giant Spider riders since they're not Monstrous Beasts when ridden.

@Morty
Appears so!

Nighthawke
17-07-2010, 22:19
OK hears an odd one for you lot...........
under the O&G Waargh magic p39 it says under the miscast result 12 that the caster taps into too much power and the spell goes off with Total power. with the new rules stating that the spell goes off and THEN check for what the miscast does. Do'es this mean that the spell goes off TWICE!!!?? Since youve ALREADY cast the spell with total power anyway and thats why you are now roling on the miscast table.

but it would go off with irresistable force again so youd resolve the spell then look at the table to make it go off again, its never ending :O so i think just play it as normal :)

Morty
18-07-2010, 09:10
It does say to roll on the table again but rerolling further 12's so it's not infinate just doubling :)

Little Joe
18-07-2010, 10:15
[QUOTE=Lord Zarkov;4831600]1)
Monstrous Beasts =/= Monsters
Skarsnik is prefectly capably of joining infantry, just he won't get Look Out Sir! and can also be picked out.

In the rulebook page 97 (characters) it says: "Similarly a character that itself is a monster or riding a monster or chariot cannot join other units - it's just to dangerous for the members of the unit in question".
Which to me sadly means Skarsnik cannot join NG infantry, why should he be able to join them still?

And thanks for the reply.

Braad
31-07-2010, 10:42
Just to add, there's an update to the FAQ that says goblin fanatics do not cause panic when they die.

T10
31-07-2010, 14:49
Snotlings are swarms, but are they skirmish?



I'm not basing these on anything other than what I see as common sense.

(...)
3. As long as swarms have the skirmish rule then yes, snotlings would skirmish. Unfortunately the rules indicate that they are not unbreakable like other swarms, and are still stubborn Ld 4...


Snotlings are now Swarms. This means they are Skirmishers, Unbreakable and Unstable. They are also Stubborn (which is made entirely redundant by them also being Unbreakable) and Immune to Psychology (which is also covered by Unbreakable).


The only reference I've found to units moving with the slowest move value within them is int eh characters section, but Swiftstride, I believe, expressly states "units containing models who all have swiftstride" or something to that effect. Don't have the book on me to give an actual quote, but I had this same question, and that's what sold me on it.

This is correct. The entire unit must be made up of models with the Swiftstride rule in order.

-T10