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View Full Version : Daemonic Icons = Magic Standards = 1 Per Army?



Kalandros
11-07-2010, 01:03
So the Errata decided to go back on this and change it to "Icons are Magic standards"...

so you can't have Icon of Endless War on 3 different blocks of 'letters now? O:

nzdarkelf
11-07-2010, 01:58
That will probably be the case.

Bodysnatcher
11-07-2010, 09:59
But the daemon book allows multiples.

Cambion Daystar
11-07-2010, 10:17
Daemon armybook explicitly allows multiples of the same icon

Kalandros
11-07-2010, 11:23
that,ll teach me not to read it properly ;D

solkan
11-07-2010, 18:14
Where does the Daemon book explicitly allow multiples of the icons?

Cambion Daystar
11-07-2010, 18:53
Check p 92, second sentence.
Ok, it is not explicitly mentioned, but implicitly.

Also, they are not magic items -> not limited to 1 per army

solkan
11-07-2010, 19:35
Page 92 says that Daemonic Gifts are not magic items. The new errata says that the Daemonic Icons are magic standards.

How does implying that Daemonic Icons aren't magic items help against the PDF expicitly saying that the book has been retroactively changed to say that they're a type of magic item?

Bodysnatcher
11-07-2010, 19:53
Although if you read the army list, Daemon icons are taken like a unit upgrade - like a command model, rather than a magic standard.
I will put this down to them intending the banners to behave like magic standards but not being able to write the FAQs properly. It's simply unacceptable to be limited to a maximum of 2 banners in a monogod army when before there was no limit.

solkan
11-07-2010, 20:11
The fact that the banners are being taken as upgrades for the standard bearer doesn't stop them being magic items, and subject to the army list restrictions on magic items.

Whether or not the errata nerfs a monotheist army list doesn't sway the argument.

minionboy
11-07-2010, 20:17
The fact that the banners are being taken as upgrades for the standard bearer doesn't stop them being magic items, and subject to the army list restrictions on magic items.

Whether or not the errata nerfs a monotheist army list doesn't sway the argument.

Unit upgrades that happen to be magic aren't restricted to 1 per army, the Skaven book makes use of it frequently as well.

solkan
11-07-2010, 20:43
Unit upgrades that happen to be magic aren't restricted to 1 per army, the Skaven book makes use of it frequently as well.

The sentence "Magic items are considered to be unique - you can only have one of each in your army unless otherwise stated in the magic item's rules." on page 500 conflicts with your observation. The statement is not made in the context of characters choosing items. Instead, the rulebook states that this is in addition to any restrictions noted in the relevant army books, so if 7th edition Skaven armies relied on taking multiples of common magic items, they're just as out of luck as duplicate banner Daemon armies.

Bodysnatcher
11-07-2010, 20:55
They might be magic standards, but that doesn't make them magic items. They're still daemonic and those over-ride.

Tae
11-07-2010, 21:33
They might be magic standards, but that doesn't make them magic items. They're still daemonic and those over-ride.

Unfortunately that's just wishful thinking.

p.500

Magic items are divided into the following catagories: Magic Weapons, Magic Armour, Talismans, Enchanted Items, Arcanse items and Magic Standards

And there's nothing in the DoC book that overrides the limitations within the BRB about magic items being unique to each army - since the reference to 'not being magic items' refers only to Daemonic Gifts, not Daemonic Icons.

Now I appreciate this was probably not the intention of the errata, however this is what they've done.

Cambion Daystar
11-07-2010, 21:35
This is about the final drop for me.
My mono-nurgle daemons go back on the shelves, seeing as they have become rather unplayable.

Kalandros
11-07-2010, 23:10
So was I right or wrong.. huh?

I'm confused now.. D:

stripsteak
11-07-2010, 23:34
Unit upgrades that happen to be magic aren't restricted to 1 per army, the Skaven book makes use of it frequently as well.


The sentence "Magic items are considered to be unique - you can only have one of each in your army unless otherwise stated in the magic item's rules." on page 500 conflicts with your observation. The statement is not made in the context of characters choosing items. Instead, the rulebook states that this is in addition to any restrictions noted in the relevant army books, so if 7th edition Skaven armies relied on taking multiples of common magic items, they're just as out of luck as duplicate banner Daemon armies.

Skaven have specific allowance (in the new faqs) for certain models taking multiple copies of magic items.

PeG
12-07-2010, 06:29
Dont bet on it. This was a mess already in the previous FAQ and the new one doesnt necessarily change anything. My guess would be that they actually intend to have them as 1 / army only but due to history in the case it sould be good if they could be really clear about it.

quote from previous FAQ:

Q. Should Daemonic Icons be treated like magic items?
A. Yes, they are magic items in all respects, with caveats listed on page 92.
Remember that gifts may be taken more than once any army.

Bodysnatcher
12-07-2010, 16:29
Dont bet on it. This was a mess already in the previous FAQ and the new one doesnt necessarily change anything. My guess would be that they actually intend to have them as 1 / army only but due to history in the case it sould be good if they could be really clear about it.

quote from previous FAQ:

Q. Should Daemonic Icons be treated like magic items?
A. Yes, they are magic items in all respects, with caveats listed on page 92.
Remember that gifts may be taken more than once any army.

It would be fine if they were one per army if you had more than 2 to choose from. At the moment it's just daft.

PeG
12-07-2010, 17:06
which I also agree with especially since you have at least two unit types that can take these two types of banners. Finally it seems like daemons have taken enough of a hit with 8th ed anyway. Personally I would miss facing them on the field.

jamano
12-07-2010, 17:11
Some armies can barely take any magic banners at all :( now you just have to choose between 8

Korraz
12-07-2010, 17:18
Chaos Daemons weren't intended to work mono-god with this book.

Bodysnatcher
12-07-2010, 17:27
Chaos Daemons weren't intended to work mono-god with this book.

Why not? It did work until they screwed it up with the latest FAQ.

Lord Zarkov
12-07-2010, 17:37
In the same way that if you only play Mono-God you only have three types of unit and two types of character, it does appear that you can only use two banners.
You are however only using 1/4 of the list, so it's not really surprising - using the full list you have a more healthy 8 banners + the BSB ones, which is more inline with other armies.

Korraz
12-07-2010, 19:46
You could, but it simply wasn't the thing they had in mind when they wrote the book. You could play a Moulder-Clan Army only, but it's simply not the way they wrote it to work "properly"*

*Of course they made it possible to play theme armies. That's whats great about the new books, the theme most of the times is playable. But the main intention is to make the list as a whole to work.

solkan
13-07-2010, 17:35
Dont bet on it. This was a mess already in the previous FAQ and the new one doesnt necessarily change anything. My guess would be that they actually intend to have them as 1 / army only but due to history in the case it sould be good if they could be really clear about it.

quote from previous FAQ:

Q. Should Daemonic Icons be treated like magic items?
A. Yes, they are magic items in all respects, with caveats listed on page 92.
Remember that gifts may be taken more than once any army.

Of course, that was the 7th edition FAQ, back when multiple copies of magic items were allowed for everyone.

If they were magic items that you could take multiples of, my guess is that they would have included it in the 8th edition FAQ's.