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HeroFox
11-07-2010, 02:52
Knights are still good because they can form ranks of 3 and get good damage output because of the entire Lance gets to fight as if they're in base contact. This arguably makes Knights of the Realm one of the most decently priced riders in the whole game.

Pegasus Knights get flying, skirmishing weird line-up rules.. but they can now stomp for good measure.

Trebuchets are still S5 and S10 in the book and they get no partials now.

Life and Beasts are both great lores to benefit the many characters that Bretonnians, plus the Fey Enchantress is a beast in the magic phase.

Peasant Archers are still dirt cheap and got many buffs with the new shooting rules. You can take a block of 30 with flaming arrows for as low as 190 points!

The characters that Bretonninans can make kinda makes them the Space Wolves of Fantasy. Heroic Killing Blow for Virtue of Heroism means you can 1-shot a T10 W10 Steam Tank or a Hell Pit Abomination!

OK, a native son of Bretonnia take it away. I'm just an High Elf that's sad because there's no Bretonninan 8th Ed. Tactica.

Mudkip
11-07-2010, 02:57
I think a good idea in 8th will be the Peasant Sea Guard. A big block of 30-40 archers ranked up 5-wide (rounding up means 3 out of 5 achers get to shoot in the back ranks) providing ranks to your knights.

If you take 2-3 units of those alongside some trebuchets you suddenly have some decent firepower that forces the enemy to come to you, in addition to ranked infantry where necessary for negating steadfast. The best thing is that they even come with "fences" now (stakes) so they get cover from enemy shooting.

wearthefoxhat
11-07-2010, 03:04
The potential of Transformation of Kadon has me salivating. Both Beasts and Life are pretty solid lists.

I am still unsure about Pegasus Knights. I will have to give them a whirl.

HeroFox
11-07-2010, 03:06
The potential of Transformation of Kadon has me salivating. Both Beasts and Life are pretty solid lists.

I am still unsure about Pegasus Knights. I will have to give them a whirl.

The thing about Pegasus Knights is that they're still amazing harassment units.

They are also counted as Fast Cav now so they have Vanguard! Vanguard march literally puts you in charge range of the enemy flanks/rear/warmachines on your 2nd turn.

A must have in any Bret army imo.

Tenken
11-07-2010, 03:10
Also now with stakes counting as fences, which are awesome, gives archers way more survivability.

Also putting a token damsel in many units of knights might be a legitimate strategy. They give them all MR (1), which stacks with the blessing, and you can just give them the base spell from beasts as it's really useful for brets (hell str 7 KE).

I think I'll pry be taking a level 4 prophetess every game with lore of life. Hopefully rolling up throne of vines, the bring em back to life spell, shield of thorns and flesh to stone. Though I wouldn't complain about getting dweller, as long as she gets throne every game (which is pretty likely with doubles being pick the spells). Lore of life is SUPER good for brets though.... well it's super good for everyone. Overall I think it's the winner as far as the new lores are concerned, and brets are fortunate to have it.

Only thing that's kind of iffy is yeomen. I mean now you can actually take them and not worry about them using up a precious special slot, but I just feel like they don't bring enough to the party that isn't brought elsewhere.

The other big question mark is hippogryphs (and leoun). Since now we KNOW that the grail shield doesn't give your hippo a 4+ WS it's kind of questionable whether they'd be worthwhile.

Overall I think the edition will be good to brets. They'll have to learn to play differently, but they aren't getting hit with the nerf bat or anything. It's just gunna change how they play.

Mudkip
11-07-2010, 03:14
I'd even go as far as saying that Archers should replace Men at Arms as infantry blocks.

Tenken
11-07-2010, 03:16
I'd even go as far as saying that Archers should replace Men at Arms as infantry blocks.

M@A are still useful for mobility and halberds. Remember that if they move archers lose their stakes (I think still? not sure what with them counting as fences). Plus M@A with the blessing save + flesh to stone = infinite tarpit.:eek: with some teeth thanks to halberds. For only 5 points a piece expect to see some infantry envy.:D

Mudkip
11-07-2010, 03:20
They certainly aren't useless anymore. I'll run a unit of M@A myself since I'm building up my army with batallion boxes. But I think with archers the more of them you take the better they get, because you could really scare the opponent into attacking your lines asap with all those bows.

HeroFox
11-07-2010, 03:20
I'd even go as far as saying that Archers should replace Men at Arms as infantry blocks.

I agree with this 100%.

Who cares about Stakes? A ton of shots with Longbows and flaming arrows is where it's at. That, and the fact they're dirt cheap and have stand and shoot as an option.

herald of kairos
11-07-2010, 07:00
this works to and will be a regular in my bret lists from now on.
Level 4 prophet with life,prayer icon and 50 men at arms.
hopefully role 1+3 on life and swap for signature spell meaning 50 T7 warriors with s4 attacks x3 ranks regen and 5up ward in combat=nasty drawn out combats for my opponents to endure with my unit potentially standing back up:evilgrin:.
needless to say these will be finding there way onto my gaming board and into as many s5 creatures i can find.

Bitten Black Sheep
11-07-2010, 10:06
Just my thoughts, practice games are required to see what works and what doesn't v various opponents and armies.

Magic resistance stacking with the blessing should be great protection from spells.
A couple of beasts Level 1 riding with the knights provides a lot of protection and a good unit buff. I do like the idea of S4 T4 knights. Taking 2 should help get a spell through as well. Unfortunately the base spell for life is not as useful.

Although hordes or large units of archers sound good, I think they will attract war machines and spells. It might be better to have three small units ratrher than one large one. They can shoot a few more arrows, select different targets and are not worth the attention of the opposition. The skirmishers can sit in a wood, -2 to hit, whilst the regular guys sit behind a fence (hopefully in a wood as well) or even better in a building. They can cause a lot of distraction.

M@A could be good anvils but the points sure start to add up and they are fragile.

Peggies have had a huge upgrade and will be excellent at taking out war machines in turn one or two, march blocking and then making support attacks to flank and rear to stop the enemy reforming.

Our long charges make redirection very useful to.
There are some great cheap banners for KoR - MR, 1" movement, Flaming attacks as well as Chalon, Twilight which all enhance our knights in attack or movement or defence.

The reform after combat could be very beneficial. Go for the weaker support troops on the flanks, hopefully do what Brets do best, and then reform to threaten the flank of the main units whilst holding a lance in reserve to threaten the front of the main unit.

Nasty characters and monsters? - Heroic killing blow. Lances of kinghts are not bad either.

Big weakness? Low initiative. We have to weather attacks first in most cases so we will be taking casualties. Other weakness - a stalled charge. Hence go for the smaller and more vulnerable units first while the treb and arrows whittle down the main units.

As I say -it all needs playtesting. Other armies have changed too. Overall, I'm hopeful of a bit more success with Brets in 8th -- but I still don't think they will be as powerful as they were in 5th relative to other armies. They will however, be the premiere cavalry army once more, like they should be.

Walls
11-07-2010, 18:33
Any thoughts on knight only armies? I am sold on the effectiveness of peasanet levies, for sure... not sure I want any theme wise though.

Then again, maybe I do! I dunno! Maybe like one block of each, a trebuchet and a reliquae just to fill things out.

HeroFox
11-07-2010, 18:47
A block of Peasants and Archers (like 30 of each) and then fill the rest in with Knights.

2x Trebs, always.

Walls
11-07-2010, 19:02
Here's a thought/question that hopefully some of you can answer.

What's the best length for a unit of Knights now? 3 ranks seems too little almost. Even multiple charges, you're gonna get steadfast against you. going 4 ranks, you can tie or beat, especially with a multiple charge doing enough damage.

My other thought is you can reform after the first round.

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this. Cav took such a big hit in 8th not being able to easily break units.

Tenken
11-07-2010, 19:55
I think the best unit size for knights now might be the full 15. That's 5 ranks, more than enough to break almost any steadfast. Plus after the first round you could reform to 5x3 for more attacks (or just stay in lance, so you take less attacks). I think the moniker of 8th is going to be go big or go home, cav is no exception.

Glabro
11-07-2010, 22:39
Yep, 15 strong is good, I think.

Walls
11-07-2010, 22:42
Not worried about the giant flank or is the game and charging too fast to even need worry?

TheSaxon
12-07-2010, 01:07
horde units of men at arms with the prayer icon make my mouth water. you could take 50 with full command for less than 300 points, which means that A) they are very formidable, and B) they're still very expendable, while being very hard to take out >=D (no half points tyvm).

archers with stakes has been covered, sufficed to say, they're sick...

I'm also taking a level 4 prophetess with lore of beasts and 2 level 2 damsels with lore of life at 2.5k points. My opponent can either dispel my army wide buffs or some pretty hefty damage, including (hopefully) a nasty transforming prophetess >=D.

I also see the new army composition percentages as a buff for us, since we can build some truly awesome characters.

oh by the way, knights and lance formation are still as kickass as ever.

downside? if you think of any let me know.

herald of kairos
12-07-2010, 01:41
Considering we have a 2+ save basic i see no reason for people to be judging us as a low tier army for low I i mean how fast could you move in that much armour honestly.
As for Knights Full 15 men knights block are unbelivable on the charge, which is fairly far especially if that unit happens to have bsb with impetous virtue and banner of swiftness hell throw in the rangers standard for a unit that kicks butt with a whooping 12-27 inch charge range that ignores terrain.
all in all i see us being a high tier army this ed

Deathwing
12-07-2010, 01:56
I don't think 15 knights is the way to go.

Why? Well once people figure out that cannons, stonethrowers and other war machines (especially with templates) are awesome, those big blocks of knights are going to be annihilated in short order. Plus it's a pain in the butt to move something like that around.

I would favour the MSU strategy still, with several blocks of 6-7 knights. A cannon/stonethrower/bolt thrower/flame cannon/etc. won't utterly decimate that unit if it gets hit (well maybe the flame cannon will) and they can shrug off most small arms rather easily. If one lance gets annihlated, you've still got 3-4 of similar strength and ability you can use. If you couple this with a pegasus lord so you have multiple pegasus knight units, it makes shooting even more difficult for your opponent as those pegasus knights will make short work of warmachine crews starting turn 2.

It does of course mean that you can't just charge willy-nilly into the enemy and you will depend on your peasant archers and trebuchets to remove ranks (and steadfast) before your heroic knightly charge. I figure double trebuchets will be mandatory for rank removal (especially if the trend is to use gigantic blocks of troops) and maybe even double prophetess' (i.e. hit those big units with a spell like Dweller From Below).

Games for the Brets will be won in turns 3+ now rather than turns 2+ I think.

Arkh
12-07-2010, 02:36
I've been running 100 MaA in my Bretonnians for years and in that sense I am certainly happy about the changes to infantry in 8th. And yes, the change to the archers makes them the best archers for the points in the game, hands down.

Most of the impressions I have had about my Bretonnians have been addressed except for this idea that I had.

2 units of 9 KotR. 3 vanilla Paladins in the front rank of each with lance + shield. One of the two has a lvl 4 prophetess for casting the pumped up versions of Savage Beast of Horros & Pann's Impenetrable Pelt. Then you also have the lvl 0 spell, Wildform, for good measure.... I hear 6 paladins each gaining +3 Attacks, +3 Strength, & +3 Toughness is good. Nothing quite like outputting 36 S9 attacks just from the heroes of the units on the charge.

THEN... since the prophetess has taken 4 of the Lore of Beast spells, the lvl 2 damsel that is on foot with the prayer icon in the unit of 50 MaA can reliably get the lvl 6 spell (since you can't have duplicate spells present in an army) and can be used as an ace in the hole to throw 6 dice at and hopefully irresistable into a dragon after dumping the blessing on the huge MaA unit.

And of course all of this should be backed up by 2 trebs, lots of archers, peg knights (though I don't use them out because of the theme of my army), etc...

TheSaxon
12-07-2010, 03:08
So far i've found stone throwers to be very weak against knight blocks. sure, the guy under the hole is probably going to die, but the others will be hit on strength 3 by most armies (4+) which still gives us our 2+ save.

the most damage i've suffered is versus a dwarf gunline (i know, surprising =P), but I still haven't had a problem getting into combat turn 2 and decimating the enemy line.

herald of kairos
12-07-2010, 05:01
whats do you guys think about grail religuae and battle pilgrims in this ed are they worth it this ed compared to men at arms.

Tenken
12-07-2010, 06:27
whats do you guys think about grail religuae and battle pilgrims in this ed are they worth it this ed compared to men at arms.

Maybe in large games. They're still a super tar pit because they have a 5+ ward in combat, 4+ vs str 5 +. (I think? not sure how parry/blessing work together) Unfortunately the deep base of the reliquae, which was a boon in the previous edition, is more of a hindrance this addition (as it reduces the number of attacks put out by the unit). Really the only real reason to take them is fluff reasons, otherwise M@A are pretty much universally better.

Arkh
12-07-2010, 12:51
whats do you guys think about grail religuae and battle pilgrims in this ed are they worth it this ed compared to men at arms.

I've never not included a unit of grail reliquae in my army until now. I think they are not worth it at all in 8th.

willowdark
12-07-2010, 14:04
Could you elaborate on that. With Autobreak from Fear gone in this edition I thought the exact opposite, that the Grail Relique was finally worth taking.

I know M@A _can_ be Stubborn now, but I'd think the reliability of the Relique would be pretty valuable, expecially for setting up flank charges.

TheSaxon
12-07-2010, 14:29
It can be a worthwhile unit, but if let's say you wanted to take the Reliquae with as 5 deep 5 wide (an extra 13 pilgrims).

For that cost, you could get 41 Men at Arms with full command.

I leave it to you to decide which is more useful, but for me, the only reason to include the Reliquae seems to be cosmetic (which for me is a valid reason to include it, but not in a competetive list).

Maarten K
12-07-2010, 14:35
as a flankguard the relic is much more reliable than a block of M@A. They have LD 8 of their own, so don't need babysitting by knights. They will keep their stubborn even if reduced till almost no ranks, and you can form them up in longer lines because you are not dependent on ranks for your stubborn. I plan to use them as such, interesting to see how they work.

willowdark
12-07-2010, 14:53
I'm skeptical about infantry units that have to compete for Stubborn. If you bring M@A with the intention of being stubborn and they take a few templates from magic and stone throwers turn 1, then suddenly find yourself up against a unit like Orcs that can have just as many ranks as you, if not more, but can kill more of you than you can of them, your investment is lost.

Whereas a Relique is just Stubborn, period.

Plus, it couldn't hurt to go into battle with both. Say the enmy focuses fire to kill the GR to a man, well, that's casualties your M@A didn't take, or vice versa.

TheSaxon
12-07-2010, 14:56
You're approaching a unit of 40-50 M@A as if they aren't expendable. To me, they are still completely cannon fodder. If my opponent wants to spend the 2 turns of shooting he gets before my knights reach his lines shooting at peasants, then great! The only change is that now, if he elects to ignore then, they can actually prove to be a fairly significant thorn in his side.

Tenken
12-07-2010, 17:30
I'm skeptical about infantry units that have to compete for Stubborn. If you bring M@A with the intention of being stubborn and they take a few templates from magic and stone throwers turn 1, then suddenly find yourself up against a unit like Orcs that can have just as many ranks as you, if not more, but can kill more of you than you can of them, your investment is lost.

Whereas a Relique is just Stubborn, period.

Plus, it couldn't hurt to go into battle with both. Say the enmy focuses fire to kill the GR to a man, well, that's casualties your M@A didn't take, or vice versa.

Are you kidding? If your opponent is throwing warmachines and spells at your M@A they're doing their job, which is to take the heat off the knights. I'd be jumping for joy if my opponent shot his cannon at my M@A. Screw steadfast, they can die for all I care, their job is to draw fire, and hopefully last in combat just long enough for the knights to set up a flank/rear charge.

willowdark
12-07-2010, 18:09
Both of you are making good points, except that the original point is to be stubborn.

If their job is to be Steadfast, then if they get shot to bits they are explicitly not doing their job.

Drawing fire from your buses is all well and good, but in a game where combats last longer than the first turn charge you'll need stubborn units to make sure you don't suffer flank charges.

In the second round of combat M@A will deal out a lot more damage than your buses, so I'd imagine that smart players will make the M@A their turn 1 priority because your knights will need them as an anvil.

And you haven't adressed my comment that having both M@A and a GR will allow you to spread the Stubborn around to hold the line in multiple spots, or at least guarantee that you'll have some Stubborn capacity if one unit does get shot off the board.

TheSaxon
12-07-2010, 22:50
I personally wouldn't be opposed to running both a block of M@A and a GR. I think it's a strategy that would be both daunting and effective.

What I love about 8th edition is that it opens up these kinds of options for us =D

Mudkip
12-07-2010, 23:06
they have a 5+ ward in combat, 4+ vs str 5 +. (I think? not sure how parry/blessing work together)

Ward saves don't stack I'm afraid, the parry save for hand weapon and shield is useless on Battle Pilgrims.


I know M@A _can_ be Stubborn now, but I'd think the reliability of the Relique would be pretty valuable, expecially for setting up flank charges.

Battle Pilgrims are more reliable for holding the enemy since they don't rely on ranks for stubborn, but on the other hand a big block of M@A serves the dual purpose of denying Steadfast to the opponent as well, so that when the knights charge in they can actually rout the enemy unit. Battle Pilgrims aren't great for that at 9 pts per model.


I'm skeptical about infantry units that have to compete for Stubborn. If you bring M@A with the intention of being stubborn and they take a few templates from magic and stone throwers turn 1, then suddenly find yourself up against a unit like Orcs that can have just as many ranks as you, if not more, but can kill more of you than you can of them, your investment is lost.
True but you can make up for it by shooting the opponent back.

Arkh
12-07-2010, 23:22
I will probably still end up running my Grail Reliquae on occasion, but at this point here are my irritations with them.

A. You have to take the grail vow on a character or take a unit of grail knights, neither of which I tend to do.

B. They lost 1 point of save this edition due to the change to parry.

C. The extra attacks supplied by the supporting attack rule nerfs the advantage of the center Reliquae.

D. A unit of 50 MaA with the prayer icon just seems more useful for the points.

Had parry stacked with ward saves then yes, I'd be all about using them.

Glabro
12-07-2010, 23:49
I don't think 15 knights is the way to go.

Why? Well once people figure out that cannons, stonethrowers and other war machines (especially with templates) are awesome, those big blocks of knights are going to be annihilated in short order. Plus it's a pain in the butt to move something like that around.

Disagreed; the cannonball will be stopped by either rolling a 1 to wound or on the 5+ blessing before it goes through all ranks. The Stone Thrower no longer ignores saves except with the central hit, so that's 1 kill - and it really doesn't matter whether you're 3 deep or 5 for the are hit.



I would favour the MSU strategy still, with several blocks of 6-7 knights. A cannon/stonethrower/bolt thrower/flame cannon/etc. won't utterly decimate that unit if it gets hit (well maybe the flame cannon will) and they can shrug off most small arms rather easily. If one lance gets annihlated, you've still got 3-4 of similar strength and ability you can use. If you couple this with a pegasus lord so you have multiple pegasus knight units, it makes shooting even more difficult for your opponent as those pegasus knights will make short work of warmachine crews starting turn 2.

Now that knights can reform immediately following the charge, the reasons for going MSU for frontal charges are limited. If they can flank with 6 knights (which is unclear at this point), it still won't remove Steadfast - and since you have to make sure you have two ranks after casualties, you need to take 7-8 anyway.

I would allocate "target of opportunity" hunting for Pegasus Knights, sure. Probably a few archer units can be handy, but not mandatory. Trebuchets, of course, are.

Walls
13-07-2010, 01:39
So, you think going long is a good idea as well? Seems like you're giving up a giant flank, let alone barely fitting into a deployment zone.

Tenken
13-07-2010, 08:41
So, you think going long is a good idea as well? Seems like you're giving up a giant flank, let alone barely fitting into a deployment zone.

Yeah but with m8 if you're getting flank charged either you've made a huge tactical error (or at least want your opponent to think that, you clever dog) or something has gone terribly wrong. Even with the increased charge ranged brets should be able to pull off the charge more often than not. Also I'm thinking have 2-3 big knight units might be enough, especially if you have a life lore prophetess (because of regrowth). Maybe a couple of smaller 6-7 man support units, but having two or three dedicated hammers. This is just me thinking though, haven't played an 8th ed game yet.:cries:

Glabro
13-07-2010, 10:35
I'm sorry, the cannon is only stopped by monstrous units or monsters.

So it's a problem, but still, the ward helps. As do Pegasus Knights.

Hilte2
13-07-2010, 12:15
Hi,

Anyone thinking about the implications of the new miscast table? We picked up some sweet spells, but if damsels go into a unit, especially if buried in a lance, one miscast will nuke the whole unit, or near enough.

H2

Glabro
13-07-2010, 13:38
I think Bretonnians could take their chances with a single level 4 Prophetess. Stick to 2-3 dice per spell to minimize the chances.

TheSaxon
13-07-2010, 14:04
the way breaking a caster's concentration works, it's not viable to have only 1 high level caster, because your opponent can simply choose to throw 6 dispel dice at your first spell and your magic phase is over.

Malorian
13-07-2010, 14:07
the way breaking a caster's concentration works, it's not viable to have only 1 high level caster, because your opponent can simply choose to throw 6 dispel dice at your first spell and your magic phase is over.

That's not how it works.

That only happens when you fail to make the casting value.

TheSaxon
13-07-2010, 14:10
hmm...may need to reread that then...

Hilte2
13-07-2010, 14:43
Hi,

Another thing ot look at is the ranger banner - having a nice chunky knight unit that can roll through terrain with impunity sounds pretty tasty - especially given the liklihood that opponents are going to be using terrain to park / protect really annoying units.

H2

Glabro
13-07-2010, 22:48
There's also a common Arcane item to re-roll the Miscast table. Pretty handy for avoiding a meltdown.

Mudkip
13-07-2010, 23:08
Although it only lets you change one terrible result to another. I was going to use that item until I actually read the miscast table and thought, "why bother?".

It seems to me like the Lore of Life was designed with Bretonnians in mind, seeing as it contains a spell to restore our expensive models, nuke massive infantry units and avoid miscasts that would hurt us more than anybody since our Damsels are usually literally surrounded by knights.

Stonewyrm
14-07-2010, 00:19
Point 1)
I don't know maybe I got lucky but the miscasts I've had in 8th ed games didn't do as much as I expected. Neither myself nor my opponent lost a wizard due to miscast. A Lv 2 got turned into a non-mage but he survived to deny VPs. Neither of us lost more than 2 models per miscast.

Being Life mages helped, lost wounds were recovered next spell or next magic phase. Ward saves from my knights and from his Pheonix Guard helped too. Neither of us remembered to use the 2+ miscast protection from throne of vines. The rules are still to new too remember all of them. I don't think Damsels with Life need any miscast protection. Most likely a waste of points.

A lot of people think assassinating the opponents mages will be the name of the game in 8th. No mage = no magic phase and no bonus to dispel. With artillery and sniping magic getting a boost it's good to hide mages well. Middle of the 2nd rank of a decent lance of knights sounds like a safe spot to me. Now Damsels even have line of sight from the 2nd rank!! If you are casting normally, buffing units, healing chars, regrowing knights ect then just watch how many dice you throw. If you really want to throw 6 dice at dwellers then just leave the lance first.

Point 2)
Im not sold on Men-at-Arms with a prayer icon. Two reasons. Bowmen can do almost as much as M-at-A, for almost as cheap and have massive advantages. 30" S3 flaming arrows. 34 shots for a unit of 50. Plus stakes (fences). The second reason is this: How many Damsels are you taking? So how many Arcane items can you have? The icon is worth it's points no doubt when taken on a unit of 50 M-at-A. But on Bowmen it's worth even more. Is the icon worth missing out on a dispell scroll or a silver mirror? More than 2 Damsels starts to get real expensive (unless only Lv 2s). Have enough points left for Knights?

Point 3)
Good comments on Grail Reliquae. Both for and against. I say don't take too many, M-at-A can do big blocks cheaper. Use a small unit to anchor a flank without babysitter knights. Or use them to guard your rear and most of all your Trebs (2). Then they are good for their points.

Stonewyrm

Rolo Ramone
14-07-2010, 01:28
34 shot for a unit of 50? How? I think them in horde formation, but that is 25 shots (two ranks, half third). I am missing something?

Nighthawke
14-07-2010, 03:41
well you can get another 20 on that from the other two ranks behind for a total of 35 , i think thats right anyway

Mudkip
14-07-2010, 04:00
You'd get 35 shots in horde formation, and 34 shots if deployed 5-wide. The first two ranks can fire all their shots, and in every subsequent rank it's half rounding up, so a rank of 5 models would get 3 shots.

Glabro
14-07-2010, 07:40
Where did you read that was counted one rank at a time? That makes no sense. The rule says half the models in the remaining ranks get to fire, rounding up. That means if you have a total of 30 models in the "remaining" ranks, you get to fire 15 extra shots.

McBaine
14-07-2010, 08:41
I think I will take 3 Heroes and put them all in the front of a 12 Knights of the realm unit so that they can kill stuff at I5 and our Knights with I3 will be safe from enemy attacks as they
can only target the heroes.
So, they would be able to get out their attacks despite their low I value.
Of course the paladins had to be protected properly. A 1+ save for each of them seems a good start. I'm thinking Gromril great helm, dragon helm and enchanted shield, one of them getting the dawnstone the other the luckstone for more rerollable armour saves and then a Virtue of disdain so they won't panic that easy from shooting.

You think this would play out well ? I'm already sick of my charging knights getting killed by high I infantry before they can even strike. Remove from the back helds no advatage for us, so I have to think of other ways to get enemies down...

Stonewyrm
14-07-2010, 08:45
Yes that's right 35 shots in Horde and 34 shots in 5 wide 10 deep formation. Needless to say I recomend never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever putting them in Horde formation. Was that enough evers? You can't switch from Horde to 5x10 without losing your stakes so even if the last couple of ranks are out of range the first turn 5 wide and X deep is the way to go.

Stonewyrm

antman677
14-07-2010, 15:08
why is horde formation so bad? not enough ranks?

going 5 wide and 10 deep seems to invite easy flank charges

Stonewyrm
14-07-2010, 18:02
Horde formation does nothing for Bowmen. The extra CC attacks are weak compared to the loss of ranks and possible loss of steadfast. Horde will give you 30 x WS2 S3 attacks but only 4 ranks (drops to 3 after the first loss). 5 Wide gives you 10 x WS2 S3 attacks and 9 ranks (8 after the first loss). The difference between 8 ranks and 3 ranks is huge. Peasents are here to hold their ground not kill anything. That's what knights are for.

Who cares if you get flanked? Your still steadfast regardless as long as you have more ranks than your opponent. We have awsome flankers that can counter if and when our blocks get flanked. I let a block of 50 PB get flanked by a unit of 25 Pheonix Guard. They held and next round I sent a 9er Lance of Grail Knights in. Bye bye Pheonix Guard. Because my PB were involved in the combat the Pheonix guard didn't get Steadfast even though they had more ranks then my Grail Knights. They miffed their double ones and were run down.

Peasents are here to get and/or negate Steadfast. Don't try to hard to kill anything, they're not marauders. The only real difference between getting attacked in the front or the flank is +1 CR. So wherever you get attacked just make sure you have a nice big Lance waiting to counter.

Stonewyrm

P.S. Gratz on your first post

Malorian
14-07-2010, 18:58
Then again if you are running a peasant army a horde of archers can be a solid pick.

Likely you are going to take the lore of beasts and if you do and cast the +1 str and T on the archers they can all of a sudden do a tone of (unexpected) damage in combat.

(Not to mention their shooting bonus.)

Stonewyrm
14-07-2010, 19:06
Sure Malorian I can see that. If you are going mostly Peasents then they need to be able to kill as well as hold. I was assuming that most would still take Knights as hammers and grinders. If someone was to feild all (or almost all) peasents then the tactics and formations would have to be changed to account for the different set-up.

I would then say in a "combined arms force" the roles of the bowmen units are shooting and steadfast (at best behind stakes). To best fufill this role they should be in a 5 wide X deep formation.

Stonewyrm

herald of kairos
14-07-2010, 20:25
Right so most peasants have been discussed but so far what do you guys make of mounted yeomen so far i've seen them just run over and not worth their points compared to last ed where they were actually able to do something other than die.
anyway whats your guys opinion can they work?

Malorian
14-07-2010, 20:31
Vanguard up and take on war machines...

Speed bump...

Look funny...

Die...

:)


One advantage they have over a unit of 5 'throw-away' knights is that they don't cause panic.

ColShaw
14-07-2010, 20:31
I went mostly Peasants even in 6th and 7th Ed. 8th makes me happy for my dirty downtrodden folk. I am planning on combining some of my Bowmen into Horde formation, just to see how they do.

Mudkip
14-07-2010, 20:33
I think they basically do the same things Pegasus Knights do now, which is get a free move down the flank and go killing something vulnerable, but they cost less and aren't as good.

herald of kairos
14-07-2010, 22:03
Right whats your opinion on Bret Lord with wizarding hat possible or does Armour restrict me from casting spells just thought this a good way to get my second lvl 2 in along with a combat character but not sure if it works.
let us know what you think anyway.

Malorian
14-07-2010, 22:08
Right whats your opinion on Bret Lord with wizarding hat possible or does Armour restrict me from casting spells just thought this a good way to get my second lvl 2 in along with a combat character but not sure if it works.
let us know what you think anyway.

The lord can cast spells as he can normally take armor, but why do it in the first place?

Lore of beasts is already a solid lore and you can take a damsel for it that will give your lances MR and another attack (as a knight moves to the outside).

herald of kairos
14-07-2010, 22:38
ahh but this way i get access to lore of light and potentially i10 ws10 knights or ASF and still have a killy combat lord sure i'll give it a spin tomorrow and see how it goes.

DDogwood
15-07-2010, 01:42
The wizarding hat gives a random lore, doesn't it?

Tenken
15-07-2010, 03:41
The wizarding hat gives a random lore, doesn't it?

Yep. Wizard hat as I see it not really worth it for brets. We get access to, at least in my opinion, 2 of the BEST lores, especially for buffing, with our damsels/prophetesses already, and the fay enchantress can take any lore (and casts life at +6!!!). Plus bret heroes aren't incredible in the stats department, and can't take any virtues or magic items to help save their bacon if they take the hat.

Adman
15-07-2010, 03:52
Well one thing I'll be trying is a Lord with Virtue of Empathy and the Sword of the Quest in a big unit of Men at Arms. I wanted to run this before but I could never justify using my Lord slot for him. Now with percentages he's a viable character and would probably make a decent general in low points games.

I've got a couple of questions now.

Do you think that Questing Knights are now worth it seeing they get +2 Strength again?

Is taking a Lord on a Hippogryph viable?

Jadiel
15-07-2010, 07:40
Well one thing I'll be trying is a Lord with Virtue of Empathy and the Sword of the Quest in a big unit of Men at Arms. I wanted to run this before but I could never justify using my Lord slot for him. Now with percentages he's a viable character and would probably make a decent general in low points games.

Doesn't Virtue of Empathy prohibit that character from being the general? I don't have the AB to hand, so I might be mixing it up.

Lantern
15-07-2010, 10:36
One thing I'm noticing from all these tactiacl snippets is that most of them seem to be discussing entirely new areas for the Bretonnians, as though the old tried and tested methods need to be discarded in favour of magic and hordes. To me, it just gives us more options to add to our existing play book, and in fact some of the new rules help us pull off that most basic of Bretonnian moves - the rolling up of the enemy from the flanks.

I'm not sure how many of you remember the "Old Weirdes Tacticus" from White Dwarf (were talking about issue 170 odd). The basic outlay is, you deploy you cavalry from one flank to the next, with the strongest unit closest to the end/flank and the other units deployed to its side, going from strongest to weakest. Bretonnians own culture already arranges this for us in an easy to use heirarchy of Grail, Questing, Realm and Errant.
Starting with the Grail Knights, you charge the flank-most unit of the enemy one turn (by itself) and destroy it, using the new combat reform to point you Grail Knights at the next enemy along the flank. The following turn, your Grail Knights should charge this next unit, this time supported by the Questing Knights, the double charge again more than likely breaking the enemy unit. Again, both units combat reform towards the 3rd enemy unit on the flank and repeat the same move with the Knights of the Realm joining in , basically moving unit to unit and rolling up the enemy from the side.
One of the advantages to this tactic is that it helps to reduce the number of enemy units who can help thier friends as most armies deploy in this left to right fashion (barring war machines and other light units). If they enemy turns to face the units rolling up the flank, the other Bretonnian units (the ones who havent joined in yet) will have the enemy unit facing a flank charge anyway. Whilst this has always been a plan available to Bretonnians, the new combat reform makes it even easier to pull off than before.
BTW, if im picking the new rules up correctly, if you combat reform, you cannot pursue the enemy (its one or the other) so a unit of Pegasus Knights or Mounted Yeomen would be useful for hunting down the fleeing units.
This tactict is obviously not soley Bretonnian, but I just find it works well for us due to our own unit breakdown. High Elves could do the same with Dragon Princes, Reavers, Chariots etc, and even infantry based armies could do the same, albeit a little slower.
Anyway, my breakdown is a little rough, but thats the basic gist of the plan, and it play to the strengths Bretonnians have always (and still do) have.

ColShaw
15-07-2010, 13:30
Doesn't Virtue of Empathy prohibit that character from being the general? I don't have the AB to hand, so I might be mixing it up.

Nope. Being utterly unhinged, I actually went to a GT with a Bretonnian Lord on foot in 7th Ed... won 2 and drew 1 of 5 games, including Massacring a more "traditional" knight-heavy Bretonnian army. Priceless.

It just used to be useless, because in 7th Ed, being on a horse was both fewer points AND better protection. I don't think anyone but I ever used VoE on a Lord prior to 8th. Because it was actively bad. But fun. :)

antman677
15-07-2010, 15:51
I'm not sure how many of you remember the "Old Weirdes Tacticus" from White Dwarf (were talking about issue 170 odd).

Wow thats a great tactic. protecting your own flanks as you roll up the enemy's flank, ingenious! I'll be trying that with the Fey Enchantress...

The more I think about her the more I want to use her...getting the blessing w/o praying is huuuuuuge. getting first turn makes the old weirdes tacticus that much more effective...

and thanks stonewyrm for the welcome! :P

Blinder
15-07-2010, 17:28
So, I'm basically looking at "take two" here with my brets... sort-of started when they were re-released and then got knocked out of wargaming in general for a couple years so my force is still kind of formative (though I'm quite sad at the change in the battalion since then... +4 peasants doesn't quite make up for the sad-face -2 pegasi) and I'm wondering if I should re-think how I was planning to use some of my older knights. Specifically, the bunch I had figured on using as Errant... I like that they're 4 points cheaper and can deal with trading a point of WS and a point of Ld for ITP (that's the right abbreviation, yes?) on the charge. What worries me is that if I understand things right they now have to test Impetuous on anything within 20" meaning that they are now safely baited (rather than at least getting to eat whatever cheapo unit is used to draw them out of position). Has anyone been using these guys, and if so how have you been able to deal with people trying to pull your lines apart?

Also, more of a general rules question I guess but, just how does a unit add up opposing ranks for steadfast? Is it "my ranks" vs. "all enemy ranks combined," or is it "my ranks" vs. "ranks of largest enemy unit?" I understand the ideal would be to get a flank charge on any combat I can, but I'm wondering if I double-charge and both units are in the front arc will I out-rank the enemy if they end up with 4 total and I have, say, two units of 3 each? (somewhat applies here for "how far do I need to keep my knights spread out" I guess)

Lord of the End Times
15-07-2010, 17:29
Well, I'm planning on a huge wall of M@A interspersed with ranked bowmen with stakes in the centre. Two trebuchets behind them for protection, firing over the top (as I understand the LoS rules that is allowed although do feel free to correct me if not). All my knights will go on the flanks. My BSB will go in the centre, as will the general.
Very simple tactics, leave the peasant line in place, move out the knights on the flanks. Force them to advance on me through superior shooting, then try and hit them from the sides with the knights. No plan ever survives contact with the enemy as everyone knows but I'm hoping it might do ok.

antman677
15-07-2010, 18:01
Force them to advance on me through superior shooting, then try and hit them from the sides with the knights.

heres my take...the problem is that i dont think brets have superior shooting. played a game with empire and their warmachines killed me. those cannons and mortars will take out treb crews...

so i dont think we can rely on our shooting to set up our win condition...in this case, baiting the enemy into a flank charge by knights.

Awilla the Hun
15-07-2010, 22:09
I'll definitely be investing in even more peasants (50 man units, perhaps?) Now, this seems self advertising, and it is, but anyone who wants to read about peasants fighting in the new edition could do worse than reading my latest battle report...

Trains_Get_Robbed
16-07-2010, 02:15
Well, I'm offically apart of the Bret "gulid" Batallion on the way (:D). Has anyone tried running a Damsel/Encahtress on foot in a unit or perhaps in a unit of Yeomen in the new ed. is it survivable if so?

Deathwing
16-07-2010, 06:03
I'm with Lantern on the new rules adding additional strategies to what we already have.

Now we can do infantry horde in addition to MSU cavalry armies. I don't think the MSU cavalry army is obselete, it just has to play differently than in 6th or 7th.

You can still force your opponent to come to you in a way, with the new army building rules (no more 0-1 restrictions on Peg Knights & Grail Knights) if I am reading the FAQ correctly as it says to ignore pages 64 and 65). Field 3 units of pegasus knights to harry war machine crews and shooting units. With their new Stomp attack, I4 and super movement they should be able to deal with those units in short order and limit the amount of heavy fire headed towards your own knights. Should force your opponent to turn and face the pegasus knights or advance forward and try to bring your knights into combat while suffering fire from trebuchets and archers.

Of the scenarios, I think the mountain pass scenario will put us at a disadvantage though as it will be difficult to flank an army with such a narrow battlefield (at least getting to them won't be a problem).

Adman
16-07-2010, 06:23
I just had my first two games of 8th and my brets were fantastic. The first game was against Lizardmen at 1500 points. He had a slann, priest and a scar vet. Here are the standouts:

Level 3 Prophetess with lore of life on foot with a unit of 25 men at amrs. She was great, she got throne of vines, shield of thorns and flesh to stone. Casting throne straight away was awesome and then making units +4 toughness really helped against his temple guard. She was able to dispel heaps and basically nullified the Lizard's magic.

Paladin with Virtue of Heroism on a warhorse. He managed to take out the Scar Vet on the charge as well as a heap of other things. Not too pricey either for 120 points.

A unit of 9 Knights of the Realm with full command and a warbanner. This is the unit that the paladin sat in and it really was a steamroller. They broke a big unit of saurus on the charge then took a couple of turns to run down some other saurus who flanked them. Then they won the game by flanking the Slann in temple guard.

8 Knights Errant with a Paladin with BSB (birth-sword of carcassone). These guys were useful with their ITP and just as a solid charge unit that'll hold for a while.

The second game I had 1400 points so I dropped some bowmen and a knight of the realm and I was allied with 600 points of dwarves. We were up against 1000 points of Throgg's chaos trolls and 1000 points of Lizardmen. This game had the same standouts with the treb performing a bit better. The dwarf player had to leave after a couple of turns but he did manage to take a charge from some trolls and pop the only magic user in their army with a cannonball. The Paladin again killed the scar vet as well as a couple of trolls thanks to killing blow and the BSB managed to break and run down 4 trolls after all the knights errant died. My peg knights did alright and my unit of 3 grail knights weren't very effective but i think that was mainly due to the way I used them.

So if anything I felt that 8th rules helped my army out. Here's why.

1. With the new composition for characters we can actually be competent in the magic phase without sacrificing combat.
2. Lore of Life is now awesome.
3. The new rules for initiative order actually helped because people weren't so scared about being charged by my lances.
4. The new charge distance helps a lot.
5. New rules for stone-throwers are great but I agree with antman and don't think that they make our shooting superior to any serious shooting armies.

So those are the things that stood out and I must say that I was very impressed.

willowdark
16-07-2010, 11:30
heres my take...the problem is that i dont think brets have superior shooting. played a game with empire and their warmachines killed me. those cannons and mortars will take out treb crews...

so i dont think we can rely on our shooting to set up our win condition...in this case, baiting the enemy into a flank charge by knights.

The shooting isn't purely dominating, neither is the magic, but the combat troops excel in a way that makes the other stuff look much better.

For instance, the Empire does have dominant shooting, as well as strong magic, but they still have relatively mediocre combat troops and though their knights are cheap they don't compete with Bret lances. On top of that, Brets have Peg Knights which can threaten artillery.

So, assuming Brets pray and go second, the Empire army has 2 choices, target shooting on Knights or on the supports. If he chooses the latter the lances will be barreling down on him in 2 turns. If he chooses the former, The Brets will have Trebs as well as 20-40 archers to soak the Empire infantry.

The difference here is target saturation. The Bret list can produce so many Knights without detracting from the basic ranged potential. So shooting alone isn't amazing, but when you factor all of it in together the Bret list is better equipped for the long fight while the Empire gunline will start to fold as you put pressure on them.

Having the best Knights in the game combined with cheap infantry that can benefit from magic buffs a lot more than they used to means that Bret shooting as a support is actually pretty fantastic.

antman677
17-07-2010, 01:21
The difference here is target saturation. The Bret list can produce so many Knights without detracting from the basic ranged potential. So shooting alone isn't amazing, but when you factor all of it in together the Bret list is better equipped for the long fight while the Empire gunline will start to fold as you put pressure on them.


Yep I agree with you willow. The harder you make target priority for your enemy the more mistakes they will make --> better chance of winning.

I plan to have 3 scary elements (in order of scariness):

1) Fey enchantress w/ lore of life + 11 questing knights + bsb + banner of defense
2) 2 trebs surrounded by 40 archers
3) damsel with lore of beasts + 8 KotR

my questing knight train is for sure the biggest target but with all the buffs...possible t7, regen, 4+ ward vs missiles its gonna be really hard taking that knight unit down so should soak up lots of fire enough for the trebs, KotR, and smaller errant units to do plenty of damage

if they shoot the supporting units then the big questing knight unit will munch its way through like pacman

Deadseed
27-07-2010, 02:02
Since large units are the new big scary thing, I think it would be benificial to hold one of these units up until you're ready to deal with it.

How about a Lord withe the Virtue of the Penitent and the Serienne's Locket. Have him riding any mount you want, and flank charge a unit that you're confident doesn't have any killing blow.

Have a Damsel nearby casting lore of Life and he's pretty much invincible.

edit: He would have to take the Crown of Command instead of the Virtue of Penitent.

elite_dannux
27-07-2010, 07:08
Doesnt V.o.Penitent prohibit other magic items or mounts?

mcgearbox
27-07-2010, 15:03
The Virtue of the Penitent does allow you to ride a warhorse (no pegasus or hippogryph), but you are correct in that you can not use magic items.

Deadseed
27-07-2010, 15:26
Woops, my bad, for some reason I only read the "can't join units" part.

In that case give him the crown of command.

Malorian
27-07-2010, 15:42
Yes the crown of command and a rerollable armor save is a great way to go if you want to tie a large unit up.

elite_dannux
29-07-2010, 08:57
Kinda slow with posting in this thread compared to the other tactica threads....

Are everything really that clear and obvious?

Sedge
29-07-2010, 10:58
I guess so. Its the Character items and virtues that are the really tricky choices I feel.

antman677
30-07-2010, 05:59
Kinda slow with posting in this thread compared to the other tactica threads....

Are everything really that clear and obvious?

ha...partly because there is another thread dedicated to brets also...but focused on "strategies" rather than grab bag tactics

elite_dannux
07-08-2010, 03:20
Ok, give me your thoughts on how Bretonnia fare in 8th ed.

I just got most of my army today and im eager to put them together.

What are you imba Lord/Paladin setups?
Do you think that a lvl1/2 Damsel with Beast lore is a must for a big unit of M@A or do you prefer life lore?

Tenken
07-08-2010, 04:00
Ok, give me your thoughts on how Bretonnia fare in 8th ed.

I just got most of my army today and im eager to put them together.

What are you imba Lord/Paladin setups?
Do you think that a lvl1/2 Damsel with Beast lore is a must for a big unit of M@A or do you prefer life lore?

They came out fairly solid. You're not gunna win any games with ye olde pointe and clicke tactics. Brets now require a degree of finesse and tactical forethought. As for lord combos, virute of heroism became almost a must have. You get killing blow vs everything AND can use magic weapons!!! It's just amazing. Otherwise it depends what you wanna do, there's a good setup for a single lord to hold up an entire unit (stubborn helmet, forget what it's called, gromil greathelm, others to fit taste). You can make lords that are great in duels and are fairly competent even against more powerful lords, you can make unkillable lords (especially now with lore of life) you can make unit killer lords, it really depends how you wanna roll. Pegasus riding heroes are also pretty boss now, you pay 50 pts to gain flying and an extra wound, shame they still can't join peg knights units.:wtf:

As for magic, I like a level 4 proph with life and a level 2 damsel with beasts. Both are great lores, and since they can sit in the middle of a knight unit and grant their unit MR it's just wonderful. Take the blessing item and use it on a unit of M@A early in the game, then move the damsel into a knights' unit.

edit: its also worth noting in a 2500 pt game you can have a tricked out lord and still afford a level 4 prophetess with some protective items. You could pry squeeze in another lord if you wanted.

antman677
07-08-2010, 19:08
Ok, give me your thoughts on how Bretonnia fare in 8th ed.

I just got most of my army today and im eager to put them together.

What are you imba Lord/Paladin setups?
Do you think that a lvl1/2 Damsel with Beast lore is a must for a big unit of M@A or do you prefer life lore?

Brets are fun! it is definitely a tactical army and i constantly feel outnumbered and outgunned (i enjoy the challenge :P). Knights are still good and trebs are fun.

i like my paladin with a wyrmlance+magic shield in a KotR unit and my Lord of a peg with gromril greathelm, biting blade, and sirienne's locket. With lore of life damsels around he is almost unkillable. He flies around protects flanks, flank charges, warmachine hunts, and soaks up fire.

I use two lvl 2 damsels with lore of life. since every spell is decent to awesome you can go wrong with that lore. I also run lots of peg knights so healing wounds when damsels get lore of life spells off is really nice

Gaunai
09-08-2010, 03:52
I almost always take one paladin with Virtue of the Ideal and Gauntlets of the Duel for a challenge character killer. Just gotta be careful not to overdo what he can take. Have him on a pegasus and you get a highly mobile 7ws, 4a, 6i challenge machine.

elite_dannux
09-08-2010, 12:48
Would a BSB with Banner of Discipline give Ld9 to all peasants within 6"?

If so this might possible be a useful setup in low points games where a lord is to expensive to be used.

Or would a regular knight BSB confer ld9 to peasants too?

russellmoo
09-08-2010, 22:01
One small addition to the tactic of rolling up the enemy from their flank one unit at a time.

Sometimes armies not wanting to get flanked deploy something stubborn or unbreakable to stop this tactic.

If you can afford it it is a good idea to place another big hitting unit on the other flank if you suspect your opponent is on to your battle plan. So you would instead deploy Grail knights, Knights errant, peasants, Knights of the realm, Questing knights. Both the heavy hitters are on the extreme flank. This way you can roll up your opponent from the other flank if the Grail knights are somehow stopped.

Walls
09-08-2010, 23:05
I wanna hear some non peasant talk! I hate poor people! :)

Tenken
09-08-2010, 23:34
I wanna hear some non peasant talk! I hate poor people! :)

GK'S ROOOOOCKKKK!!!!!! lol. Seriously though on the topic of non-peasants I have a question. Pry belongs in the rules forum, but maybe someone can help me out here; do KE with extended charge ranges (the virute/banner) have to test impetuous at the greatest possible max charge distance? Or do they always test at 20"? Just wondering because I was thinking of putting a paladin with the virtue of +d6 charge in a unit of KE so even if they do fail their impetuous test at 20" there's a good chance they'd make it in with 4d6 drop the lowest +8.

theDregs
10-08-2010, 02:18
Apologies if this has been covered, I'm still working my way through the thread. I am thinking of starting Bretonnia (atcually I'm 90% sure this is the army I want). Since the battalion box is no longer available, can anyone give me some pointers on economically starting an army to build on. The only unit I refuse to take is the Reliquae. I just hate their fluff that much.

Tenken
10-08-2010, 04:33
Dregs, the BB is still on the GW site. But you can pry order it from some other supplier for around 15-20% less. I know for a fact there's a seller on ebay who sells them for 75 usd. Batallion boxes are a great way to start the army, I'm gunna pick up a few myself. I happen to have a handful of old 5th ed models (including the awesome M@A) and a box of knights, so my goal is to get a couple boxes of batallions and I'll probably have a full army.

theDregs
10-08-2010, 10:47
Right here it says no longer available. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440035a&prodId=prod1050119

Also, I play in a struggling LGS, so I have him order my stuff direct. And this means I need to pay full price.

So if anyone has advice on building an economical army with the above constraints, please advise!

elite_dannux
10-08-2010, 10:56
It might be sold out in different contries. I got mine BB last friday so they can be bought.

A battallion box, a box of Men at arms and perhaps 2 more peg knights and a trebuchet and you are set.

And if you have som spare knights or other bits you can make all the lord/hero options you need too!

I have almost an complete setup of lords/heroes made up just form knights and menatarms bits.

dooombot
11-08-2010, 00:41
Are most people giving their Bret Lords the Virtue of Heroism? I'm thinking of giving him the Siriennes Locket. Has any one had some expierence with it? My only reservation is that it costs so much.

Tenken
11-08-2010, 04:11
Are most people giving their Bret Lords the Virtue of Heroism? I'm thinking of giving him the Siriennes Locket. Has any one had some expierence with it? My only reservation is that it costs so much.

That could be a great combo, just beware HPAs and daemons as they have (or can have in the HPAs case) magical attacks! Another great combo with VoH is having a damsel or prophetess with lore of beasts cast the super killy spell on the lord (+3 s/attacks). I also like the cuirass of fortune on a lord with VoH, slightly increases your chances of getting a 6.

Tenken
11-08-2010, 16:21
Hate to double post, but on a different topic lets talk turkey, or hippogryph to be more precise. I love the idea of these beasties, but I can't think of a single way to make one really useful! They cost alot, and now that terror isn't so, well, terrifying, they seem to have alot less uses. Considering how easy they are to shoot out from under the lord with a cannon ball, leaving him mountless (egad, a bretonnian lord walking? perish the thought), they just seem like more of a liability than anything.

Can you make this turkey fly? Is there a way to effectively use the hippogryph? I'd love to think there is.

dooombot
12-08-2010, 00:07
Can you make this turkey fly? Is there a way to effectively use the hippogryph? I'd love to think there is.

Agreed.

I figure I'd keep him back for a few rounds until I can have him charge into a combat that he could tip the scales for. And a hippogryph seems pretty useful in combat, especially on a flank or rear. At least better than a Peg.

It's a beautiful model in any case.

McBaine
12-08-2010, 07:22
My problem with the Hippogryph:
That's 200 points you could spend to get a second Lord (although not fully equipped).
But instead of a secon Lord you spend those 200 points for a mount that is nearly to not protected (apart from the blessing).

Advantages of Hippogryph:
- General LD bubble of 18"
- 4 WS4 S5 attacks + D6 automatic S5 attacks in combat (against Infantry swarms and beasts)
- +1 bonus to armor save
- Fly
- immunity to killing blow as long as the Hippogryph is alive (not sure about that, but it seems this way)

Disadvantages:
- Can't join units
- is a good visable target without "look out Sir" who can't take cover behind obstacles (because of large target)
- In combat the Hippogryph lacks decent protection and can be slain by combat characters for easy(er) Combat resolution.

So, I think against armies with few to no missiles you can giv it a shot, but for me, I prefer putting these 200 pts in a second Lord.

Blackknight1239
12-08-2010, 07:47
I'm thinking something like this.

Bretonnian Lord- 395pts
Hippogryph
Wyrmlance
Sierienne's Locket
Enchanted Shield

Alright, he gets 4 Str 6 attacks on the charge, 4 Str 5 attacks, and 1d6 Thunderstomp. A free breath weapon per-game. +2 Armour save, and a Bretonnian Ward Save. Can only be hit with one wound a turn, assuming it's not magical. So, he's made to fly into a rear, chop down a rank or so, and keep a combat up. Combo's well with a Damsel/Prophetess with the Lore of Life, so you always keep his wounds up. Might be tight, but you could do this guy with a Level 3 Wizard with some anti-magic items in 2500. Wouldn't be too bad, I think.

Sedge
12-08-2010, 08:51
I like the look of that. It should work.

Tenken
12-08-2010, 13:01
Does the locket affect the hippogryph? I seriously doubt if it would, but if it does that's awesome! Also wasn't it in the FAQ that the flying turkey doesn't get blessing saves? Or is that just the improved save with the shield?

McBaine
12-08-2010, 14:16
The Locket doesnt effect the hippogryph at all. He gets the normal blessing, but not the improved ones from Grailshield, Dragonclaw or virtue.

Sedge
12-08-2010, 14:23
What the hippogryph gets the blessing?

Tenken
12-08-2010, 15:39
The Locket doesnt effect the hippogryph at all. He gets the normal blessing, but not the improved ones from Grailshield, Dragonclaw or virtue.

Okay, what if you sprang for the 4+ ward save item? Does that affect mounts? I don't have a copy of the BRB yet (waiting for blood island) or I'd just look it up myself. Just wondering.

apbevan
12-08-2010, 16:32
Look at the wording of the items in questions, When it says the bearer it never effects the mount, if it says the model then it effects the mount.

Now in 7th Hatred and Frenzy also effected the mount but someone told me that is not true anymore in 8th but I can't seem to find the rules that would clarify if this is so as it may have relevance to the blessing.

McBaine
12-08-2010, 16:33
What the hippogryph gets the blessing?
Check the bretonnia AB page 45. Mounts get the blessing. Since 6th Edition...


Okay, what if you sprang for the 4+ ward save item? Does that affect mounts?
Ward save, special rules and so on do not affect the mounts unless the rule of the item says otherwise. A 4+ Ward save does not affect the mount unless it says so.

EDIT:
if it says the model then it effects the mount.
No, the FAQ said that such things never affect mounts (even if it says model) unless it says so. Examples are the blessing and a Wood Elf talisman.

Grand Master Raziel
20-08-2010, 15:23
I've got a question for you guys - in previous editions, we as Bret players could take an extra character, as the PSB didn't count towards our character allotment. Now, character allotment is based on points-percentage. Do we get any wiggle room there? Do we get extra points, or does the PSB not count towards the percentage? I checked the FAQ, and I didn't find anything suggesting we did, but I'm kind of hoping I missed something.

apbevan
20-08-2010, 16:43
your BSB never was free nor did it not count towards your character allotment, however Bretonnians were allowed 1 more hero than other armies.

Bretonnians are still required to take a BSB and as there is no restrictions on the number of heros you take there is no need to allow you one extra and certainly not free heros.

Malorian
20-08-2010, 17:27
Bretonnians are still required to take a BSB...

Given the 8th rules, who wouldn't want a BSB anyway ;)

Hilte2
20-08-2010, 17:32
Hi,

The pally wasn't free, but the upgrade to BSB was free and mandatory - still is, as far as I know.

H2

Grand Master Raziel
20-08-2010, 18:22
your BSB never was free nor did it not count towards your character allotment, however Bretonnians were allowed 1 more hero than other armies.

Bretonnians are still required to take a BSB and as there is no restrictions on the number of heros you take there is no need to allow you one extra and certainly not free heros.

I apologize for the mixup in terminology. I did not mean to imply the BSB cost no points, but that he didn't count towards the cap on how many total Heros one could field. In this edition, there is no longer a cap, but there is the percentage-of-army thing, so I'm asking whether or not the points spent on the BSB count towards determining one's total percentage spent on Heros. I'd have expected not, considering he didn't count towards the cap in the last couple of editions, but I can't find any references to that effect.

apbevan
20-08-2010, 18:32
Except your still wrong he did count towards your cap of heros but Bretonnian had 1 more hero slot than the other armies.

Bretonnian are required to a take a BSB but we don't have to pay for the BSB upgrade like other armies so we get a free 25pts already.

Bretonnian heroes are not very expensive so with a limit of 25% I don't think we need extra point alotments or to not have the BSB count towards the points.

Malorian
20-08-2010, 18:33
He does count towards the 25%.

And might I add that if you are getting close to the 25% character cap with brets that you should probably convert some of that into more knights.

Lantern
20-08-2010, 19:21
I've got a question for you guys - in previous editions, we as Bret players could take an extra character, as the PSB didn't count towards our character allotment. Now, character allotment is based on points-percentage. Do we get any wiggle room there? Do we get extra points, or does the PSB not count towards the percentage? I checked the FAQ, and I didn't find anything suggesting we did, but I'm kind of hoping I missed something.

Its a good question. At the moment, despite being required to take in a BSB, there is no "extra" alotment for Bretonnian armies. In the previous army book (for 6th edition I think), Bretonnians did indeed get a larger character allowence (75% total compared to other armies 50%). In that case, it was to represent that fact that Bretonnia is was a land of heroes, full of brave knights eager to slay many a monster. With army books moving back to the percentage system, you may find that future army books have similar adjustments (High Elves can already ignore limitations to special and rare troop numbers, so the precedent is already set). Now I wouldn't argue if they decided to bring back the Bretonnian 75% character allowance, but I never use the full 50% we have now. Still, even 10% as a token gesture towards mandatory choices (within ANY list) would be a good thing in my book, and this extends to Vampire Count and Tomb Kings lists as well.

NB, I know that the new erratas allow a vampireless Vampire counts army to be fielded, but really.....ITS A BLOODY VAMPIRE, who wouldnt want one anyway?

VetSgtSchaeffer
20-08-2010, 20:37
What are thoughts on a killy lord in a unit of grail knights, is the standard armor save and ward save enough to keep him alive? I like the idea of maximizing the heroic killing blow with as many attacks and rerolls as I can but will he die before getting to make the kill? I am a new fantasy player and would appreciate any thoughts on this. I also posted my 3k list and would appreciate any feedback on it before I start my army.

elite_dannux
21-08-2010, 04:26
Schaeffer: add a link to your list in your post. Much easier to find and comment your list that way.

apbevan
23-08-2010, 13:00
The standard armour and ward on a character in a unit of knights should be fine.

Malorian
23-08-2010, 16:17
What are thoughts on a killy lord in a unit of grail knights, is the standard armor save and ward save enough to keep him alive? I like the idea of maximizing the heroic killing blow with as many attacks and rerolls as I can but will he die before getting to make the kill? I am a new fantasy player and would appreciate any thoughts on this. I also posted my 3k list and would appreciate any feedback on it before I start my army.

The problem is that this unit will be a big target for your opponent, so expect a lot of losses from shooting and magic.

You also have to put the grail vow on him just to allow him to be in this unit.

The nice thing is you have a unit full of models that can take challenges for him, and in general his basical armor and ward is enough, but as I said above I think his biggest worry isn't combat.

apbevan
23-08-2010, 16:26
If your worried about it a Damsel and Banner of Defense will add to the protection of the unit but it gets pretty expensive.

My personal preference to spread my characters across my Knights of the Realm and if I put a character into the grail knights it will be a damsel.

Trains_Get_Robbed
23-08-2010, 17:48
Got a team game tomorrow with some buds before they some of them head off to college, going to be using my newlsy built Brets :D.

I do have a question regarding the BsB: It says in the book that one is allowed to take a Virtue with the BsB if the BsB has a magic banner. The context of the statement seems to imply that the Virtue can be taken BUT, at a point cost. However, others in here and my friends dad believes otherwise.

apbevan
23-08-2010, 18:37
The Virtue definitely has to be paid for.
The BSB says you may take a magic banner of any points value, does that mean its free because it did not explicitly say not to pay for it?

The only free thing you get is the upgrade to a BSB for no points cost because it explicitly says you don't have to pay for it.

Edit: rereading how you posted the question your confusion comes from how you have written the question. Nowhere in the rules does it talk about getting a virtue if he picks a magic banner. The rules do say if you take a magic banner you can't take any magic items though you may still pick a virtue of up to 50 points.

Artinam
23-08-2010, 18:38
He counts normally for the hero alotment, the FAQ makes no exception.

Blinder
23-08-2010, 19:00
The reason the bit about the virtue is in there is that a magic banner stops you from taking any other magic items but they don't count the banner against the 50 points of Virtue+items paladins get. So, you can take and drop a Banner of the Lady (already double the character's normal "Magic Stuff" allowance) and still give him a 40 point virtue. You just can't give him magic armor or a talisman or anything like that (which you could if he had "just a banner," but would compete with the virtue for points).

Malorian
23-08-2010, 19:02
This can be easily shown by the #1 most popular Bret BSB in 7th:

Paladin BSB w/ horse, virtue of duty, warbanner

In total that's 55 points between the virtue and the banner but it's allowed due to what Blinder has already stated.

Walls
09-09-2010, 17:05
I have acquired some shiny new Bretonnians: 16 KoTR, 6 or 8 Errant, a BSB. I have an extra Brett horse so was gonna make up my general. What kinda builds are we looking at in the 500-700ish pt range? I have that many pts without him as it is so could probably spend 200pts on a Lord to be able to still buy the Pally. Could also go with an on foot damsel if need be and have about 10-15 archers (mix of empire and peasant)

russellmoo
11-09-2010, 15:19
Lord build- gromril helm for extra protection- Sword of the lady's champion, virtue of confidence- this lord does well in challenges-

Or- replace gromril helm with the Armor of Aguiluf- now you hit on 3's, wound on 3's, and can reroll them in a challenge-

A good cheap build- virtue of heroism, enchanted shield, lance.

antman677
11-09-2010, 20:47
What are thoughts on a killy lord in a unit of grail knights, is the standard armor save and ward save enough to keep him alive? I like the idea of maximizing the heroic killing blow with as many attacks and rerolls as I can but will he die before getting to make the kill? I am a new fantasy player and would appreciate any thoughts on this. I also posted my 3k list and would appreciate any feedback on it before I start my army.

i dont really like grails knights...theyre really nice but they get killed as easil as the next knight. id rather have a bigger block of KotR.

i like my lord on a peg with sirenne's locket, gromril great helm, and a sword of some sort

meneroth
12-09-2010, 03:44
dont forget gauntlet of the duel, forces the opponent to accept, keep them skaven from running away on you.

Trains_Get_Robbed
12-09-2010, 06:27
Thanks for all the replies guys. :D

So I figured that the +25 point BsB upgrade was free -at least I got that much right :rolleyes:.

Malorian
12-09-2010, 14:22
dont forget gauntlet of the duel, forces the opponent to accept, keep them skaven from running away on you.

Bah!

Against skaven youo just move your characters to be in base to base with what you want to fight and don't bother giving a challenge.

Methios
13-09-2010, 08:33
Unless i am mistaken in 8th every one can decline a challenge and get moved to the back of the unit.
I cant find any negatives on declining anymore making skaven verminous valor kinda out of play.

russellmoo
13-09-2010, 22:55
Verminous valor does still have an impact as- even from the back you can still use a general's leadership, and the BSB is still in full effect.

What the challenge rules have done is ironically make it so that players don't want to issue challenges to Skaven- because if you issue a challenge you won't get to kill their character.

The way challenges work- the guantlet of the dual is actually now worth taking, because just charge your lord into the unit containing the enemy wizard, then start challenging and killing until you get to the enemy caster.

scarvet
14-09-2010, 19:02
This can be easily shown by the #1 most popular Bret BSB in 7th:

Paladin BSB w/ horse, virtue of duty, warbanner

In total that's 55 points between the virtue and the banner but it's allowed due to what Blinder has already stated.
I rather try to make my BSB tougher or fights better.
Either way, BSB is good in 8th ed which I don't think any compensation is needed.

Walls
14-09-2010, 21:40
What about a BSB with a Wyrmlance? Makes him pretty good in a challenge.

Malorian
14-09-2010, 21:41
What about a BSB with a Wyrmlance? Makes him pretty good in a challenge.

Not really. It specifically says you can't use the breathweapon in combat...

Was kinda obvious in 7th, but in 8th is turned a potentially awesome weapon into meh...

Walls
14-09-2010, 23:14
Oh, I never realized you couldn't use the breath weapon in combat.

scarvet
14-09-2010, 23:41
If your lord isn't going for WS10 for some reason, you can save that for your BSB.
Or Heatwood Lance.

But I personally go for Dragon Claws+Virtue of Duty

Walls
15-09-2010, 00:41
Do you really need WS 10 when it's already 6? Seems a bit redundant. Seems like you really need to make your guys hit harder, not better?

russellmoo
15-09-2010, 04:15
WS10 is not just about hitting on 3's, it's about making it so your opponent needs 5's to hit you- It also helps against assassins- where most players are counting on being able to hit you on 3's- needing 4's is usually a huge disappointment for your opponent

scarvet
15-09-2010, 05:00
Combine with the gauntlet of dual and virtue of confidence your Lord is a pure nightmare for any character.

matthewmw64
17-09-2010, 12:49
I'm considering picking up Brets as a fresh 8th ed army (Currently play WE, but not super happy with their direction atm)

How are Brets faring in the edition so far? What size knight units are considered optimal? Is a Bret Lord on Pegasus viable? >.> (I like Pegasi ^^)

Cheers,
Matt

Malorian
17-09-2010, 14:46
Brets are actually doing fairly well from the battle reports I've seen.

You need lances big enough to take away steadfast, so you'll want a unit or two that is full strength to have the full 5 ranks, and after that 9 or 6 for flanking is just fine.

Now that you have combined profiles, peg characters are more viable than ever.

russellmoo
17-09-2010, 16:42
I like regular peg knights- however, a paladin on a royal pegasus does gain an extra wound-

I've had success running two maxed out units of knights- one Knights of realm and the other Knights errant- I couldn't get the M@A to stick around so they have been dropped so I can field 6 Grail knights and the Pegasus knights-

The army then just follows the BSB around the board minus the archers sitting back guarding the trebuchet- It has so far worked as the army is so mobile that you can avoid the fights you don't want (Chaos chosen, swordmasters, anything unbreakable) and just attack the enemy where they are weak-

matthewmw64
17-09-2010, 21:57
Thanks for the replies guys, really helpful :)

I'm thinking somethign like this maybe at the 2250 points level?

Lord on Pegasus
-Wyrmlance
-Gromril Great Helm
-Gauntlet of the Duel

BSB
-War Banner

Prophetess
-Warhorse
-Chalice of Malfeur

15 Knights Errant
-Full Command
-Errantry Banner

15 KotR
-Full Command

20 Peasant Bowmen
-Full Command

20 Peasant Bowmen
-Full Command

3 Pegasus Knights

2 Trebuchets

6 Grail Knights
-Full Command

How does that look?

frisbee
19-09-2010, 19:10
Anyone been using the Green knight?
How do you like it in 8th ed?
Is it worth the points?

Kevlar
19-09-2010, 21:03
Anyone been using the Green knight?
How do you like it in 8th ed?
Is it worth the points?

Seems like a no brainer for killing warmachines and scouting units. Even if you kill him he's coming back.

Malorian
20-09-2010, 15:41
Seems like a no brainer for killing warmachines and scouting units. Even if you kill him he's coming back.

Pretty expensive for just a war machine killer...

russellmoo
21-09-2010, 08:15
I originally thought about using him, however, I don't like that he doesn't start on the board, he is your fighting lord, and he might not show up until turn 3- seems like he might struggle to make back his points-

frisbee
21-09-2010, 18:22
You are incorrect. You need a Three to bring him on table. He can show up in any turn.

Kevlar
21-09-2010, 21:10
I think he looks quite good now. He gets a "look out sir!" now if you keep him near another cavalry unit. Plus give him some beast buffs and with his 5-10 attacks he can shred a lot of things.

Malorian
21-09-2010, 22:09
I think he looks quite good now. He gets a "look out sir!" now if you keep him near another cavalry unit. Plus give him some beast buffs and with his 5-10 attacks he can shred a lot of things.

Typically he is immune to most things that allow look out sir ;)

One thing that is nice though, is now that static combat res have been reduced by one he can hold up entire blocks much more easily.

frisbee
22-09-2010, 01:12
You have to remember only magic or deamons can do anything against him.

Trains_Get_Robbed
22-09-2010, 04:04
What is the normal BsB setup you guys all run?

russellmoo
22-09-2010, 07:43
gromril helm, sword of might-

for something even more durable- enchanted shield, dawnstone, gold sigil sword

Trains_Get_Robbed
22-09-2010, 13:47
ehh, I guess I need something more combat rez-orientated.

scarvet
22-09-2010, 14:46
No, you don't have a single character with 3 CR on it so people can determine to assassinate it.

Malorian
22-09-2010, 14:57
ehh, I guess I need something more combat rez-orientated.

In 8th you are basically going to have a ton of CR and you'll break them regardless, or they will have more ranks and be stubborn.

I wouldn't worry about a combat res BSB any more.

Largo78
20-05-2011, 12:31
Hello people.

I saw many great army ideas here and i want to show my army.
I play 2400 points AC for ETC.

Bret lord
lance/2h wpn
gromril great helm
mantle of damsel elena
virtue ok knightly temper
(potion that gives devastating charge)

Bret lord
wyrm lance
Dragon helm
virtue of Impetuous knight 2nd

Paladin
virtue of Impetuous knight 1st
enchanted shield
lance

Paladin BSB
rampagers standard

Paladin
morning star
virtue of Empathy

Damsel of the lady lvl 2 beast lore
dispel scroll

Grail knights x 7 full command
banner of defence

Knight of the real x 6
Knights of the reak x 6

Men at arms full command x29
Men at arms full command x 34

Peasant bowman x 20 (flame attacks)
Peasant bowman x 20 (flame attacks)

Trebudhet x2

Idea of this army is to get grail knights into combat in first turn. Charge range 8 + 4d6 inches. Best charge so far is 30 and worst 22.
I usualy dont pray for blessing since the grail knights get it anyway and all of my heroes.

So far charge of the grails managed to destroy entire block of black orccs temple guard ...

Brady
01-06-2011, 17:01
What's everyones opinion on this here fighty lord?

- Lord
- Virtue of Heroism
- Sword of swift slaying
- Armour of agilulf
- Gauntlet of the duel.

The idea is to strike first, hitting on 3's (with a re-roll unless your opponent is I7), and then aim to get the heroic killing blow. If you don't kill them, then they still hit you on 4/5's and you have a 2+ save and likely a 5+ ward.

Gauntlet of the duel is just there as you have 10 points left, and it can be useful to shape how challenges go so if you got caught in a charge by a big unit you can challenge to avoid the hits, obviously. What do you think?

russellmoo
01-06-2011, 17:46
That's actually a really good build- most players that go with that virtue prefer to use the lance that grants re-rolls- probably just because then it's a guarantee to get the re-rolls- however, your build while not guaranteeing re-rolls does guarantee you will get to attempt to use HKB- so I'd say it's equally as good-

Astal21
02-06-2011, 00:47
What's everyones opinion on this here fighty lord?

- Lord
- Virtue of Heroism
- Sword of swift slaying
- Armour of agilulf
- Gauntlet of the duel.

The idea is to strike first, hitting on 3's (with a re-roll unless your opponent is I7), and then aim to get the heroic killing blow. If you don't kill them, then they still hit you on 4/5's and you have a 2+ save and likely a 5+ ward.

Gauntlet of the duel is just there as you have 10 points left, and it can be useful to shape how challenges go so if you got caught in a charge by a big unit you can challenge to avoid the hits, obviously. What do you think?


I've been using something similar to that:

Lord
Virtue of Heroism
Sword of Swift Slaying
Cuirass of Fortune
The Other Trickster's Shard
Shield
Royal Pegasus
(Sometimes Grail Vow)

Same basic idea as yours (with less WS), only you do get to re-roll 1's to wound and they have to re-roll any pesky ward saves on the HKB.

Bitten Black Sheep
05-06-2011, 22:20
To Largo
Interesting list and certainly not one I would have thought of.
Obviously the weakness is that all your eggs are in one basket.
Catch your opponent off guard on the first turn and you will probably comfortably win the day. However, if your threat is contained then you could have problems.
Do you play open lists at ETC, because if you do then you might struggle.
For example your average charge with swiftstride is 8.5" rounded to 9" (you have a reroll so probably add 2") plus 7" from your two impetuous knights plus 8" from your movement. This make 26" on average. (Half way between your best and worst!)
26" only just gets you across to the opponents deployment zone in most scenarios.
If I was your opponent I would deploy deep to keep out of range. I would throw up diverters (eagles, dogs, fast cav, skinks etc.) and stick them in front of your deathstar. Basically I would keep feeding you with rubbish whilst I dealt with the rest of your army and try long range blasting with warmachines/spells to weaken you before closing in on your flanks.
I wish you luck, except when you play against New Zealand of course, but I think you won't be allowed to use your deathstar

russellmoo
05-06-2011, 22:59
I would actually spread the impetuous knights between each knight unit-

It becomes harder to get that 1st turn charge- but you now have 2 units with a guaranteed turn 2 charge (even if they deploy along the back of the table) - just dual charge both units in- you are likely to shatter any unit that is not steadfast or stubborn-

Personally I think it's better to dance around a little bit the first turn, line things up a bit- before charging in anyway-

Chain
06-06-2011, 00:45
I was considering trying out this army list:




Bretonia 2600 points


Paladin (G)
barded warhorse
Wyrm Lance,dawnstone,Charmed Shield

124 p

_ _ _

Damsel of the Lady (lvl 1)
Warhorse
Chalice of Malfleur
Lore: Beast

100 p

_ _ _

9 knights of the Realm(Fc)

Standard of discipline

255 p


-------------------



Paladin (BSB)
Barded warhorse, shield, Questing vow
Insignia of the Quest, Relic Sword

140 p


9 Knight errant(Fc)

Errantry banner

221 p


--------------



Prophetess of the Lady (lvl 4)
Warhorse
Chanelling staff, The Ruby Goblet
Lore: life

285 p


9 Questing Knights(Fc)

279 p


-------------



The Green Knight

275 p


-----------



20 Bowmen(musician)
Braziers

130 p

-----------



30 Men at arms(St,mu)

165 p

---------



21 Bowmen(Musician)
Braziers

136 p

------------



5 Knight of the Realm
Musician, Champion

128 p

---------

trebuche

90 p

---------

trebuche

90 p

---------

trebuche

90 p

---------

trebuche

90 p

---------





2598 p



Lord: 560 = 21,5 %
Hero: 364 = 14%
Core: 1035 = 39,8%
Special: 279 = 10,73 %
Rare: 360 = 13,84 %


Any Opinions?

Bitten Black Sheep
06-06-2011, 02:20
Its not legal
Max of 2 duplicate rares (see page 139)

Chain
06-06-2011, 13:21
Its not legal
Max of 2 duplicate rares (see page 139)

had forgotten that one

well at least it means i won't be facing this myself though seem like if i changed it to a 3k army it would be legal...

w3rm
06-06-2011, 20:50
Thinking about a potential Bret army. Here's what I was thinking

Lord w/ Virtue of HKB
Lord w/ Pegasus, Crown of Command, Dawnstone
Level 3 Beast Prohpetess

Paladin BSB w/ Some virtue

12 Knights of The Realm w/ FC
12 Knights of The Realm w/ FC
26 Archers w/ Flaming Shots
26 Archers w/ Flaming Shots


3 Pegasus Knights

2 Trebuchet
6 Grail Knights

Should be close to 2500. Any thoughts on it?

It's pretty fast and the double treb and archers should give some people some headaches. The lord is my tarpit for holding up something nasty.

Brady
06-06-2011, 21:27
Your first lord, with only HKB will not be effective, you strike at I6 (average at hero/lord level), you won't land enough hits to warrant the HKB being effective.

There is not enough knights! 30 Knights total at 2500 really is not enough, those two Realm units will get destroyed easy enough and then your left with virtually nothing of use.

You could remove the pegasus knights and the second lord, maybe even a couple of archers and then buy a big 15 man knights errant unit with errantry banner if you can.

Heck, you could remove an entire unit of archers and spend the points making your first lord a bit more killy and upgrading you grail knights to 8 strong.

w3rm
06-06-2011, 21:38
Your first lord, with only HKB will not be effective, you strike at I6 (average at hero/lord level), you won't land enough hits to warrant the HKB being effective.

There is not enough knights! 30 Knights total at 2500 really is not enough, those two Realm units will get destroyed easy enough and then your left with virtually nothing of use.

You could remove the pegasus knights and the second lord, maybe even a couple of archers and then buy a big 15 man knights errant unit with errantry banner if you can.

Heck, you could remove an entire unit of archers and spend the points making your first lord a bit more killy and upgrading you grail knights to 8 strong.

Thinking about a potential Bret army. Here's what I was thinking

Lord w/ Virtue of HKB, Blade of +2 attacks, Potion of Speed
Level 4 Beast Prohpetess

Paladin BSB w/ Some virtue

12 Knights of The Realm w/ FC
12 Knights of The Realm w/ FC
15 Knights Errant w/ Errantry Banner
26 Archers w/ Flaming Shots
26 Archers w/ Flaming Shots

4 Pegasus Knights

7 Grail Knights w/ Full Command

Better?

Brady
06-06-2011, 21:59
Yes, much, although drop a peggy knighty for a graily knighty so the lord/damsel/bsb can join and make them a 3x3 lance.

You could also drop both bowmen down to 20 stong, take the 17 points from the peggy swap and use the 89 points to get yourself a Trebuchet.

w3rm
06-06-2011, 22:40
Are Trebuchets really that necessary for brets? And also how many skavenslaves are equal to the virtue of HKB?

Trains_Get_Robbed
07-06-2011, 03:34
Trebuchets for me personally suck. Mine always seem to underperform, and as a result have been absent in the last lists I made.

Chain
07-06-2011, 20:01
I was wondering if it's possible to do this?


Make 2 units charge the same unit but chose having 1 flee(granted will lose the blessing and risk wider panic)

then soon reform and be ready to charge back again

Due to the other unit being in combat the others shouldn't be persued


Would this work?

or isn't it worth the risk?

russellmoo
07-06-2011, 20:09
Well, you can't choose to have a unit flee- you can only flee if you are charged, or forced to flee after losing combat-

However, this is why some players like to take a prophetess/damsel with the crown of command- she can't be attacked, and the unit will be stubborn as long as she is alive- you can then use this unit to hold the enemy in place while other units- charge in- flee- come back, move to the flank to charge, etc-

Sedge
07-06-2011, 20:22
You could consider using three + characters in a single unit of realm. I currently run with a Gen, BSB and Hero in front rank backed up with damsel with Crown. The front rank is protected by T4 and either 1+ or 2+ reroll armour with the ward.

This is hard enough but I alos run with A lvl 4 Beast ad Lvl 1 Beast. Generally they just try and Buff with Wysans Wildform to give +2 S and T. If possible get Savage beast off on the gen. +3 A and +3 S.

This unit is SCARY. If it works it hits very hard. Redirecters are a problem.
I also have 2 x 6 man errant units to clear the path of any redirectors and to redirect themselves if they needo to.

So far its worked wonders.

Sedge
07-06-2011, 20:24
Also Heelanhammer Podcast is useful for its discussions on how the Brets work. The host, Dan Heelan, is a very useful tournament player who is finding the Brets an interesting army to play. He has an unusual army build that works for him.....but lets not spoil the surprise. Have a listen.

Chain
07-06-2011, 20:34
Well, you can't choose to have a unit flee- you can only flee if you are charged, or forced to flee after losing combat-

However, this is why some players like to take a prophetess/damsel with the crown of command- she can't be attacked, and the unit will be stubborn as long as she is alive- you can then use this unit to hold the enemy in place while other units- charge in- flee- come back, move to the flank to charge, etc-


in other words only possible if the unit fails it's breaktest?

can i chose not to roll a breaktest and pick to autobreak?




Edit:


I'm considering a Magical Banner for my Questing Knights

and was wondering which one of these you guys would suggest on this unit?


Banners:

Banner of defense, Valorus standard or razor banner, none magical or another banner?



The Unit:


Prophetess of the Lady (lvl 4)
Warhorse
Chanelling staff, The Ruby Goblet
Lore: life

285 p


11 Questing Knights(Fc)

335 p


-------------



A 3000 point army

russellmoo
07-06-2011, 21:01
Personally, I've always felt like a commander should be able to order a flee from combat- but the rules don't allow it- (as it states- you may only flee when (1 charged, and your unit is not engaged in combat, 2) your unit panics (from terror, a spell, or casualties, 3) you are defeated in combat and fail a break test- this requires you to roll 2D6, etc)

An auto flee rule would be abused by players relentlessly-

Really it is better to just try and find ways to annihilate your enemy on the charge rather than try and find some trick that will allow you to run away and then charge in again- plus this tactic would require smaller units- which in 8th ed is generally not such a good thing-

If you've been finding it hard to break the enemy on the charge I would try several things-

1- large blocks of peasants- (to remove steadfast- this works well with trebs)
2- Just keep in mind that some enemy units you are better off just avoiding (large blocks of tzeentch chaos warriors, units that are unbreakable) Bret players do well if they actually don't try and be brave and heroic
3- Find ways to take out the enemy leadership- this means guantlet of the dual+ your favorite magic, virtue combo-

Chain
09-06-2011, 15:16
So here's the potential 3k list i might try out



Paladin (G)
barded warhorse
Wyrm Lance,dawnstone,Charmed Shield

124 p

_ _ _

Damsel of the Lady (lvl 1)
Warhorse
Chalice of Malfleur
Lore: Beast

100 p

_ _ _

10 knights of the Realm(Fc)

Standard of discipline

279 p


-------------------

Paladin (BSB)
Barded warhorse, shield, Questing vow
Insignia of the Quest, Relic Sword

140 p

_ _ _

11 Knight errant(Fc)

Errantry banner

261 p

--------------

Prophetess of the Lady (lvl 4)
Warhorse
Chanelling staff, The Ruby Goblet
Lore: life

285 p

_ _ _

11 Questing Knights(Fc)

335 p

-------------

The Green Knight

275 p

-----------

20 Bowmen(musician)
Braziers

130 p

-----------

35 Men at arms(St,mu)

190 p

---------

22 Bowmen(Musician)
Braziers

142 p

------------

9 Knight of the Realm(Fc)
Banner of Charlons


250 p

---------

6 knight errant (ch,mu)

127 p

-----------

trebuche

90 p

---------

trebuche

90 p

---------

trebuche

90 p

---------

trebuche

90 p

---------


2998 p

Novrain
09-06-2011, 16:41
I had two Bret games this weekend with my all mounted force: 1500pts against a Dark Elf Xbow line, and 2000pts vs. Beasts.

First game he kills about 2/3 of my knights in the first two turns with xbows, Repeater Xbows and 2 Black Horrors! Then as soon as my knights hit his line they crumple. Grail Knights charge his cold one knights then hold then up long enough for my other lances to come around. GK

Second game my opponent only had three blocks, one gor with beast banner, one big bestigor unit and 6 minotaurs. Double charged the grails and errants into the minos, did about 12 wounds on the charge and broke them, double charged the bestigor with 2 units of KoTR and killed handfuls, broke them. Life buffed Questing Knights held up his gor unit until I could flank. lvl4 Life was gold in this game, T7, 4+ regen Questing knights! :D

Brets aint dead!

Malorian
09-06-2011, 16:46
I also just used an all mounted bret list to smash a skaven list apart.

Rats don't stay steadfast long after dwellers ;)

russellmoo
09-06-2011, 18:17
Yeah, saw that- I think he learned that Bret's do a great job of countering units in horde formation-

That and the important thing is to keep at least one long lance around- as long as you have that 4 ranked lance you can cut down a lot of other units-

Novrain
09-06-2011, 19:06
I was running 12 KoTR, 12 KoTR, 12 KErrant, 6 GK and 6QK, plus paladin, lord and lvl4.

The big lances are definately the way to go I feel. The charge seems to be where we win or lose, so we may as well charge with the whole shebang at once!

w3rm
09-06-2011, 19:21
I refuse to ever take the lore of life. It's so boring to play against and really requires no forethought. But thats not for here!

I think beasts is a great addition to us. The hex spell is great as is the signature spell. The Spear can kill big nasties and transformation turns your wizard into a combat monster.

Novrain
09-06-2011, 21:05
It was my first time using Life and while some spells are frankly amazing, some others are fairly lacklustre. The shield of thorns is fairly useless, as it will just get dispelling in your opponents phase before doing its second set of hits, and Regrowth just is not that impressive when every model is cavalry - bringing a max of 3 knights back didn't really cut it for me. However Flesh to Stone and the Regen one were both very useful, and I didn't roll / choose dwellers.

Beasts does seem good, I have seen some lists that stock on paladins just for the beast of horros spell, and the +1S +1T would be useful on knights. Otherwise it just seems a little high casting value and not enough bang for my buck.

Perhaps I will try heavens next time, that is the lore i usually use with my Empire.

Malorian
09-06-2011, 21:17
Seeing as your main worry is steadfast thorns can help a lot, and getting back models is NEVER bad.

All the while you can be healing up your wounded characters.

w3rm
09-06-2011, 21:37
Its a great lore. Just boring as hell.

Malorian
09-06-2011, 21:41
Meh, all lores are boring if over used.

I mean turning into a mountain chimera can be cool but even that gets old after the umpteenth time you've powerscrolled it.


When I play I don't rely on the magic, I rely on my knights. They do their job and if I can give them a little help with magic then I do it.

Bitten Black Sheep
10-06-2011, 00:58
I quite agree.
I ran mainly knights with 2 level 1 beasts and it was very succesful in a tournament (4/28). I'm going to try a L4 heavens next. I think Iceshard, Harmony and curse are excellent buffs for the knights (or reduce damage).
I would like to get Wyldform back as well but cannot see how to do it economically. A Level 1 beasts will use 3 dice to get the spell of only usually leaving 4 dice for the Heavens spells which is not enough to push things through.
Any thoughts?

w3rm
10-06-2011, 01:30
What brets can get heavens!?!?!

*tents fingers* yesssss

Woodsman
10-06-2011, 06:25
Thing about life is; the misscast protection seems pretty handy - blowing away a lance is never fun. Bringing knights back to life is great IMHO - 3 knights is a whole rank and they're expensive models - you don't need to bring M@A back they're there to die - you don't have to pay them and can even charge funeral expenses :shifty:

Having played an Empire list that had 4 stock DD, a scroll, a level four and the rod'o'power I would never assume to get anything off at all, ever again. Even a 12 for winds doesn't guarantee you'll get to cast. Best to rely on our horses to get the job done.

Heavens is for the Prophetess isn't it? Could be fun.

Anybody use the Fey? I fancy giving some of the other lores a run out at some point.

Novrain
10-06-2011, 10:57
Played a game last night and got my first Bret defeat :(

Rolled the watchtower against Warriors of Chaos, which was hardly ideal for my all mounted army. Won the watchtower but had nothing to place in it. Two turns later he had 20 warriors in it, with a character and the game was effectively over for me. I got bored and charged a KoTR lance in, lost 8 of the attacking party before i got to strike and fled. Just sat outside the rest fo the game and mopped up. He won obviously.

:(

Malorian
10-06-2011, 12:37
With lore of life Brets can clear out the watchtower, even against WoC.

Questing or grail knights will do just fine if they are toughness 7 with regen ;)

Apart from this the trick is to simply move up as fast as you can and crush/tie up anything even remotely close to the watch tower.

I also helps to not play against jerks who think that if brets pray that they lose the auto first turn when attacker (and thus allowing the enemy to get any horde they want into the watchtower before we can do anything).

russellmoo
11-06-2011, 02:25
WoC are way too good at that scenario- it seems almost as if it was designed for them-

The key as Malorian said is to box in the tower- keep the enemy from switching in and out- and then whittle down the unit inside with magic- or buff up a unit that charges in-

In fact- the best way to handle this might be to just let your opponent have the tower- then mop up the rest of the army- then send in a magically buffed up unit- a character bus with Savage Beast should do the trick-

But if you look at the scenario from the perspective of using any Bret unit to hold the tower then it doesn't look good- just realize no Bret unit can really hold the tower- then compensate-

Also- you could see if your gaming group is willing to house rule that instead of watchtower- you have to control a randomly rolled piece of terrain (personally I think this is how the scenario should have been designed)-

Novrain
11-06-2011, 10:15
I found the initiative 5 on the Chaos warriors by far the worst part of the game. Charging in and losing 8/10 knights before even getting to strike! That sucked.

Due to the terrain layout there wasn't really anything I could do about stopping the unit getting to the tower, it was protected either by terrain or by another big unit.

I was wondering something tho. How on earth do Brets keep the watchtower, even if they have infantry to deploy in it? Say M@A - most will be slaughtered before they get to strike by WoC, same with Bowmen. Even a handful of warriors wil reliably kill a slew of peasants, and likely take no casualities back. Even with Wyssans on the M@A, or Horros on a character the odds are still rubbish.

Do we just put 3 characters in every unit and try to IF Horros? Seems a little lame.

russellmoo
11-06-2011, 19:25
20 M@A with wyssans, or flesh to stone will stand up pretty well, if your BSB is nearby they have a good chance of holding for 2 turns this way-

The other option would be a single Bret lord on foot- since only combat res applies your Bret lord will hold the tower single-handedly until either help arrives or your opponent sends in his own nasty character to deal with him-

You can also try running the Lore of Heavens, then leave the tower empty- just bring down a comet on top of the tower every chance you get- he might just decide not to enter the tower rather than get blown up-

Chain
12-06-2011, 00:39
Was wondering if anyone have any experience with having 3 fighty characters in a Lance formation?

With characters being harder to kill and it being impossible for the opponent to attack rank and file units


Would likely result in a Dstar unit though

Malorian
12-06-2011, 01:31
I'd rather have more knights.

russellmoo
12-06-2011, 03:53
It works quite well-

Sedge
13-06-2011, 09:06
Was wondering if anyone have any experience with having 3 fighty characters in a Lance formation?

With characters being harder to kill and it being impossible for the opponent to attack rank and file units


Would likely result in a Dstar unit though

I have been using it for good effect for quite a few games now. You can easily achieve the 1+ reroll save and 5++ ward. on your front rank. Depending on magic you can either heal them back or buff with beasts to make an awsome unit that rarely yeilds wounds. It will be targeted by everything and redirecters are a real pain.

Trains_Get_Robbed
13-06-2011, 20:45
I have been using it for good effect for quite a few games now. You can easily achieve the 1+ reroll save and 5++ ward. on your front rank. Depending on magic you can either heal them back or buff with beasts to make an awsome unit that rarely yeilds wounds. It will be targeted by everything and redirecters are a real pain.

I do this with my tournament Bret builds. Its gross when the entire front rank is all paldins with rerollables, being hit on 5's or a ++4 ward. :evilgrin:

Woodsman
14-06-2011, 08:17
Can't say I have much luck with 'uber' units - don't really fit my playstyle.

What do you give the three pallys exactly? Are these in KotR or KE units?

russellmoo
14-06-2011, 15:28
There are a couple of ways to go- for a very defensive build go-

Gromril great helm, sword of might, shield (usually this is my BSB)

enchanted shield, dawnstone, lance (or you can max out your magic pts and go with the gold sigil sword)

armor of the midsummer sun, luckstone, shield, lance

Or for more offense-

gromril great helm, sword of might, shield

dawnstone, armor of agilulf, lance, shield

magic weapon- (sword of anti-heroes, birth sword of carcassonne, sword of heroes, lance of artois- heartwood lance- if not on general) enchanted shield, luckstone

Feel free to play around with this- any way you run it it is still devastating-

Razaan
14-06-2011, 17:46
Gromril great helm, sword of might, shield (usually this is my BSB)


Unfortunately the BSB cannot take a shield.

Trains_Get_Robbed
14-06-2011, 23:34
^^^ Huh? I think its regular practice to give him a shield. Its just like in the Empire book, and W.E book etc. . . if you can take a magical shield, then why not a normal one? Its circular logic really.

Razaan
15-06-2011, 02:31
^^^ Huh? I think its regular practice to give him a shield. Its just like in the Empire book, and W.E book etc. . . if you can take a magical shield, then why not a normal one? Its circular logic really.

It's because of this quote in the army book:


He my not be given any extra equipment, except for a barded Warhorse or Royal Pegasus.

Sedge
16-06-2011, 14:39
Can't say I have much luck with 'uber' units - don't really fit my playstyle.

What do you give the three pallys exactly? Are these in KotR or KE units?

Lord shield
Killing blow 40
Sword of strife (+2A)
Luckstone ,Dragon Helm,Potion of Swiftness + 5

Hero BSB
Charmed Shield Dawn Stone Wyrmslayer

Hero Shield
Gromril Great Helm Sword of battle (+1A)
Team this with two beasts spellcasters and bosh! Job Done.

Sedge
16-06-2011, 14:47
Actually I was thinking of changing this character set up slightly.

I want to squeeze in the Virtue of the impetuous knight, keep the high armour saves and put mantle of damsel Elena on the General.

Do any of you Bret players have any tips or thoughts on new kit for my heros?

My thoughts are.....

General with Heroic killing blow, Mantle and Great helm. This is the chap that will have savage beast cast upon him. He should be able to weather most combats.
1+ reroll

BSB Charmed shield, dawn stone and Wyrmslayer
2+ reroll

Hero Virtue of Imp Knight (+D6), Enchanted shield and Luckstone.
1+ reroll (once)

The unit is the target for most buff beasts spells. The lord can be made into a monster in combat with savage beasts and possibly one or two wyssans spells. The unit should make it into combat quickly with the virtue.
This is backed up with a damsel with the crown of command giving magic resistance and stubborn.

This is very much an 'all eggs in a basket' army but it does work.

Woodsman
27-06-2011, 10:13
General with Heroic killing blow, Mantle and Great helm. This is the chap that will have savage beast cast upon him. He should be able to weather most combats.
1+ reroll.

I dunno. I always like to maximise wounding attempts with HKB.
So one -or more- of:
More attacks
Re-rolls to hit
Re-rolls to wound
I'd consider giving him some sort of weapon to affect one of the above.

Having played an empire priest spam list I never feel confident on relying on magic in any way - those little buggers can totally close down our magic offence. :eek:

Thinking of giving Heavens a try - anyone use it? - any good combo's to work towards?

Earthcild
27-06-2011, 10:37
I have a couple of quick questions about this army.

1. How good is the Green Knight in just standard matches? The way I read his entry it seems that he can only be hurt by magical stuff (Spells & Magic Weapons) plus he has the Dolorus blade which to me comes across as pretty sweet (A possible 6 extra attacks or strength 6 seems good to my limited Fantasy knowledge) but the real cool thing is that if he dies you can just bring him back (on the luck of a dice roll). Now in my mind for 275 points this seems awesome but I have a feeling I am overlooking something about him that means he's not as great as I think.

2. I'm thinking of having a Lord with a Questing Vow, Sword of Quest, Gromril Helm & Shield and I am thinking of mounting him on a Hippogryph but not sure if it's worth the 200 points. Any thoughts on this set up, something I should take away or add?

Artinam
27-06-2011, 11:21
1. He takes a large chomp from your Lord allotment and he can't be the general. Thats a big issue, he also requires natural terrain to appear from.

2.I'm using a Lord with the Virtue of Heroism, Questing Vow, Sword of the Quest and Dragonhelm. Works remarkably well for some reason (as character designed by a friend of mine who plays dwarfs). Don't put him in a hippogryph it will devour your lord allotment (you won't be able to get a Prophetess) and its very expensive for a very vulnerable model. Not worth it in my opinion. You can get an entire unit of Knights for those points.

Woodsman
27-06-2011, 12:13
1. see Artinam! He's pretty good, but running around alone doesn't help and it's weird how many times you fail to bring him back when you want. Note. I haven't used him in several years so it's all theory.

Probably worth it just for the model though - surely one of the best GW has ever put out.

2. Hippo was poor in 7th and only really got worse IMO. If you're playing a very fun game or building a theme then sure- but it's not helping you generally. If you want to have a lord running around on his own, something like - Stubborn Hat, Gromil Helm, Someone's Locket and anything to garnish - on a peggy, can do quite well. Avoiding chars and magic units you can hold up units alone - a handy lore of life damsel healing back wounds - creates a near invincible lord.
As above I prefer to take virtue of heroism if I'm putting out lots of attacks/re-rolling hits or wounds.

russellmoo
27-06-2011, 15:05
I hate the green knight model- with his huge green feather on his head- however, with some converting he is easily fixable- try removing the feather (large penis shaped object protruding from helm) and sticking on some antlers-

Storm of magic might be changing things a little bit- having a bret lord on a hippogryph may be a little more useful now- fly on over and kill that pesky wizard standing on a fulcrum-

I've always liked him for large games- just because it looks right to see a large army of knights led by a ferocious eagle/horse- but points wise, there are better ways to spend your lord allotment-

samw
28-06-2011, 10:22
Hey guys, getting back into the game for the first time since 6th. Now my poor old Hippgryph Lord can't come out to play for a while, I've been constructing a new one to ride with my Questing Knights. Thoughts?

Bret Lord
Barded Warhorse
Questing Vow
Great Weapon
Guilded Cuirass (regen)
Insignia of the Quest (3+ ward when reduced to one wound)
Dragonsbane stone (immune to flaming attacks)

I think he makes a rather cool, unconventional tank. Insignia will protect him on one wound, and then regen can bring them back. He's there to grind with the other questers now everyone is steadfast (grrr). At 234 points he doesn't break the bank either.

Thoughts?

Glen_Savet
28-06-2011, 14:04
Recall that you cannot use regeneration saves when you have used wardsaves.

Razaan
28-06-2011, 14:36
Hey guys, getting back into the game for the first time since 6th. Now my poor old Hippgryph Lord can't come out to play for a while, I've been constructing a new one to ride with my Questing Knights. Thoughts?

Bret Lord
Barded Warhorse
Questing Vow
Great Weapon
Guilded Cuirass (regen)
Insignia of the Quest (3+ ward when reduced to one wound)
Dragonsbane stone (immune to flaming attacks)

I think he makes a rather cool, unconventional tank. Insignia will protect him on one wound, and then regen can bring them back. He's there to grind with the other questers now everyone is steadfast (grrr). At 234 points he doesn't break the bank either.

Thoughts?

I'm not so certain that Regeneration does what you think it does. I'd re-read the rules, then revisit your Lord's equipment choices.

McBaine
28-06-2011, 15:29
Also note that the guilded cuirass needs the grail vow.

samw
28-06-2011, 15:34
Well there's an edition change I missed. Regen seems rather less than it was. Back to the good old helmet then.

Bret Lord
Barded Warhorse
Questing Vow
Great Weapon
Gromril Great Helm (add one point to armour, re-roll armour saves)
Insignia of the Quest (3+ ward when reduced to one wound)

Which leaves me 40 points to muck about with.

I want toughness and grinding capability really, rather than a duelist.

russellmoo
28-06-2011, 17:23
There's always the potion of toughness

Glen_Savet
28-06-2011, 17:26
Or the healing potion for that matter.

Trains_Get_Robbed
29-06-2011, 01:16
Also, think of general vows you can give him or unit buffs. This guy would sound great with the Crown of Command (gives stubborn to him and thus, to any unit he joins; Enchanted item) if its already not on your Prophetess.

samw
29-06-2011, 15:31
Also, think of general vows you can give him or unit buffs. This guy would sound great with the Crown of Command (gives stubborn to him and thus, to any unit he joins; Enchanted item) if its already not on your Prophetess.

Cheers for the suggestion. I do have the points. Crown and Banner of Discipline on the unit, stubborn on LD10, correct? Or am I misreading? Might take the dragon gem for the last 5 points anyway, always helpful against sneaky lore of metal types and all that fire stuff that's out there now.

Prophetess, horse and chalice of malfleur then? Seems enough. Or would she be better on foot at the back than riding around with the knights? I've heard two damsels is an acceptable alternative, is this true?

Peg heroes seem better now with combined profile, worth getting a paladin if one already has pegasus knights?

Woodsman
29-06-2011, 22:37
He can't join the peggy knights so; no.
I sometimes do run a lord on a peggy with, Gromil hat, stubborn scarf and someone's lockett - he holds up units on his own and just flies around shouting "Look at me, look at me; I can fly"*

I think the prophet is worth it in knights; MR2 is handy and 3/4+ to dispell is really why I take her - I don't cast too much high powered magik. You could take one with the prayer icon in a unit on foot - just to bolster a unit of peasants - don't reallt bother myself but there's that option.

*This occurs only in the realms of my head!

russellmoo
30-06-2011, 00:06
I really like the crown of command on the prophetess,or a damsel- since she sits in the middle of the knights it gives you a stubborn unit-

As far as peasants go- a damsel with beasts (take the signature spell unless you roll and get transformation) plus the prayer icon of quenelles- your 40-50 peasants now have the blessing making them quite durable- when they get into combat, throw 6 dice, to get the IF/miscast, you now have T4, Str 5 peasants plus they get a 5+ ward against the explosion while your opponent hopefully will not be so lucky-

samw
01-07-2011, 14:38
Hey guys, cheers for your assistance. Thought I'd post the list here first since the feedback's been really helpful.

Bretonnian Lord -249
Barded Warhorse
Questing Vow
Great Weapon
Insignia of the Quest
Gromril Great Helm
Crown of Command
Dragonsbane Gem

Prophetess -240
Level 4
Horse

Paladin -129
BSB
Barded Warhorse
Warbanner
Virtue of Duty

8 Knights of the Realm -216
Command

8 Knights of the Realm -216
Command

30 Peasant Longbowmen -205
Command
Braziers

10 Skirmishing Longbowmen -70

3 Pegasus Knights -165

8 Questing Knights -226
Command
Banner of Discipline

Trebuchet -90

Trebuchet -90

Total 1946

So, 54 points left to spend. Up for some retooling if you guys have any suggestions. I know the command on the archers is unusual but considering they're a big block I thought it was worth it, not like standards give VP, and musician can help with reforms if necessary.

Plan is Lord with the Questers, Paladin and Prophetess in a Kotr each, archers defend the trebs, Peg knights go for enemy warmachines and skirmishers trigger terrain and take potshots.

Any comment or criticism would be most welcome, thanks.

Rama
18-07-2011, 05:58
yes u can use breath weapons in combat , see special rules / breath wp. =]

Glen_Savet
18-07-2011, 06:01
The lance that gives a breath attack specifies it cannot be used in close combat though. Unless it was errata'd without me seeing it.

Rama
18-07-2011, 07:51
thx for correction on it being the lance was the question not just breath weapon rule =]