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teleologica
11-07-2010, 14:23
There are a couple of threads running (raging ;)) about whether or not frenzy and extra attacks from different sources stack. I don't want to duplicate that, but have a related question.

Frenzy does not transmit from rider to mount or vice versa. Simple enough. However, this does not mean that both can't have frenzy from the same source.

What I am wondering is if Mark of Khorne gives Chaos Knights' mounts frenzy. The AB army list entry allows you to buy a mark "for the unit". The entry for Mark of Khorne says the "model" gains frenzy.

So does "unit" in this context mean all of the models in the unit? And does "model" in this context mean all parts of the model? IN fact, the same principle would presumably apply to other models with the mark, eg Exalted on Juggernaut or Chaos Lord on Dragon.

If anyone can see a rule that answers this definitively that I'm missing, I'd be grateful. If not, I'd just like to know your opinions!

Harwammer
12-07-2010, 08:58
Frenzy does not transmit from rider to mount or vice versa. Simple enough. However, this does not mean that both can't have frenzy from the same source.

What I am wondering is if Mark of Khorne gives Chaos Knights' mounts frenzy. The AB army list entry allows you to buy a mark "for the unit". The entry for Mark of Khorne says the "model" gains frenzy.

So does "unit" in this context mean all of the models in the unit? And does "model" in this context mean all parts of the model? IN fact, the same principle would presumably apply to other models with the mark, eg Exalted on Juggernaut or Chaos Lord on Dragon.

The horses are an inseperable part of the knight model and unquestionably part of the unit so it seems fair they get frenzy. For characters it seems you pay for the mark specifically for the character so perhaps their mounts are unaffected?.

teleologica
12-07-2010, 11:01
Yeah, that sort of makes sense. (Except in fluff terms when you have a Khorne Exalted who is frenzied, riding a Juggernaut of Khorne which isn't ... :wtf: :))

Problem is that the wording under Mark of Khorne is simple - "the model has frenzy". This doesn't change between characters and knights. Gah. Confuzzed.

the Goat
12-07-2010, 11:31
The intent of the rule seems to be that only the rider gain frenzy the extra attack. But the rules as written could easily affect the mount also.

Witchblade
12-07-2010, 13:46
As in 7th, the BRB's use of the term 'model' is very unclear.

Eta
16-07-2010, 14:18
The same question came up in a game today. We played it that the Khorne marked knights / Banner of Rage frenzied knights had frenzied horses whereas the Exalted Hero of Khorne did not give frenzy to his Juggernaut. Unfluffy, but that seemed to fit best with the RAW.

Any new input / ideas / interpretation on this matter?

Greetings
Eta

dwarfchosen
16-07-2010, 16:58
On page 82 of the BRB it states (paraphrasing) that if the rider has frenzy then the mount is subject to the Berserk Rage but that only the the element with the Frenzy rule gets the extra attack.

So reading that all the mounts would get the rage part of the rule just not the extra attack.

It would then seem that decision comes down to who exactly is buying the mark of Khorne. The marauder horsemen and Knights rules say, "the unit may have" so that would include the horses. So in this case the horse('s) also get an extra attack.

Within the Chaos Lord profile it states that you have to have the appropriate mark before you can buy a mount so it could be argued that the lord gets his Mark and then goes looking for a Juggernaut to ride into battle on, hence the mount only gets the benefit as outlined above.

Paraelix
16-07-2010, 23:00
riding a Juggernaut of Khorne which isn't ... :wtf: :))

Daemons Juggers aren't Frenzied. And neither are their troops.

Mr.chair
17-07-2010, 16:39
God only knows this question could NEVER be answered in the FAQ! We've sort of had the same conversation at my LGS. I think the conclusion was that MoK doesn't give the horses frenzy, but an item like the banner of rage does. I would say it's all ambiguous enough that you should always check to see how you opponent plays it and dice for it if there's a disagreement.