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View Full Version : 8th ed, 1K WE vs LM



Gormereth, the Fearmonger
11-07-2010, 16:40
1000 point game

My army:
3 Treekin
10 Glade Guard with standard and champion
10 Dryads with champion
10 Wardancer with champion
Branchwraith with Cluster
Highborn with the 2+ armour and the rarely uses "Spirit Sword"

His army:
2 Scar-vets
2 units of ~18 Saurus (f/c as far as I know)
10 Skink Skirmishers
2 Salamanders
3 Terradons

We get "Dawn Attack"
All of his stuff ins in the centre

Treekin are on my left flank, everything else on the right.

Turn 1:
He goes first and moves up.

I move up putting my treekin in a wood directly infront, turns out to be Wyldwood.

Turn 2:
One Sally and the skins put two wounds on the treekin. Other sally puts wounds on the Wardancers but I roll two 6s.

The two saurus blocks with characters are right infront of me (treekin can't handle that alone and I need to flank with my wardancers or I'd just be suiciding the dryads). Troops on the right move up the flank, treekin on the left stay in the forest and reposition to charge the sallys...and loses 2 wounds to the wyldwood. Shooting can't hit anything because sallies and Terries are "Skirmishers".

Turn 3:
He is just moving around, Sallies eat most of theier handlers, but treekin lose 3 wounds from wyldwood and Terry Javilins kill a glade guard.

The sally marched away from my treekin so I reposition, the Guard kill one terry and the rest move up the front.

Turn 4:
terries keep flying around, sally on the right kills falls short of the wardancers, skinks put a wound on the treekin.

The Sally is in the front arc of the Treekin so I charge, it flees and I fail charge. Otherwise I move into a charge position with dryads in the front and wardancers in the flank and reduce the terridons to one model.

Turn 5:
He kills ~3 wardancers with one sally & rallies the other, but charges the last terry into the front of my glade guard (which promptly kill it).

I charge the Sally again with the last Treekin (who has one wound left), and one of the saurus block with Wardancers (with the Highborn) and Dryads with the Branchwraith...the wardancers fail charge because I roll a 6 on 2 dice.

The treekin narrowly avoids losing his lat wound to the Sally going first, failed charge puts the wardancers in the perfect position to be flamed (the Sally doesn't even have to move), and the dryads get decimated with the over run bringing the saurus ~6" away from the archers.

Turn 6:
Kills the Treekin with shooting, wipes out the archers, sally kills everything except on wardancer and the Highborn.

He moved the second saurus block close enough to charge, it's bottom of 6 and I can't possible win so I declare a charge...and fail that too.

Analysis

I lost 5/9 wounds to wyldwood, what else can I say; even treekin can't sit in the forest if you roll a 3 or a 6.

I took a large unit of Wardancers think that the deficiet between WE and other races would be reduced at lower level games and 10 with a Highborn might do something...wrong.

His skinks and sallies were impossible to hit, they can march and shoot and get completely out line of sight by just march (and they never failed the Ld test). This rule makes skirmishers with ranged weapons more powerful because they can hit the enemy and get out the charge arc and what I need was a support unit to really kill them.

Without a musician anything that gets behind my GG turns them into a "Move or Fire" unit unless I want to shoot at some thing really far away and expose my rear.

With my Treekin It felt like I couldn't move them; if I face one unit they just march out of the way, if I stay in the forest I get hit with wyldwood, If I moveout the block of 18 saurus + Character is waiting (I have to kill like 6-7 or else even if I win they'll be stubborn 8 (CB)) and 3 treekin would likely struggle against that before losing 2 wounds. The best option in retrospect would have been to just run away with the lat treekin...but Skinks are M6 so He can't march far enough, I expose my rear, they can still shoot, and I still might risk a flank charge fro the saurus block.

Overall:

It feels like a reversal of fortunes where I'm now the one unable to get to my opponent (I move up he move back, I move to guarentee the charge and there's the flanking unit), however WE were always paper-thin yet priced at a minimum of 12 pts/model because of this...now we are the ones that have to tank the damage but we're way easier to kill, we cost more way more. Additionally we can't tke advantage of these techniques; most of our skirmishers are close combat dedicated and those that do cast as much as most knights. Scouts and Waywatcher and warhawks and glade riders cost too much and just do not have the volume of shots to effectivelt distract an opponent while being T3 with little to no saves to protect them from enemy magic and shooting, but cost so much that they not only do you field fewer threats to be able to play them they become a high prior target for eay victory points.

It feel like we have to move up and get into combat with our combat troops immediately because they'll be wiped out or there won't be enough of them left to break the unit if we wait too long...but our shooting can't damage them enough at long range and it's mostly suicide at short. And every enemy can basically be stubborn 8 or 9, but usually we will get blasted so badly that if we don't do something to stop the bleeding that's basically gameover. Every army I've faced in 8th has feel like a Thorik Gunline (before errata'd to one re-roll per game) with the exception of a Vampire player who turtled when he didn't have any range magic.

Every unit needs supporting units now (with the possible exception of the Treeman) can these have to be numerous yet effective so I can't ee any WE army that is not mass Glade Guard and Dryads. We need our treemen and treekin to punch through the damage because WE were never given anything else to punch though models that can take mass punishment, but with more characters, stronger magic, and accurate warmachines these can be killed so easily. we don't have good places to put our characters, need the musician to really take adavantage of our manueverability, and now we can't really slow down an enemy that wants to get to us.

The only option I see is Eternal Guard, who (in this new addition) are over priced spearmen in the same way Glade Guard that never get into short range equate to being are over-priced archers, and there are so many things wrong with that.

SevenSins
11-07-2010, 17:43
your evaluations are, unfortunately, quite true. Wood Elves are one of the loosers in 8th, going from unforgiving (and sometimes extremely annoying) to next to useless....

nice rep though.

Seabo
11-07-2010, 18:17
All depends on your playstyle and flexibility.
Beastmen went from being powerhouses in 6th to a joke in 7th but I stuck with them and tried to adapt, not very successfully mind you but still tried :D.
Just try something new.

Gormereth, the Fearmonger
11-07-2010, 19:00
I am trying losts of things with WE (short of mass Eternal Guard), but the more I play the more I get a sense of the general feel of 8th: the more " if 's " or " variables" that are involved in your strategy, the moer it fails. When I played as Lizardmen a few days ago my plan was to buf with the lore of Light...but because LM troops are of low iniative and WS I needed to get multiple augments off or against they would count for little against high elves...and it was difficult to combo.

How my LM opponent here played another game right after ours with WOC and took Life on his slannand dominated. Knowing all of life mean no chance of not getting the spell you need, having regen, +2 toughness, ignore miscast, and what was potentially D6 S6 hits seemed like a VC magic phase in 7th (i.e. he attempts multiple spells as part of his stategy, but you have to stop every attempt because if any of them go off his unit will dominate that turn...just like raising skeletons). On top of that he had regrowth to fix things is something went wrong (the way hatred buffers charging Dark Elves from wiffing their attacks and how ASF does that for High Elves now)

Wood elves need to get into the flank, successfully, charge, needs to perform in combat, often needs their opponent to under perform in combat, if they do win often needs a stubborn unit to fail its breaktest to avoid getting flanked, and our point costs mean that we really can't afford to just lose a unit here or there (or vey many at least). I just feels like victory in 8th centres around having a broken combo that is both very reliable and lacking of conditions to get the combo off (and whom ever gets it off first wins), but WE seem to lack both of these needed qualities.

Seabo
11-07-2010, 20:21
Actually thinking of taking up Wood Elves as i enjoy the challenge ;).
Not sure what i taking yet but the tactics and whiney threads are helping :p

Gormereth, the Fearmonger
11-07-2010, 22:55
Actually thinking of taking up Wood Elves as i enjoy the challenge ;).
Not sure what i taking yet but the tactics and whiney threads are helping :p

There definately will be challenges to playing Wood Elves. Right now I'm considering fielding an army with nothing but archers, dryads, and minimal heros.

Sloppyjayman
12-07-2010, 13:32
Interesting report.

I don't think the salamanders can move and shoot? Can someone check this. If they cant that is a major reason for the WE loss.

Zaszz
12-07-2010, 14:44
I wouldn't run WE without a lvl 4 with lore of life. The buffs and healing go a long way to making the army work now. That along with some treekin and GG bricks and if the points allow it a EG brick, and a treeman. Most of the rest of the units are too expensive now for what they do. The lore of life feature is very nice with treekin and treeman as well, letting you heal a wound for every cast you get off :p