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sturguard
11-07-2010, 16:53
Hey folks,

I am still anxiously awaiting my BRB, in the meantime I was hoping some fellow dark elf players could answer some questions for me-

First, when a unit is hit by a cannonball can you choose which model takes the first hit? Ie. Let's say I have a character in the front rank of some black guard which is shot by a cannon. I allocate the first hit on the character who has the Cloak of Hag Graef and the enchanted shield. The cannon is now reduced to str 5 correct and wounds on a 2+ but most importantly I would get a 3+ save (heavy armor, enchanted shield, sea dragon cloak)- you could combine this with a ward save as well to better your odds of survival- which if I made the save would stop the cannonball. Against bolt throwers it would work even better of course. I just didn't know if the new rules allowed you to allocate the hit.

Second, pertaining to the above question- if a character was mounted on a dragon or manticore could he again choose to take the hits instead of the mount? Against droves of arrows you would choose to let the dragon take it, but against bolt throwers or spells you could take it.

Third- do mages have to be in the front rank to cast spells or do they just need line of sight? I.e. could I use the focus familiar to sit in the back rank of a unit of spearmen and case spells by using the familiar to cast from outside the unit. I had heard some talk about some other characters not having to sit in the front rank (I think it was tomb kings) so that got me thinking.

Finally, on a side note, does anyone think the 8th edition rules really kind of swing the black guard vs. executioners even further in the black guard court? I was building my army during 7th edition to be ready for 8th and even though black guard are almost better than executioners in every way (especially since I was going to run a CoB in my army) with the stepping up rule black guard with the Hag Graef banner just seem to shine. In 7th, I could see kind of protecting the executioners with an assasin to eliminate many of the incoming attacks to the executioners but now it would be almost irrelevant. I mean BG getting to strike first, and rerolling wounds because they have higher initiative than most, not to mention having 3 strikes each with the CoB or killing blow as the executioners seems a no brainer. The icing on the cake is that you can take a unit champ and give him the whip of agony and add another 4 str 5 attacks or add in Kouran for 15 more point for lots of str 6 nastiness. Just some thoughts.

Lord Zarkov
11-07-2010, 17:03
1)
The Cannon is a special type of template (same as in 7th and 6th) - the models hit are those under the template (i.e. the line drawn by the cannon passes through).
Bolt Throwers (and other non-template ranged hits) use the normal shooting rules so can't hit a character unless he's a diferent unit type to his unit or if there's less than 5 RnF models (then it's random)

2) Cannon (and other templates): all parts of the model are hit; Other ranged attacks randomise.

3)
They don't need to be in the front rank specifically, but remember characters have to be placed in the front rank unless it is already filled with other characters and Command models.

4)
ASF gives re-roll to hit not to wound, so ASF is useless on black guard unless you're fighting something with a higher initiative.

theunwantedbeing
11-07-2010, 17:32
4)
ASF gives re-roll to hit not to wound, so ASF is useless on black guard unless you're fighting something with a higher initiative.

Or something that has ASF itself as you then negate any re-rolls they might be getting.

Tae
11-07-2010, 17:34
Hmm, I was going to go on about how Cannons ignore armour saves, but that rule seems to have been removed, although if it is S10 when it hits you it wont allow armour saves purely through the negative modifier.

Although Bolt Throwers do still ignore armour saves, so the OPs example wouldn't work against BTs (though would against Cannons)

Lord Zarkov
11-07-2010, 17:45
Or something that has ASF itself as you then negate any re-rolls they might be getting.

You're right that it's useful vs other models with ASF (although only if they are a lower initiative) as it will mean you'll strike before them; but it won't negate re-rolls - the conditions for re-rolls are a) you have ASF and b) you have a higher initiative than your opponent - whether or not your opponent has ASF or not is irrelavent.

Tae
11-07-2010, 17:52
You're right that it's useful vs other models with ASF (although only if they are a lower initiative) as it will mean you'll strike before them; but it won't negate re-rolls - the conditions for re-rolls are a) you have ASF and b) you have a higher initiative than your opponent - whether or not your opponent has ASF or not is irrelavent.

Incorrect. The ASF entry states:

If a model with this rule is fighting an enemy with the same ability, the Attacks are made simultaneously and neither model benefits from the re-rolls normally granted by this rule

Lord Zarkov
11-07-2010, 17:58
Oops, my mistake - missed the last paragraph.

Do you know how to do a strikethrough effect on my pervious post?