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AUN'SHI
11-07-2010, 19:45
Ok so maybe it's just me but why would anyone ever take corsairs other than just to play a fun/story game?

In a competitive nature id say the DE warriors/archer are just the better choice. I feel as though the corsairs are way to over priced for what they do (basically not very much if anything at all) and other than being cool models I would never use them which is to bad.

So here is my explanation:

Warriors cheaper, fight in more ranks, easier to get stubborn, 5+ save

corsairs have th slaver rule, extra attack (which really means nothing as spear elves get the same amount due to ranks) seadragon cloak so 4+ save in far combat.

So they have better defence against shooting which is off set in the fact that they actually cost more so no real advantage there. Slaver rule well ya
not worth the extra point that the corsairs cost.

so they can get a reapeter handbow which goes a whopping 8" really a bleeding SLING SHOT goes further like wtf:mad:

It's to bad that there is no way I can think of to use the corsairs in a competitive nature.

I think warhammer should give these guys a proper FAQ and make them actually worth their points realitive to the DE army.... at least make them usable.

Denny_Crane
11-07-2010, 20:01
I agree, make them as effective as spearman and they will sell like hotcakes.

Tyrannus
11-07-2010, 20:02
two different roles really then the spearmen. Spearmen are much more defense. My units of corsairs put out roughly29 attacks against a unit 5 wide my spearmen only 16. you combine either with cauldron and usually the corsairs will be much more successful i think. I use one unit of each, corsair unit is a bit cheaper (I use a larger unit of spearmen) but corsairs usually get me there points plus more back where as the spears usually just hold a unit until i get help there.

Vandelan
11-07-2010, 20:14
Corsairs serve a decent purpose of guarding unit while equipped with handbows. A unit of 10 will be getting 20 shots when charged, and can go on the offensive for the same number of shots. They're not as amazing for almost any other purpose when compared to other units.

A large unit of hw corsairs are nothing to scoff at when they have the SSS giving them frenzy and they get to run around with a decent save against anything not close combat.

They're pretty much just a better mobile unit than spearmen or crossbowmen, but they're still not really worth the amount of points, they perhaps should have been 1-2 points less.

AUN'SHI
11-07-2010, 21:07
well they can shoot and all but I feel the corsairs NEED and FAQ to be actually usable.

And they can get frenzy costing more points :rolleyes: but the warriors can go longer and deeper for almost the same points giving way more attacks. I have to say the coraisr just plain and simple are not usable in a competitive nature.

sigur
11-07-2010, 21:10
Cute, I'm sure that many will remember how despised warriors were when the new army book were relased.

Wakerofgods
11-07-2010, 21:37
Compared to many things out there in the warhammer game I dont think these are screaming out for a buff.

In fact if this is the worst thing in your book I would count yourself very, very lucky.

Although that being said I do understand your pain.

Tae
11-07-2010, 21:42
They have a better save than spearmen, can pump out the same amount of attacks in 2 ranks that spearmen can in 3, can be given a frenzy banner and have the slaver rule.

I think Corsairs are correctly priced, however Warriors are slightly undercosted.

enygma7
11-07-2010, 21:54
I did come up with a tactic posted in the DE tacticae thread of taking a unit of 30 with handbows and rending standard in horde formation, advancing to handbow range and letting rip 40 shots, standing and shooting with 40 shots and then likely going 1st in combat with 30 re-rollable attacks. That'll put a serious dent in most core infantry formations.

Whilst I believe there is a strong case for corsairs being less good for their points than spearmen or crossbows it's also the case that they're usable in all but the must uber competetive of environments. They fulfill a different role to crossbows and spears which makes them takeable even if they are a few points overcosted. 8th ed allowing them to fire in 2 ranks and attack first against a lot of charging opponents has given them a buff and the slavers rule helps wipe the enemy out rather than letting them come back to haunt you later or rally to deny you any VPs.

Gazak Blacktoof
11-07-2010, 22:00
I'm going to try a unit of 20 with handbows and a magic banner once I pick up a copy of the new rules this week (I gave in to the new shiny) because I like the models and want to try to make them work. I estimate that they should be failry useful against high elves as they can get a couple of volleys off before combat, I think there might even be the potential for 3 volleys if I can threaten flanks.

I'll be using a unit of 30 spear elves too which cost a similar number of points so that I can compare the two in their respective roles. I think that both of them will perform well, whether the corsirs will perform better in their role than a unit of reapter crossbows only time and gaming will tell.

Vandelan
11-07-2010, 22:11
well they can shoot and all but I feel the corsairs NEED and FAQ to be actually usable.

And they can get frenzy costing more points :rolleyes: but the warriors can go longer and deeper for almost the same points giving way more attacks. I have to say the coraisr just plain and simple are not usable in a competitive nature.

Except that Corsairs are made to be a mobile charge unit, while spearmen are a defensive unit that suffers penalties from charging by being able to attack in one rank less.

Windir83
11-07-2010, 22:52
I thought spears always fight with an additional rank in the new edition, regardless of charging. was that just a rumour?

Vandelan
11-07-2010, 22:54
I thought spears always fight with an additional rank in the new edition, regardless of charging. was that just a rumour?

Just a rumor. I looked it up in my copy and they do not receive the bonus rank attacks on the turn they charged.

Col. Dash
11-07-2010, 23:20
Banner of murder and handbows make them pretty nasty against normal infantry. I plan on running a unit of 20. Odds are I will get at least the stand and shoot and the first strike. Thats alot of hits and possible wounds and forced saves. Someone will fail even against knights.

Oh yeah, and they are one of the coolest looking models in the GW range.

RulesJD
11-07-2010, 23:37
First, I don't spend a great deal of time min/maxing every model in an army book. I choose armies and models because something about the fluff and/or model appearance appeals to me.

Second, I built my DE during sixth edition and chose the Raiders of Naggaroth list for a themed campaign. Corsairs were the mainstay. I really liked the models with sea dragon cloaks.

Third, Corsairs may not be an accountants dream but, they can do things that spearmen cannot. They can dish out 16 attacks in 2 ranks while spears can only do that with 3 ranks. So, the corsairs can afford to lose more back rank models while preserving their fight ability. They have better armor protection, especially in the enhanced shooting/magic culture so they have some extra durability. Corsairs can take banners that allow frenzy or armor piercing. That makes those front rank models far more dangerous than spears.

I will build more corsair models given the 50% minimum. They may not give me a mathematical advantage in tournament play but, they'll look good and be fun for me to play. (I don't play math hammer anyway.)

ftayl5
12-07-2010, 01:44
I was thinking about this a few days ago.
A unit of 20 Spears will get 10 (excluding champion) attacks on the charge, 15 if charged.
A unit of 20 Corsairs will get 15 attacks either way.
So Corsairs are a much more offensive unit, Spearmen needing to be charged in order to do well. Corsairs also have a nice save against shooting which enforces their offensive role.
But of course, Corsairs cost more....
I think they're both usable, but the Spearmen are better

SideshowLucifer
12-07-2010, 02:11
Corsairs are great. I tend to run them with the AP banner so their handows actualy cause a lot of issues for my opponents. It's spearmen that I don't use. Almost any other unit performs better in more roles.

Gazak Blacktoof
12-07-2010, 06:59
Regarding AP: I saw a post in another thread that AP now only applies to close combat in 8th unless staed otherwise- for example repeater crossbows- so I'm not usre if dark elves can actualy get AP repeater handbows in 8th edition.

Memnos
12-07-2010, 07:15
In the new edition, Corsairs get many more attacks on the charge than spearmen.

30 corsairs, set up 6*5 would get, with corsairs: 19 attacks on the charge(Potentially 25 with frenzy).

30 corsairs, set up 6*5 would get, with spearmen: 13 attacks on the charge.

Corsairs have a 5+ save in combat and a 4+ save at range.

Spearmen have a 5+ save in combat and a 5+ save at range.

(EDIT: I put 4+ save for the spearmen at range. I was wrong. Thanks, Petey!)

Petey
12-07-2010, 07:27
In the new edition, Corsairs get many more attacks on the charge than spearmen.

30 corsairs, set up 6*5 would get, with corsairs: 19 attacks on the charge(Potentially 25 with frenzy).

30 corsairs, set up 6*5 would get, with spearmen: 13 attacks on the charge.

Corsairs have a 5+ save in combat and a 4+ save at range.

Spearmen have a 5+ save in combat and a 4+ save at range.

How exactly do spearmen get a 4+AS at range?

Here s a thought. Charging with 10 Corsairs = 15A. Corsairs being charged = 15A. Same Corsairs w/ handbow 20 shots reaction fire w/ BS3 then 10A. I think they have a new use, harassment.

Adjustquantity
12-07-2010, 09:10
Here s a thought. Charging with 10 Corsairs = 15A. Corsairs being charged = 15A. Same Corsairs w/ handbow 20 shots reaction fire w/ BS3 then 10A. I think they have a new use, harassment.

That's exactly what I do with my corsairs and in my last 2 games they were my hero of the battle despite me losing both of the games!

SideshowLucifer
12-07-2010, 11:18
Regarding AP: I saw a post in another thread that AP now only applies to close combat in 8th unless staed otherwise- for example repeater crossbows- so I'm not usre if dark elves can actualy get AP repeater handbows in 8th edition.

I'e not seen that. I'll have to double check that.

bernh
12-07-2010, 11:23
I'e not seen that. I'll have to double check that.

AP only for close combat attacks by default. But there are good common magic banners for corsairs - +1 move or flaming attacks (2nd better for rXbmen though).

The SkaerKrow
12-07-2010, 11:27
They're a sub-optimal unit, and have been for a long time. Sure, Corsairs may get more attacks on the charge, but with the charge being seriously devalued by 8th Edition and numbers meaning as much as they do, the Dark Elf Warrior still eclipses the Corsair as a unit.

Max_Killfactor
12-07-2010, 11:34
Corsairs aren't awful, but there are better choices in a Dark Elf army. If they were 2 points less, I'd take them. If they were one point less, I'm not sure.

Yes, they hit harder than Spearmen when charging, but that's not saying much. Every other infantry unit we have (except RxBs obviously) hit harder than Corsairs when charging.

Still, I don't think they are a terrible choice, and I don't blame people for taking them. Really nice models.

madden
12-07-2010, 11:47
I use them one unit of 20 with extra weapon flanked by a unit of ten with bows on each side almost like detachments they always work for me and of course the models are awesome.

Grimmeth
12-07-2010, 14:56
I think that, with getting the charge not being such a big issue now Corsairs are much better armed with a handbow, park the unit within 8" of an enemy and get off some shots, get off some more shots when they charge (stand and shoot) or hope they fluff their charge roll and get even more shots off, then get your attacks with hatred.
For added amusement consider dropping an assassin in there ;)