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Time of Madness
12-07-2010, 00:42
With the new edition upon us the Lizardmen have access to one of the best lord level casters available - The Slann.

It doesn't even make sense to look at even including another character in the list. If you do want to include an additional character or two then the scar vet would be the best option.

So my questions is what do you think will be the best build for the Slann in 8th edition.

Here's what I've been looking at taking.

Slann (BSB)
- Cupped Hands
- Higher State of Consciousness
- Focused Rumination
= 395pts

Provides LD10 and a bsb in one. With the ability to re-direct a single miscast and be immune to non magical attacks.

Time of Madness

Nicha11
12-07-2010, 00:59
Slann, BSB, Rumination, Mystery, Cognition, Cupped Hands

total:450pts

Knows all spells, gets a free dice, removes 6's from an enemy spell caster, bounces miscasts and provides re-rolls.
All in a nice bundle.

diggerydoom
12-07-2010, 01:04
With the new edition upon us the Lizardmen have access to one of the best lord level casters available - The Slann.

It doesn't even make sense to look at even including another character in the list. If you do want to include an additional character or two then the scar vet would be the best option.

So my questions is what do you think will be the best build for the Slann in 8th edition.

Here's what I've been looking at taking.

Slann (BSB)
- Cupped Hands
- Higher State of Consciousness
- Focused Rumination
= 395pts

Provides LD10 and a bsb in one. With the ability to re-direct a single miscast and be immune to non magical attacks.

Time of Madness

Slann are only Ld 9 :(

I have gone with Focused Rumination, Focus of Mystery, BSB, Dispel Scroll and Lore of Life.

Cupped Hands is to many points for the list.

Nighthawke
12-07-2010, 01:21
just popping i here to say you lot do know that if you make your slaan and bsb and you flee comabt he dies automatically right?

Dreadgrass
12-07-2010, 01:45
True, but a slann BSB with The +1LD banner and a Templeguard Bodyguard has stubborn, cold blooded, LD10 with BSB re-roll... so essentially you need to roll 2 6's plus either a 6 or a 5... twice...

Alltaken
12-07-2010, 04:28
True, but a slann BSB with The +1LD banner and a Templeguard Bodyguard has stubborn, cold blooded, LD10 with BSB re-roll... so essentially you need to roll 2 6's plus either a 6 or a 5... twice...

Whats the math on that? less than 15%?

Dreadgrass
12-07-2010, 04:45
well, theres 216 options when rolling 3 dice (6x6x6), 4 options of these (6,6,6 + 5,6,6 + 6,5,6 + 6,6,5) would lead to a failed LD test. So odds are 4 in 216 or 1 in 54, less than 2%. To do that twice in a row..... (If my maths is incorrect someone please advise, done quickly in my head...)

HeroFox
12-07-2010, 05:03
Slann, BSB, Rumination, Mystery, Cognition, Cupped Hands

total:450pts

Knows all spells, gets a free dice, removes 6's from an enemy spell caster, bounces miscasts and provides re-rolls.
All in a nice bundle.

This is the build.

Vsurma
12-07-2010, 05:11
You never lose combat by 0, you have to lose combat by at least one.

So essentially you have ld9 at that point, so that adds quite a lot of extra combinations.
You end up with either ld9 when you lose by 1, or the temple guards stubborn ld8.

The banner does more for other units than itself, but the TG unit really never runs anyway so it's all good. Worth taking for sure!

Your math works if someone casts a spell that forces a ld check though.

I had fun with 2 slanns at 2400pts.
Slann rumination, death
Slann rumination, life, scroll, BSB.

If I was running just 1 it would depend on the lore.

If I ran death I would take the magic carpet for some purple sun flanking goodness.
Otherwise, rumination, mystery, cognition would likely do it.

As for defence every empire and dwarf army will have 2 cannons and since LOS only works against templates you will likely want some defence.

Ethereal + 5pt item for 2+ ward vs fire or the 2+ ward vs ranged attacks seem good.
Magic res 2, also gives the slann a 2+ ward vs magic and a 5+ to his unit.

Plenty of options.

If you have the lore of life you need less protection as you can heal.

Dreadgrass
12-07-2010, 05:17
Sorry, I don't have the new BRB yet, but I believe that units with stubborn now confer it to characters that are within the unit?

On another note, I'm doing an escalating tournament for learning 8th, at 1500pts my slann will probably be:

Slann, Focused Rumination, Becalming Cogitation, plus cupped hands if I don't want to go life or Plaque of Tepok + a few other trinkets if I'm using Life (and thus Throne of Vines) 370pts with cupped hands, from the 375pt Lord cap at 1500pts.

Vsurma
12-07-2010, 05:53
Yea seems your right. Just check under the stubborn entry your correct.

Well stubborn on ld10 then with the banner :=)

Granted stubborn on ld8 with cold blooded is already something like 95% success rate, this probably ups it to 98% or something. Still the ld10 for the other units is amazing.

Dreadgrass, life is good for armies with TG, I wouldn't bother with it otherwise. Is this your only mage?

If it is dispel scroll is the way to go, if you have a scroll elsewhere then power scroll is mean. After the first tournament (yesterday) the organisers are already planning on banning this items.

Too many lord level mages or characters where killed turn 1 because an opponent threw 6 dice and the power scroll on some character killing spell.

Say dwellers below from life, 50% chance to kill a S3 mage.
Pit of shades on a slann out of a unit (unlikely scenario)
Purple sun as above
Final transmutation if you get really lucky...

Mostly dwellers below though.

Not that it makes for the best game if you always kill the opponents mage on turn 1.

Dreadgrass
12-07-2010, 06:14
TG indeed, it's one of the major themes of my planned list, Also, at 1500pts the slann above is (at this points bracket at least) my only mage, I can almost guarantee I'll be facing off against Grey Seers and Vampire Lords within the campaign, hence the Cogitation, and since I can't fit in the Focus of Mystery as well, I was looking at the Plaque... I daresay the D.scroll would take up my Arcane Item allotment, so any suggestions on what to buy with the remaining points?

Tenken
12-07-2010, 06:25
mystery, cogitation (or was it rumination? I forget the +1 dice one), ethereal, and MR3 one. Flying carpet, other items to taste (cupped hands comes to mind).

This is a good second slann for large games. Thanks to being ethereal and MR3 he'll be practically unkillable except by super combat characters, which he can pretty easily avoid thanks to being flying. Works great for lore of death, since you don't have to worry about purple sun eating your unit, good with lore of shadows too for penumbral pendulum.

Vsurma
12-07-2010, 06:28
Still a 11% chance (by my count) of rolling a miscast, having it not scatter of your slann and failing your init test. This is every time you cast the purple sun.

I think you would prefer to be in a unit when casting for the LOS roll.

Only 4 spells on that slann though Tenken, full lore might be worth adding unless you have other mages.

Tenken
12-07-2010, 06:34
Still a 11% chance (by my count) of rolling a miscast, having it not scatter of your slann and failing your init test. This is every time you cast the purple sun.

I think you would prefer to be in a unit when casting for the LOS roll.

Only 4 spells on that slann though Tenken, full lore might be worth adding unless you have other mages.

Focus of mystery is all spells.:eyebrows: Also with MR 3 you get a 2+ ward save vs purple sun if it misfires (you do get wards saves against it right? I forget off the top of my head). Those odds are good enough for me, but honestly I wouldn't hardly use that spell anyhow except against things like orcs, ogres, dwarves, and other lizzie players.

Vsurma
12-07-2010, 07:27
Focus of mystery is all spells.:eyebrows: Also with MR 3 you get a 2+ ward save vs purple sun if it misfires (you do get wards saves against it right? I forget off the top of my head). Those odds are good enough for me, but honestly I wouldn't hardly use that spell anyhow except against things like orcs, ogres, dwarves, and other lizzie players.

Ward saves are for spells that cause wounds, pit and purple sun force an init test, death results for failed ones.

No wounds caused so no ward saves allowed.

Agnar the Howler
12-07-2010, 08:16
My build is Slann, Focus of Mystery, Focussed Rumination, Divine Plaque or Protection, Cupped Hands and BSB for 425pts.


Slann, BSB, Rumination, Mystery, Cognition, Cupped Hands

total:450pts

Knows all spells, gets a free dice, removes 6's from an enemy spell caster, bounces miscasts and provides re-rolls.
All in a nice bundle.

It's actually 445pts if my calculations are correct (not got the book to hand at the moment) =P Only a 5pt difference but every point counts.

diggerydoom
12-07-2010, 10:04
If it is dispel scroll is the way to go, if you have a scroll elsewhere then power scroll is mean. After the first tournament (yesterday) the organisers are already planning on banning this items.

Too many lord level mages or characters where killed turn 1 because an opponent threw 6 dice and the power scroll on some character killing spell.

Say dwellers below from life, 50% chance to kill a S3 mage.
Pit of shades on a slann out of a unit (unlikely scenario)
Purple sun as above
Final transmutation if you get really lucky...

Mostly dwellers below though.

Not that it makes for the best game if you always kill the opponents mage on turn 1.

There is a max of 6 dice, including power stones!

Vsurma
12-07-2010, 10:38
Power scroll not power stone.

diggerydoom
12-07-2010, 13:38
Woops my bad- although the point still stands as several people (not here) have missed that little limitation to magic dice:)

And I am not sure that the power scroll is really worth it as it always makes you miscast!

kaintxu
12-07-2010, 16:56
Slann, BSB, Rumination, Mystery, Cognition, Cupped Hands

total:450pts

Knows all spells, gets a free dice, removes 6's from an enemy spell caster, bounces miscasts and provides re-rolls.
All in a nice bundle.

I totally agree with this build.

Thats my 1 slann build

Jetty Smurf
12-07-2010, 18:34
EDIT: Post is no longer relevant.

OT: Is Focus of Mystery still worth the 50 points now that rolling a double for your spells means you get to just choose one? Would it be more viable to just use the Plaque of Tepok and save the points for something else?

Vsurma
12-07-2010, 19:06
Woops my bad- although the point still stands as several people (not here) have missed that little limitation to magic dice:)

And I am not sure that the power scroll is really worth it as it always makes you miscast!

Which is why it works best with the lore of life, casting dwellers below with throne of vines cast first. ignore miscast on 2+


I have been thinking about this a lot recently (having my first 8th ed game tomorrow) and I think I found an anti-mage setup.

Along with other things (depends on preference and army set-up) is to give the Slann a power scroll, soul of stone (to try to make the miscast result nastier) and cupped hands.

I'm looking for one, but I can't find anything that will combat this, other than bad rolling on the miscast table or losing your Slann too early in the game to something else before he gets this off.

You cannot take 2 arcane items

Jetty Smurf
12-07-2010, 19:10
Yeah, I edited my post to reflect that.