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Kerill
12-07-2010, 13:18
As per the WOC tactica here:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266118

This is a thread for posting people's initial ideas for 8th edition lists and the rationale behind their choices. I'll kick off with mine:

2250 Points


Mindwarper, Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch, level 4, DISK, blood of Tzeentch, 4+ ward talisman (so 3+ ward), charmed shield (2+ save, 2+ ignore first hit), conjoined homunculus, stream of corruption, biting blade 435 points

(will be carrying on the fluff from 7th:

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190660 )

17 Chaos Warriors, halberds, shields, Full command: banner of rage

joined by:

Exalted of Tzeentch, bsb, book of secrets, power familiar , shield 200 points
- Dropped him off the disk to save points and because the golden eye doesn't help much against magic. In 7th he got killed a lot and with death and metal both having default spells to kill him decided he needed a bit more protection. Also might need him to lead the trolls in an emergency which he can't do on a disk. Only a 3+ save and 6+ ward which is pretty poor but I didn't want to have to buy another caster. Would love to give him the 3rd eye but can't find the 25 points.

Will take death for the character sniping spell.

30 Khorne Marauders, full command

15 Tzeentch Warriors, shields, FC: rapturous standard

6 Trolls 270
- definitely want to test these big boys

3* 5 hounds 90

2* Hellcannon 410

The three units of infantry form the main battleline, anchored by a hellcannon on each side. One hellcannon will, together with the trolls and disk rider, form the flanking force for the army.

Points: 2249
Models: 89
Average PD: 8.1666
Average DD: 5.1666

Spellcasting on an average roll:

Gateway (3 dice)
Pandemonium (1/2 dice)
Treason (1/2 dice)
Flickering fire (1 die)
(ideal spell selection)

Default death spell on 2/3 dice (+2 to cast) (2 dice at 12" range, might skip it if I need the diece for the level 4)

captainAurelius
12-07-2010, 16:46
Nice Kerill. Good work in the 8th tactica thread. Your list is pretty conventional on the whole, utilising some of the new "it" choices. The exalted is a bit different though, not what I would have expected after the write up on defending your BSB in your tactica posts.

I'll throw my hat in with a 2000pts I made last night after reading your articles, it is much the same, but a couple of different choices that I think will prove popular. Onwards:

2000 Points

Socerer Lord, lvl 4, MoT, Disc, BoT, Golden Eye, Enchanted Shield
- 380

Exalted, BSB, stone of luck, shield
- 145

Exalted, MoK, Juggernaut, Halberd, stream of corruption, charmed shield
- 204

18 Chaos Warriors, shields, halberds, MoK, musician, standard
-354

26 Chaos Marauders, GW, MoK, musician, standard (Attach BSB)
-172

6 Chaos Knights, MoK
-270

6 Trolls
- 270

Hellcannon
- 205


Total 2000 points

Disc Rider is fairly standard, BSB is equipped for budget defence and Juggernaut is going solo; stream of corruption is for overkilling champions, shield for eating cannonballs; this chap might surprise the odd infantry block. Will hide him behind the Trolls for general's leadership buff. Will be running marauders 6x4 plus extras, couldn't find the points for a 30 man unit.

This would be my 8th Edition WoC list if I were to play tomorrow. Perhaps some of the assumptions will change in time but it feels in line with the current thinking.

I'd be interested to see some devious combos in a 3000 point list if anyone would step up. ;)

Morthak
12-07-2010, 18:35
@ Kerill- Again, thanks for the tactica, too bad you ran out of characters so fast, but we can manage.
Are you sure about the book and power familar on the BSB? Even a 3+ save can easily be dealt with. Why don't you consider Call to Glory? It has become much better since we use more infantry and because you can keep it up while casting. He can still be removed any time you like and might help out your BSB against challenges when the champion has already been pummeled to death. Make Way! also made this spell more worthwile.
A really tough list, it's quite similar to my first setup for 2200pts

@captainAurelius- are you sure about the exalted with a greatweapon? You could get a Halberd and something for 5pts.

Here my first 1500pts for the 8th edition. I'm going to try it tomorrow.

Chaos Lord of Khorne, Talisman of Preservation, Crown of Command, Halberd, Juggernaut, Stream of Corruption

Joins:
14 Warriors of Chaos, Full Command, Halberds and Shields, Banner of Rage

-They used to be Khorne and have Banner of Dicipline, but I found out my Lord wouldn't be able to confer it's leadership. It's not the most maxed out combination, the warriors can do without him. But I couldn't, or wouldn't, fit in a reasonably maxed out lvl2 and BSB. He might do just fine, Ld9 Stubborn is important as they can still run away being frenzied.

Exalted Champion of Tzeentch, Bronze Armour of Zhrakk, Sword of Might, Ironcurse Icon, Luckstone, Shield.

Joins:

30 Marauders of Tzeentch, Full Command, Light Armour and Shields

- A nice, big block of indomitable marauders, with the nice 5+ ward against warmachines. I think I canned the BSB in well enough.

5 Warhounds

4 Chaos Trolls

Hellcannon

I'll be posting my 2200pts list later on.

Morthak

captainAurelius
12-07-2010, 19:04
Thanks for the spot, I'm still in 7.5 mode.
List Amended.

sayles78
12-07-2010, 19:09
My first attempt at 8th WoC list. Not quite 2k points yet, but that is the benchmark points limit.


HERO: Chaos Sorcerer of Tzeentch Points: 206
Mark of Tzeentch, Lvl 2 Wizard, Barded Steed, Charmed Shield, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Spell Familiar, Biting Blade
(Riding alone for freedom of movement)

HERO: Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle Points: 175
Mark of Nurgle, Level 2 Wizard, Infernal Puppet
(In the Warriors of Nurgle block)

CORE: Chaos Warriors Points: 270
15 Warriors, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer

CORE: Chaos Warriors of Tzeentch Points: 278
15 Warriors, Mark of Tzeentch, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer

CORE: Chaos Warriors of Nurgle Points: 300
15 Warriors, Mark of Nurgle, Shields, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer

CORE: Marauder Horsemen Points: 180
10 Marauder Horsemen, Shields, Spears, Musician, Chief, Standard Bearer

SPECIAL: Chaos Knights Points: 285
5 Knights, Musician, Champion, Standard Bearer, Banner of Rage

RARE: Hellcannon of Chaos Points: 205


So, thats 1899 points. Trying to work out where to get points from to run a budget BSB in the Warriors with no mark.

As I said, my first attempt at a list, and I'm pleased with how it feels and how i think it will preform.... but PLEASE give me your comments! You guys are much more experienced than me - I haven't played WFB since 6th. Any suggestion on where to get the few extra points needed for the BSB would be awesome!

Also, looking for somewhere to steel a few more points to put Mark of Nurgle on my Marauder Horsemen...

Thanks,

Sayles

teleologica
13-07-2010, 14:31
Just a thought for those (like me) agonising over the all-important BSB build. Personally I really like the idea of an Exalted with Book and Power Familiar - played it with that in 7th, and will continue in 8th. However, how about dropping the familiar for Enchanted Shield and Necrotic Phylactery. I can see the latter being much more useful in 8th due to the inevitable magic sniping of BSBs we'll all be engaging in. It makes him immune to poison for starters - most useful on a Disc BSB. He's also immune to Lores of Death and Nurgle, so no buboe sniping and none of the death snipe spells worry him. He also auto-passes all stat tests (bar Ld, which he re-rolls :)) so the scary non-death spells which rely on passing Init - or whatever - or die also do nothing. And he's still got points for the enchanted shield, so 2+/5++ in combat (or 1+/6++ on a horse or disc).

Hashulaman
14-07-2010, 04:43
Hi, this is probably my first post here as I'm relativly new here. I am working on a 2250 list, this is what I have so far.

Sorcerer Lord, MoT, level 4, 3rd Eye, Enchanted Shield, Armor of Destiny, Infernal Puppet, Disc

Exhaulted Hero, BSB, EHW, MoT, Talisman of Preservation, Stream of Corruption

Chaos Sorcerer(lore of Shadow), level 2, Spell Familiar, Talisman of Endurance


18 Chaos Warriors, MoT, Shields, Full command

18 Chaos Warriors, MoT, Shields, Full command

18 Chaos Warriors, MoT, Shields, Full command, Blasted Standard
(BSB in this unit)


Hellcannon




I have 182 points to spare, any thoughts on what i should use them? As well as what anyone thinks of what i have so far. As far as The Stream being on the BsB and not the Sorcerer Lord, I'm not keen on getting my sorc lord in Close Combat. I never seen Sorc lords as good fighters, I am willing to try something new if it would be that good.

Zaustus
14-07-2010, 05:35
Here's the 2250 list I used this last weekend. Several of the choices are "sub-optimal" from a pure gaming perspective, but I'm going for a Tzeentch theme:

Sorcerer Lord, Level 4 (Shadows), Crown of Everlasting Conquest, Blood of Tzeentch, Enchanted Shield, Ironcurse Icon, Conjoined Homunculus - 390

Exalted Hero, Tzeentch, BSB, Talisman of Preservation, Warrior Bane, shield, Stream of Corruption - 220

50 Marauders, Tzeentch, great weapons, full command - 290
23 Chaos Warriors, Tzeentch, shields, full command, Standard of Discipline - 433 (I still think the general can provide his leadership to other units)
18 Chaos Warriors, Tzeentch, halberds, shields, musician, standard, Banner of Rage - 379

6 Chaos Knights, Tzeentch, musician, standard, Blasted Standard - 330

Hellcannon - 205


We're talking about going up to 2500 as our standard game size, and I'm still mulling over options for the extra 250 points. I'm leaning toward either a Tzeentch level 2 on a disc, or a Tzeentch Exalted with Book of Secrets, Power Familiar and Third Eye. If I take the latter route, perhaps I should change the Lord to Tzeentch? It'd fit a little better with the theme, although I really liked having a L4 Shadow Lord in the game I played.

Kerill
14-07-2010, 05:59
@Captain Aurelius, I copied and pasted the wrong list bsb will be with the (14) Tzeentch warriors for a 3+ 5+. Not great but I can always move him around a bit. Agonised for a while before I dropped the collar of Khorne for the power familiar, but I really wanted blood of Tzeentch

I'd be worried for your bsb and jugger hero though with no LOS roll. If the bsb is with the knights I'd boost them to 6 at least to take the first cannon ball.

@Sayles, I'd definitely go for a sorceror lord rather than a sorceror, and I'd cut the marauder horsemen down to get some banners for the chaos warriors. Not sure about running your sorceror free on a chaos steed though, even with a 4+ LOS from nearby horsemen (can't get LOS from the knights I think since they have a champion and thus would need to be 6 strong). Disk is hard to resist :)

@Morthak, interesting list, not a fan of magic then?

@ Hashulaman

I've answered your fighty sorceror question in the tactica. At the minute your sorceror lord is illegal since he has 2 magic armours.

Stream of corruption is fine on the bsb and adds to his active defence, I prefer it on the disk rider since it gives more options. I'd give the bsb a halberd rather than an a/hw though, statistically more useful.

You need more deployment drops and harassers- hounds are always good at 30 points a unit. I'd also find it hard to resist the banner of rage on one of those warrior units (and give them halberds).

@Zaustus. Looks good, again I'd want more deployment drops though.

Gambles
14-07-2010, 07:37
Here is an army I am working on, the idea is a balanced list with all 4 Chaos gods represented with a unit "taking orders" from their hero or lord...many of the choices reflect models I own and feel pressed to make use of.

2250 Points

Sorceror Lord of Tzeentch, level 4, disc, Enchanted Shield, Power Familiar, Phylactery. 360

10 Tzeentch Chosen, FC, GW, Favor of the Gods 275

Festus 185
joining:
20 Nurgle Warriors FC, Halberds, Banner of Rage 435

Khorne Hero, GW, BSB, Fury of the Blood God, Blasted Standard. 198
joining:
50 Khorne Marauders, FC, GW, 300

Slannesh Hero, steed, halberd 144 (thinking he might be more useful as a sorc... getting off Ecstatic Seizures vs a horde would be really cool, or more buffage. I do like the idea of such a fast charger picking off loners though)

Slaanesh Chaos Warshrine 140 (thinking of dropping for a chariot, or marauder horsemen)

Hellcannon 205

Total 2242

So many big weapons and no shields... but the Khorne Horde looks like an 8th Ed favorite, I am pretty sure the Nurgle Warriors have enough staying power with the regeneration and that the str of the halberd outweighs the extra poisoned attacks from extra hand weapons, and the Tzeentch chosen are simply modeled that way and I don't want to convert them.

I am not sure about my BSB having a magic standard and Fury of the Blood God. I've read it's technically okay, but I don't feel it's worth arguing.

Please let me know what you think.

Hashulaman
14-07-2010, 08:43
Kerill: Fair enough, I misread the section where it said you can have one armor and one shield, and thought it said I could have one magic shield and one magic armor, my apologies. If that is the case, Im dumping the enchanted shield as I will take a 3++ ward that cannot be modified over a 2+ armor. Its rather annoying as I already have the puppet for an arcane item and cant find where to spend the extra 15 points. Maybe i can give him the homunculus and just stay withing BSB range for the re rolls.

As for the BSB, Im using the old Chaos undevided model. The axe he is holding, I don't know if it could count as a halberd, It is sizeable enough to be a great weapon though.

Wicked_fool
14-07-2010, 12:24
Hey Guys,

With the new 8e i'm starting a new army and guess what, it's WoC. I've created two lists, both quite similar but don't know which one to take.

First List:
LORD
Sorcerer Lord, LVL4, Disk,MoTzeentch, 4+ WS item, Blood of T, charmed shield, biting blade, conjoined Homuncles

HERO
Exalted Champion, BSB, MoTzeentch, Shield, Book of Secrets, Power Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch

Core
30 Marauders, Flail, MoKhorne, FC

20 Warriors, MoTzeentch, Shield, FC, Raptourus Standard

3* 5 Hounds

SPECIAL
12 Chosen, Halberd, Shield, FC, Banner of Rage, Favour of the Gods

RARE
Hellcannon
Warshrine, MoTzeentch

Total: 2250

Second List:
LORD
Sorcerer Lord, LVL4, Disk,MoTzeentch, 4+ WS item, Blood of T, charmed shield, biting blade, conjoined Homuncles

HERO
Exalted Champion, BSB, MoTzeentch, Shield, Book of Secrets, Power Familiar, Third Eye of Tzeentch

Core
30 Marauders, Flail, MoKhorne, FC

15 Warriors, MoTzeentch, Shield, FC, Raptourus Standard

17 Warriors, MoNurgle, Halberd, SHield, FC, Banner of Rage

3* 5 Hounds

SPECIAL

RARE
Hellcannon
Warshrine, MoTzeentch

Total: 2212

So which one will perform better and is funnier to play?

captainAurelius
14-07-2010, 12:47
Kerill: The BSB is in with the marauders and the juggernaut is either hiding behind terrain or possibly even the trolls. I play him fairly quietly in the first few turns as he tends to do better later in the game. I prefer him swinging combats instead of fighting them on his own. I feel the BSB is a little vulnerable. In his 2500point incarnation he is far more secure. Taking some of the points from teleologica he would look like this:

Exalted, BSB, shield, steed, MoT, 5+ Ward save item, helm of luck, necrotic phylactery, - 216
(So 4+ ward, first fail reroll 1+ AS, immune to lore of death, nurgle and poison, passes all characterisitics checks bar ld)

Stream of Corruption looks a good option too with the added emphasis on defending this chap.


The Chaos Dwarfs must have opened an artillery school in the wastes looking at everyones lists!

Morthak
14-07-2010, 18:15
@ Kerill: Well I am, but I couldn't fit in a lvl2, and didn't think of adding a sorcerer lord. While the army did work out quite well, the dark elf player had a lvl4 with lore of metal that just spammed away. My poor lord got turned into gold... A hydra quickly flanked the marauders, and stupid as I was, I moved my BSB to face him. It ended pretty quickly with his horde unit of spearmen charging in. The Hellcannon proved it's worth by almost killing the whole unit on it's own with shooring and combat combined.

@ Gambles: You have a very small army, but don't take another sorcerer, you'll need all the power dice you can spare.

@ Wicked_Fool: the setup is great, but because of the larger numbers, I'd go for option number two. Chosen die just as easily as warriors and every loss for them is a loss in combatpower.

@ captainAurelius: Putting him on a steed is possibly even more dangerous than not. But other than that he probably is the most tough exalted you can make, unless you go for the 3+ ward, but even then, I'm not sure.


My 2500pts list I used today, with good results.

Kologarn, Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch
Disc of Tzeentch, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Blood of Tzeentch, Biting Blade, Third Eye of Tzeentch, Conjoined Homonculus

Throgg

Exalted Champion of Tzeentch, Berzerker Sword (the rulebook one...), Talisman of Endurance, Stream of Corruption, Shield.

18 Warriors of Chaos, Full Command, Halberds and Shields, Banner of Rage

40 Marauders of Khorne, GW, FC

5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh, flails

5 Chaos Trolls

6 Knights of Khorne, Banner, Banner of Eternal Flame

Hellcannon
Hellcannon


Even though the cannons are a liability, they can do great stuff when needed. They are an auto-include for each chaos army.

,Morthak

Roark
15-07-2010, 00:29
@ Kerill: Your disk Lord is going to have to babysit those Trolls, mate. Seems VERY restrictive, when he should be zipping around doing what he likes... And I know it's already been mentioned, but that BSB is quite vulnerable...

Love the trolls. I'm going to do that for sure.

Alexander Keith
15-07-2010, 02:01
2.5k TZC/Undivided

Characters

200 Exalhted, BSB, MoTzc, Collar of Khrone, Iron Curse Icon, Dragon Helm, shield.

210 Chaos Sorcerer, MoTzc, 2nd level, Blood of Tzc, Spell Shield, Stream of Corruption.

190 Chaos Sorcerer of Death, 2nd level, Dispel Scroll, Conjoined Homunculus, Enchanted Shield, and Necrotic Phlactery

600= 24%

Core

(388) 19- Warriors of Chaos, MoTzc, Shields, Standard, Musician, Blasted Standard

(208) 28- Marauders of Chaos, MoTzc, Shields, Light Armour, Full Command

(80) 5- Marauder Horsemen, Light Armour, Spears, Throwing Spears

(80) 5- Marauder Horsemen, Light Armour, Spears, Throwing Spears

(30) 5- Chaos Hounds

(30) 5- Chaos Hounds

816= 33%

Special

(270) 6- Chaos Trolls

(200) 5- Chaos Knights

(200) 5- Chaos Knights

670= 27%

Rare

(205) Hellcannon

(205) Hellcannon

410= 16%

My three large units all have good protection in combat, vs shooting, and vs magic.

The Trolls have +4 regen of course...

The Marauders are joined by the BSB and Death Sorcerer...they have a 5+ armour save and 5+ ward save in combat against most attacks. They have a 4+ ward vs magic, and 5+ ward vs warmachines...and of course the 5+ armour save vs other shooting.

The Warriors have a 3+ armour save, and 5+ ward save in combat. A 3+ armour save and 4+ ward save vs shooting. And they also have a 5+ ward vs magic when joined by the Tzc Sorcerer.

My characters all have good saves as well...

The BSB has a 2+ Armour save and a 5+ ward in combat...and a 3+ ward vs sniping magic

The Death Sorcerer and general has a +2 Armour save and is immune to death and Nurgle sniping spells thanks to Necrotic Phylactery.

Lastly the Sorcerer of Tzc has a 3+ armour save, 5+ ward save in combat and a 5+ ward versus sniping spells.

My hope is while I advance on the opponent he should be weakened by the cannons and magic while I hopefully reach combat mostly intact.

Please Comment: I need all the help I can get!
1) Do you think the list can work without the Sorcerer Lord on Disk?

2) Do you think I've invested to much in shooting/magic protection for my troops? 125pts including the marks?

Kerill
15-07-2010, 05:46
@ Kerill: Your disk Lord is going to have to babysit those Trolls, mate. Seems VERY restrictive, when he should be zipping around doing what he likes... And I know it's already been mentioned, but that BSB is quite vulnerable...

Love the trolls. I'm going to do that for sure.

He is indeed at the minute, but I'd be using the troll shield for the first turn or two anway- even with the 3+ ward I'd like the extra protection. Throgg will be leading the trolls after a few games (I added him to the army fluff a while back but need to build it up a bit before I use him).

Hopefully I'll get a game or two next weekend and I'll resurrect my battle report thread.

sayles78
15-07-2010, 08:13
@Sayles, I'd definitely go for a sorceror lord rather than a sorceror, and I'd cut the marauder horsemen down to get some banners for the chaos warriors. Not sure about running your sorceror free on a chaos steed though, even with a 4+ LOS from nearby horsemen (can't get LOS from the knights I think since they have a champion and thus would need to be 6 strong). Disk is hard to resist :)


Done. My Sorc is now level 4.

Is a Disc that much better than a steed? The steed is barded, and thus improves my saving throw by 1. The disc allows slightly faster movement (3" or 6" march), but other than that, there is no real difference except terrain issues (which we dont have a lot of). Plus, there are spells in the game that affect flyers only, or do not allow flying, and the disc only has a move of 1. Also, like you said, I can get LOS from my marauder horsemen. There seems to be more positives than negatives to having him on a steed than on a disc to me.

I see a lot of people with these dudes on a disc, and I did at first too, but I quickly changed my mind when I saw the sorcerer on Chaos Steed model in the COLLECTORS section of the GW website. I love that model!!!

The model in question: http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1380006&prodId=prod1130362

I'm struggling to find spare points for any banners for warriors, but have put banner of rage on my Knights for some extra punch. I am playing against VC's, so I dont even see any Banners that are essential anyway. Have I overlooked some?

Sayles

captainAurelius
15-07-2010, 10:36
Being mounted improves your AS by 1. Being mounted on a barded steed improves it by 2.

Flyers can move 10 now if they don't make a fly move.

I have that model too. I fell out of love with it after a few games because I didn't like the fact he is side on. Looks silly when he's in a unit or always facing the wrong way.

Sayles can we have a revised list so we can help you with getting some banners? Your champions in the cavalry units seem the most obvious choice to drop, especially in the knights.

Alexander Keith
15-07-2010, 15:01
@ sayles78 and captainAurelius... I'd go with the horse, if that's what you really want...six inches of speed is a lot though...but I suppose you could be hiding the character behind the trolls, and beside the horsemen...meaning you get protection from the trolls, and a +4 LOS roll from the horsemen...or +2 if your in the unit...sounds like a pretty good idea really...but you can get the LOS roll with a disk too?

Kerill
15-07-2010, 15:09
but you can get the LOS roll with a disk too?

You can indeed.

Solid looking list btw. Remember the hellcannon doesn't have to be used for shooting- its utility is that its also an awesome combat monster. Against some lists (gunlines) I'd probably run it up the field from the get go to support the army and for target saturation. You can go without the sorceror lord- you are losing +4 to cast and dispel though and not saving that many points. On the other hand it isn't such a loss if you lose 1 sorceror whilst keeping the points spent on characters down.

theSkullduggery1
15-07-2010, 20:45
@Gambles...I love your theme, it is really cool. However, I don't think you should give your BSB a great weapon, in close combat he strikes last with just a 4+ AS. A character hunter or lord built just to fight will easily take him out and BSBs are very useful.

However the build you have is completely legal, you are allowed to take a magic banner + a gift, since gifts are not magic items (says specifically on page 110 of the army book). You should not have any trouble with that in games.

Edit: I just read what Eta wrote on this last topic, I had forgotten that the gift you were taking is the one that says no magic items...I'm not certain if a magic standard is a magic item, but I'm leaning towards you not being able to have both.

captainAurelius
16-07-2010, 14:32
@ Keith Alexander, I'm a Disc man, I was just saying I have the collector's model and don't really like it.


Here's a question for you guys:

There are a lot of level 4 Sorcerer Lords with the 4+ ward save item on here (tailsman of endurance or preservation?) for 9 great weapon marauders. Why would you do this when the good old Golden Eye for 5 great weapon marauders gives the same ward save albeit against shooting attacks. The guy is on a disc so he shouldn't ever be in a situation where he needs his ward in combat as he'll only be in contact with the odd warmachine crew. Wouldn't the same points be useful for various gifts like the stream of corruption or conjoined humonculus? I would have thought the 4+ ward item is asking to be combined with the one time armour reroll on the BSB. Would appreciate someone spelling this out for me. Thanks

Cartoon
16-07-2010, 16:53
I think people want the non-conditional save because the model is so expensive. The eye only protects against shooting and magic missiles, but there is a lot of other magic that could bring a lot of pain if it hits him. Also, the sorc lord will probably be a priority target so any fliers and fast cavalry will be coming straight for him. While it's certainly a great idea to keep him out of cc, it's very possible that the situation might be unavoidable at times so it is nice to have the true ward save to protect him.

That's my take on it anyway, others might feel differently.

Eta
16-07-2010, 17:00
I am not sure about my BSB having a magic standard and Fury of the Blood God. I've read it's technically okay, but I don't feel it's worth arguing.



A magic standard is still a magic item, isn't it? That means this build would be illegal as the gift prohibits the use of any magic items.

Greetings
Eta

NixonAsADaemonPrince
16-07-2010, 18:24
I think people want the non-conditional save because the model is so expensive. The eye only protects against shooting and magic missiles, but there is a lot of other magic that could bring a lot of pain if it hits him. Also, the sorc lord will probably be a priority target so any fliers and fast cavalry will be coming straight for him. While it's certainly a great idea to keep him out of cc, it's very possible that the situation might be unavoidable at times so it is nice to have the true ward save to protect him.

That's my take on it anyway, others might feel differently.

Yes, that's my reasoning behind the permanent 4++. It also protects him from his own miscasts.

Nixon

Jericho
17-07-2010, 18:59
Yes, that's my reasoning behind the permanent 4++. It also protects him from his own miscasts.

Nixon
Emphasis added by yours truly :D

Enemy magic and your own miscasts are two huge threats to spellcasters in 8th, and the Golden Eye protects against neither. Also remember that flyers can be march blocked and enemy infantry can charge from much farther away.

captainAurelius
17-07-2010, 22:39
Thanks guys, this is what I thought. Appreciate the input.

Speaking from experience here most of the magic that has ever come his way is in the form of magic missiles and therefore the Eye has been relevant. This is only speaking from 7th edition though, I'm going to have another read of the magic lores. If the threat from magic increases, which I think it will with the prevalence of characteristic tests now in the common lores I will have to see if this is a vulnerable area and as such a valid reason for upgrading the utility of his ward save. However his high casting level (therefore less casting dice) and the mandatory selection of Blood of Tzeentch means I am not unduly worried about the likelihood of a miscast. At least not measured against the alternative equipment I can buy in lieu of an upgrade.

At the moment I feel he is well enough protected to spend the points elsewhere. I found it puzzling that it seemed an almost automatic choice in the above selection however. I'm glad I asked though as the debate can not only inform the casual reader but also gives an insight into my fellow chaos players criteria for list construction and wargear selection. I'm actually finding this thread more useful than the 8th tactica as it gives a fairly concise guide to the trends you might struggle to pick up in what will inevitably be a gargantuan and perhaps convoluted tactica thread.


Can anyone with an appetite for mathhammer greater than mine work out whether an Exalted on Juggernaut with halberd and stream of corruption will generate enough of an overkill bonus against a standard unit champion in say an average 20 man block of str3 5+6++ to win combat? Was just wondering if it would be an excepted risk to have him attempt to solo a unit for a turn and so guarantee a successful flank charge with Khorne knights the next turn and hopefully collapse a whole section of the opponents line.
This is fairly speculative conjecture so would appreciate some solid evidence for a yes or no answer.

Thanks.

teleologica
18-07-2010, 00:05
The exalted will be in trouble without stream of corruption, but ought to win reliably with it.

He kills around 2-3, no attacks from the Jugger (lower Initiative), +1 for charge = 3-4.
Versus 2 remaining ranks, standard bearer = 3.

So even assuming he charges, he wins by 1 but they're steadfast, or draws and loses by musician (and also loses Frenzy). Not a great risk.

With Stream he kills maybe another 2-4, enough to win safely by between 2 and 5 depending on kills and the number of ranks left.

Assuming your opponent has no countercharges against the Jugger, or to block/redirect the Knights, they go in the side next turn. At that point they should do a lot of damage, and hopefully break the little guys. However, those are some big ifs. I'd say it could work but wouldn't rely on it personally. Remember that if the infantry are on 20mm bases you may only get 3 knights in. If they fluff, the infantry could still have two ranks and be steadfast. It's rather less risky just charging in the knights at the same time, even if it's in the front (as you won't be breaking ranks in the flank unless you have at least 8 plus jugger and none die). Challenge with the unit champ and then use Hero plus unit to decimate the rank and file. Average kills in the region of 4-7 for hero (including stream), 6-10 for unit, 1 for champ. Even on low end rolls the 20 plebs are now below 10 (ie two ranks), no longer steadfast and run.

Also remember, I wouldn't depend on people putting out 20 basic dudes without support so you can start rolling up the line - they'll be in bigger units to take wounds; or have mutually supporting units which will counter charge a solo hero; or worst of all, they will be 20 dudes costing 100 points stuck out on a flank to distract your 400-500 point unit for a couple of turns.

I see what you're trying to do, but think that in practice it will be hard to make work.

Gambles
18-07-2010, 03:37
@Gambles...I love your theme, it is really cool. However, I don't think you should give your BSB a great weapon, in close combat he strikes last with just a 4+ AS. A character hunter or lord built just to fight will easily take him out and BSBs are very useful.

However the build you have is completely legal, you are allowed to take a magic banner + a gift, since gifts are not magic items (says specifically on page 110 of the army book). You should not have any trouble with that in games.

Edit: I just read what Eta wrote on this last topic, I had forgotten that the gift you were taking is the one that says no magic items...I'm not certain if a magic standard is a magic item, but I'm leaning towards you not being able to have both.

Yeah it's pretty cheese in any case, and expensive. I think the standard is going to be the more useful of the two... try to be as smart as I can with dispels.

Zaustus
18-07-2010, 15:03
Magic banners are definitely magic items. You can't take a magic banner + fury of the blood god.

I'm off to the club in a couple hours; if I get a game I'll put up a battle report.

Leth Shyish'phak
18-07-2010, 15:45
Ok, here is my current 3k list, after some revisions coming from playing games.

Lords:

Chaos Lord - MoT, halberd, armour of damnation, talisman of endurance, helm of many eyes - 328

Exalted Sorcerer - MoT, level 4, third eye of tzeentch, conjoined homonculus, enchanted shield, book of ashur - 420

Heroes:

Exalted Champion - MoT, BSB, halberd, talisman of preservation - 194

Sorcerer - level 2, lore of death, bloodcurdling roar, infernal puppet - 175

Core:

18 Chaos Warriors - MoK, halberds, full command, razor standard - 393

18 Chaos Warriors - MoK, halberds, full command, war banner - 373

50 marauders - MoK, great weapons, full command - 300

Special:

16 Chosen - halberds, full command, banner of rage, favour of the gods - 394

6 Chaos Knights - MoK, banner - 290

Rare:

Warshrine - 130

The Chaos Lord and Exalted Champion both join the Chosen to create a fairly solid centre for the battle line, generally the infantry units stomp up the middle of the field with the Warshrine protecting one flank and the Knights on the other.

I had two units of Knights at one point, but decided to make them into one unit to make room for the Marauders who I think will be more useful (haven't tried them yet).

The Warriors and Chosen are definitely very good this edition, in the three games I've played I've only lost three Warriors units, once to massed shooting from Tomb Kings (until the Chosen and Knights arrived and rolled up the entire army. :evilgrin: ) the other two were in a game against High Elves.

Horde units of Sea Guard and massive units of Dragon Princes (15 and a Noble in two ranks :wtf: ) are not good for the health of normal Warriors, although the Chosen took care of both. I like that unit :D (although for just over 900 points, it had better be good).

For the wizards, I haven't tried the lore of Tzeentch yet, been using the rule book lores and found them fairly disappointing. My Exalted Sorcerer has tried death and shadow, only the hexes seemed really useful so I want to try Tzeentch magic with the Third Eye as well.

cabowers
18-07-2010, 16:42
Ok here is my list for 3000 points mono khorne. It is obviously going to suffer from anti-magic but is quick to close the table and hopefully will only take 2 turns tops to be on top of the enemy and making it difficult to pull of the big spells.

Lords

Valkia the Bloody - 410

Heroes

Exalted Hero - MoK, Juggernaut, BSB, Shield, Armour of Destiny - 255

Exalted Hero - MoK, Juggernaut, Bloodcurdling Roar, Obsidian Amulet - 230

Core

10 Marauder Horsemen - MoK, Flails, Musician - 186

10 Marauder Horsemen - MoK, Flails, Musician - 186

15 Marauder Horsemen - MoK, Spears, Shields, Light Armour Full Command - 300

15 Marauder Horsemen - MoK, Spears, Shields, Light Armour Full Command - 300

Special

8 Chaos Knights - MoK, Full Command, Rangers Standard - 450

8 Chaos Knights - MoK, Full Command, Lichebone Standard - 415

Rare

Chaos Warshrine - 130

Chaos Warshrine - 130

C&C welcome but please before you say it let me save you the trouble, I do not like the hound models and therefore will not be using them at all (well unless this army is getting shot to pieces by war machines)

Cartoon
18-07-2010, 17:17
You might have some trouble with horde units, or units that are 5-6 ranks deep. The knights will be able to kill a lot, but with the step up rule marauder horsemen are really squishy this edition. I'd love to hear how the units of 15 fare though. I've always been curios about how well they would perform as medium cavalry without the fast cav rule. Still, a 4+ save might not be enough to keep them alive very long with all the attacks that will be coming back at them.

I really want to know how well an all cavalry list will do this edition. If you don't mind would you please post the results of your next game? I hope it's not rude of me to ask, and I certainly don't mean to impose it's just that the general consensus is that cavalry has been relegated to a support role. I'd love to see if they can carry the army alone.

cabowers
18-07-2010, 17:20
I will do but it will be a while before this army is up and running as currently I only have 10 Horsemen, 8 knights and Valkia done.

Cartoon
18-07-2010, 18:00
Awesome, thank you very much. I should give it a try as well, I think I have the models to pull it off. What unit size do you need to negate ranks? I though it was 10, or am I completely mistaken and it's no longer even possible now?

cabowers
18-07-2010, 18:02
you need a minimum of one additional rank after the first but because ranks are counted at the end of combat it is a little bit more difficult to pull off.

Alexander Keith
18-07-2010, 18:27
Warriors of Chaos 2500pts

I’ve decided that I'd like to have my WOC painted before the end of the summer, and so will be just adding a bit to my 7th ed list to limit my painting time…it’s not going to be optimal, but please tell me what you think it’s weaknesses are?

(208) - 28 Marauders of Tzc, shields, light armour, full command

(200) - 30 Marauders of Khrone, GW, full command

(80) - 5 Marauder Horsemen, Flails, light armour

(80) - 5 Marauder Horsemen, Throwing axes, light armour

(30) - 5 Warhounds of Chaos

(30) - 5 Warhounds of Chaos

Core 628

(120) - Chaos Chariot

(380) - 7 Chaos Ogres, Standard and Musician

(305) - 6 Chaos Knights, musician, banner, Banner of Rage

Special 785

(205) – Hellcannon

(225) - Chaos Giant

Rare 425

(435) - Sorceror Lord Extra Level, MoTz, Amulet of Preservation, Blood of Tzeentch, Charmed shield, Biting blade, Conjoined homunculus, Stream of Corruption

(225) – Exalted Champion, BSB, MoTzc, Book of Secrets, Power Familiar, Third eye of Tzc, shield.

The Plan

1 )The Knights and Disk Rider Deploy to the Extreme Right of the Deployment zone with the Ogres and Giant just inside them…this is my flanking force. 2) The unit of Khrone Marauders push up the middle supported by the chariot…and the Hellcannon and Tzc Marauders with BSB anchor my flank. What do you think?

captainAurelius
18-07-2010, 22:01
Teleologica:


The exalted will be in trouble without stream of corruption, but ought to win reliably with it.

I thought this was the case I just wanted to hear it from someone else. My 2000pt list (see second post in thread) has four combat units, namely: knights, warriors, trolls and marauders; I also have a disc lord, hellcannon and Juggernaut. Its not a huge battle line. Working with the assumption that I'll be outnumbered in unit to unit match ups, which is regularly the case against my standard skaven and brettonian opponents I was looking to create some more lethality in the support platforms. The Juggernaut is a no brainer as a force multiplier in the knights but when push comes to shove and something has to step up to hold an overlap on the line its going to be him. The hellcannon can fight but I am treating this as a bonus as it is far more effective in its primary role. Likewise the Disc Lord has total freedom for exploitation and targets of opportunity so I wanted to cast the Juggernaut in the role of troubleshooter. The knights in the flank scenario was born from optimism when evaluating his place and as some added context for the example. Furthermore the 20 man str3 boys were just a benchmark for a capability assessment.

It's an exercise in getting as much from every unit as possible. What was before seen as a standard character, now with role specific wargear becomes an asset with a clear capability and function.

Thank you for facilitating my point.

Doommasters
19-07-2010, 00:49
Would just like to say 2 Hellcannons is fun!

Running two Hellcannons now means i have a chance of beating the Lizardmen super Slann. Have played 6 games vs Lizardmen over the weekend, lost first 3 then added the above and 2 wins and a draw!

Charge you marauder warriors at his TG unit while concentraiting the Hellcannons on the same unit. This forces the Slann to play defensive while you line up your MoK warriors for the kill.

MoK warriors eat Saurus for breakfast when they don't have the spell with makes them T8! Salamanders are still an issue i need to figure out.

Listi like:

Sorcerer lvl 4 Disk MoT

Throgg
Exalted

2x 18 MoK H warriors
2x 34 MoK GW Marauders

6 trolls

2x Hellcannon

Tactics:

Use Cannons and Sorcerer to put early pressure on important units (best to focus fire Hellcannons to bring the pain, rather than spread the love). Get the marauders in a position to casue the most threat so that the enemy has to use range attacks on them first or suffer the pain. Line up the MoK warriors to either flank units in combat or line up combats that will yeild the most VP. Trolls do well against anything without fire and even then are still ok.

The best thing about this list is you can surge ahead and leave the cannons behind as they can defend themselves.

I prefer MoK over MoT warriors as i find that i just can't handle being in combat forever, with the few units we have i find that we can't reliably hold waiting for another unit to support and break the enemy. Yes MoT warriors last for ages but i prefer to butcher through units at the fastest rate possible and MoK does this.

1) Hellcannons and magic place early pressure on important targets (focus fire)
2) Marauders threaten early and thus take the range assault.
3) MoK warriors and Trolls clean up.
4) Hellcannons sit in the rare with the gear or protect the flanks.

Alexander Keith
19-07-2010, 15:21
@ Doommasters...thanks for the quick points!

theSkullduggery1
19-07-2010, 17:59
@Alexander Keith, I believe that hounds do not count towards the 25% core that you are required to field, therefore you still need 57 points made up of Marauders, Warriors, or Horsemen for the list to be a legal build.

RonCrazy
19-07-2010, 18:37
The Faq saids nothing about hounds not counting towards core, so im asuming that they do.

Alexander Keith
19-07-2010, 21:24
@ theSkullduggery1...thanks, I'd thought they were part of the core :(

@RonCrazy...this is very clearly spelled out of page 134 of the rulebook...back to the drawing board!

der dexter
19-07-2010, 22:09
A new army for the 8th, so 'ere we go:

@2400 pts, first draft

Chaos sorcerer
MoTz 20
conjoined homonculi 20
spell familiar 15
armour of dorgan 40
talisman of preservation 45
disc 20
=> 430 pts

3+/3++ saves, with a good lore to use, highly durable.

BSB
MoTz 10
talisman of endurance 30
dragon helm 10
warrior bane 5
shield 5
stream of corruption 20
=> 215 pts

2+/4++ saves, can even go offensive if need be.
Sorcerer
MoNu 20
level 2 35
power familiar 25
collar of Khorne 25
=> 190 pts

mainly for the 1st spell, just to snipe their countermagic/targets of opportunity.


Sorcerer
MoNu 20
level 2 35
dispel scroll 25
ironcurse totem 5
=> 170 pts

more to the same.

60 marauders
-MoKh 30
-great weapons @1
-full command 20
=> 350 pts

a solid core

40 Marauders
-MoTz 20
-light armour&shield@2
-full command 20
=>280 pts

more solid core.

3x 6 Hounds@ 36pts => 108 pts

Chaos chariot
-MoKh 30
=> 150 pts

something useful, good for swiftrider.
4 Dragon Ogres
-additional hand weapon@8
=> 292 pts

a flanking force

Hellcannon => 205

sayles78
20-07-2010, 15:42
Being mounted improves your AS by 1. Being mounted on a barded steed improves it by 2.

Flyers can move 10 now if they don't make a fly move.

I have that model too. I fell out of love with it after a few games because I didn't like the fact he is side on. Looks silly when he's in a unit or always facing the wrong way.

Sayles can we have a revised list so we can help you with getting some banners? Your champions in the cavalry units seem the most obvious choice to drop, especially in the knights.

Well, thanks for all the pointers so far guys. Below is my revised list:


LORD: Chaos Sorcerer Lord of Tzeentch Points: 386
Sorcerer Lord, Mark of Tzeentch, Level 4 Wizard, Barded Chaos Steed, Warrior Bane, Talisman of Preservation, Blood of Tzeentch

HERO: Exalted Champion of Chaos Points: 176
Exalted Champ, Battle Standard, Fury of the Blood God, Shield, Barbed Chaos Steed

HERO: Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle Points: 185
Chaos Sorcerer, Mark of Nurgle, Level 2 Wizard, Necrotic Phylactery, Infernal Puppet

CORE: Chaos Warriors Points: 306
18 Chaos Warriors, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer

CORE: Chaos Warriors of Nurgle Points: 351
18 Chaos Warriors, Mark of Nurgle, Shields, Musician, Standard Bearer, Lichebone Pennant Standard

CORE: Chaos Marauders Points: 170
30 Chaos Marauders, Flails, Musician, Standard Bearer, Chieftain

CORE: Chaos Warhounds Points: 60
10 Chaos Warhounds

CORE: Chaos Warhounds Points: 60
10 Chaos Warhounds

SPECIAL: Chaos Knights Points: 305
6 Chaos Knights, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Rage


My LVL 4 has a 2+ / 3++ save, so is very resilient against everything. Still planning on him running by himself, but staying close to the knights, and maybe occasionally joining them.

Nurglr Sorc is to join the unit of Nurgle warriors. He has Nec Phyl and so is immune to that sniping spell from death (which mannfred WILL be trying to do to us!), and the unit have a MR of 6 due to the banner.

Exalted BSB to go with the knights OR the unmarked warriors. Strange I know, but it depends what I will use the knights for on the field. I am planning on using them in some games as a distraction rushing down 1 flank along with the hounds.

Everything else simple enough. Ditched the Hellcannon from previous list, because as I said, my first few games will be against VC's - and I dont think it will be as awesome against these boys as it is against other armies. HOWEVER, as soon as we raise the points above 2k, it will be the 1st thing added to my list.

My only worry is, the BSB Exalted with fury of the blood god can only be with the knights OR the unmarked warriors, which will leave 1 of these without any MR.

Sorry for the text wall! Your comments much appreciated guys.

Cartoon
20-07-2010, 20:56
I think marauders are most effective in units of 40+, since that gives you a little leeway to take some losses from shooting and still get a decent number of attacks back after your opponent gets to strike first. Maybe drop a unit of hounds to bulk the unit up a bit more? Although once you raise the point limit you could probably add them in along with the hellcannon.

Other than that I like it, it's pretty close to what I had in mind as well.

2500 WoC list

Lvl 4 Sorc lord of Tzeentch, third eye o' tzeentch, blood o' tzeentch, dispel scroll

Exalted, MoT, Talisman of Preservation, Shield, AHW (or maybe a halberd, not sure which) BSB

Core,
42 marauders of Khorne, GWs, Full command

18 Warriors of Khorne, Halberds, Shields, Full command

2 * 6 warhounds

Special

15 chosen of Tzeentch, Shields, FotG, Raptorous standard, Exalted champ goes here

6 knights of Khorne, Standard, Musician

Rare
Hellcannon

That leaves me with 328 points to play around with. If I add another exalted of khorne on a jugger with helm of many eyes and the sword of battle that's another 230 pts. I could then stick him with the knights and delete a unit of hounds and add in a chariot.

I could also add either another unit of marauders, some marauder horsemen, or another hellcannon. I could even add in another lvl 2 sorcerer. At this point I really have no idea. I'm thinking the hellcannon would be more effective if there are 2 of them but that leaves me pretty thin on troop levels and only 2 characters. Another full unit of marauders or warriors could flesh out the army pretty nicely and give me some slack when it comes from taking casualties from shooting.

Gah, I have no idea what to do. Any advice would be very much appreciated.

Doommasters
20-07-2010, 22:57
If in doubt take a second Hellcannon.

Cartoon
20-07-2010, 23:11
Seems like solid advice. I suppose the hellcannon has the potential to wipe out more troops than an exalted and will be cheaper to buy than another 40 marauders. Win win. That leaves me enough points to either add a chariot, a unit of marauder horsemen with throwing spears, or to bulk out my chosen and marauder units.

The chariot would certainly be useful in supporting my infantry blocks, but the horsemen might find some use as warmachine hunters. Then again it would only be 5 or 6 of them so I'm not sure they would live long enough to have an impact. Why do chosen have to be so bloody expensive? It's a shame, but I love the little guys too much not to use them.

Also, I'm thinking about give the exalted stream of corruption or blood curdling roar. I would think stream would be a little more useful on a mounted character as it would allow you to position yourself to maximize hits but it's damage potential is probably greater than roar's. Any thoughts on the matter?

Jericho
21-07-2010, 00:01
If the character is going to avoid combat, Roar. If he's going to seek out combat, Stream of Corruption. You can use it at range or in the combat itself, which can be very effective when used at the right time.

Psybilliah
21-07-2010, 00:46
@cartoon

I dont think the Sorc lord has the option to take a shield or halberd, which has been a major frustration for me as of late.

Can anyone confirm this is not the case?.

Also, I have seen a fair number of posts showing heros/lords with a magic shield or weapon and mark of Tzeen, claiming a 5+parry save. The rule book says that you cannot claim the parry bonus if either the weapon or shield are magical. It is stated under both magic weapons and magic armor. Another major bummer.

I am curious of ppl's opinions of whether to take Throgg in my unit of Trolls or a Killy Exhalted BSB w/ Juggernaught for the Magic resist and fear? Thoughts

Also, can I march the 20" on my disc and still shoot the stream of corruption? I dont think so but I would love to be wrong.

Cartoon
21-07-2010, 01:04
Oops, I forgot to list the equipment for my Sorc Lord. That's actually the equipment for my exalted champion. The sorc is packing the third eye, the blood of tzeentch and probably a dispel scroll. Sorry bout the confusion.

The sorcerer lord is allowed to take the enchanted shield. I believe it was covered in a FAQ somewhere along the line, but I'm positive that GW gave an affirmative answer on the issue. I don't think they can take a regular shield though, and they also can't take halberds. As for Throgg, he is definitely a great value this edition. His vomit attack is the bees knees I believe. I haven't tried him yet, but from what everyone is saying he's pretty decent, especially in a unit of 5 or 6 trolls. Trolls already cause fear so you don't need the exalted for that, but the magic resistance is nice. I would probably stick with Throgg though. As for the breathe weapon, I'm not sure about that. I thought you could move and shoot with it, but like I said I really have no idea.


Sounds good, thank you very much for the advice. Has anyone tried a shaggoth yet? I'm tempted to run one since the HE player I usually play against has dropped almost all the bolt throwers from his list, but I'm still worried that all the hordes will be enough to drag him down pretty quickly. I know he gets the thunder stomp attacks, but if he charges does he get impact hits? Might make it worth giving him a try at larger point games.

Alexander Keith
21-07-2010, 11:26
@ Cartoon...I'd really like to see you add two warshrines to the list...you should have the +4 ward save by turn two or three on your chosen...I think it's the only way to run chosen 3+ and 3++ with the mark of Tzc...I've been hearing from the guys on the bad dice podcast that it's pretty nasty! Add in the banner of rage and halberds, and that unit is destroying things! :D

Vaktathi
21-07-2010, 12:12
been going through and theory crafting again, what do people think of something like this?


Lord, MoK, Juggernaught, Chaos Runesword, Talisman of Preservation, Favor of the Gods.

Exalted Hero, BSB, Doom Totem, MoT, Fury of the Blood God, Shield.

Sorceror, Level 2, MoT, Dispell Scroll, Disc of Tzeentch. Golden Eye of Tzeentch


18 Warriors (3 ranks of 6), Shields, MoT, Full Command.

24 Warriors (4 ranks of 6), Shields, MoT, Full Command.

18 Warriors (3 ranks of 6), Shields, MoT, Full Command.

6 Knights, Mark of Nurgle, Banner of Rage

Hellcannon.

theSkullduggery1
21-07-2010, 15:32
What I think is that your BSB build is illegal. Fury of the Blood God says you can't take magical items and Doom Totem is a magical banner (which someone previously in this thread said counts as a magic item).


Magic banners are definitely magic items. You can't take a magic banner + fury of the blood god.

Otherwise, that is a lot of scary stuff and it is so difficult to hurt those Warriors...I'd hate to play against it.

Vaktathi
21-07-2010, 18:30
Ah ok, didn't realize that, good to know, I thought banners were different due to the description of what the BSB could take, but reading it again it appears I misinterpreted it.

Well, oh well, guess I need to remove that Gift, any suggestions on what to spend 30pts on?

Mindshred
21-07-2010, 19:33
I've just started to wade into 8th edition, and was thinking of running this list at 'ard boys next month. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, as I'm still sort of getting used to the new ruleset. Thanks in advance!


Warriors of Chaos, 3000 points

LORD: Chaos Sorcerer Lord Points: 440
Sorcerer Lord, Level 4 Wizard, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc of Tzeentch
Blood of Tzeentch, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted Shield, Conjoined Homunculus, Bloodcurdling Roar

HERO: Chaos Sorcerer Points: 170
Lore of Death, Level 2
Infernal Puppet, Opal Amulet

HERO: Exalted Champion Points: 210
Exalted Champ, Battle Standard, Shield
Helm of Many Eyes, Whip of Subversion, Stream of Corruption

HERO: Troll King Points: 175


CORE: Chaos Warriors x17 Points: 359
Shields, Halberds, Full Command, Mark of Khorne, Banner of Eternal Flame

CORE: Chaos Marauders x50 Points: 300
Great Weapons, Full Command, Mark of Khorne

CORE: Chaos Trolls x5 Points: 225[/I}

CORE: Chaos Warhounds x5 [I]Points: 30

CORE: Chaos Warhounds x5 Points: 30

SPECIAL: Chaos Knights x5 Points: 265
Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of Rage

SPECIAL: Chosen x17 Points: 438
Shields, Mark of Tzeentch, Full Command, Favored of the Gods, Blasted Standard

RARE: Hellcannon Points: 205

RARE: Warshrine Points: 150

The sorcerer lord flies around doing what tzeentch sorcerers do, while the BSB goes in the unit of Khorne chosen and the Sorcerer in the block of chosen. The Troll King joins the chaos trolls, and the warhounds just sort of run around in front of them being annoying and trying to get in the way archers on the march up, with the (very) tenative plan of hitting warmachines when they can.

The Knights are intended to just run about and slam into flanks when possible; they aren't going to negate ranks, but that should be a healthy amount of killing they're bringing to the party. Alternatively, I could drop them for a second Hellcannon, but that leaves sixty-some points floating around that I'm not really sure what to do with.

The BSB is kitted out to challenge and neutralize and characters that come his way, and the shadow sorcerer can swap positions with him in case I need to evac one or the other from combat.



So, any thoughts?

(and thanks in advance!)

chinnfrequent
21-07-2010, 23:17
Sorcerer heroes can't take the lore of shadows.

Mindshred
22-07-2010, 00:26
Sorcerer heroes can't take the lore of shadows.

Gooood point. Welp, probably just Death for him, then.

Cartoon
22-07-2010, 05:04
@ Cartoon...I'd really like to see you add two warshrines to the list...you should have the +4 ward save by turn two or three on your chosen...I think it's the only way to run chosen 3+ and 3++ with the mark of Tzc...I've been hearing from the guys on the bad dice podcast that it's pretty nasty! Add in the banner of rage and halberds, and that unit is destroying things! :D

Hmm, it's probably not a bad idea to add one or two in, but I have no idea what to trim out to do so. Also, I have no idea what to do with a warshrine anyways. They don't seem all that fantastic in combat, but I guess with a 3++ it might be enough to hold down a flank for a turn. I'll have to take a look over things and see what I should drop out.

Alright I think I've got it together. Just had to drop a unit of hounds and I can run 2 hellcannons and a warshrine of Tzeentch. I suppose I could drop the second hellcannon for a warshrine and a unit of doggies if need be as well. That brings me to another conundrum. A second hellcannon, or a second exalted champ? It might be nice to add one to either the marauders or knights. Geez, I'm bad at this whole army list creation thing. I can never decide what to leave out and what to bring.

Psybilliah
22-07-2010, 13:30
Curious about your thoughts on Juggernaut mounts. In the new rule book the are classified as Monsterous Beasts which I feel makes them much more likely to be killed. They lack the good look out sir's and also have a random chance to take a shot from ranged. They are only T4 and W1 and from what I gather it has no save other than its 6+ magic ward save. Just seems really vulnerable and squishy for the points.

Thoughts?

Chaos Puppy
22-07-2010, 14:19
I suppose people think that with brass behemoth the armor save will well make up for the points. but Iam not quite sure..

Azmodian
22-07-2010, 18:20
Kerill, Thank you for all your hard work ^_^

Now to business. MON Army!
3000Points, for a Tournament coming up in august.

Lords
Chaos Lord 210
MoN +20
Great Weapon +12
Chaos Steed +24
Soporific Musk +20
Skinhidden Plate +60
Talisman of Endurance +30
376

Heroes
Exalted Hero 110
BSB +25
Halberd +4
Shield +5
MoN +20
Necrotic Phylactery +10
The Bronze Armor of Zhrakk +15
The Terrifying Mask of EEE! +25
Palanquin of Nurgle +50
264

Chaos Sorcerer 85
L2 +35
MoN +20
Stream of Corruption +20
Arabian Carpet +20
180

Chaos Sorcerer 85
L2 +35
MoT +20
Dispel Scroll +25
Spell Familiar +15
180

Core
Chaos Warriors 15*18
MoN +30
Shields +18
Full command +30
Lichebone Pennant +15 (Banner: Magic res (1))
363

Chaos Warriors 15*18
MoN +30
Shields +18
Full command +30
348

Chaos Marauders 4*30
MoK +30
GW +30
Full command +20
200

Chaos Warhounds 6*5
30

Special
Chosen 18*18
MoK +30
GW +36
Shields +18
Full Command +50
Festering Shroud +25
Potion of Toughness +20
503

Ogres 35*6
MoN +30
Chaos Armor +30
Additional Hand weapon +30
Full command +50
350

Rare
Hellcannon
205

2999pt
Overall idea behind the army is, MoN chaos units are the anvil. Chosen and Ogres are the Hammer. and marauders are for causing havoc and allowing my chosen, warriors, ect to get into position. (I think anyone seeing 30 marauders of Khorn have 2 option. Charge and hope you kill them all, or ignore them and get shredded) Hellcannon for ranged support or a good laugh as he charges some unit and noms them :D

Psybilliah
22-07-2010, 18:41
My current 2000 list, would love some input:

Lvl 4 Sorc of Tzeentch on Disc
Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Infernal Puppet, Charmed Shield

Exhalted Hero BSB
Barded Steed, Halberd, Shield, Collar of Khorne

30 Marauders of Khorne
Command, Flails

30 Maruaders of Khorne
Command, Flails

18 Warriors w/ Banner of Rage
Command, Halberds, Shields

18 Warriors of Tzeentch
Command, Shields

6 Chaos Trolls (BSB here)

10 Warhounds


The hounds give me a cheap drop (or 2 if I split them) and can look out sir the Sorc, if necc.

BSB helps the trolls leadership and grants the 5+ ward against magic for when fire comes at them and cant us their regen save.

Would love some feedback.

Edit: added a chaos troll in progress

Kardon
22-07-2010, 19:59
So im having my first battle 8ed against DE or skaven this weekend, so ive cooked this list together (havent tryed 8ed yet so feedback would be good as to what actually still work)

sorc lord- Shadow; Ruby ring, Talisman of preservation,power famillar, conj homunculus(for those odd moments u actually dont get to cast the spell, might drop it)

Exalted Tz;Book of secrets ,Dispel scroll,collar of khorne halberd

Exalted Khorne; BSB, Dragonhelm, SoM

17Warriors of khorne; MU STD halberds

17warriors of khorne; MU std halberds

30 marauders of khorne; MU std GW

5 Chaos knights of khorne; MU STD, banner of rage

5 Chaos knights of khorne MU std, banner of eternal flame

Hellcanon

The basic plan is to deploy 2x knights on the enemies weakest flank. Knowing the ones im gonna play against im pretty sure their gonna have a abo/hydra on one flank and thats the reason for the flame banner on the knights. They will plow through the hydra/abo that is there, use MU to reform and face the flank of the next unit and have 1 of them to go after the unit and one after warmachines in between. Then have 1 of the warrior regiments hopefully up front of that unit for a good 2 way charge. Then basicly do the same on the next unit and so on. The reason for shadow is 2; 1 negate casualty as the line moves up by reducing the BS of their shooting forces, 2 negate the elves greater initiative(where it exists) when we reach combat. The hellcanon is there to wither down I6 things and other scary things. The ring is there to help take out abo's/ hydras(if they bring 2/dont deploy as expected) the exalteds equipment is what im most uncertain about. im quite pleased with the caster, but not sure about the BSB. Ye think this could work? Or am I just having to high hopes about my warriors not getting nuked away before the combat? My biggest wory is if they take lore of metal and rip me apart with that from turn 1.

Wicked_fool
23-07-2010, 13:08
Hey,

Will use the following list next saturday.

Sorcerer Lord, LVL4 (Shadow), Crown of everlasting conquest, Blood of Tzeentch, Charmed Shield, Conjoined Homunculus (in Marauders)
* Maybe i will change the Conjoined Hom (I'm allways forget this item) for Third eye of Tzeentch

Exalted Hero, Mark of Tzeentch, GW, Barded Steed, Talisman of Preservation (in Chosen)

18 Warriors, FC, MoKhorne, Halberds, Shields, banner of Swiftness

24 Marauders, FC, MoTzeentch, Shields

2* 5 Warhounds

16 Chosen, FC, MoTzeentch, Halberds, Shields, Favour of the Gods, Banner of Rage

6 Chaos Trolls

Warshrine

Hellcannon

What do you think?

Tom

Magister_Ordo_Lyrae
23-07-2010, 16:08
@Kardon - looks good but I would still miss my hounds for screening (-2 to hit is nothing to sneeze at). Other concerns is where does the sorc lord go? in a fighty unit he won't be able to get many spells off and without at least a steed he loses some manueverability to get in range for his spells (maybe the shadow power helps with that?). The only other one is why put the banner of rage on MoK knights? seems like they would be better off with MoN or MoS for ignoring terror on the hydra/HPA.

@wicked _fool - also looks good but for MoTz the chosen should get some benenfit from their mark, currently they lack any kind of synergy (no hw/s for 5+ parry, no blasted standard, etc.) MoTz costs to much not to get some ward save synergy from it. Lastly drop the steed from the BSB if he goes in the Chosen and GWs are a waste of his I6. Cheap magic magic weapon or shield would be good. Otherwise maybe shield and hablerd.

just my 2 cents, take it or leave it as you will.

Wicked_fool
23-07-2010, 16:31
@wicked _fool - also looks good but for MoTz the chosen should get some benenfit from their mark, currently they lack any kind of synergy (no hw/s for 5+ parry, no blasted standard, etc.) MoTz costs to much not to get some ward save synergy from it. Lastly drop the steed from the BSB if he goes in the Chosen and GWs are a waste of his I6. Cheap magic magic weapon or shield would be good. Otherwise maybe shield and hablerd.

They've got MoTh for the 12 result on the EotG. The GW is there for the hard targets, he will not die 2+ 3++. I'm thinking about swapping the trolls for Chaos Ogres...

Kardon
23-07-2010, 16:33
@Kardon - looks good but I would still miss my hounds for screening (-2 to hit is nothing to sneeze at). Other concerns is where does the sorc lord go? in a fighty unit he won't be able to get many spells off and without at least a steed he loses some manueverability to get in range for his spells (maybe the shadow power helps with that?). The only other one is why put the banner of rage on MoK knights? seems like they would be better off with MoN or MoS for ignoring terror on the hydra/HPA.

The sorc lord goes into marauders, and swaps with the exalteds as needed be in the magic phase. Most likely atleast 1 of them won't be in combat with an elite, and if so they should(if things goes according to plan) be -d3 I/str etc. The banner of rage is there (if ive understood things correctly) to add another attack to the unit. as extra attack from frenzy stacks they net 4str 5 each. The reason for no MoN and MoS is due to that i dislike both gods.Cheers for the remark on the dogs, id completly forgot about the -2. will take it into consideration :)

Magister_Ordo_Lyrae
24-07-2010, 03:24
well both your points make sense I must admit. Still GWs on anything with I5 seems a waste my preference would be halberds on them and your right about the 2+/3++ that will make him tough to crack. Wasn't trying to crticize harshly just offer some thoughts (stupid interweb lack of tone). Heck I put MoTz on my marauder horsemen with no synergy for fluff reason...

In fairness I will post my list since it didn't seem to garner any attention on its own. feel free to crack at it although please be alittle kind I would appreciate it :D.

So here is my newly conceived 8th addition list after having played 8th a couple of times over weekend. This is not the list I played (that was 2000) but the list I would like to play eventually. My friends and I plan on getting to 3000 shortly and I can fit everything I want in 3000 points.

I like Tzeentch (like the guy even if he does silly things to my dice rolls, 3 marauder horseman make there 6+ ward Save, my power dice are crap every turn, also my favorite color is blue). Having played some more games of 8th I have changed the list I was originally imagining to include marauders, I kind of don't want to but they seem so necessary in this edition oh well at least I can make them Tzeentchy now and they are actually useful.

Some of the commentary is based on games I have played, but I don't have all these models yet. Specifically the hellcannon, the foot marauders, the lord on disk, or the warshrine (its slowly built from a chaos chariot). I would greatly appreciate any advice, tactics, comments or constructive criticisms of my current list idea, my current analysis from the stuff I have played with and from the stuff I have yet to play with. Thank you and apologies for the length.

Lords = 744

Keltazaer - Chaos Lord, MoTz, Charmed Shield, Chaos steed, Talisman of Endurance, Helm of Many Eyes, Sword of Strife (344)

- Killy (7 S5 attacks at ASF with re-rolls at I7) well protected (1+/4++) fighty lord designed to challenge and eat other characters. Sword of strife is exchanged for sword of Ogre (5 S7 attacks are better against somethings, still ASF with re-rolls at I7) against certain foes. He leads the knights with BSB for re-rolls on 9s for stupidity. Charmed shield to protect from cannon sniping (and its cheaper than his regular shield!).

Phoruic - Sorcerer Lord 235, LV4 35, MoTz, Talisman of Preservation, Enchanted shield, Blood of Tzeentch, Disc (400)

- Disc flying day ruiner. I have learned to use the gambling aspect of magic and think a good way of doing it is an easy 2 dicer (treason, pandaemonium) and then throw the 3 dice gateway once they have hopefully used dispel dice and for the finale FF with 1 dice because your probably done anyway and you can always get lucky. Besides throwing more than 4 dice at spell is risky even with blood of Tzeentch helping avoid miscasts. He is well protected (1+/3++) against everything and should be since he will be a target.

Heroes = 387

Bizarax - Exalted Hero, BSB, MoTz, Collar of Khorne, Biting Blade, Shield, Chaos steed (196)

-BSB, in the knights to help with their death star role. the CoK is under costed greatly, and everyone in the unit has a 4++ against magic that way and he has a 5++ (not to mention the 1+ AS). Biting blade so he doesn't feel left out in a unit of magic weapon wielders.

Zolern - Sorcerer LV1, MoTz, power familiar, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, chaos Steed, Conjoined homonculus (191)

-mobile FF platform (casts it once on 1 die, uses homunculus if they still have dispel dice left). Protected from what will come at him (2+/3++ against most stuff) as he doesn't go into combat. The power familiar just seems so necessary to get a reliably decent magic phase in this ed.

Core = 1106 (986 actually counts toward core)

2x15 Chaos warriors, shields, MoTz, standard, champion, musician (each
unit 290 x2 =580)

-The Choppy anvils (5x3). Standard for the CR (25 points doesn't matter that much). Musician for the free reform as it makes them way more
maneuverable. Finally Champs because of the warshrine, the possibility of them getting VPs for killing characters and if feels fluffy.

30 chaos marauders, shields, Light armor, MoTz, Chieftan, standard bearer, Musician (220)

-The bigger not so choppy anvil. *sigh* I didn't want to do it but after seeing these big units in action in 8th I feel like I need one. Still it should survive just about anything with support, and beat equivalent units. FC reasons same as above, except the chieftan here is merely fluffy and a misguided attempt to possibly make it a eensy weensy bit killier.

10 Marauder Horsemen, MoTz, shields, spears, throwing spears, musician (186)

-5x2 to disrupt ranks. throwing spears for the range and quick to fire not ignoring range penalties. Spears because the models look cooler IMHO that way. Musician for well we all know. MoTz is just theme and fluff although that 6+ ward save has been more useful on them than anyone else. They a make good flank charging unit. Also good for skewering fanatics; I hate those guys.

4x5 chaos warhounds (120)

-as they always were but just a wee bit worse. They can screen against anything with a BS, they can bait, they can redirect, they can chase
fanatics out early and land on them as a 30 pt suicide unit (did I mention I hate fanatics?).

Special = 400

8 Chaos knights, MoTz, standard bearer w/ blasted standard (400)

-Death star with Chaos lord and BSB. Holds the to center slightly behind the line to lend their awesomeness to one of the anvil units or with their speed take out big threats like monsters. Blasted standard of course helps keep the 10 strong 5x2 945 point unit (that's with the characters) in shape. Also once again the BSB in this unit has the CoK so the whole units also has a 4++ against magic too.


Rare = 355

Hellcannon (205)

-Still haven't used one but I want to, next purchase is this bad boy. He will hold a flank and hopefully shoot a lot and not cause my casters to have miscasts.

Warshrine, MoTz (150)

-Fluffy, fun Conversion in progress. Gives the warrior champs EoTG which is cool because they will be trying to kill those characters in challenges now. Also Giver of Glory seems really fun even it is random most of the units I will use it on will benefit from most of the rolls (mainly targeting warriors I think but possibly the marauders if the need arises I imagine)

Total = 2992

Jericho
24-07-2010, 07:32
What kind of conversion? I'm working on getting mine started at the moment and you caught my interest :) Mine's basically a modified Corpse Cart pulled by a chained up Troll ... so far anyway.

Magister_Ordo_Lyrae
24-07-2010, 16:07
well its still very much WiP at the moment, and I don't have a good camera so I can't post pictures unfortunately but the intent is a chaos chariot with some holes cut in the front and side panels. The wheels are also getting filed into non-circular irregular shapes. In the center of the chariot is a pile of skulls (cliche I know) with a pole rising out of it with 9 (Teentch's sacred number) other poles attached to its top horizontally (kind of like an umbrella without the fabric part). From that I am giong to hang all the bits on chains I got in the marauder horse box plus a few of my own creation. There will also be Tzeentch Icons all about as well as the chaos spawn bird looking head at the top of the pole.

That's my idea atleast we'll see how it actually turns out since this is my first major conversion.;)

Deff-Face
24-07-2010, 21:39
@Kerill

Thanks very much for your tactica post. I found it really helpful. I'm a new player planning on making WoC my first army. I've written an initial list based on the tactica post and I'd love feedback from you experienced players if I could get it. My goals with the army were 1) don't have a ton of models because I hate painting them (no marauders), 2) not be too magic heavy (since it seemed like I'd need a 400ish pt char to really excel in the magic phase). Here's the list:

Chaos Army - 2004 pts

Lords & Heroes - 475
Sorceror General- 235
Sorc -
Chariot -
Dispell x 2 -

Exalted BSB - 240
Exalted -
MoT -
BSB -
Sword of Might -
Shield
Talisman of Endurance -
Blasted Standard -

Core - 702
Warriors - 354
War x 19 -
Shields -
MoT -
Musician
Standard
Champ

Warriors - 348
War x 18 -
Halberds -
MoK -
Musician
Standard
Champ

Special - 827
Knights - 430
Knights x 10 -
MoK -

Chosen - 397
Chosen x 18 -
Halberds -
Champ w/ Favor -
MoK

Exalted goes with the MoT Warriors to create a really solid (I think) anvil. Chariot, Chosen, Knights and Blender Warriors butcher things. Sorceror is just a chump I need to dispell some stuff and gives me a cheap chariot. So what do you all think?

Magister_Ordo_Lyrae
24-07-2010, 23:39
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but that list is illegal for a couple of reasons:
1. Sorc lord can't take 2 scrolls (they are regular enchanted Items now only can 1), If your worried about magic attacks take your dispel scroll and maybe some protective item on him or who knows what, also a steed might get you some extra points, better AS and still leave you with the maneuverability.

2. BSB can't have both the standard and magic Items, but this problem is solved easily just put it on the MoTz warrior standard bearer. The build for the BSB is otherwise pretty good although I might swap the talisman of Endurance for the collar of Khorne( 5++ instead of 4++ I know but you will have a 4++ against most magic for him and everyone int the unit and a 4++ against all shooting from the standard). This way you can give the sorcerer the talisman of endurance instead.

Other than that looks good :)

Vaktathi
03-08-2010, 03:15
So, I've been thinking about using this list



Lord, MoK, Juggernaught, Chaos Runesword, Talisman of Preservation, Favor of the Gods.

Exalted Hero, BSB, Doom Totem, MoT, Shield.

Sorceror, Level 2, MoT, Dispell Scroll, Disc of Tzeentch. Golden Eye of Tzeentch


18 Warriors (3 ranks of 6), Shields, MoT, Full Command.

24 Warriors (4 ranks of 6), Shields, MoT, Full Command. (BSB goes in here)

18 Warriors (3 ranks of 6), Shields, MoT, Full Command.

6 Warhounds

6 Knights, Mark of Nurgle, Banner of Rage (Lord goes with these guys obviously)

Hellcannon.


However I was considering dropping the Doom totem and just taking Fury of the Blood God on the Hero, and taking two more units of 6 Warhounds, what do people think of this just out of curiosity?

Kardon
03-08-2010, 19:46
u realy should consider razor banner and blasted standard for your warriors. Will give them a real edge against shooting and armored enemies. Altho I do like the list, quite similar to my own, personaly I dont fancy the doom totem, so I would drop that for either doggies or said banners.

Justicar Valius
03-08-2010, 20:06
Doom totem + hellcannon = very fun.

Justicar Valius
03-08-2010, 20:56
Sorcer Lord, Tzeentch, Disc, lvl4, blood of tzeentch, talisman of preservation, conjoined homunculus, 405

Exalted hero, BSB, necrotic phylactery, stream of corruption, 165

39 marauders, khorrne, great weapons, full command, 245

18 Warriors, Tzeentch, shields, full command, blasted standard, 378

12 warriors, full command, tzeentch, shields, 242

10 warhounds, 60

5 warhounds, 30

5 warhounds, 30

5 knights, standard, champion, 240

hellcannon, 205

BSB with marauders, warhounds screen, hellcannon shoots the lowest LD thing in sight (unless they're skaven slaves, want other stuff to panic as well)

ipcutler
06-03-2011, 16:02
Hi All,
Fairly new to Warhammer and have decide to go with WoC. I have put this 2400 point army together and wondered what more experienced players thought?

2400 Pts - Warriors of Chaos Roster

Total Roster Cost: 2397

Sorcerer Lord (1#, 365 pts)
1 Sorcerer Lord of Nurgle, 290 pts = (base cost 235 + Level 4 Upgrade 35) + Mark of Nurgle 20
1 Biting Blade, 5 pts
1 Charmed Shield, 5 pts
1 Talisman of Preservation, 45 pts
1 Bloodcurdling Roar, 20 pts

Sorcerer (1#, 140 pts)
1 Chaos Sorcerer, 85 pts
1 Dispel Scroll, 25 pts
1 Ironcurse Icon, 5 pts
1 Third Eye of Tzeentch, 25 pts

Exalted Hero (1#, 210 pts)
1 Exalted Hero of Tzeentch (Battle Standard Bearer), 150 pts = (base cost 110 + Shield 5 + Battle Standard Bearer 25) + Mark of Tzeentch 10
1 Sword of Swift Slaying, 25 pts
1 The Bronze Armour of Zhrakk, 15 pts
1 Stream of Corruption, 20 pts

Chaos Knights (6#, 290 pts)
6 Chaos Knights of Khorne, 290 pts = 6 * 40 (base cost 40) + Mark of Khorne 30 + Standard Bearer Std 20

Chaos Warriors (22#, 426 pts)
22 ~[(^One or more selected options present a potential usage conflict]~[(#]Chaos Warriors of Khorne, 416 pts = 22 * 17 (base cost 15 + Extra Hand Weapon 1 + Halberd 1) + Mark of Khorne 30 + Standard Bearer Std 12
1 Banner of Eternal Flame, 10 pts

Chaos Warriors (20#, 388 pts)
20 ~[(^One or more selected options present a potential usage conflict]~[(#]Chaos Warriors of Khorne, 388 pts = 20 * 17 (base cost 15 + Extra Hand Weapon 1 + Halberd 1) + Mark of Khorne 30 + Musician Mus 6 + Standard Bearer Std 12

Chaos Marauders (40#, 272 pts)
40 Chaos Marauders of Tzeentch, 272 pts = 40 * 6 (base cost 4 + Light Armour 1 + Shield 1) + Mark of Tzeentch 20 + Musician Mus 4 + Standard Bearer Std 8

Marauder Horsemen (5#, 101 pts)
5 Marauder Horsemen of Slaanesh, 101 pts = 5 * 17 (base cost 13 + Flail 2 + Throwing Spear 1 + Light Armour 1) + Mark of Slaanesh 10 + Musician Mus 6

Squad (4#, 205 pts)
1 Hellcannon, 205 pts

My thinking is Nurgle law to get regenerate on one or other Khorne warrios for grinding / killing.
The Marauder infanrty as an anwil with the lvl 1 to give them a 5+ war machine ward and 5+ cc ward.
The 2 blocks of WoC kill stuff and the Knights and Marauder cav hunt warmachiens / flank attacks?
Any advice / ideas many thanks