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Midevil216
12-07-2010, 15:10
Question:
Do forests slow your movement down? Dosen't say in the rulebook that it does, just that Cav, Mo.Cav. and Chariots who charge, flee, persuit through it take a dangerous terrain test.

Also, can I chare through it so long as I can see the enemy with no penality to movement? By reading it sounds like you can shoot through it to the other side so could I charge through it?, if so then strider (forest) means nothing.

Sorry if this is a stupid question but I looked through the rulebook and, at least I, have not found anything conserning this.

Any help would be apperciated.

N810
12-07-2010, 15:13
Nope Forest won't slow you down now...
but they might just kill you :eek:

UberBeast
12-07-2010, 16:19
Only mysterious forests can hurt you.

Gonzoyola
12-07-2010, 16:30
Dont cav take a test for going through any kind of forest?

Midevil216
12-07-2010, 16:34
Dont cav take a test for going through any kind of forest?

they take a dangerous terrain test if the March, Charge,Overrun, flee or pursues through a forest, I think if they make a normal move (base move) then no test is required.

Garoth
12-07-2010, 22:31
Question:
Do forests slow your movement down? Dosen't say in the rulebook that it does, just that Cav, Mo.Cav. and Chariots who charge, flee, persuit through it take a dangerous terrain test.

No, they do not slow you down. Neither no obstacles. Or Marslands. Rivers only prevent marching, but even rivers do not cause any other movement penalties.

So pretty much all terrain just causes Dangerous Terrain test now instead of slowing units down.



Also, can I chare through it so long as I can see the enemy with no penality to movement? By reading it sounds like you can shoot through it to the other side so could I charge through it?,

No movement penalties on charges either.



if so then strider (forest) means nothing.

That is what I tought also, until I realised that assuming that Strider rule gives you the ability to move at full speed in certain terrain was just wrong.

Still Infantry models with Strider (Forests) seem to get awfully little out of it, but still there is one type of Mysterous Forest (Venom Thicket) that causes Dangerous terrain test on all models (including infantry).


Only mysterious forests can hurt you.

All forests are mysterous by default. And Cavalry, Mosterous Cavalry and Chariots can get hurt in any kind of a forest.

Shrapnelsmile
13-07-2010, 01:25
I'm thinking some Lord of the Rings ENTS would make for fun forest replacement once they turn harmful.

meneroth
13-07-2010, 01:37
well if you roll a 1 on the forest generation chart your just looking at a normal, non-mysterious forest but it does seem like GW went out of thier way to make foreststrider useless and forests more entertaining.

Seth the Dark
13-07-2010, 02:04
Only mysterious forests can hurt you.

All forests are Mysterious unfortunately.

larabic
13-07-2010, 03:14
Pretty sure it says you don't have to use the mysterious forest rules, same things for streams, buildings etc... Some times a woods is just a woods...

UberBeast
13-07-2010, 05:05
All forests are Mysterious unfortunately.


I'm looking for the rule that says this, and I can't find it. Care to point it out for me?

Maarten K
13-07-2010, 05:45
Strider is usefull: ranked units lose their rankbonus if fighting in a forest and can't claim steadfast, with strider you can.

Seth the Dark
13-07-2010, 07:09
I'm looking for the rule that says this, and I can't find it. Care to point it out for me?

On pg 119 right under "Mysterious Forests", first sentence: "Forests are mysterious terrain"

Smiling Banshee
13-07-2010, 07:28
Strider is usefull: ranked units lose their rankbonus if fighting in a forest and can't claim steadfast, with strider you can.

Can you give me a pg ref for this please. I cant recall reading the bit about Strider allowing you to claim steadfast in Forests. I thought it just made you exempt from dangerous terrain test whilst in forests.

Hialmar
13-07-2010, 07:37
At the local store it sounds like they have already decided to not use the various additional terrain rules, especially the ones regarding mysterious forests.

Dokushin
13-07-2010, 08:59
Forests slow down units by killing the ones that march/charge through them.

I had felt a little uneasy about the no movement penalty for terrain until I played a few games. Really, I think the new take makes for more believable games -- it doesn't take three turns for someone who clipped a forest to snap out of it, but charging through the woods carries a significant risk. 2+ or die for cavalry is pretty huge.

Falkman
13-07-2010, 09:46
Strider is usefull: ranked units lose their rankbonus if fighting in a forest and can't claim steadfast, with strider you can.
Not correct, Strider only allows you to ignore the dangerous terrain tests, all the other special rules of the terrain in question still applies.

Wastel
13-07-2010, 15:20
The rules on page 119 explain that Woods bestow soft cover. But i find nothing that Woods block line of sight. Can i really see through any depth of woods?

N810
13-07-2010, 15:39
The rules on page 119 explain that Woods bestow soft cover. But i find nothing that Woods block line of sight. Can i really see through any depth of woods?

That all depends on how you modeled your woods...

true line of sight and all that...
check out the iluistration at the bottom of the page
where it has the giant hiding behind the house...

Maarten K
13-07-2010, 16:37
Not correct, Strider only allows you to ignore the dangerous terrain tests, all the other special rules of the terrain in question still applies.

Seems you're right, strider is useless indeed, time for a houserule...

Balerion
13-07-2010, 16:38
On pg 119 right under "Mysterious Forests", first sentence: "Forests are mysterious terrain"
Well, you aren't considering that "Mysterious Forests" is a subheading under "Forests".

I agree with your premise in a strict RaW sense, but there is enough wiggle room for people to get away with using normal forests.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous that 83% of WFB forests are magical. We've already houseruled away that idiocy, and a forest only becomes defined as mysterious on a roll of 1.

theorox
13-07-2010, 16:58
Omgwtfbbq i can't wait for my book to arrive! :D

So what is the deal with mystrious forests, is there a note saying you don't have to use mysterious terrain or something?

Theo

yabbadabba
13-07-2010, 17:04
Apparently you have the option of using d6+4 pieces of terrain, or using the terrain special rules.

If you want to go by the letter of the rules, then you are going to have to make some very expensive forests as TLoS blockers. My advice is to sort this out with your opponent before you start playing. There is no difference between declaring a forest with 2 trees is TLoS or a LoS blocker as long as both sides agree.

Falkman
13-07-2010, 17:38
It doesn't seem to be GWs intent to have forests block LoS completely though, what with the to-hit modifier for shooting through them and all.

dooombot
13-07-2010, 17:40
Yes, as others have stated, Forests don't block Line of Sight. As long as you can actually see the models you can shoot. You do have cover if you are in a forest though.

MrMiscast
13-07-2010, 20:26
Well, you aren't considering that "Mysterious Forests" is a subheading under "Forests".

I agree with your premise in a strict RaW sense, but there is enough wiggle room for people to get away with using normal forests.

However under "Forests" in the second paragraph it says that all forests follow the rules below. So yes all forests are mysterious.

I think the new terrain adds alot more depth to the game and from my limited experience with 8th they are quite enjoyable.

solkan
13-07-2010, 20:33
I'm quite certain that there are Terrain Rules Enforcers being dispatched to stores around the world to ensure that all players follow the new regime and that no one attempts to place a "normal" forest. :rolleyes:

I'd like to point out that the random terrain generation table on page 142 lists "Mysterious Forest". Why would they do that if all forests were by law mysterious?

yabbadabba
13-07-2010, 20:44
Odin has already posted elsewhere that there is an option for players to place d6+4 pieces of terrain OR to use the special terrain rules. Now as I don't have the BRB I cannot varify that, but I cannot see a reason why he wold make that up.

So someone care to have a look?

solkan
13-07-2010, 20:57
Odin has already posted elsewhere that there is an option for players to place d6+4 pieces of terrain OR to use the special terrain rules. Now as I don't have the BRB I cannot varify that, but I cannot see a reason why he wold make that up.

So someone care to have a look?

The rulebook says, "Place at least D6+4 pieces of terrain upon the battlefield, choosing the pieces from your terrain collection (selecting which of the rules on pages 116-131 you will use to represent each piece.)". That's on page 142 about two paragraphs above the random terrain chart.

So you can put down one forest, say "This is a regular forest," put down another forest and then say, "but this one is mysterious ooooh aaah :skull:" if you want. :p

yabbadabba
13-07-2010, 21:04
Yeah, I just got the same message back from Odin (cheers fella). So not every forest has to be mysterious.

C'mon guys, I appreciate the love of the rules but scenery is one of those areas where you can be creative and think outside of the rulebook.

MrMiscast
13-07-2010, 21:44
So you can put down one forest, say "This is a regular forest," put down another forest and then say, "but this one is mysterious ooooh aaah :skull:" if you want. :p

No there are no ordinary forests on the terrain generator. As per the forest rules all of them are following the mysterious forest rule and you only get an ordinary forest on the roll of a 1 (one). And that you donīt roll before you enter/deploy within a wood.


Yeah, I just got the same message back from Odin (cheers fella). So not every forest has to be mysterious.

C'mon guys, I appreciate the love of the rules but scenery is one of those areas where you can be creative and think outside of the rulebook.

People are free to play as they please but thereīs no point in arguing that the rules permit knowing that a forest is ordinary before entering it. There simply isnīt. And itīs hardly creative to skip the cool new terrain and just play everything as "ordinary".

Anaris
13-07-2010, 21:55
Exactly, plus it would also be nice to play a game with WE's and not be afraid of entering any woods on the table.

yabbadabba
13-07-2010, 21:56
Mr Miscast, while I do not have the rulebook, this is the quote I got from Odic
"Yes, no problem. It's page 142, under "The Battlefield"...

".Place at least D6+4 pieces of terrain upon the battlefield, choosing the pieces from your terrain collection (selecting which of the rules on pages 116-131 you will use to represent each piece)

Alternatively make at least D6+4 rolls on the Random Terrain Chart to determine what kind of terrain your army will fight over."

Seems pretty clear that the default system is just to choose the terrain however you want to, and that the wacky table is an alternative system. Fortunately!"
Now that says to me that should you wish, you and your opponent can choose how you want your battlefield to be, or you can make it random. Now if Odin has quoted that wrong, then I apologise and this next bit won't work. If on pages 116-131 has the table for generating forests, and you can chose what rules you want, doesn't this then lead to being able to have ordinary forests?

kyuzo
13-07-2010, 22:03
You roll d6+4 for the amount of terrain and then 2d6 for each to represent what each one does. It is as simple and clear as that.

death__lord
13-07-2010, 22:12
You roll d6+4 for the amount of terrain and then 2d6 for each to represent what each one does. It is as simple and clear as that.

Nope, Odin is completely right. You can choose to roll on the table or just decide for yourself.

MrMiscast
13-07-2010, 22:40
Iīm not arguing the point about setting up the terrain. If you have an elven waystone but no Idol of Gork then by all means you should play it as what it is. The point Iīm trying to make is that you canīt choose that a forrest is ordinary. Let me explain.

All terrain features have set rules to them. Under Forests it says that ALL forests follow the rules below and one of the rules below is Mysterious Forests, itīs as much a forest rule as forests granting you soft cover is. If you have a Tower of Blood you know what it does. However you donīt roll on the Mysterious Forest-table untill you enter or deploy within the wood. Thus you donīt know the forest type untill itīs a part in your game.

Now you can play with ordinary forests but that doesnīt seem to be within the rules. For that to happen youre basicly saying: "Whenever someone enters a forest itīs an automatic roll of 1(one) on the mysterious forest-table.

I for one had high hopes on the new terrain rules and I havenīt been disappointed thus far. I hope people settle in with the new rules and realise that mysterious terrain is a fun part of it. If they arenīt special then all woods do is granting some softish cover and might be dangerous to some types while infantry can wander straight through. I rather take the mysterious forest special rule in exchange for not being slowed down.

yabbadabba
13-07-2010, 22:53
I cannot deeply argue this Mr Miscast without access to the rules, but if the quote is right from Odin, then it appears that people have the choice.

MrMiscast
13-07-2010, 23:02
@yabbadabba: I misinterpreted what you wrote and you are indeed correct in that. Since the entire section about forests is within the pages you mentioned you can choose not to play with the mysterious forest rule. My bad.

SideshowLucifer
14-07-2010, 02:12
I'd like to point out that it doesn't realy matter how your forests are modeled either since the rules say you can ignore and move the trees in the forest, so they always only provide cover.

Duck Dodgers
14-07-2010, 03:16
All forests are Mysterious unfortunately.

Yes, but the rule is that the first time someone enters a Mysterious Forest, they roll to see which one it is; and the result for a 1 is "Ordinary Forest", which is harmless.

So yes, all are mysterious, but not all are "deadly". And the Abyssal Forest does not damage units in it, it merely makes those units cause Fear. So there's 1/3 if the results without damaging/hindering results.

Forest Strider and Venom Thicket makes a nasty combo; ignore the Dangerous terrain test (no threat to the unit), and gain Poison Attacks.

Bodysnatcher
14-07-2010, 06:38
Forest Strider and Venom Thicket makes a nasty combo; ignore the Dangerous terrain test (no threat to the unit), and gain Poison Attacks.

Wonderfully fluffy for Gobbo spider riders.
"Meeet ma ikkle friends!" *flings spiders*

shelfunit.
14-07-2010, 07:34
Wow, there seems to be a lot of "rules lawyer-ing" going on in this thread :confused:

As long as you and your opponent agree, any piece of terrain can be any thing you want it to be, from some of the posts here it sounds like people will phone up GW and demand the "rules police" come round. Chill.

yabbadabba
14-07-2010, 08:04
Wow, there seems to be a lot of "rules lawyer-ing" going on in this thread :confused: Its a bad habit from 6th/7th mate, it will soon go :)


As long as you and your opponent agree, any piece of terrain can be any thing you want it to be, from some of the posts here it sounds like people will phone up GW and demand the "rules police" come round. Chill. Well..... that has always been the principle. However thanks to Mr Miscast and Odin for their support we can also confirm that it is a part of the rules too! :D