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View Full Version : Precedent for stacking Frenzy!?



Hellebore
13-07-2010, 04:31
Is in the rulebook on page 434 where a pack of 10 giant rats is frenzied twice by warpstone meteorites and produce 30 attacks...

Hellebore

Necromancy Black
13-07-2010, 06:28
Hang on, that's Skaven and the Skaven book has a special form of frenzy that gives you 2 attacks.

Hellebore
13-07-2010, 06:36
No the frenzy was caused by battlefield objectives that granted frenzy to anyone within range.

The frenzy came from two seperate sources and the text says "Frenzied (twice) by the meteors, the giant rats proved to be deadly little killing machines!". This is in the side text the other is in the body text on the page.

The text then says 10 of them produced 30 attacks.

Hellebore

Ramius4
13-07-2010, 06:45
I don't have the book in front of me, but did you read the rules for the battlefield objective? Perhaps it has unique rules.

msinosic
13-07-2010, 06:51
Yes it has unique abilities that specifically say each time you roll up said ability you get an extra +1 Attack with to the Frenzy you already have... so no this doesn't help in the debate with cumulative special rules.

Ramius4
13-07-2010, 06:56
Yes it has unique abilities that specifically say each time you roll up said ability you get an extra +1 Attack with to the Frenzy you already have... so no this doesn't help in the debate with cumulative special rules.

Well there's the answer then. ;)

Hellebore
13-07-2010, 07:06
Hmm, well it says that if you are already frenzied you gain +1 attack which isn't the same as how it's described later in where it specifically says they get frenzied twice which isn't what the meteorite is supposed to do.

Oh well.

Hellebore

Walls
13-07-2010, 07:29
Frenzy is going to confuse alot of people. For instance, you do NOT get an extra attack for Frenzy if you are already getting an extra attack for an extra hand weapon.

SideshowLucifer
13-07-2010, 12:34
I'm pretty sure your mistaken there.

BigBossOgryn
13-07-2010, 12:47
Page 430 side bar: 'Slathering Bloodlust. The unit is subject to Frenzy. If the unit is already subject to Frenzy, it adds +1 Attack.'

Problem solved?

Spawn of Icarus
13-07-2010, 12:58
dont have book in front of me right now but sounds like special rule where the "effect" is to grant you frenzy? If thats the case the fact granting frenzy is the effect of the rule is why it stacks.

Lord Zarkov also pointed out "Storm rage" in the other thread, which by same logic would stack (i was just too tired to understand what he was getting at at the time.)

Walls
13-07-2010, 15:03
I'm pretty sure your mistaken there.

I don't think so. Both Frenzy and Extra Hand Weapon confer the special rule extra attack. It's not that they just give you and extra attack, but give you a fantasy USR. It's a generality in GW that you don't stack USR's. It would be like stacking armor piercing or fight in extra ranks or devastating charge or magic resistance. You have an MR2 Item, you're MR2. You have an MR1 and MR3 item, you're MR3, not MR4.

Lord of the End Times
13-07-2010, 15:17
I don't think so. Both Frenzy and Extra Hand Weapon confer the special rule extra attack. It's not that they just give you and extra attack, but give you a fantasy USR. It's a generality in GW that you don't stack USR's. It would be like stacking armor piercing or fight in extra ranks or devastating charge or magic resistance. You have an MR2 Item, you're MR2. You have an MR1 and MR3 item, you're MR3, not MR4.

I can see why you might think that and I concede that is how one might interpret the wording but I am sure this was not the intention. If you check the new warriors of chaos tactica on the GW website, it specifically mentions adding the mark of Khorne and extra hand weapons to chaos warriors to give them 4 attacks (they have 2 as standard).
Also, as frenzied warriors cannot parry they are rather often going to have 2 hand weapons which would be utterly pointless under your interpretation.
I do think however that you cannot gain more than one attack for being frenzied multiple times.

The_Bureaucrat
13-07-2010, 16:05
Looking at page 430, I'd hardly call it official as the stupidity in the chart also gives WS 1 which is not a normal effect. That said it may have some influence how I'd house rule it.

A good find tho.

Necromancy Black
14-07-2010, 02:57
I can see why you might think that and I concede that is how one might interpret the wording but I am sure this was not the intention. If you check the new warriors of chaos tactica on the GW website, it specifically mentions adding the mark of Khorne and extra hand weapons to chaos warriors to give them 4 attacks (they have 2 as standard).
Also, as frenzied warriors cannot parry they are rather often going to have 2 hand weapons which would be utterly pointless under your interpretation.
I do think however that you cannot gain more than one attack for being frenzied multiple times.

Firstly, the way the rules are written they give the same rule and not +1 each so interpreting it as they don't stack is RAW, and while it may not be RAI, RAI is much, much harder to find rulings for until GW release an FAQ (which had bloody be soon).

Secondly, are you talking about the same GW site that had 7th edition tactica for Lizardmen saying you could use a skink priest to channel any spell from a Slaan when in fact the Army Book made it clear you couldn't? Never use the GW site or White Dwarf for precedent, stick to army books and FAQ's ;)

SideshowLucifer
14-07-2010, 03:04
I was pretty sure the rulebook stated that the extra attack effect stacked.

Walls
14-07-2010, 08:09
Hey, if someone can point out the page that it's shown on, I'll believe you. But right now, that's the reasoning. I CAN see it being RAW _and_ RAI

Archangelion
14-07-2010, 11:21
See my post in the other thread concerning special rules stacking...

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266317&page=5

BigBossOgryn
14-07-2010, 11:24
There was no double Frenzy stacking! The side bar explaining the effects of the Meteorite tell you why the rat swarms had two extra attacks. It was just some slightly poor wording from their controller. I think he meant that they had been affected by Slathering Bloodlust twice, not frenzy.