PDA

View Full Version : Teclis --> What lore in 8th?



TheSanityAssassin
13-07-2010, 04:33
We've all seemingly come to the conclusion that Teclis will be an absolute beast in 8th, given his ability to pretty much guarantee 1 spell a turn at IF with no consequences, and possibly more depending on how many risks you want to take. But the question that's burning my mind right now is what lore to take him with?

My first thought is Shadow, as Okkam's Mindrazor and High Elves = yes, and some of the de-buffing hexes are quite nice, as is our old friend Pit of Shades, even if it does scatter. The Character Switching bit can be handy too, getting him away from Combats if he gets stuck. That said, I don't like the lack of a Strength based attack spell that you can fling with some leftover dice.

That leads me to Life, as upping your Toughness and re-growing Elves are both huge in a T3, expensive army. Dwellers Below is also a mean one, and I do like the healing buff.

Then we can look at Death, where he simply becomes a vessel to fling out Purple Suns over and over again....this could get gross quickly, though I worry about the misfire result starting to kill your own models (or Teclis himself...I don't want him taking a S test...)

Some other options are Metal where he simply rips Final Transmutation at units, and starts to smash units, or gives your Elves a 5+ scaly skin, which takes their armour up to a very nice 3+

I've also considered Beasts, but it's mainly good on lower level casters to get out the basic spell...I like the idea of freely turning Teclis into a Dragon, but I think he can do more damage in his Elven form, and I don't want him getting turned back and left out in the open....


And then we get back to High Magic. While it seems somewhat weak compared to the new book lores, I wouldn't scoff at the ability to cast Flames of the Phoenix every turn, or tear out Vaul's Unmaking and start destroying magic items....heck even a 5+ Ward Save can be huge with the number of attacks getting put out.


So folks, what lore do you think is best to stick on the High Loremaster to bring victory to the warriors of Ulthuan?

HeroFox
13-07-2010, 06:09
Then we can look at Death, where he simply becomes a vessel to fling out Purple Suns over and over again....this could get gross quickly, though I worry about the misfire result starting to kill your own models (or Teclis himself...I don't want him taking a S test...)

It's a I test.. and Teclis is I5.. as are all your Elves. You don't really have to worry when it's a 1/6 chance to fail.

Anyways, I play competitive High Elves, you should check out my blog if you want tips on the magic phase - especially if it's about Teclis.

Oh, and Teclis has High Loremaster and he can CHOOSE what Lore he wants before the battle starts unlike other mages. So.. take whatever you want that best fits the battleplan.

TheSanityAssassin
13-07-2010, 06:16
Ooh. I apparently missed that one. This makes my choice somewhat easier...I can stick with Shadow or Death against Low I forces, take Metal against high Save ones and Life against others....

Vsurma
13-07-2010, 06:20
Life and keeping +4 T on teclis unit at all times might be worth considering, that way he doesn't die from dwellers below on a 3+.

Also since everything attacks in 2 ranks now, ANY unit of skirmishers, flyers or other 2pt models etc that gets into CC with teclis is likely to do 2 wounds on average, it is harder than ever to protect him.

kaintxu
13-07-2010, 22:27
Dweleers bellow is S test not T test so keeping on hin the +4T buffs does nothing Vsurna.

Davemaddocks
16-07-2010, 20:51
Death all the way.

I have come up with a lil gem you take a lvl 2 with shadow and the seerstaff.

you take steed of shadows and the sig spell.

keep him on the flank of your army and keep teclis close.

Turn 1 move forward and cast steed of shadows on your lil mage making sure he is close enough to teclis to swap using shadow attribute.

use 4 ish dice to cast it then swap with teclis. Teclis then launches the big 25+ sun of doom spell wich will travel all the way accross your opponents army because it cant stop on a unit and moast units are less then 5" appart.

the death attribute will easy give you 12 dice back. cast misty miasma with the lvl 2 again teclis goes back in the unit nice and safe and with his remaining dice snipes what ever passed the I tests

I used this against a lizard army and had my opponent shake my hand before he even moved

Dokushin
16-07-2010, 21:08
You cannot use Teclis to choose a lore after seeing your opponent's army.

Arguing that the wording of "High Loremaster" allows it is a trifle pedantic; in addition, that would open up several characters (including Slann Mage-Priests with Focus of Mystery) to choosing after the army is deployed.

They pretty specifically disallowed this in the rulebook.

Screaming Manti
16-07-2010, 21:33
I'm afraid your wrong Teclis can choose his lore at the start of the game, the high loremaster special rule for him is as follows:

"Teclis is a lvl4 wizard and may choose any one of the eight lores of magic or high magic before the game starts, whichever lore he chooses he knows all six spells."

The special rule also goes on to say about the doubles being IF.

Dokushin
16-07-2010, 21:44
I'm afraid your wrong Teclis can choose his lore at the start of the game, the high loremaster special rule for him is as follows:

"Teclis is a lvl4 wizard and may choose any one of the eight lores of magic or high magic before the game starts, whichever lore he chooses he knows all six spells."

The special rule also goes on to say about the doubles being IF.

Ok, we can play ball. I'm aware of what his rule says and was before I posted. Let's look at it in detail.

"...before the game starts, ..."

So the question is when the game starts, right?

BRB 8th Edition p2:

"OVERVIEW OF THE GAME

1. MUSTER YOUR FORCES
text omitted

2. CHOOSE A PITCHED BATTLE
text omitted

3. SET UP THE BATTLEFIELD
text omitted

4. DEPLOY ARMIES
text omitted

5. FIGHT!
text omitted

6. DETERMINE THE WINNER
text omitted"

The game "begins" with choosing your army; deployment doesn't happen until phase 4.

You, therefore, have to choose the lore Teclis takes when writing your list, and cannot wait until forces are deploying.

Otherwise you are cheating and not obeying both his rules and the rules in the BRB.

The_Lemon
16-07-2010, 21:57
Actually given your interpretation "before the game starts" its even before you choose him as an army option, first step is choosing your list. So that means before I even start writting my list I must choose a lore even if I do not intend to field him, yeah right.

Dokushin
16-07-2010, 22:04
Actually given your interpretation "before the game starts" its even before you choose him as an army option, first step is choosing your list. So that means before I even start writting my list I must choose a lore even if I do not intend to field him, yeah right.

So you agree that "before the game" doesn't give a rules-bound timeframe and Teclis is therefore bound by the rules in the BRB?

Zinch
16-07-2010, 22:13
Actually given your interpretation "before the game starts" its even before you choose him as an army option, first step is choosing your list. So that means before I even start writting my list I must choose a lore even if I do not intend to field him, yeah right.

Ok, Dokushin gives a bad explanation, but: don't you write your list before starting a game? Don't you accomplish Teclis rules and BRB rules choosing your lore when you write your list?

If an errata don't solve this issue, Dokusin is right, you have to chose your lore like any other wizard

Doommasters
16-07-2010, 22:27
At the game store i just started playing at Teclis is not allowed to pick and choose different lores for each opponent, he must pick the lore before knowing the opponent.

TheKingInYellow
16-07-2010, 22:35
At the game store i just started playing at Teclis is not allowed to pick and choose different lores for each opponent, he must pick the lore before knowing the opponent.

I don't know, I think this one is pretty clear, so in this case you are just throwing out a special rule with no real justification. Why have the rule for Teclis if he selects his Lore exactly like every other mage?

HeroFox
16-07-2010, 22:39
Could be GW oversight.

Wouldn't be the first time :/

Davemaddocks
16-07-2010, 22:59
I dont think this whole issue matters, Its a rule in the book thats done just for sportsmanship.

Theres nothing stopping you changing your list swapping a couple of bolt thowers for another mage etc.

Or chaging your list to specifically beat certain things. so he could pick at the start of each game you play

In a tourny teclis would have to choose when you hand in your list same as every other mage because no judge would allow a small oversight to give him an advantage.

Foxbat
16-07-2010, 23:30
Ok, we can play ball. I'm aware of what his rule says and was before I posted. Let's look at it in detail.

"...before the game starts, ..."

So the question is when the game starts, right?

BRB 8th Edition p2:

"OVERVIEW OF THE GAME

1. MUSTER YOUR FORCES
text omitted

2. CHOOSE A PITCHED BATTLE
text omitted

3. SET UP THE BATTLEFIELD
text omitted

4. DEPLOY ARMIES
text omitted

5. FIGHT!
text omitted

6. DETERMINE THE WINNER
text omitted"

The game "begins" with choosing your army; deployment doesn't happen until phase 4.

You, therefore, have to choose the lore Teclis takes when writing your list, and cannot wait until forces are deploying.

Otherwise you are cheating and not obeying both his rules and the rules in the BRB.Unfortunately, sections “1 Muster Your Forces” and “2 Choose A Pitched Battle” do not use the word “game” in the descriptions at all. In fact they simply refer to a “Warhammer Battle”. The first instance of the word “game” actually appearing in the rules (apart from the title) referenced is not until section “4 Deploy Armies” when it states “...tells you which side will take the first turn of the game.”

So, it would appear that based on the rules quoted, a “game” of Warhammer does not actually start until somewhere in or at the deployment step.

Hydex
17-07-2010, 15:51
Question, how do you protect Teclis from Sniper units or some spells?

WarhammerNoob4ever
17-07-2010, 17:01
I don't know, I think this one is pretty clear, so in this case you are just throwing out a special rule with no real justification. Why have the rule for Teclis if he selects his Lore exactly like every other mage?

bc the special rule he is talkin about throwing out was written for 7th ed, along with the entire HE book, where it was correct for Teclis to choose his lore at the start of the battle, like every other wizard did in 7th......

Foxbat
17-07-2010, 17:01
Question, how do you protect Teclis from Sniper units or some spells?Against spells you need to use the Loremaster’s Cloak or the Banner of World Dragon. My money is on the Banner of the World Dragon.

As for the Sniper special rule, the best option is likely careful use of screening units to get a -2 To Hit hard cover shooting modifier (BRB pg 41) and casting a spell or using a magic items that gives a further -1 To Hit shooting modifier. Assuming you just use a screen and a spell your opponent would be at -3 To Hit plus a further -1 To Hit adjustment identified in the Sniper special rule for a grand total of -4. At short range Teclis would be hit by a BS3 model on an 8+ (1 in 18 chance) and 9+ (1 in 36 chance) at long range.

TheKingInYellow
17-07-2010, 20:23
bc the special rule he is talkin about throwing out was written for 7th ed, along with the entire HE book, where it was correct for Teclis to choose his lore at the start of the battle, like every other wizard did in 7th......

But a special in the army book supercedes the BRB just like Speed of Asuryan supercedes the loss of ASF with GWs. Doesn't matter the edition, army book wins.

Dokushin
17-07-2010, 21:55
But a special in the army book supercedes the BRB just like Speed of Asuryan supercedes the loss of ASF with GWs. Doesn't matter the edition, army book wins.

There is an interpretation of the rule that fits with both the Army Book and the BRB -- that you pick when you're making your list, as that's "before the game starts." You can't interpret Army Book rules any way you want to when there's a solution that fits both the AB and the BRB, which is obviously what was intended.

So, how about this: the Slann's "Focus of Mystery" says to choose a lore "instead of choosing spells normally." Since you choose spells by rolling for them, does this mean the Slann gets to choose a lore at the time spells are rolled for? I'd play Teclis could if my Slann could.

Foxbat
18-07-2010, 00:35
the Slann's "Focus of Mystery" says to choose a lore "instead of choosing spells normally." Since you choose spells by rolling for them, does this mean the Slann gets to choose a lore at the time spells are rolled for? Yes as this is what the rule says, unless GW changes it via an errata of course :D

Asmodai48
18-07-2010, 07:57
Teclis doesnt have to beat the casting roll does he? as long as he gets a double he will cast and irresistible? Thats how we have been playing it atm pretty crazy :O

HeroFox
18-07-2010, 09:19
Teclis doesnt have to beat the casting roll does he? as long as he gets a double he will cast and irresistible? Thats how we have been playing it atm pretty crazy :O

He has to hit the casting value...

Edit:


Page 66 – Teclis, High Loremaster
Change the last paragraph to “In addition, any spell cast by
Teclis will be cast with irresistible force on any successful
casting roll that is a double, however it will only be considered
a miscast if the roll includes a double 6.”

Page 66 – Teclis, War Crown of Saphery
Change the second sentence to “The spell is still cast with
irresistible force, but Teclis is able to dissipate the magical
energies harmlessly and suffers no ill effects.”

Note that it says "any successful casting roll". That applies he has to hit the casting value; same with Book of Hoeth.

Logic512
18-07-2010, 09:26
He has to hit the casting value...

Incorrect. Read the rulebook regarding Irresistible Force before posting. Here, I will help; page 33, 2nd column, 3rd paragraph, first sentence: "...Irresistible Force automatically succeeds..."

edited for carity

HeroFox
18-07-2010, 09:27
Incorrect. Read the rulebook regarding Irresistible Force before posting. Here, I will help; page 33, 2nd column, 3rd paragraph, first sentence. My God this site needs someone to moderate the piles of dung people leave lying around.

My army book > your BRB.

Thanks, but try again. The item is specifically telling me I have to hit the casting value aka a successful cast.

Take it to the Rules forum. Any doubles = successful cast + IF is the biggest crock of crap I've ever seen.

Dungeon_Lawyer
18-07-2010, 09:35
Teclis doesnt have to beat the casting roll does he? as long as he gets a double he will cast and irresistible? Thats how we have been playing it atm pretty crazy :O

:rolleyes:

people need to learn to read


Incorrect. Read the rulebook regarding Irresistible Force before posting. Here, I will help; page 33, 2nd column, 3rd paragraph, first sentence: "...Irresistible Force automatically succeeds..."

edited for carity

And you need to read the section of the rulebook that states that the rules written in the armybooks supercede anything written in the rulebook---and then reread teclis' rules again. Even the new FAQ states he has to hit the casting value of the spell--seriously are you that retarded--How OP does this dude need to be for you to actually win a game?

HEROFOX HAS MAD STREETCRED MISTER "65" POSTS---

HeroFox
18-07-2010, 09:38
Incorrect. Read the rulebook regarding Irresistible Force before posting. Here, I will help; page 33, 2nd column, 3rd paragraph, first sentence: "...Irresistible Force automatically succeeds..."

edited for carity

Except MY ARMY BOOK is telling me it needs to be a successful cast before it can ever be a IF.

God..
/cyberpunch

Asmodai48
18-07-2010, 09:50
Nice my friend isnt gonna like this heh.

Foxbat
18-07-2010, 18:34
No tourney worth playing in would ever allow dickless or any other SC to begin with.Banning SCs is a carry over pre-7th edition mindset that is fast becoming outdated. More and more tourneys are allowing players to use their full Army Books to construct their lists. While army lists that include SCs are difficult to beat, they come with drawbacks that as a competitor you must learn to identify and exploit in order to win.

But hey Dungeon_Lawyer, if you’re not up to the challenge, step aside and let the big boys and girls take their seat at the table so you can watch and hopefully learn something.

Dungeon_Lawyer
19-07-2010, 02:09
Banning SCs is a carry over pre-7th edition mindset that is fast becoming outdated.
And you base this assertion after 1 week rotfl :rolleyes: ok


More and more tourneys are allowing players to use their full Army Books to construct their lists. While army lists that include SCs are difficult to beat, they come with drawbacks that as a competitor you must learn to identify and exploit in order to win.
ROTFL even more...And again you make this assertion after 1 week--cause their have been sooo many tounrney's played--- riiiiiiight. Army-lists that have SC's are almost always broken, played by WAAC dorks who need a crutch--(Teclis and Kairos Fateweaver are the best examples) And their rules invariably led to confusion and complicated rule interpretations..

You see how their are people on this thread who actually thought Teclis gets IF on any doubles? Not just on successful casting rolls? You dont want that argument popping up 5 times at a 5 game 60+ player tourney. Heck you cant even get it through your skull that FoM Slann dont pick their spells and thats a non-special character--I shudder to think about what you are getting wrong with the rules pertaining to your SC's

Magic is over-powered in 8th--SC's wont be making appearences at top-ranked tournies anytime soon-due to them making it even more over-powered, and thats just the magic-phase. Plenty of other SC break the game in other phases. Major tournies ban them for these reasons and will continue to do so.


But hey Dungeon_Lawyer, if you’re not up to the challenge, step aside and let the big boys and girls take their seat at the table so you can watch and hopefully learn something.
yeah OK ---Ill pull you up a Hi-Chair, or do you prefer a booster seat? Enjoy the 10 man SC beauty contest you play with your little friends at the local gaming store--But dont parade it on the internet as a "tourney":p We all know its not.

GirathonB
19-07-2010, 06:17
And you base this assertion after 1 week rotfl :rolleyes: ok

It's only been one week since 7th edition came out? I thought for sure we were on 8th already. Reading comprehension dude. Pre-7th. As in, the past 4 years of playing.

Sandals
19-07-2010, 09:54
Against spells you need to use the Loremaster’s Cloak or the Banner of World Dragon. My money is on the Banner of the World Dragon.

i played against Teclis the other day, and my opponant was lamenting about taking BotWD. He had Life on Teclis and therefore couldn't use it to buff himself or his own unit, and BotWD makes them immune to ALL magic. It's a nice idea, but not if you're going to combine it with Life

Foxbat
19-07-2010, 12:38
i played against Teclis the other day, and my opponant was lamenting about taking BotWD. He had Life on Teclis and therefore couldn't use it to buff himself or his own unit, and BotWD makes them immune to ALL magic. It's a nice idea, but not if you're going to combine it with LifeYes, this is one of the trade-offs one has to make when deciding between the Banner of the World Dragon and the Loremaster’s Cloak.

The Banner of the World Dragon gives the BSB and the unit he is with protection from all incoming spells (including those annoying scrolls) no matter the source at the cost of not being able to buff the unit. The Loremaster’s Cloak, on the other hand, while it will allow you to buff the unit it is protecting, it comes at the cost of not being 100% protected from all spell wounds, getting no protection against casualty spells (as these spells do not cause wounds, there is no protection) and getting no protection against Hex spells.

I prefer the Banner of World Dragon as it protects 100% of the time including another HE player’s attempt to use Vaul’s Unmaking on Teclis’ magic items.

L1qw1d
19-07-2010, 19:48
between D_L and FB, I think there are specific tourneys that make SC usable and others that don't- fluff oriented play, or a Linked Battle style tournament. I think flexibility and competence would be key, even if it seems easier initially. There's always a way to knock someone out.

Vsurma
20-07-2010, 10:29
I played 1 tournament and most of the SCs where allowed, the worst ones were not though.

Sandals
20-07-2010, 10:49
nothing against you Vsurma, but i'm not a fan of that sort of reasoning from tournaments. "these special characters are allowed as we think they are ok but these are not cos they're broken". either allow them all or none of them.

personally i'm in the allow none camp, and always have been. special characters are supposed to be just that - special. not included in nearly every version of a particular list. i remember one game of 7th where i faced Kurt Hellborg, Ludwig Schwartzheim AND Luthor Huss at 2K. that is absurd.
Now i'm not saying never use SCs, as i think some of them are quite nice ideas and add something to their book in terms of background or playing style. but i would only use on in a friendly game, and i would tell my opponant "I'm thinking of using X special character." I just think at a tournament they kinda overbalance things. I've played in both sorts and i prefer the ones where i know i'm not about to get my @$$ handed to my by teclis' magic, or beaten about the head by Thorek and his gunline.

just my $0.02

CmdrLaw
20-07-2010, 14:29
My opinion on SC's is that they are no where near as bad as they used to be.

But I reason on certain ones turning up for certain size of army...

Baiscally I justify a hero SC in my lists if they are 2000+ and lord SCs if the list is 4000+

But thats my own reasoning.

Foxbat
20-07-2010, 16:15
If I were running a tourney, I would allow SCs, but to address the concerns of the "no SC crew" I would institute an additional composition rule to limit SC points to no more than 20% of the total army points.

Skyros
20-07-2010, 17:03
Teclis is an extremely strong special character. One of the absolute best in 8th ed.

Letting him pick his lore after seeing the opponents army would be hilariously imbalanced and letting him get IF and automatic success on any doubles would be...pretty much beyond words.

Thankfully the rules make clear neither of these two is a possibility. Teclis remains an extremely strong, yet sane, choice.

Foxbat
20-07-2010, 20:29
Letting him pick his lore after seeing the opponents army would be hilariously imbalanced... Whether or not you like it, players fielding Teclis are permitted to choose a Lore for the model at deployment as this is how the model's rules read and how the BRB defines the start of the game. We will just have to wait and see if GW decides to alter his rules or not.


...and letting him get IF and automatic success on any doubles...While it is true that spells cast by Teclis are IF on a double other than 6's (double 6's follow the regular rules), it only counts provided:
(1) The summation of the PD + 4 is equal to or greater than the casting value of the spell: and
(2) The roll itself doesn't fall under the “Not Enough Power” rule.

Simondo
20-07-2010, 20:35
Whether or not you like it, players fielding Teclis are permitted to choose a Lore for the model at deployment as this is how the model's rules read and how the BRB defines the start of the game. We will just have to wait and see if GW decides to alter his rules or not.

While it is true that spells cast by Teclis are IF on a double, it only counts provided:
(1) The summation of the PD + 4 is equal to greater than the casting value of the spell: and
(2) The roll itself doesn't fall under the “Not Enough Power” rule.



Check again on your point one :p That's what makes teclis beastly good

Zaonite
22-07-2010, 15:32
to the OP; I went with lore of life. Throne of vines almost guarantees no miscasts even with double 6s. I just can't stress how good it is.

The majority of armies have S3 models; the Dwellers below just sweeps units aside.

The sheer awesome that is teclis. With all his extra dice too! My head is gonna asplode!

Bloody Nunchucks
22-07-2010, 17:34
i like to use teclis with metal and a lvl2 with life or teclis with life and a lvl2 with light

Peril
22-07-2010, 23:14
You know what I can't wait to do? Sit and dumbly remove an entire unit from the game from Teclis IF-ing a powered-up Purple Sun every turn. THAT my friends is what Warhammer Fantasy Battles is ALL about. That's why I spent hundreds of dollars buying miniatures, and months modelling and painting them. To watch my opponent roll a pile of dice and smirk while I put the models I just spent 15 minutes deploying away. Warhammer is dead. Long live Teclis-hammer.

puppetmaster24
22-07-2010, 23:33
Lore of life. for no real reason beyond the spell "The dwellers below".

YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE KINGDOM OF THE MOLES!!

92842

Bloody Nunchucks
23-07-2010, 03:32
if you are having a problem with teclis, just take the feedback scroll and wait for your opponent to roll 6 dice for dwellers below or purple sun. trust me i have lost teclis twice, once on the first tuen due to this. it may make your regular oppenent not use him anymore.

pkain762
23-07-2010, 04:21
i can't believe that some people are arguing that teclis can change his lore depending on the army he is playing. You can argue whatever you want, but the plain and simple fact is that if you play in a tourny (assuming the tourny even allows teclis) the people judging the tourny will never allow you to change your lore before each battle.

his rules were written in 7th, where you did select your spells prior to each battle. This isn't 7th.

basically it comes down to this..... don't be a douche

kain

jet_palero
23-07-2010, 05:21
i can't believe that some people are arguing that teclis can change his lore depending on the army he is playing. You can argue whatever you want, but the plain and simple fact is that if you play in a tourny (assuming the tourny even allows teclis) the people judging the tourny will never allow you to change your lore before each battle.

his rules were written in 7th, where you did select your spells prior to each battle. This isn't 7th.

basically it comes down to this..... don't be a douche

kain


High Loremaster: Teclis is the High Loremaster of Hoeth and many High Elves boast that he is the greatest living mage in the world.

Teclis is a level 4 Wizard and may choose any one of the eit lores of magic or high magic before the game starts. Whichever lore he chooses, he knows all six spells.

(Errated Section)“In addition, any spell cast by
Teclis will be cast with irresistible force on any successful
casting roll that is a double, however it will only be considered
a miscast if the roll includes a double 6.”.

I agree that he gets to pick them once he see's the opponent's army. Yes, this may be imbalanced, but I think thats what it says. If GW wanted this changed they would have errated out the section that describes it (and they may indeed do so at a later date). He's supposed to be the greatest wizard alive, after all.

Its not arguable that he can cast spells when he doesn't score enough power though. That part is plain. He also always fails on a double 1, since thats still always a failure.

He definitely seems like a nasty fellow to play against.

enyoss
23-07-2010, 07:36
If I were to field Teclis I think Lore of Life would be in order. Being able to heal himself every time he casts a spell successfully is a big help in keeping him alive.

As for the whole irresistable force/meeting the casting value debate. It's played exactly the same in 8th edition as it was in 7th: the irresistable force element only kicks in once he has already met the casting value. We sorted that out (with an FAQ for extra clarification iirc) back in 6th edition when the Book of Hoeth first appeared, so I don't see the point in thrashing it out again.

Seiri
10-09-2010, 00:51
Firstly, on the IF and choosing magic lore issues, i think people are forgetting that its been specified in the past that the specific race army books take priority over the general rulebook in the case of rule clashes.

As such, assuming FAQ's interpret high loremaster as saying that he can pick the lore before setup - he can do just that, doesnt matter what the main rulebook says.

Same with IF - although no FAQ interpretation needed here, he does NOT need to meet the basic casting value as long as he rolls ANY double - its always counted as IF.


On to lores...god i love beasts. No. 6 spell (i think....might have messed up numbers) letting a unit strike with their LD in place of STR? With the 'always strikes first' rule in general? HELL YES please. Down side is the lack of pure offence spells - bolt thrower spell is nice i guess but its not a unit mauler like purple sun etc.

Aside from beasts, i either use race specific or metal. Pretty much all u need in those 3.

Hashulaman
10-09-2010, 01:41
I agree, use Life. Elves are fragile buff the Hell out of them. Thronw of Vines plus Flesh to stone = T7 Elves. Followed by regrowth to bring back any modles that did die. Then there is The dwellers below, lovely thing to use on Darkelves, skaven empire, bretonnia some beastment and orcs. I dont think undead are worth casting it on since they are so cheap and can be brought back.

Seiri
10-09-2010, 01:45
Sorry for the continuation...life just doesnt hold any attraction for me - im an aggressive person by nature, so a purely defensive lore is sorta an anathma :D.

Gonna have a play with death tomorrow n see how it goes.

Hashulaman
10-09-2010, 01:48
My friend loves using shadow for Teclis to put Mindrazor on Swordmasters, Meh I like Lore of Life more, it seems more fluff friendly to elves.

Seiri
10-09-2010, 02:00
In verson 7 i was a huge fan of shadow for my dark elves - mass movement spells with some ok offense, rocked a few tourneys with 'high speed' darks.

Beasts just is sooo damn tasty for teclis for the remains in play spells - No. 6 is like a 20+ to cast at full power, so teclis's IF's are useful - and leave ur opponent a 20+ roll to dispel it if he/she doesnt wanna charge a pleb unit that would pimpslap their hardest unit before they get to cut down attacks.

Hashulaman
10-09-2010, 02:09
Yea, while having teclis turn into a dragon he can't cast anymore. I think his casting power outweighs turning into a Dragon.

Seiri
10-09-2010, 02:11
Ugh, i've messed up spell numbers ha. I didnt mean the transformation spell, i meant the one that lets a unit use its LD as its STR

Hashulaman
10-09-2010, 02:14
You mean mindrazor from shadow. That's pretty good, Id rather use shadow for Miasma/Pit combo if I take Shadow. Watch my opponent pull his hair out.

Seiri
10-09-2010, 02:17
Ha thanks, this is what i get for working off memory alone. Need to get my rulebook before i start on about specific spells next time. Apologies to all for my error.

Will check back after having another look at the spells.

Hashulaman
10-09-2010, 02:40
High Magic seems to have been kciked to the curb in favor of the flashy new lores. It is still useful and cheaper than the BRB lores. Flmaes of the Phoenix got a huge boost, as did Drain magic, though the impact of Drain Magic is debatable given you can throw 6 dice at a spell and add +4 to a spell.

Tomás Turbado
10-09-2010, 05:03
I´m a Teclis player and I´m completely sure of the two following points:

1.- According to the last FAQ Teclis needs to successfully cast a spell and
roll a double to get an IF (the sole exception is double 6 that follows
is a normal IF but their negative effects are ignored...)

2.- According to the last FAQ and taking into account that there are at least
three clarifications on Teclis in it, there is no "legal" base to deny the
option of choosing the lore before the game starts. You can discuss the
concept, but at least in the Spanish version the term used is "partida" and
tournaments have several "partidas". Although I think the argument is pretty
solid, at least in Spanish, I understand that with an intense exercise of rule
manipulation another conclusion could be attained. But in that case those that
defend this theory are the ones twisting the rules. One may agree or not with
the rules, but this is crystal clear. Maybe most of the people that accept the
complicated interpretation do so because it suits them or because they think
that it is an unfair advantage, but not because they really think that this is
the true rule. (By the way, I always take the same because I have more fun
this way, but the moment a player tries to force me to do so I change to the
one that suits me the most.)

Playing by the rules does not imply a lack sportsmanship. Changing them or putting
pressure on players to change them is a lot closer to that behaviour.

In 7th ed HE were clearly second to DoC, DE and VC. I played against them knowing
that me chances were scarce. And I although I friendly whined, I never tried to impose
them anything.

tiekwando
10-09-2010, 06:25
There are 3 big choices in my mind, Life, Shadow and Death

Life- Dwellors to knock a unit off at a time, most armies have something that is s3. Enough dice to throw some at vines, flesh and maybe even regrowth. Compliments our weakness, but unfortunately can only really target one unit with our big buff which makes hordes better, but also makes us more susceptible to things like dwellors... interesting. Oh and we cannot use BoWD which is a nice way to safe teclis from things like dwellors, death magic.

Shadow- Mindrazor makes us OMG crazy. Pit+miasma can be used against every unit reasonably effectively. withering can reduce t making our shooting much, much more effective. With an average of 11 dice you can cast Mindrazor, Pit and Miasma or Withering almost everytime. That means you can kill 1 unit from magic, 1 unit in combat, and make one unit much more weak.

Death- Purple sun for fun and lots more dispel dice. LD 10 makes for good spirit leaches, fate kills enemy leaders. With all that extra power dice cast a bubble soul blight! Really this lore is much better against war machine heavy armies/ armies that rely on their general or low I armies. VC, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Dwarves, Orcs, possibly Empire and maybe HE just to kill teclis. Works against a few Skaven units though not sun.

N810
02-11-2011, 18:29
"whichever lore he chooses he knows all six spells"
Sorry you can only choose lore that have six spells,
Eighth edition lores have 7 spells.
So you can only use high magic. :p

Malorian
02-11-2011, 18:31
"whichever lore he chooses he knows all six spells"
Sorry you can only choose lore that have six spells,
Eighth edition lores have 7 spells.
So you can only use high magic. :p

Ha! That would be awesome! :D

a18no
02-11-2011, 19:41
"whichever lore he chooses he knows all six spells"
Sorry you can only choose lore that have six spells,
Eighth edition lores have 7 spells.
So you can only use high magic. :p

That, or he don't know the signature spells... or must swap 1 of the sixth for the signature

Tanglewood
02-11-2011, 23:51
The rule is quite clear and simple re High Loremaster - you choose spells during army selection like everybody else.

Pg. 134
"...you do need to make a note in your army roster of which spell lore each of your Wizards will use"

....and before the fanbois jumped in to quip about how their Teclis-crutch over ride this rule due to Army Book > BRB, please read the excerpt "Older Books" on the top left corner of the page

"..some Warhammer Armies books contain a different army selection system from the one presented here. However, and in a one-off contradiction to the principle stated under Basic Rules and Advanced rules, the system included here replaces and takes precedence over whatever system is printed in your Warhammer Armies book"

cabowers
03-11-2011, 10:31
Ok just to chime in with a couple of things

1 - Teclis can and does choose his law before/during the deployment phase. That is the way it was played at the Throne of Skulls in October without any problems. ( I should know a friend of mine was running him)

2 - If Teclis rolls a double then he still has to meet the casting value for it to be cast with irresstible force. Unless this is a double 6. If he doesn't meet the casting value then it isn't cast and his concentration is also broken and is unable to cast any further spells.