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Formosa
13-07-2010, 13:29
hi guys, im playing high elves this thursday and my opponent is taking Teclis, all i know of his list is he is putting Teclis in a 20 man p guard unit, and intends to spam purple sun at me, any help with lists/tactics would be welcome

Maarten K
13-07-2010, 13:46
How many points are you playing?

- the speleating rune, a couple of spellbreaking runes, the banner of valaya are good choices, magic resistance on your units will work to protect against wounds. Other than that get into combat asap, once in combat teclis is dead. To get there rangers and an anvil will work wonders,

tiekwando
13-07-2010, 14:05
This is all coming from a HE perspective. Magic Resistance is actually probably more useful now against teclis than before. If he is just going to cast purple sun he will probably just throw 6 dice at it to make it IF.

Of course I am not sure if you get ward saves from purple sun, so check your BRB.

If you can charge that PG block with... well anything then you can kill teclis and make your life so much easier (just make sure to allocate enough attacks!)

Malorian
13-07-2010, 14:08
Anvil + miner block + rear/flank.

Or...

Master rune of challenge and just cut him down in combat.

TheSaxon
13-07-2010, 14:09
If all he takes is the one caster, you may be in ok shape if you bring a runelord, or at least a runesmith.

with a runelord and anvil, dwarf players can get a +7 to dispel. even without the anvil you're looking at +6, so that's not bad.

a good strategy to minimize what teclis can do is simply do whatever it takes to dispel his first spell. then you've broken his concentration and he can't cast again that magic phase. this will be considerably easier because of the dwarves' natural magic resistance.

EDIT: it was just brought to my attention that this may not be how breaking concentration works, double check on that.

themothersuperior
13-07-2010, 15:21
I've only been playin warhammer for a few months but here's my opinion:

Big unit of rangers with thane/lord with master rune of challenge, deploy right in his face and challenge, maybe some throwing axes to deal some extra damage.

Give him the first turn if u get to decide......he'll have to deal with the challenge straight away.

If he gets to decide the first turn, he'll probably choose himself in an effort to deal with the rangers then u challenge.

He may of course decide to flee when u challenge, thus not being able to cast and running the risk of hitting the table edge.

You should include a unit of miners or two, in conjuction with the anvil will mean that your army is on top of his very quickly and thus making it more likely for the purple sun to fall on his own troops, although his I is high.

Finally, 2 gyrocopters as reinforcements....str3 steam is not a friend of Teclis

Of course, u could try and weather his magic with magic resistance but meh, he wont be expecting this and its more fun.

Zinch
13-07-2010, 16:19
Teclis is a big piece of &$%&% in this eddition. It IF any spell with any double, so rolling 6 dices it's almost guaranteed he will get one. So magic defense is useless against this strategy (nonetheless take it against any spell he tries to cast with less than 6 dices)

Purple sun doesn't alow any kind of saving throw, so magic resistance is pointless here.

BUT, purple sun have a "short" range (artillery dice x 3 + the template). If he rolls a 2 or 4 it's not going to put you on trouble, so it's not all lost.

Fisrt advise is to deploy your units with a little space between so a large template doesn't touch a large portion of 2 units. Also, don't put any unit behhind any other. As Teclis is on food (and a very expensive weak character) he won't be throwing the spell from one of your flanks (the real fearsome posibility of this spell), if he tries this, just charge its unit and punish a so greedy opponent.

Try all the tactics that people have said (with rangers and miners), but also remember that elves are expensive weak troops. Shot all your weapons at the Teclis unit, with the new TLOS rules, it won't last for long (if you hit Teclis with a 3 WM, there's a 50% chance of him failing his LOS roll, wich is not bad for such a expensive character). All depends on your army composition (stone throwers are realy good against elves, so I'd take at least 2...)

EDIT: I didn't read the phoenix guard thing... Then maybo shoting at them is too slow, and it's better to get a charge (Rochallenge is so good now I will take it anyway)

lcfr
13-07-2010, 22:03
Magic Resistance is probably a better bet than scroll-runes or bonus-to-dispel runes...I say this because, after facing Teclis myself last weekend, this guy will be casting nearly everything w/IF anyways.

Fortunately for you you're playing Dwarfs, so will have a combination of sturdy infantry and some warmachines...Teclis can't neutralize everything in the first turn...

I have to disagree w/the poster who recommends giving Teclis Turn1...if you have a choice, take first turn for yourself and fire everything at his unit, and then MRChallenge him on his own turn if he's still alive. An AoD can help you get a unit w/in threatening distance early as well.

It's unfortunate that you have to face Teclis...I've never enjoyed a game against him (particularly in 8th), and I've always wondered how some HE players could field him and still say they're having a rewarding game.

Formosa
13-07-2010, 23:24
righto this is what i was going to take

lord
great weapon, oath stone.
runes:snorri spangelhelm(+1 to hit)
Rune of fury, master rune of kragg the grim, master rune of challenge, rune of stone,rune of iron

Thane
battle standard
master rune of grungi, rune of santuary, rune of slowness

rune smith
great weapon
rune of ballance, rune of spealbreaking

rune smith
spelleater rune, rune of spellbreaking

40 drarf warriors
full command, shields

40 longbeards
full command, great weapons, rune of battle, rune of santuary

20 crossbow rangers
full command, great wepons

20 handgunners
full command, shields

cannon, rune of forging
cannon, rune of forging, rune of fire
cannon, rune of forging, rune of reload
grudge thrower, rune of accuracy. 2 rune of penetrating
Organ gun

on average with this setup i have been able to kill 20-30 T3 enemies a turn, also the cannons are for the lucky snipe situation if they faill LoS rolls.

3000 points

feel free to pick this list appart.

Formosa
14-07-2010, 08:25
anyone out there?

Stronginthearm
15-07-2010, 06:50
for 3000 definitey feels like too like magic resistance/dispel, drop the squads to 30 and bring up miners or an anvil, it just gives you more mobility and lets you take the fight to him

mr.kislev
15-07-2010, 07:07
master RO balance and master RO spell binding on 2 rune smiths then bsb with master rune of valaya. This will help stop alot of the magic

Stronginthearm
15-07-2010, 07:36
if hes just bringing teclis(and he probably doesnt need much else if hes got teclis) hes gonna get irressistable far more often, therefore be harder to stop, I'd go with just trying to take him out as soon a possible and just weathering the storm

Dokushin
15-07-2010, 08:00
You're not going to stop Teclis' magic. The whole idea behind bringing him is getting IF. So don't sweat the scrolls or whatever; bring at most one spelleater rune and just throw your dispel dice at the first thing you even have the opportunity to dispel.

Now, with all the points you just saved not bringing otherwise useless runelords/smiths, instead bring yourself some nice, tooled-up warmachines. Proceed to template/penetrate the (bleep) out of Teclis' unit. If you're lucky he'll fail some LO,S saves and die. If you're not lucky, you'll have to kill the rest of them -- but we're talking about T3 elves with crap armor saves, here. Worst case is Phoenix Guard with a 4+ ward, which is annoying, sure, but you can still bomb the heck out of it. Oh, get a Gyrocopter over there, too.

While you're shooting it to death, if you can get so much as one unit in combat with Teclis' unit, it's ballgame. You'll destroy him -- allocate as much as you can against him to be sure. You should be steadfast if you've been shooting it, and if not you'll probably win combat anyway, but the important part is taking Telcis out -- it's easily worth the lives of a unit, maybe two, to get him out of play.

Once you're past that, you shouldn't have much trouble. Teclis is a pretty big investment and he probably won't have taken much else in the way of casters or lords, meaning no big scary dragons; just throw stones and bolts and cannonballs at the rest of his army while your T4 heavy-armor roughnecks roll over and grind down the rest of his stuff.

To reiterate. Shoot the heck out of Teclis' unit (preferably with templates) while you march at it. Get into combat and do everything you can to kill Teclis. Don't challenge. Once you have him engaged just shoot everything else while you kill him; then push everything else off the board.

Formosa
15-07-2010, 10:19
my revised list:
lord, great weapon
runes: rune of brotherhood, master rune of challenge
grudge rune, master rune of cragg the grim, run e of fury, rune of iron rune of stone
this is my anti teclis lord

thane, BS
strollaz rune, master rune of valaya

runesmith, great weopon
rune of ballance rune of spellbreaking

master engineer, great weapon
20 warriors full command/shields
20 warriors full command/shields

40 longbeard rangers, throwing axes, full command, rune of dertermination
right the lord is going to sit in this unit, the strollaz rune will help them move forward into charge range of techlis's unit and force a charge or flee, i will challenge techlis and with the grudge rune he will go splat

how this works is, i deploy 15" away from him (i think that is how scout works, i dont know the new rule)
strollaz make me go foward 6", puttine him around 9-10" away, with elves movement of 5, he will be in charge range and be forced to charge me or flee, either way he is a non problem for a turn, which allows me to charge one of his other units, but! plans dont usually last long in real life so i will see how it goes.

20 qaurellersfull command, shields

10 thunderers1
0thunderers

cannon, rune of forging
cannon, rune of fire/ ruen of forging
cannon, rune of reload rune of forging

grudge thrower, 2 rune of penetration, rune of accuracy
grudge thrower, rune of penetration and rune of accuracy

i tested this list earlier and the cannons/grudge throwers took out a 40 strong unit of goblins in 1 turn (lucky i know), if they perform half as well tonight i will be happy

Zinch
15-07-2010, 15:12
Yes, it's easy to make plans against Teclis when you know your opponent will bring him... ;)

The scout rule now allows you to deploy at 12" or more of the enemy (not 15") and if your opponent is planning on casting the Purple Sun it won't deploy behind any other unit (one thing he should do when he sees your 40 ranger unit) and of he does, your plan is working: you have neutered teclis at least for a turn and you always can use the rune on that unit if its small, then between the pursue movement and your charging movement, you should reach teclis on your second turn (first turn if elves move first!!).

The good part is that now the magic lore is chosen when you make your list, not before the first turn (ask him before him knowing you have the longbeards...)

One more thing. You don't need your lord to go behind teclis... is so f%/$& weak in combat that a thane with the rune of grudges is enough (and if not, the other 5 dwarfs touching him can attack him also)

Formosa
18-07-2010, 01:30
well i played the game tabled him by turn 5, that will teach him not to rely on techlis and bragg about him all week till our game, btw rune of challenged him he elected to charge tried to cast +3 toughness on the unit (seperate mage) rolled a total of 4 for his power dice, i took 1 and had 2 more for a total of 5 vs his 3.. bye bye techlis in combat.. toughness 2!!!

Dokushin
18-07-2010, 03:39
well i played the game tabled him by turn 5, that will teach him not to rely on techlis and bragg about him all week till our game, btw rune of challenged him he elected to charge tried to cast +3 toughness on the unit (seperate mage) rolled a total of 4 for his power dice, i took 1 and had 2 more for a total of 5 vs his 3.. bye bye techlis in combat.. toughness 2!!!

Congratulations :). Teclis is one of the most dangerous single models in the game to face; blowing him clear off the table is good stuff.

Zinch
18-07-2010, 17:54
Congratulations :). Teclis is one of the most dangerous single models in the game to face; blowing him clear off the table is good stuff.

Yes, but as Formosa said, is a big risk if your opponent knows of him before the battle. R2 ftl on close combat or against some spells.

On a related note, I just noticed that the wording on Teclis special ability reads: "on any succefull roll of a double..." So he has to reach the spell value to make the spell IF (unless a double 6, of course)

Formosa
18-07-2010, 21:02
yep that is the way the local GW does it, if cast value is hit AND any double is rolled then IR or double 6