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morespam
14-07-2010, 10:54
Hi all,

I posted this over at DakkaDakka as well, and I thought I might get some more opinions on this as well.

I have heard everyone say that you can pre-measure everything in 8th ed, from Gamesworkshop employees, to people pod casting reviews of the book, etc.

The other day I got my copy of the book and read the rules for "Measuring Distances" on P.6 and from what I can tell it seems that pre-measuring is only done "...before you declare an action, such as charging or shooting".

It seems to me that you can measure anything you want to do but only before you need to do it (ie: you can measure 10" movement in your movement phase, but you cant measure 10" movement and then 12" range for your weapon in your movement phase to make sure your 10" will get you in range with your missile weapon) and also you cant just wilily nilly measure stuff on the board as you wish (enemy units shooting range from your units, enemy units charge ranges, etc)

Is my interpretation correct? have I just been listening to people that are being a little over zealous with the whole pre-measure thing? How do you all play it?

Thanks.

Falkman
14-07-2010, 11:23
Your interpretation is correct, though many of us believe the intent was just to allow pre-measuring at any time.

morespam
14-07-2010, 11:36
Thanks for the response.

Our group as played with both methods (can pre-measure and check everything, and also completely by the rules where we could only pre-measure things we wanted to do at the time of doing them) both games where very different in feel.

If most people play by the "measure anything anytime" interpretation what do you think of things like:

1) Let say you have a unit of pistoleers, you can measure their 16" move then from that point measure their 12" pistol range to see if you can hit your oponents warmachine if you moved your full 16" in the movement phase before you have decided to move them.

2) Doing things like measuring two turns ahead to work out where your unit of knights can end up.

3) Measuring all the enemies range units so you can keep your unit of scouts out of all their ranges while you are moving them.

Thanks.

Falkman
14-07-2010, 11:41
1 and 3 seems totally fine for me, 2 isn't illegal either but it would just be so time consuming that I would probably give my opponent some nasty glares if he did that.

Lord Solar Plexus
14-07-2010, 11:50
I agree with your interpretation, morespam. I think many people just say "everything" as a kind of shorthand or to emphasize the difference to 7th.

Ultimate Life Form
14-07-2010, 12:09
I wonder why you would want to measure across the entire table all the time though, unless you're a carpenter.

Lhel
14-07-2010, 12:16
I agree with your interpretation, morespam. I think many people just say "everything" as a kind of shorthand or to emphasize the difference to 7th.
There is quite likely a lot of truth in this statement.

Forumdwellers have never really been known for writing more than they really need if they can in some conceivable way avoid it :p

the Goat
14-07-2010, 13:02
No I think you truly can measure anything on the board at any time. So if you want to place your spearmen 13 inches in front of his archers you can measure that during your movement phase and place them at exactly 13 inches. That just seems to agree with the spirit of the new edition. But I admit it is totally weird to a 20+ year veteran player such as myself.

morespam
14-07-2010, 13:15
Its not only the forums.

A few podcasts talk about games they have played and they discuss how they are measuring thing (ie: not just intended actions).

Also my brother and best friend (used to go to school together) both work at Gamesworkshop so my friend circle includes a bunch of GW people (one is even the head of sales for GW in our country), we routinely meet up to play boardgames, videogames, and other nerdy pursuits and lately we have been talking about the 8th ed rules and they have been telling me the same thing (measure everything anytime).

hehe I don't know, it sounds like it was a rumor that started about 8th ed and everyone has just taken it to be true via word of mouth and not actually read the rule.

What do other people think of this? and how do you play it.

morespam
14-07-2010, 13:21
@The Goat, yeh I know what you mean it felt so unnatural doing it when I first played.

Lord Solar Plexus
14-07-2010, 13:37
No I think you truly can measure anything on the board at any time.


I'm afraid the rule disagrees with you. ;)



So if you want to place your spearmen 13 inches in front of his archers you can measure that during your movement phase and place them at exactly 13 inches.


In this case you can of course measure the distance - you're taking an action.

explorator
14-07-2010, 13:51
What is the solution if you think your opponent is abusing the deployment rules and placing his units closer to yours than the scenario allows?

Seems like this strict of an interpretation would prevent checking very basic distances.

Lord Solar Plexus
14-07-2010, 14:00
How did you solve that last edition where you were not allowed to pre-measure at all?

Falkman
14-07-2010, 14:07
It can't be abused, since all missions clearly state how far from the middle of the table you are allowed to deploy.
Just measure where the middle is, and then measure from there, no need to measure to your enemy's troops (except when deploying scouts, in which case you have to measure to your enemy).

explorator
14-07-2010, 15:35
How did you solve that last edition where you were not allowed to pre-measure at all?

To be honest, at our shop we pre-measured. :) Many players even put a row of dice across the board to mark the line.

If you are not allowed to pre-measure, how do you even know where to deploy?

Actually the rule states "You can always check the distance before you declare an action, such as charging or shooting" The OP said that pre-measuring was only done in such cases, which is misleading.

I take this to mean I can pre-measure anytime from deployment on. Pre-measuring is always done "before you declare an action" by definition. The rule does not indicate when you may measure, except to say it is "before". Pre-measuring is always "before".

morespam
14-07-2010, 16:06
If you are not allowed to pre-measure, how do you even know where to deploy?

Actually the rule states "You can always check the distance before you declare an action, such as charging or shooting" The OP said that pre-measuring was only done in such cases, which is misleading.

I am not saying you cant pre-measure, nor am I saying you can only pre-measure while shooting or charging, all I am saying is that the sentence under "Measuring Distances" seems to imply that you can measure the distance that is related to an action you are performing where as most people I have talked to are saying that you can measure any distances at any time (which that sentences doesn't seem to say, and if it does its not very clear).

Kalandros
14-07-2010, 17:26
I declare that I'm measuring, there I've declared before taking an action.

solkan
15-07-2010, 16:00
Let's say that it's the start of the movement phase and you're trying to decide which charges to declare. Since you have permission to check the distance before declaring actions, you have permission to check the distance between all of your units and all of the enemy units to determine which ones are in charge range.

And then you get to the non-charge movements, and the questions "Which of my units are being march blocked (or whatever it's called in 8th edition)?" and "Can these units get to that arbitrary landmark over there?" and now you have even more things that you can measure to check.

Repeat for the shooting phase and the magic phase, except that in the magic phase now you're also able to start checking the distances between spell casters and friendly units if you have any friendly buff spells at all.

So, yeah, that's not quite "You can pre-measure everything" but it's close enough for most people.