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mstrfshdws
14-07-2010, 16:33
Last night, I tried to teach a 40k buddy of mine how to play WFB. Since this is my 4th WFB game, I'm afraid it was a case of the blind leading the blind.

That said, we had both heard that Steam Tanks were outrageously awesome, and I feared them based on this, having not read the Empire book ever.

So we deployed in the battle line scenario, set up our terrain (7 pieces on a 6x4 table was like fighting in Mordheim). I set up a refused left flank and my Ogres launched into his right side. At this point, he began using his Steam tanks which killed:

2 Gorgers (after they had obliterated two detachments of state troops)
2 Bulls
1 Iron gut

This was just enough to pay the cost of one steam tank.

Is there something we're missing? A range 18" cannon seems like no cannon at all and a steam cannon is like a warm shower to Ogres.

Why are these tanks so ridiculous?

Darktan
14-07-2010, 16:39
perhaps because it's obscenely hard to kill them, you need to take off all 10 wounds in order to get any victory points for them, 10 T10 1+AS wounds, while not impossible, are not the easiest thing to kill

Jericho
14-07-2010, 17:01
For armies who rely on war machines/magic to kill big gribblies the Steam Tank is a huge challenge. 6's to wound even with a bolt thrower. 5+ with a stone thrower if even if you get a direct hit. If it scatters you get 6's to wound and it gets the full 1+ save. 4+ to wound or else a cannonball bounces. Immune to most magic that could actually threaten or weaken it.

There were a lot of people who had a hard time dealing with a Stank when it was what T6 before? T10 takes a lot of the reliable ways to kill it and seriously reduces their effectiveness.

Sebavin
14-07-2010, 17:05
Umm how about 6 d3 S6 impact hits? on the "charge" at least. That hurts allot of things and not only that it doesn't die so easy as stated above.

Hydex
14-07-2010, 17:24
Hmm you almost never generate 5 points (or you have never been hit by a 6 at a crucial time) so it's 5d3 on charge. That's 10 hits average, okay it's good but remember that even one or two wounds will hurt its attack power a lot.

I see him more as a point holder, but he's not as killy as some people see it.

em_en_oh_pee
15-07-2010, 04:41
Hmm you almost never generate 5 points (or you have never be hit by a 6 at a crucial time) so it's 5d3 on charge. That's 10 hits average, okay it's good but if remember than even one or two wounds will hurt its attack power a lot.

I see him more as a point holder, but he's not as killy as some people see it.

It isn't too much that it is overly killy, but just so damned hard to kill. That it can do some decent hits is nice, while being nigh invulnerable is the real boon. Also, as stated, at 3K, I am keeping you from 600VP if you don't kill them both. In addition to that, solo or in a pair, they draw a LOT of firepower. The psychological effects of them are a seriously powerful aspect against players with few answers or just little experiences against them.

Oberon
15-07-2010, 04:48
Taking a tank or two basically means that you can inflict quite a few s6 autohits on the enemy, hold him in place and not lose a single VP in the process. In short: you win.

em_en_oh_pee
15-07-2010, 04:54
In addition to that, Oberon, support them properly and you can swing your Staties into the Flanks. :D

omnivision6
15-07-2010, 04:56
perhaps because it's obscenely hard to kill them, you need to take off all 10 wounds in order to get any victory points for them, 10 T10 1+AS wounds, while not impossible, are not the easiest thing to kill

killed one with my ogres today. was epic. 6 man iron gut unit FTW!!!!

PurchasedPig
15-07-2010, 08:32
It's more due to the damage they wreak in combat than their shooting potential. I once killed an entire ogre army (in 7th edition) with one Steam Tank and left the rest of the army back to see if it could be done. It only took 2 Wounds and killed 2000pts by charging, wiping out and Panicking surrounding units.

Admittedly the above example did rely on bad dice rolls on the Ogre player part but I only rolled averagely well myself and it was just brutal. In 8th this would be pretty impossible to achieve but it doesn't change the fact that it can just munch units.

-PurchasedPig-

Artinam
15-07-2010, 08:41
My Bretonnians only have two serious ways of harming the thing, a direct hit with a Trebuchet or a pimped out Lord/Hero with the Virtue of Heroism (which now works with magic weapon! and Killing Blow anything)

theorox
15-07-2010, 08:55
Does killing blow work against it? No? Orcs and goblins have a very funny way of dealing with it. Suicide gobbos are cool! Also, Empire can do something like this:

General
Horse
Obsidian blade
potion of strength
Sumtin' else?

BOOM! If you take down 2 wounds, and it does'nt kill it, then maybe do another wound...you could beat it. Pound it with some Lore of Metals spells first...oh wait, it's immune to that is'nt it? :(

Theo

Hydex
15-07-2010, 09:03
Does killing blow work against it? No?


Heroic KB (which Brets can have) works, pretty funny to destroy a tank with one blow.

Skyros
15-07-2010, 14:25
Is there something we're missing? A range 18" cannon seems like no cannon at all and a steam cannon is like a warm shower to Ogres.

Why are these tanks so ridiculous?

They aren't. If they still had their old 7th edition toughness they would never be worth taking. Their offensive power is far from impressive. The cannon is there to trick you into wasting steam points and blowing up your own tank. The steamgun is actually useful against certain enemies, but ogres isn't one of them.

The steamtank is primarily a tarpit, because the defining feature of the steamtank now is that it is hard to kill.

In 7th it was a one hit wonder for massacring blocks of troops and breaking a line with massed terror/panic checks, but enough has changed that that no longer applies.

As long as you approach the tank with the stand point you just need to deal it a few wounds to neutralize it, you're fine. Trying to chop through the 10 wounds to kill it takes inordinately long and isn't worth it.

I don't think the steamtank is designed very well. It should have only 5 wounds with the 10T and just get 4 SP a turn flat. Then it could actually be killed in a reasonable amount of time.

Lord Solar Plexus
15-07-2010, 14:51
A Steam Tank is nice - painted well, in the glass cabinet. It's ridiculously easy to kill now that it is affected by every spell. Just make it take an Ini test.

Oberon
15-07-2010, 14:53
If only it was affected by any spells at all that were useful. Only spells with str value, so chain lightning/thunderbolt/bolt thrower from lore of beasts, or the powered up version of burning gaze...

Lord Solar Plexus
15-07-2010, 15:06
It is affected by all spells - except Pit of Shades, ironically - according to the latest version of the German FAQ as it says to ignore the paragraph on magic.

Oberon
15-07-2010, 16:06
Really? AWESOME!

Cambion Daystar
15-07-2010, 18:37
Really? AWESOME!
Not so awesome, as it is now only usefull as a paperweight.

Oberon
15-07-2010, 18:42
Considering I have to play regularly against 2 of those backed up by a war altar and some knights&cannons, I sure as hell think it's awesome.

RanaldLoec
15-07-2010, 19:33
Yeah I've been playing empire for 18 years and I cheer now as I'm fed up of seeing dual steam tank lists.

Finally I might see a few more balanced infantry , knights and artillery.

I do own a stank but only for big 4k or over games

em_en_oh_pee
16-07-2010, 05:41
I am still running my pair, because I love the models. I don't think they are as good, but with a good amount of protection in the form of an AL and a few WPs, combined with the Rod, all but IF spells will get through, ideally. If they are putting that much focus on the STank, then I can get in with other stuff.