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Time of Madness
14-07-2010, 19:07
My 2000pt High Elf for the 8th edition.

CHARACTERS

Archmage
- Level 4
- Book of Ashur (+1 to cast and dispel)
- Guardian Phoenix (5+ Ward save)
= 355pts

Noble (BSB)
- Great Weapon
- Armour of Caledor (2+ save)
- Dawnstone (Re-rolls missed armour saves)
= 168pts

CORE

25 Spearmen
***BSB Here***
- Full Command
- Warbanner (+1 Combat res)
= 270pts

10 Archers
- Musician
= 115pts

10 Archers
- Musician
= 115pts

SPECIAL

18 Sword Masters
- Full Command
- Banner of Sorcery (1-3 extra power dice)
= 350pts

18 Sword Masters
- Full Command
- Banner of Arcane Protection (2 MR = 5+ ward save vs magic)
= 325pts

RARE

2 Bolt Throwers
= 200pts

2 Eagles
= 100pts

TOTAL POINTS = 1998pts

Lords - 18%
Heros - 8%
Core - 25% (500pts exactly - bare minimum)
Special - 34%
Rare - 15%

The book of ashur is pretty impressive on a high elf level 4 archmage. Add to that the extra dice I get from the banner of sorcery and the ability to take some of the nice new magic lores :) I have +5 to cast and +6 to dispel.

The spearmen will form the centre of my army supported on each flank by the nasty swordmasters. I plan on running the spear elves 5X5 and the swordmasters 6X3.

Anyone like the list? Changes?

Time of Madness

Liancour
14-07-2010, 19:13
This list seems very vulnerable to war machine and especially stone throwers. You have nothing to take care of distant units. No scout, no quick unit.

I think you should at least take one Phoenix Guard instead of one of your swordmasters unit.

HeroFox
14-07-2010, 19:15
Yeah man.. Stone Throwers will make this list cry.. a lot. Unless you plan on taking Lore of Light for Pha's Illumination.

You probably also want another 25x Spearmen unit if that's the case. 2 units of 25 with FC is 500 points exactly :)

thesheriff
14-07-2010, 19:32
You could counter this by taking lore of life and the seerstaff on your lv.4. If you get throne of vines off, and combine it with Flesh to stone, you can make your swordsmasters T7. And, with re-growth and the lore of life atrubute, you can re-place wounds very easily.
And, you could cast regen on them too, if you are really struggling. If you do this, you might want to combine the units into one unit of 30, and use the left over points for some more spearmen

HeroFox
14-07-2010, 23:24
If you get throne of vines off, and combine it with Flesh to stone, you can make your swordsmasters T7

True, but this is a two step process.

The smarter players will prevent Throne of Vines first because then the rest of the lore is not as bad to face.

Allonairre
15-07-2010, 02:11
Against a stone Thrower T5 and T7 are almost the same so no big deal there.

You could give the Archmage the 5pt talisman for a 6+ ward against warmachine fire for him and his unit. I am pretty tempted by the 25pt bound fireball for a Swordmaster champion as well.

The Archers and Eagles can put a bit of pressure on warmachines, 5 hits and 1 wound most turns from each unit of archers.

You need to decide on a lore for your archmage, this is kind of Crucial now and will impact on the effectiveness of your other phases, Shadow Magic can make your shooting phase devastating, but Life will keep you round longer, and death will murder enemy characters. I don't know the answer there but you need to decide what you want to do.

Finally don't be afraid to put your swordmasters in retarded formations, against a horde, 12 wide is best albeit ridiculous, you either go narrow with 5 (minimise their attacks) or maximise your attacks, I think you gain very little from being 6 or 7 wide.
For 18 I think that I would go 12,6 (30 attacks) or 9x2 (27 attacks) if there were hordes on the table, this also offers some protection from templates but its harder to get soft cover for being concealed.

Time of Madness
15-07-2010, 02:21
Thanks for the comments gents,

I think everyone is assuming every opponent is going to have multiple stone throwers. The stone throwers are good, however they can be easily countered with archers/magic/eagles/bolt throwers. On top of that most armies are not going to have more then 2 of the things.

I'm not going to change my entire list just because of stone throwers. Most infantry based T3 armies (especially elves) are going to suffer against war machines, it is just part of playing the army.

As far as a magic lore goes I've look at actually taking High Magic or light. High Magic is really decent when you consider the casting values go way down because of my +5 to cast. I'm going to try multiple different lores and see what one I like the best.
Time of MAdness

Liancour
15-07-2010, 15:06
The idea is not to change you're entire list, of course, but to take maybe one or two quick unit that can control some kind of threat (a great eagle, some shadow warrior, or even a small amount of Ellyrian reaver.)

Now that crew uses machines toughness and that most war machines can fire with only one crew, to get rid of them is pretty much complicated than shooting a bolt volley on it. And on swordmasters and sea guard, boosted stone throwers (dwarf, Hellcanon, etc...) are dreadfull.

Avatar of the Eldar
15-07-2010, 20:01
I think this list has it covered about as well as you can. I'd put the 45 pt 4+ wardsave on the archmage as an insurance policy. Also, giving him the Fireball Ring is additional offensive threat with built-in Miscast protection. I forget what the Book of Ashur costs, but the items above allow for a dispell scroll.

My 2250 and 2500 lists are like this but with Seaguard instead of spears and a LvL 2 mage at 2500.

Right now, I'm a proponent of Lore of Life. Mostly for the toughness and healing buffs, which I think is the priority for our oh so fragile army.

My T7/T4 Seaguard held up a large block of Chosen warriors for 3 turns before my magic luck ran out and they got the beat down. In the mean time the White Lions and Swordmasters were chopping down the rest of his army.

Time of Madness
15-07-2010, 22:45
As I expand the list to 2500pts I'll be adding another unit of archers, 2 chariots, 2 units of shadow warriors and 2 units of Reavers. Should give me some added protection against war machines etc.

Warmachines are easier to get rid of now that they have a combine profile and are usually T7 with 3 wounds. A unit of 10 archers can put 1 - 2 wounds on a war machine a turn. Remember 6's always wounds even with only S3.

Avatar I really like your archmage build, I may have to try it out.
Time of Madness

popisdead
15-07-2010, 22:48
I would suggest keeping the list but altering it slightly to figure out a way to get rid of stone throwers (fast).

Paraelix
15-07-2010, 23:41
Now that crew uses machines toughness and that most war machines can fire with only one crew, to get rid of them is pretty much complicated than shooting a bolt volley on it.

But it is feasible for a "normal" bolt to kill the whole thing with a single hit.

Allonairre
16-07-2010, 02:50
I would suggest keeping the list but altering it slightly to figure out a way to get rid of stone throwers (fast).

I still don't understand this statement or any other time stone throwers have been brought up.

What could he include that he hasn't to get rid of stone throwers, the way I see it we have 5 options
-Shooting, that's in the list
-Magic, that's in the list perhaps not for stonethrowers as I don't know what Lore he is going with but he has magic.
-Eagles, He has 2 of them (BTW awesome for flanking now as they get +1 when they charge and +1 for flank, no minimum US for flanking)
-Cavalry, Scouts and Flying Heroes, none of them but he has the other 3 covered so no big deal there.

The list is really good but I do think that you need to seriously think about your magic lore, they are all so good and varied. I think I would go with Life (keep you alive longer) or Shadow (to enhance your shooting) with your army.

thesheriff
16-07-2010, 07:58
The whole stone thrower thing depends on what or who you play on a regular basis. If you play dwarfs, empire and goblins all the time, then these are valid points. But other wise, you have plenty of eagles, archers and wizards to deal with those. Like you said, bows wound on 6's, so the archers should (if they're lucky) kill one a turn, or at least bring them down to last wounds.

Time of Madness
16-07-2010, 14:19
Thanks for the comments gents, I'll take a closer look at the magic lists and start trying each one out, to see what I like the best.

Anyone still like High Magic, with the +5 to cast it should be super easy to get a lot of the spells off. Drain Magic and Vaul's unmaking are still decent spells, not to mention the 5+ ward spell and the re-roll shooting misses.
Time of Madness

Liancour
16-07-2010, 18:53
Agree with you, there's some very usefull spell in High magic. Shield of saphery is a good way to protect fragile swordmasters, Drain magic is more than ever usefull, and flames of the phoenix is a very good way to handle big units ("so there's 50 golbins in this unit ? Ok, 50 wound test").