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GenerationTerrorist
14-07-2010, 20:54
Hi guys,
I'm tinkering around with my WoC Chosen setup, and am wondering....

If I equip the unit with an Additional Hand Weapon AND a Shield, am I able to use the Shield whilst advancing, but then HAVE to use the AHW when in combat?

Or am I able to alternate (obviously, between different combats) as to which I use depending on whether I want to blend weak horde-style formations or act as an anvil against cavalry, etc.

Simple reason I ask is that the rules say a model must always use a "Special Weapon" if it has one, and then lists a Halberd as an example. Does a AHW count as a similarly "Special Weapon" choice?

Cheers,
GT

Lordsaradain
14-07-2010, 21:15
I think thats how it supposed to be played (You have to use 2xHW in combat, not HW+sheild)

Frosty_TK
14-07-2010, 21:23
Yes, a second hand weapon counts as "Special Weapon" and you have to use it over the shield. You can however use it out of combat against bullets and arrows.

Balerion
15-07-2010, 01:56
Where are you guys getting this from?

My understanding is that the shield confers the +1 to armour even if the model possessing it is fighting with dual handweapons, or a two-handed weapon. Any page references to the contrary?

Or are you guys just talking about the parry save (which is clearly lost if two handweapons are used instead of one + the shield)?

TMATK
15-07-2010, 02:15
Where are you guys getting this from?

My understanding is that the shield confers the +1 to armour even if the model possessing it is fighting with dual handweapons, or a two-handed weapon. Any page references to the contrary?

Or are you guys just talking about the parry save (which is clearly lost if two handweapons are used instead of one + the shield)?

Well, p43 says you get the +1 if the model carries a shield. I assume that means its carried in a free hand, not on his back or something.

stripsteak
15-07-2010, 02:16
Where are you guys getting this from?

My understanding is that the shield confers the +1 to armour even if the model possessing it is fighting with dual handweapons, or a two-handed weapon. Any page references to the contrary?

Or are you guys just talking about the parry save (which is clearly lost if two handweapons are used instead of one + the shield)?

well with two-handed weapons no: Requires Two Hands pg 75.

The two/additional hand weapon rules don't come strait out to say you can't use a shield in combat, so you can probably argue on RAW you can AHW+S. But based on Requires Two Hands saying weapons using two hands you can't wield a shield, and additional hand weapons saying you have a weapon in both hands it looks RAI that additional hand weapons precludes using them with a shield.

Balerion
15-07-2010, 02:22
well with two-handed weapons no: Requires Two Hands pg 75.

The two/additional hand weapon rules don't come strait out to say you can't use a shield in combat, so you can probably argue on RAW you can AHW+S. But based on Requires Two Hands saying weapons using two hands you can't wield a shield, and additional hand weapons saying you have a weapon in both hands it looks RAI that additional hand weapons precludes using them with a shield.
Thanks, I hadn't read Requires Two Hands recently. That takes care of that.

I'll probably play additional hand weapons the same way, even though the RaW seems to disagree. Although anyone who has played Mordheim may remember the buckler, which IIRC allowed some sort of defensive benefit even if used with two handweapons (but not with a two-handed weapon).

I wish we knew what the RaI actually was here.

Necromancy Black
15-07-2010, 04:46
I wish we knew what the RaI actually was here.

I just wish they'd get the damn RAW right in the first place so we don't have to worry about RAI.